Alabama Senate Special Election – JONES wins
Quick Take — While this was a candidate specific loss, it certainly will be spun as part of a wave.
UPDATE:
AP and networks have called the race for Jones at about 10:25 p.m. Eastern.
Moore led most of the night, but Birmingham (Jefferson County) was late reporting, and when it did, it swung the election. Jones won Jefferson County with about 70% of the vote.
There will be hot takes galore. Here’s my “quick” take:
Moore never could recover from the allegations of sexual abuse of a 14 year old and 16 year old. While he did manage to cloud the issue, with an assist from Gloria Allred, it wasn’t enough in the end. The polling showed Moore with a pretty solid 3-4% average lead, but the polls were off in what certainly was a hard to poll special election.
While this was a candidate specific loss, it certainly will be spun as part of a wave that started in Virginia and will be a precursor of the midterms. It also means that the Trump agenda is on the ropes, with just a single vote margin next year. Tax reform needs to pass this year (since Jones will not be seated until next term), or it may not get done. You probably can forget anything else big getting done before the midterms, not with McCain and Collins and a couple of others who barely vote with Trump.
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Comments
i don’t see the folks in Alabama taking kindly to a bunch of Yankees and Hollyweird carpetbaggers telling them who to vote for.
also, they’ve known the Judge for decades, and, if he was the perv some say he is, it would have come out long ago.
It did.
He was known for it.
Noted liar and Gloria Allred comrade, ragspierre, speaks.
Hope Roy Moore has taken action against the “guaranteed” election voter fraud there will be……
which is why he lost all those previous elections over the years.
Pro Tip: the BS dream world & echo chamber you & your ilk live out your fantasy lives in are NOT reality.
Just for the sake of reality, how many elections did Dollar Bill Clinton win…???
And yet you still gave him money.
hmmm
Yes. I did give him money, which I deeply regret now. He sent me another email today.
I’ve learned a lot about Moore since I supported him, and none it is good.
So, since in your comment above, he was “known for it”, you still gave him money?
I think your telling a uh,fib.
“I’ve *learned a lot* about Moore since I supported him…”
Nothing more hilarious than this quote.
Folks, unlike Rags the liar, I lived in AL during that time period. Roy Moore was never associated with any sort of harassment problem. He was known as a Christian conservative who stuck to his principles. Lots of people disagreed with him; only Leftists called him crazy.
Steve Bannon of Harvard, Goldman-Sachs, and Hollywood, declaims outside influence in Alabama.
You cannot make this up…
Yes, Ragspierre is claiming that Harvard, Goldman-Sachs, and Hollywood are pulling for Moore by Bannon-proxy.
You cannot make this up…
Rags, when did an ivy league degree, involvement in our capitalist economy, and thin ties to Hollywood, a once-conservative strong-hold, start being boogeymen to you?
In all seriousness, this is a comment I would expect to find on Media Matters or over at the Kos Kids.
redc1c4 | December 12, 2017 at 7:49 pm
i don’t see the folks in Alabama taking kindly to a bunch of Yankees and Hollyweird carpetbaggers telling them who to vote for.
Wicked Witch Of The Web, again, you take it upon yourself to fall on me in the most cowardly way.
When you lie about me (“…screeching RAAAACIST…” when I’ve identified racists by their own posts), and act as the coward you have chosen to be, you are evil.
Screw your filthy innuendo and straw men.
And your disgusting hypocrisy.
Bannon PRETENDS to be “Joe Populist”. It’s all a damned lie, and even the way he dresses is just a costume.
You won’t drive me off these threads, with all you cowardly and nasty crap.
He lost his mind on Nov 8 2016.
Actually, it reads to me like a comment I would once have expected to find on Legal Insurrection. But that was back in the days when Obama was president, so it would probably have been directed at a Democrat.
have the dems started calling for recounts yet???
It is very late. Drudge is all over the place. Brit Hume considers this a lose lose which ever way it winds up.
Pass the pop-corn please…
I came to the conclusion it was lose-lose some time ago. Frankly, I am so tired of every election being the EPIC BATTLE FOR THE NATIONAL SOUL. The press will never be able to replay the 2016 election, which was that election. I am tired of them trying.
SPOT ON.
Witness that I’ve been attacked…without ever attacking anyone else here…by several of the most putrid liars ever to post on these threads, and trolled by an LI editor…again.
Why?
Because I stated a few truths and a view that runs counter to the Valley Of The Dulls.
What have you people become?
I’ll loan you my whittler if you want to put a new point on that stick and poke a little harder!
Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
Heh, one of my favorite clips of all time: https://youtu.be/Vl4ufIrMtXg
Love that bit!
You made me choke on my coffee! You wicked, eeeevil person, you! 😛
That’s a laugh. You have attacked and called a liar just about everyone that disagreed with you for the last two years. You side with the progs, the GOPe, and the commie left on anything Trump.
There’s your answer.
Rags,
check your computer. Your posts have a whiney sound to them. You must a loose connection.
Looks like Jones will win it to me. Small lead for Moore, but the counties still out are heavily Jones. Depends on where the votes in the those “Big City” counties are.
Where the votes are? In boxes, stashed in car trunks. Ready when needed.
Maybe. But it is an R controlled state.
The progs turned out the vote. R’s stayed home, at least compared to the progs. Or they voted for jones…
Told you democrat fraud. I called it.
I am very glad I don’t live in Alabama. I’ve detested Moore since the 10 Commandments debacle but there’s no way in hell I could vote for Jones.
Pretty much.
Re: Sanddog:
So, you didn’t like the 10 Commandments dustup?
The so-called separation of church and state is no where in the constitution. It’s another judicial usurpation dressed in legalese without any basis whatsoever.
We are dying by judicial supremacy and THAT is what Moore has been opposing.
I thought people on L.I. were more knowledgeable about our system of government.
Anyone who considers his religion superior to civil law should be in the ministry, not in government.
Seeing “Roy’s Rock” in the lobby of a court house is sort of like walking in as a defendant and having the prosecutor address the judge as “Uncle Bob.”
Re: Tom Swift:
The point isn’t that his religion is above the law.
The point is: SCOTUS and other courts have legislated from the bench. Obergefell and Roe v. Wade and Plyler v. Doe aren’t judicial decisions, but rather legislative decisions.
That’s what Roy Moore is all about: ending judicial supremacy.
Just as Jefferson warned and Lincoln agreed, it has subsumed the whole.
Really? I thought it was about a bit of idolatry, with the Commandments—written in stone, no less—on courthouse grounds … no matter what the duly constituted channels say about Constitutional interpretation.
Looks like Republican voters stayed home. If the Republicans currently in office don’t set an example and get off their duffs, Republican voters may stay home for the 2018 mid-terms.
One thing is certain, get ready for the deluge of sexual assault accusations against every R candidate.
It has been shown it works. Just claim it happened 40 years ago.
Oh, and write in some nice notes in a yearbook…
“Run a lousy candidate and you likely will lose.”
__ Never said by Hillary Clinton
But certainly responsible for demonstrating just that.
When does this particular Senate term end?
Never, or at least it will feel like that. (Seriously, I think the special term ends in 2020)
Two years is what is left of Sessions original term.
Is that in Sessions years?
Actually 3 years.
The ELECTION is in 2020, but the person will take office in 2021.
Two years.
This loss makes the Sessions AG pick even worse. Not only does the GOP lose a Senate seat, Sessions has been a YUUUGE do-nothing disappointment.
Glad to see that Jones won. Now after he’s seated, we can start an ethics investigation into the last 40 years of his life. What, no specific allegations of criminal wrong-doing? That didn’t stop the “Russian collusion” investigation from getting off the ground. (“Colluding” with anyone to win an otherwise fair and legal election is not against the law. To say nothing of the fact that it didn’t happen. But isn’t that why we needed the investigation, to make sure it didn’t happen? Same with Jones, we need to make sure he has no skeletons in his closet.)
I’m pretty sure that Sessions would wake up long enough to denounce any investigation of any Democrat as being wrong and a violation of Comity. And McConnell is overjoyed at Jones’ win.
Immediate fallout:
– The Dems will promptly throw the biggest flailing-around-like-an epilepsy-victim party where they will claim their candidate is about to be inducted as a saint and Roy is the devil incarnate, how this will lead to a 100-0 Senate for them next election, and the Trump agenda is dead-dead-dead.
– As Barry said, the Dems will promptly find a woman to press harassment or abuse charges against every male Republican Senator or Representative. Heck, maybe the female ones too.
– As Gospace said, the Republicans will have a serious Get Out The Vote problem. The first two terms of Obama were “Vote for me or you’re racist.” That worked well. Hillary’s “Vote for me or you’re sexist” did not. Now they’re going for “Vote for us or you support rapist child abusers you sicko Republican”
– The tax compromise bill will need to get voted on before Jones gets seated, or two of the flakey Senate (R) votes will certainly flip.
– An ever so quiet burial will take place of every charge against Roy as all the women fade out of the news.
– Every woman who ever said anything bad about Trump will be trotted out onto the day shows to be lauded as brave, honest, compassionate, loyal, kind, nice, angelic people with sterling reputations et al…
– Every woman who says anything nice about Trump will be called a racist, child-abuse supporting, rape enabler.
And finally. The news tomorrow will be filled with stories about how this is the end of the Trump era, it’s all over, he’s toast, he lost bigtime, until we will want to rip the radio out of the wall.
the Republicans will have a serious Get Out The Vote problem.
Well, they could offer some better candidates. Easier said than done, I know, but the Rs really are a miserable bunch—just the thing to inspire too many of us to stay home.
As the saying goes, you campaign and vote with the candidate you have, not the one you want.
Turnout might be improved if the Republicans gave their voters a reason to vote for their candidates, like maybe doing something different than what the Democrats want.
Looking at:
http://www2.alabamavotes.gov/electionNight/statewideResultsByContest.aspx?ecode=1000915
there are three things that are glaring.
1) The difference as it is now is half the write in vote. Gee I wonder who those votes went for? Time some “republicans” decided whether they want to be right or they want to win. Right now if a reincarnation of Scalia would be nominated by Trump for an open SCOTUS seat, he would probably not be confirmed. Not only would all the Dems oppose him, so would McCain and Collins.
2) The margin seems to close to call.
3) Even if the margin holds up, we are in recount territory.
( Note, I think Jones has probably got it, but the fat lady is still warming up. )
2) If
Stupid Party shoots itself in the face again.
RINO Leadership threw Moore under the bus within minutes of the first allegation. Which turned out to be the only one that mattered and also the one that was conclusively proven false.
Ever seen the D’s do this? No.
They circle the wagons and protect their own. For as long as they can. Only giving them up when they absolutely have to.
Let’s put a name on it. McConnell did this.
Stupid, nothing.
They are corrupt backstabbers.
McConnell preferred to lose the seat/vote as it makes it easier for he and the swamp to obstruct POTUS.
FWIW, Moore was so flawed that a Democrat won in Alabama.
It will be played as momentous, but it’s on Moore and will be forgotten soon. Too many other scandals and foibles to uncover.
Democrats will overplay and in the end there will be a net negative for that.
It may set up 2018 for Trump, especially if his enemies coalesce as seems likely, and he runs against them. Republicans could well win back more control because of the seats Democrats must defend. Who knows what will happen next year.
Republicans should be careful not to overreact themselves or choose candidates that turn people off.
Which candidate do you think can withstand his own party attacking him? It took McConnell a tenth of a second to decide that the allegations against Moore were true and to throw him under the bus.
Just curious, but what basis do you have for believing that McConnell was not working with Schumer and Soros [from the funding found so far] from the very beginning in planning this?
While it appears that Jones did win the election, it ain’t over yet.
The media is basing the Jones win a lead of approximately 10,000 votes with approximately 22000-25000 potential votes still out standing. Now those precincts not in by 2200hrs are in mainly Black Democrat areas, so the prediction is not without merit. However, it will be interesting to see what the actual turnout was as well as the voting numbers versus eligible population and finally, where these write-ins occurred and who garnered these votes.
If I was Moore, I would definitely demand a recount.
I’ll predict that the final vote tally will be jusssst outside whatever percentage it takes to dodge a recount.
Hair over 20K final result. I don’t know the ‘Bama rules but I doubt that is enough for an auto recount.
The R votes turned out, Moore had 650K. The progs just turned out more. That is an incredible number for a special election.
The loss is all on the GOPe, they got what they wanted, for now. Outspent 2:1, your own party actively campaigning against you, the progs digging up allegations from 40 years ago. Took it’s toll.
I, for one, never expected the progs to get 670K people to turn out, not even close.
Oh, and Moore is not the most popular Alabama candidate to start with. The R party split the vote expecting it to work for Strange, which backfired.
The GOPe sucks. That simple.
Shelby’s election, 2016:
Shelby = 1.3M
[Dem] = 750k
The Dems can turn out these numbers even in losing years. Moore lost because the GOP establishment did everything they could to depress their base.
I understand what the GOPe did. I despise the GOPe.
2016 election numbers are meaningless. This was a special election with turnout that far exceeded what anyone thought.
The Dems/media will flog this for all its worth, amounting to nothing in the bigger scheme of things. But they’ll relish the gloating for a while. They’ll pretend this means more than it really does, relentlessly as usual, but it should have the benefit of ensuring Franken is truly gone. Good riddance to the smug prick.
Trump initially supported Strange.. Enough said.
Here’s my take:
There were two margins that weren’t met. First, there were 22,000 write-in votes for a 3rd candidate. I would guess 90-99% of those came from the GOP side because there was no reason any Democrat wouldn’t vote for Jones.
Secondly, GOP turnout was around 600k. Shelby’s last election had 900k or so. Therefore, there was a hugely depressed GOP turnout. This probably had a lot to do with GOP virtue signalers like Shelby telling people to stay home.
The GOPe threw this race when they couldn’t install one of their cronies, just like they did for the VA governor’s race with Cuccinelli.
The GOPe , having gotten what it didn’t really want, the House, the Senate and the Presidency has decided to return to their favorite position of minority players by losing the Senate to the Dems. It is easier to promise what you can’t give than have to actually produce what the power gave them. The Dems know..”winning is EVERYTHING!”
Trying desperately to remember who said it, but it was “Democrats want to pass their agenda; Republicans want everyone to like them.”
Congratulations on your big win tonight, McConnell; ranks right up there with the Obamacare repeal.
Well, slow walking the confirmations of Trump’s appointees just got a lot slower. Most judicial appointments are now gone too. Long live the swamp.
Yes.
This could not have happened without that rat mcconnell’s sabotage.
Want your country back? Destroy mcconne and ryan, and fire sessions.
Christmas has come early for liberals and you can better their left flap they will be enjoying this for all its worth (and won’t forget to remind us how it was a referendum on Trump…like all those votes they lost were a referendum on Trump before they weren’t of course).
But I don’t know who is worse, the liberal media who will lap this up like a 2 bit whore or all the know it alls who will come out of the wood work to proclaim this as the beginning of a beautiful resurgence!
nearly a year into the Trump presidency and appointing Jeff Sessions as the AG looks to be the straw that will break Republican’s back – or atleast the Conservative’s back
Trump just lost the 50/50 split in the Senate when you include the R-defectors with the Swamp getting their rat into heading the DOJ
so Trump gets nothing out of that key cabinet position and now he loses a Senate seat
and now – the media circus will be emboldened to throw out these ridiculous accusations on any and every Republican that will run in future elections
because it simply did enough in this election
thanks Alabama – great job to the Republicans there in letting the media roll you over like that (fracking idiots)
what I think we are going to see in the coming months is some new Congressional committee start investigating a new case against Trump in the form of some past sexual harassment
of course it will have about as much hard evidence as the Russia “collusion” story but it won’t really matter because it is just bad publicity leading up to the 2018 mid terms
and THAT now has legs because of this little special election
Frankly I’m fine with Judge Moore losing. I wasn’t a Moore booster and I believe he would’ve been a huge albatross for the GOP. As a Catholic Conservative his demeanor was not all that appealing to me but I don’t live in Alabama and believe the folks who do have the right to elect whomever they wish.
Personally I’m more offended by the nationalizing of every election. The outside money and influence does nothing but influence folks in a manner that awards power to either the National DNC or GOP, making that candidate beholden to them and not his or her voters. I believe a winning issue for the GOP (or DNC) would be to highlight how such activities are stripping the local voice from politics. It’s funny to me that folks want to have a nearly year long conversation on the Russians and how they influenced folks with news articles, tweets and Facebook post and yet here we are watching fellow Americans go into a State, a rural, southern state and do basically the same.
Maybe the best way to drain the swamp is to allow local voters the voice they deserve to elect someone accountable to them first, then Nation second and a national party last. Like the old Army 82d Airborne ideal of Unit, Corps, God and Country.
I agree. Restrict participation and donations to constituents. This is about election integrity and preventing election fraud. People outside a district cannot vote for a candidate, why in the world can they donate to a candidate??? Groups, businesses, PACs, unions, etc., also, cannot vote in elections – why do we allow them to participate and donate?
The Right to vote belongs to individuals. We have passed laws limiting that vote to where one lives. Why do we allow anyone and any group to illegally influence our elections through donations and participation in elections?
Do we want to return the loyalty and obedience of our representatives to us, the People? Do we want to remove the corrupting influence of money from our government? Then restricting donations to only constituents is the first step.
Only individuals in a candidate’s district may vote for a candidate, so only individuals in a candidate’s district may donate to a candidate. Everything else is election fraud.
You are assuming the GOPe is interested in representing the people.
I think this is just a preview. Bottom line, we got Trump because Hildebeeste couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse. Otherwise, we would have seen NH (where obvious fraud flipped the EC and the Senate race; nothing was done to stop it) everywhere.
Bannon sure picked the wrong guy for his first “insurgency” effort. And the governor who appointed Strange goofed as well. Alabama has a couple of years, I think, to pick a viable Republican Senate candidate. Mo Brooks, anyone?
If this political hit on Moore was organized, as reported, by a Jeb Bush-associated group, why didn’t they pull the trigger during the primary? The timing makes it look like an effort to make Trump’s presidency a failure.
“Luther Strange would have won in a landslide… Just too much crazy in nerve racking times,” influential news kingpin Matt Drudge wrote on Twitter following Moore’s loss. “There IS a limit!”
“This is a brutal reminder that candidate quality matters regardless of where you are running,” Steve Law, president of the Senate Leadership Fund, a Republican super PAC, said in a statement. “Not only did Steve Bannon cost us a critical Senate seat in one of the most Republican states in the country, but he also dragged the President of the United States into his fiasco,” Law said.
T-rump–loser (twice in Alabama)
Bannon–loser
Butt-hurt Barri–loser
And etc.–losers
The Republic in this instance…lost in the primary.
People are in a big hurry to call this a defeat of Bannon and Trump. This is not accurate. This was a victory for the liberal-progressive Democrats who played every dirty political trick in the book to whittle down Moore’s lead in the polls.
Moore won the primary, largely because McConnell got involved, not Trump. It is a pretty sure bet that the state Democrat Party expected Jones to be able to take Moore. Moore, after all, was not well liked and was pretty flaky. And, it was assumed that Strange voters would not vote for Moore [which probably proved accurate]. This did not seem to be happening though. The anti-Establishment movement was keeping Moore afloat in the polls. Enter the orchestrated character assassination ploy of the LPDs, sexual harassment. This failed to have the desired effects, though. Most potential Moore voters were not fazed by the unsupported allegations against Moore [see the Frank Luntz focus group in Alabama]. So, the LPDs then unloaded the totally bogus racist ads against Moore. This galvanized the Black belt voters to come out and vote. Then you have the GOP pulling all of Moore’s endorsements, money and threatening ethics hearing should he win, based upon these unsupported 40 year old claims. And, still Jones only “won” by 1.7%, about 20,000 votes, with two of the Black Belt counties reporting late, and nearly 23,000 write-in votes for unspecified candidates.
No, a lot happened to cause Moore’s defeat. But, it was not Bannon and Trump. Look to the GOPe, the LPDs and possibly vote fraud, if you want to blame someone. Personally, was always concerned about Moore’s elect-ability because of the fact that he is a controversial figure and the estrangement [no pun intended] of the Strange and GOPe voters in Alabama. But, in a normal election, an 8-10 point lead in the polls should have been enough to provide aa win for Moore over Jones.
I’m not quite clear on your point. It seems we started with the Trump train streaking through every election and every election proving that Trump is the answer because some new silent majority who lie to pollsters (I do, btw) but secretly supports Trump (I do, and not secretly) will give every win to Trump. And now we’re at well, okay, maybe in Virginia it didn’t work out that way. Nor in Alabama.
I get the desire to pin such losses on the GOPe, but if they were the all-powerful godlets you seem to imagine them to be, what does that say about the Trump train?
The GOPe, you keep saying, is somehow managing to influence the true Trumpists–who you’ve been insisting are legion and dedicated to Trump’s MAGA vision–convincing them to abandon Trump and MAGA. That makes no sense at all. How can that be? How can McConnell, whom I don’t see as you do but with whom I disagree on pretty much everything, influence or in any way impact Trump’s true majority? If he can, how true and dedicated is that majority?
Start grappling with this now because November 2018 looms large, and “spineless, stupid, clueless McConnell flipped the true, the righteous, the triumphant Trumpists” just won’t cut it.
Good post, Fuzzy. Something else to consider. In the recent VA election, compared to the last governor election, the Republican turnout was +16%, the Dem was +32%. (Footnote: The big losers were the libertarians who went form 5% to <1% – there were few undecided or protest votes – people picked a side R or D) In part, it was the fact that Gillespie was a less than stellar candidate (I still don’t know what he stood for). The dem turnout was because the swamp voted. Not just gov’t workers in NOVA afraid of job losses, but also contractors (and their employees) and others who feed at the trough. These people are also worried about their jobs if the swamp is drained – and they voted to protect themselves. My point is – the GOP(e) got out the vote. The Dems got out more of theirs. The swamp is deeper than many estimated, at least here at ground zero. And we can’t forget to add those who rely on the gov’t for a monthly ‘benefits’ check. If they feel threatened …
So, I agree with you that the GOPe isn’t the whole problem. There is also resistence from a larger swamp than many thought existed. And, of course, you have to have candidates who are electable. That’s really the end game, winning the election. Moving the needle can be done in increments, but you gotta win to do it.
Ah, poor thing.
Unlike you, I never donated to Moore. I never liked the man as I stated much earlier.
I do not like to see any election, or anyone’s character, spoiled over bullshit allegations from 40 years ago that are impossible to disprove.
Your hysterics and support of the progs is on display. As is your duplicity. You own that.
Individuals who will feel the greatest long-term effect of Moore’s loss:
Joe Biden
Al Franken
Bill Clinton
And of course all the self-righteous members of the baying mob who supported Bill Clinton’s second term. Say Rags, did you vote for Clinton’s second term?
Say, elle, do you ever read?
I’ve NEVER voted for a Clinton. How many times do I have to answer that?
I can’t remember the last Deemocrat I voted for, but it might have been a local judge who I knew to be a good jurist. Never anyone above that level.
Just curious then, did you vote for Bush? McCain? Romney? Trump?
I’m just curious where you fall out. You snark at everyone, but what are you for?
Ok. The Election is almost over (whatever mail in, provisional, military / recounts etc).
Now I want to see resolution on the accuser front. I want to know if the yearbook entry is real or forged. I want to all of the accusations to be looked at and resolved. If the allegations are true, hold Judge Moore accountable however the law allows (Statue of Limitations, etc).
However, if this is a DEM Dirty Trick, this must be brought into the light of day. I want to know the truth wherever it leads.
i agree – Moore is a blowhard and I only wanted the (D) to lose so as to not help stop POTUS from doing His Job.
my bet is we will no longer heat about this.
It is my understanding that there is no limitation due to Corfman’s allegation occurring when she was a minor.
But it will not be brought up. No way it can be proven, and guilt must still be proven in a court. Unlike media allegations where an accusation is guilt.
Now that the “you’re a rapist but we have no evidence” mudslinging is shown to work, expect Democrats to use it in every election from now until the end of time (which hopefully isn’t far off). There will never be a Republican candidate in a general election again who isn’t a serial rapist/sexual harasser. You wouldn’t know it by looking at our modern-day Western society, but apparently the Democrat party is a bunch of Puritan prudes.
Baby trials (denying due process), witch trials (bullhorn prosecutions including trial bypress), lynching, and political congruence (“=”).
A good start would be to get the list of the Congress harasser’s unsealed.
Willing to bet that it is mostly “D”‘s.
If so that would blunt the coming campaign.
buckeyeminuteman wrote: “… from now until the end of time (which hopefully isn’t far off).”
Amen.
A reminder to those who insisted on Mr. Moore to the exclusion of other Pub candidates: Luther Strange would have been a consistent vote for Trump’s outstanding judicial nominations, immigration enforcement, tax cuts, 2nd amendment rights, and host of other good things. Mr. Moore and Mr. Strange would have been in agreement 98% of the time.
Lesson to Mr. Bannon and those who are with him: as Bill Buckley once said, you vote for the most conservative candidate electable. Mr. Moore turned out not to be electable. How does an R lose in Alabama? By being seriously flawed.
To those who complain of the WaPo hit job — yup, that’s what it was. That’s the world we live in. Dirty tricks abide and have been around for a long time. If you’re putting up a controversial candidate, it’s up to you to be sure that candidate can’t be done in by a dirty trick. Alas, Mr. Bannon didn’t consider that, and thus Mr. Moore was done in. Mr. Strange was pretty much immune, and we would have gotten 98% or so of what Mr. Moore offered.
We had the crazy witch-like lady in Delaware. The goofy congressman in Missouri. The weak lady in Nevada. And so on. We’ve given up several Senate seats that could have been filled with 85 – 98% reliable voting senators in a quest for purity. That quest has been filled with flawed candidates. That’s why they lost. Voters aren’t stupid.
Bottom line moral of the story: the more conservative and controversial your candidate, the better they need to be vetted. The other side WILL do dirty tricks. Your candidate has to be immune. You may not like that, but it’s how the political world works.
No, there is NO evidence that Strange would have supported Trump’s agenda. Strange was McConnell and the GOPe’s man all the way. And neither supports Trump’s agenda. Of course, there is no guarantee that Moore would have supported Trump’s agenda either.
The problem with alternative Republican candidates winning is the lack of support that they get from the GOPe. Trump won in spite of the efforts of the GOP. Candidates such as Moore are messages to the GOP by those members who the Republican leadership has disenfranchised. The message was clear with Trump’s election and is being made even clearer with Moore’s defeat. A significant number of Republican voters are not going to support the do-nothing Republican wing of the Uniparty any longer.
Mr. Moore didn’t get GOPe support because it was clear, early on (even before the controversy with the young women) that he was a lightning rod and a poor candidate. I’m sitting up here in Illinois and I could see it.
As to evidence concerning Mr. Strange’s willingness to work with President Trump, right now and for another couple weeks he’s been SENATOR Strange, and yes, there is evidence that he’s been supporting Mr. Trump’s agenda. He’s voted ‘aye’ for every nominee. He voted for the tax reform bill. And so on. There’s plenty of evidence; it’s called his voting record.
Please, Moore was a REPUBLICAN in a two person race. No political party throws the election for the other party, simply because their candidate is a “poor candidate”. The GOP trashed Moore because they could not control him.
what Strange has done is exactly what the GOPe [McConnell, et al} wants him to do. In case you missed it, the Senate has been, seemingly, uniformly behind Trump’s agenda, even McConnell. But, there are three GOP Senators who conveniently oppose Trump’s agenda and sink every significant piece of legislation which the Establishment does not like. This is how you make it look like the Party supports the President while still blocking his agenda. Strange will do what he has done for his entire political career, support the GOPe first.
I agree that Bannon really screwed the pooch on this one. All things considered, I’m glad the media hounds don’t have Moore as their poster child to relentlessly mock the toothless Deplorables they so love to hate.
Maybe the good news is that this election will help further drain the GOP of the luke-warm types that need to be spit out and also help rid us of the blackmailable finger wagging hypocrites on the left.
Politically, Moore’s loss is fortunate, as it removes a leftist/media piñata.
Procedurally and mathematically, it may be disastrous, since Susan Collins (a.k.a. Kate Hepburn) now controls the Trump agenda.
This was a very significant election.
It will be interesting to see the life span of the accusations against Moore, now that they have served their purpose.
To paraphrase:
They’re dead, Jim.
Oh, don’t you remember?
Roy “Jail-bait” Moore is filing law suits against them.
Each. Yep. AND the WaPo.
Any time now….
Pathetic.
A lawsuit is never going to change the election.
None of these women currently have anything worth spending millions in lawsuits over.
Why doesn’t Corfman file charges. She was underage, no statute of limitations for that case.
We all know why.
Except you. You’ll believe anything a prog says. And you’ll even dream up yearbooks are issued twice a year.
rags,
If I were a one dimensional thinker, focusing solely on Moore’s actions would make sense. Unfortunately for that argument, the real issue here is not Moore’s behavior. The question all of us should be asking, as conservatives and citizens, goes beyond a local election to whether we are going to have (allow) a system where unproven allegations are used to derail a candidacy. The Duke rape and UVA rape accusations were credible – until they weren’t.
Voters are fully justified in demanding proof before accepting the validity of an accusation, and in rejecting accusations which have not been proven true. Adequate vetting of a candidate is important, but is literally impossible to achieve in cases of false accusations.
Because the dems were able to control the discussion, substantive issues important to the voters of AL were not discussed in the campaign. That it happened is disturbing. More disturbing is the ease with which some on our side bought into it.
Focusing solely on Moore’s alleged actions ignored many other moral issues involved. While we don’t know if he is guilty as charged or not, we do know some things that are worthy of discussion:
* – a large segment of the voters in AL have been effectively disenfranchised by unproven allegations. That’s a moral question that has been ignored.
* – As conservatives, what is the morality of electing an abortion supporter? How does his known behavior compare to the unproven allegations against Moore?
* – As conservatives, do Moore’s alleged crimes justify electing an anti 2nd Amendment senator? Why or why not?
* – As conservatives, do Moore’s alleged crimes justify electing a socialist swamp dweller? Why or why not?
* – If we want to stop the use of this tactic, how does allowing it to succeed do that?
* – If Moore had been elected, would the senate have been justified in refusing to seat him? Why or why not?
I’m sure there are many other moral issues that can be raised, and I’m sure they too will be ignored.
I don’t know if Moore is guilty or not. I know I have reasonable doubts about his accusers veracity, and (fewer) about his. I do know that a society cannot survive when unproven allegations are used to destroy both reputations and the electoral process. As a lawyer, you should be aware of the principle that it’s better that 100 guilty go free to prevent a process where the innocent go to jail. I would say that is the case here. It’s better that a scoundrel be elected than we have a system which allows false or unproven accusations to determine the outcome. And we will have that system if we don’t demand proof beyond merely credible accusations. Especially when the charges are 40 years old.
So, focus on Moore’s law suit if that’s the only part of the whole picture your mind can handle.
My point spoke to your bullshit about the accusers (who you obviously impute evil motives to, despite your lies about not knowing Moore’s guilt), and how long their accusations would remain.
Moore has the prime…and despite the idiot Butt-hurt Barri’s legal opinion…the ONLY legal venue to “vet” the accusations.
Beyond that, you’re just doing one of your gassy expositions of your own bullshit.
The good people of Alabama DID speak. They used their discernment, and…by their actions…voted NOT-Moore.
Now the process has been informed of a very important fact; in American politics, some of us retain a gag reflex. Alabama will be the better for their demonstration.
“Idiot” legal opinions…
Can’t refute it can you, Mr. Attorney?
Tell us some moore lies.
There is a reason Corfman made no charges.
There is a reason Nelson will not submit the yearbook for analysis.
There is a reason you will swallow lies and promote them adding your own smelly bullshit: like yearbooks that come out twice per year.
You FOS. Always have been.
rags rote:
My point spoke to your bullshit about the accusers (who you obviously impute evil motives to, despite your lies about not knowing Moore’s guilt), and how long their accusations would remain.
The lie here is you saying and acting as thought you DO know Moore’s guilty, when, based on current evidence, you cannot know. Since I don’t claim to know, I can’t impute motives to either party. You, OTOH, impute evil motives to Moore and good motives to the accusers: something which can only be justified if you know the truth of the accusations.
rags rote:
Moore has the prime…and despite the idiot Butt-hurt Barri’s legal opinion…the ONLY legal venue to “vet” the accusations.
1- My only statement re vetting was about vetting candidates. (“Adequate vetting of a candidate is important, but is literally impossible to achieve in cases of false accusations.”) It’s a cheap rhetorical trick on your part to rewrite that as though I was discussing ‘vetting accusations’.
2- The courtroom is not designed to search for truth. Truth is a tool in the courts, not a goal. Courts are designed to test compliance with the king’s laws. When you claim that courts find the truth, you are claiming that the salem witches were, in fact, witches.
3- In court, accusations must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Having set the court as your test arena, you violate that standard, and demand that we force the accused to prove his innocence.
rags rote:
Beyond that, you’re just doing one of your gassy expositions of your own bullshit.
That you consider these questions to be ‘gassy expositions’ tells us a great deal about your commitment to truth, conservativism and good government:
* – As conservatives, what is the morality of electing an abortion supporter? How does his known behavior compare to the unproven allegations against Moore?
* – As conservatives, do Moore’s alleged crimes justify electing an anti 2nd Amendment senator? Why or why not?
* – As conservatives, do Moore’s alleged crimes justify electing a socialist swamp dweller? Why or why not?
* – If we want to stop the use of this tactic, how does allowing it to succeed do that?
* – If Moore had been elected, would the senate have been justified in refusing to seat him? Why or why not?
rags rote:
The good people of Alabama DID speak. They used their discernment, and…by their actions…voted NOT-Moore.
Yes, they spoke, but they were disenfranchised. Elections choose our political representatives based on how closely their political views align with ours. By all available evidence, absent the accusations against Moore, he was the candidate whose views most closely aligned with the majority of voters. He lost, not because he was out of step politically, but because 20% of those who would have normally voted for him didn’t. The non political issue of his morality was elevated above the purpose of the election. Doing so disenfranchised the majority of voters, including those who voted against him, who would have normally have elected Moore. They will now be represented by someone who doesn’t share their political values.
rags rote:
Now the process has been informed of a very important fact; in American politics, some of us retain a gag reflex. Alabama will be the better for their demonstration.
What a great description. An involuntary (no thought required) reaction – like a knee jerk. Now that it’s been proven successful, we are likely to see more last minute accusations used as a tool to win otherwise lost elections – so much better for the people of AL and the US [/sarcasm]. Which was the issue I raised in my post. Your reply only proved that my description of you as a one dimensional thinker was correct.
What an AMAZING pile of steaming bullshit…!!!
You’ve actually exceeded your usual nonsense here.
“Character counts”.
Still. People make decisions on their perceptions. They looked at Ol’ Jail-bait and didn’t want him “around, anyhow”.
Now he’s free to clear himself with all those law suits.
Heh…!!!
Alabama got what they wanted, a gun grabbing, job killing, open borders, abortionist.
Why they wanted that I have no idea.
This election is starting to look dirty, as in “election fraud” dirty. The Alabama supreme court nullified an order requiring all digital records of the election be preserved. Somebody is hiding something. Such as, for example, how Montgomery County, the swing vote in the election and a majority black district, had better turnout for white Doug Jones than it did for Obama. Also, since Moore wants a recount, what better way to prevent its success than destroy ballot records?
The original order, in part: “All counties employing digital ballot scanners in the Dec. 12, 2017 election are hereby ordered to set their voting machines to save all processed images in order to preserve all digital ballot images”
According to AL.com: “at 4:32 p.m. Monday, attorneys for Alabama Secretary of State John Merrill and Ed Packard, the state administrator of elections, filed an ’emergency motion to stay’ that order, which the state Supreme Court granted minutes after Merrill and Packard’s motion was filed … A full hearing for the case is set for December 21, but the state has a green light to continue destroying its digital voting records until that time.”
And it begins.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/12/13/state-representative-accused-of-molestation-commits-suicide/
What’s especially horrible is that the police investigated and found there was no basis for charges. That wasn’t enough for the lynch mob.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/13/kentucky-state-rep-dan-johnson-commits-suicide-after-sexual-assault-accusations-emerge-officials-say.html
“The woman said she reported the incident but Louisville police closed the case without charges.
Johnson told reporters on Tuesday that the accusations were “totally false.” But leaders of the state Republican and Democratic parties had called for the representative to resign.”
Everybody on this blog who made accusations = guilt by trashing Moore can congratulate themselves.
The woman reported the assault to the Louisville Metro Police Department within months of the episode, but no charges were filed. However, her account was corroborated by family members, by her therapist’s notes from the first half of 2013 and by Facebook messages she exchanged with Mr. Johnson, the Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting wrote.
The #MeToo Moment
Mr. Johnson, 57, vehemently denied the report, saying at a news conference on Tuesday: “This allegation concerning this lady, this young girl, absolutely has no merit. These are unfounded accusations, totally.” He said he would not resign.
Continue reading the main story
Related Coverage
But at 4:59 p.m. on Wednesday, he wrote a rambling Facebook post that hinted at suicide.
snip
Mr. Johnson had been in the House for less than a year after defeating a Democratic incumbent in the 2016 election. During the campaign, officials in his own party had criticized him for inflammatory Facebook posts, including one that depicted Barack and Michelle Obama as apes, and another that read: “Allah sucks. Mohammed sucks. Islam sucks. Any of you Hadji’s have an issue with me saying this, PM me and I’ll gladly give you my address. You can come visit me, where I promise I will KILL YOU in my front yard!!”***
Yep. TOTS well-anchored and rational innocent victim and strong Christian.
Is suicide a Christian value thingy…???