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Las Vegas police now say critical 6-minute shooting gap doesn’t exist

Las Vegas police now say critical 6-minute shooting gap doesn’t exist

Police and hotel still don’t agree on some details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoxUUrWqz3E

I realize that in the heat of a shooting, particularly a mass shooting, it may take some time for a precise timeline to develop.

But it didn’t take very long for the Las Vegas police to release a precise timeline. The initial timeline was that Stephen Paddock’s shooting stopped when, approximately 6 minutes after he started, he was interrupted by a security guard from the Mandalay Bay hotel. Paddock then turned his fire into the hallway, firing some 200 bullets, and after that the shooting stopped as police arrived. That was Version No. 1.

 

Some days later, the Las Vegas police backed away from that timeline, and stated that the security guard actually arrived 6 minutes before Paddock started shooting into the crowd 32 stories below him. That raised a number of question, including why no one called 911 after what must have been a loud volley of shots in a hotel hallway. That was Version No. 2.

But now that is disputed, in Version No. 3. WaPo reports:

Las Vegas police said Friday that the gunman who opened fire on a country music festival far below his hotel suite did not shoot a security guard six minutes before that rampage, contradicting a timeline they had offered earlier this week….

The confusion began Monday when police said that the gunman fired at the hotel security guard, Jesus Campos, six minutes before the mass shooting began, not during the massacre as they had said. Lombardo also said police had hunted for the source of the gunfire and that officers responding to the gunman’s floor were unaware that a guard was shot until they arrived there, at which point the shooting rampage had ended.

MGM Resorts pushed back on this account, first saying Tuesday that there were unspecified inaccuracies and then, on Thursday, releasing a statement directly contradicting parts of what the police had said….

Lombardo had said Monday that Campos, the guard, was shot at 9:59 p.m. and that the mass shooting began at 10:05 p.m. This six-minute gap relayed by Lombardo left uncertain whether there was any lag in alerting police to the source of the gunfire during critical moments. Police said officers arrived on the 32nd floor at 10:17 p.m., two minutes after Paddock had stopped firing.

MGM, though, said it was “confident” that the 9:59 p.m. time was inaccurate and “was derived from a Mandalay Bay report manually created after the fact without the benefit of information we now have.” The company also disputed the suggestion of a lag, saying the shooting rampage began within a minute of Campos reporting his injury on the 32nd floor.

On Friday, Lombardo effectively agreed with the company’s statement, though he argued that the 9:59 p.m. time he had offered four days earlier “wasn’t inaccurate when I provided it.” Lombardo said he was told this time had been written by someone in a security log.

Upon investigation, Lombardo said, police learned that Campos first encountered a barricaded door on the 32nd floor at 9:59 p.m. The guard was eventually fired upon by Paddock “in close proximity to” 10:05 p.m., when the mass shooting began, Lombardo continued.

Clear, right?

Not so fast, the police and hotel still have disagreement over important details, such as when police arrived relative to Paddock’s shooting at the crowd:

An enormous, important discrepancy has emerged over what happened during the Las Vegas massacre: When did police arrive on the 32nd floor where Stephen Paddock was firing his deadly fusillade onto concertgoers below?

Las Vegas police say they didn’t get to the floor until after the shooting was over. But MGM Resorts International, the owner of Mandalay Bay, says police officers were there shortly after the shooting began, responding to a report of a security guard being shot. The discrepancy could raise questions about whether police might have taken steps to intervene while Paddock was launching his devastating 10-minute onslaught….

… on Thursday, in response to inquiries about when Mandalay Bay notified police of the Campos shooting, MGM Resorts issued a statement that was unequivocal: Las Vegas police officers accompanied Mandalay Bay security to the Campos shooting and “immediately responded.” MGM said that “Metro officers were together with armed Mandalay Bay security officers in the building when Campos first reported that shots were fired over the radio. These Metro officers and armed Mandalay Bay security officers immediately responded to the 32nd floor.” The statement says MGM believes Paddock began firing out the window of his room within 40 seconds of Campos reporting his shooting, and Lombardo said Friday, “I agree with the statement.”

These discrepancies on basic facts are feeding conspiracy theories.

As to Paddock’s motive, still nothing from the investigation.

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Comments

OK the only real question at this point is whether its the casino or the police attempting to cover something up. Because there’s just way too much story changing going on here.

My money is on the casino, personally.

yeah, sure…. pull the other one: it’s got bells on it!

and “hero” Campos has apparently disappeared & his family “gagged”.

this whole mess has stunk to high heaven since the beginning… and it’s not getting better.

regulus arcturus | October 13, 2017 at 8:41 pm

I watched the press conference today, and the sheriff came off as a completely different person, totally on the defensive. Something changed.

Even understanding that details can and do change in these types of investigations, there are still so many things which don’t line up.

Where are the videos, including the livestream Paddock supposedly had ready to go?

What was found in the room? Has that list been made public?

Who broke into Paddock’s Reno, NV property, and why was that not secured? Was anything taken?

Why did the security guard suddenly cancel interviews yesterday, and disappear?

Why is Paddock’s profile still so “black-holish”? How is it possible for someone in this day and age to have such a completely invisible profile, even as a loner?

The last question has a few answers, and the most likely one is some type of covert association with government ops, and that’s where we seem to be headed.

    “Why is Paddock’s profile still so “black-holish”? How is it possible for someone in this day and age to have such a completely invisible profile, even as a loner?”

    It’s easier than you think, especially for one who exists in a cash only underworld of nefarious dealings for his entire life.

    As far as an electronic footprint – you’d be amazed how many people still don’t own a computer and don’t own a smartphone. Combine that with only dealing in cash for anything you buy, and you’re off the grid.

      Not completely disagreeing with you, but in this day and age you can be off the grid, do everything possible to stay out of socials, and yet it is still practically impossible to stay out of other people’s photos to the degree that Paddock seems to have done.

      Not completely disagreeing with you, but in this day and age you can be off the grid, do everything possible to stay out of socials, and yet it is still practically impossible to stay out of other people’s photos to the degree that Paddock seems to have done.

        elle in reply to elle. | October 16, 2017 at 10:18 pm

        In fact, I think this highlights why this site is on my short list. When I read the post “Nowhere Man”, I agreed with the assessment, but now I realize that the lack of anything on Paddock is even more relevant than I had initially realized. That level of intuition and clarity is why I stop by here. Feel the same way about his “dread” comments…but fortunately for me, denial is a river…

assemblerhead | October 13, 2017 at 9:11 pm

It is blindingly obvious the FBI is covering up something. The question is “what”.

Is it a “Fast & Furious v2.0”?
An intentional / manufactured “crisis” for pushing “more gun control”?
Arms shipments to ISIS, inside the borders of the USA, made by the FBI?
Or “Deep State” trying to backstab / derail Trump?

If they can’t show that police were outside the room before the shooting stopped, they’ll need other evidence to support the claim that Paddock was the shooter, and not just another victim.

    So we have the hotel trying to show that they are blameless and reacted at once to the threat, the police trying to show they did not cower in the stairwell while the shooting was going on, and the FBI dancing over the scene in iron boots like they normally do.

    I’m just going to stand back and watch for a week or two… or twelve until the lies and truths get straightened up.

      Tom Servo in reply to georgfelis. | October 14, 2017 at 10:13 am

      LOL – I think you’ve got the most accurate insight into what’s going on with this investigation yet!

      I think they’re something hinky about security guard Campos and his newfound unwillingness to talk, but it may just be that Mandalay Bay’s corporate lawyers have realized how much trouble they’re going to be in when people learn how much of their staff is illegal.

      Rick the Curmudgeon in reply to georgfelis. | October 14, 2017 at 1:40 pm

      You might want to pack a lunch; this is beginning to look like the beginnings of the second Kennedy Assassination hobby cult.

Look at the photo of him dead in the room after 1k worth of shots. Where is the brass? the floor should be covered in brass.

Well, I’ll also bet you dollars to donuts that some enterprising reporter has discovered that Paddock is a registered Democrat, as well.

Were he a Republican, it would be all over the front page.

The first of the lawsuits against the Mandalay Bay Hotel/MGM Resorts have started trickling in.

Whatever narratives their legal department is now advising them to put out there surely have to be viewed through that prism.

Open source all the security video/audio

regulus arcturus | October 13, 2017 at 11:31 pm

More ballistics and firearms questions arising from the defensive sheriff press conference –

We now have a timeline for the shooting.

The federal classification of full auto is 400 rounds/minute? Somewhere around there?

The bump stock in question avoids that metric deliberately.

From this information, and the expended round casings in the room, you can make a determination of how many shooters there were.

Paul In Sweden | October 13, 2017 at 11:35 pm

Walk through your home and glance at the time on each clock, each appliance, each time peace, and note the variation and then remember if you have ever been responsible for logging entries in the workplace if the accuracy of your handwritten notation is just as accurate as if you punched a time slip which as a matter of fact is off by time also. Security cameras work on one clock, street cameras work on another clock and if we look at bigger pictures satellite transmissions cause further delays so when scientific calculations certain adjustments need to be made.

Too often we find that after the headlines die down the lone gunman’s accomplices are arrested and financial backers are sought. This case, I do not know but I am not willing to pull at straws, yet, but mind that word Yet 😉

    regulus arcturus in reply to Paul In Sweden. | October 13, 2017 at 11:38 pm

    Al law enforcement cameras and other clocks and cellphones (if not overridden) are synched to NIST in Colorado.

    That’s the beauty of modern technology.

    All Vegas Casinos are sure as fuck synched to this, for this very reason.

    I believe what Steve Wynn says much more than the FBI Agent-in-Charge.

So, let us assume that the timelines with Campos being fired upon from Paddock’s room just before shots were fired on the crowd is true, even if the exact time is not.

Campos and Shuck [the maintenance man]come under fire for several seconds, to a minute. Then they withdraw down the corridor to the elevator area to wait for police to arrive. We can probably assume that they hid out of sight of the doors to Paddock’s suite, in case the fire through the door resumed. The firing stops after ~10 minutes. The police arrive 2-3 minutes later and take up a position to observe the suite doors as well as the door to the adjoining room. If Campos and Schuck did not have the doors under observation, it is possible that a person, or persons, could have slipped out and gone up the stairway which was right beside the doors to the suite during the 2-3 minutes between the cessation of fire and the arrival of police. We have heard that the stairwell door was jammed, but it is not clear if the door was still jammed after the police made entry into the suite.

The biggest question, after motive, is why did Paddock stop firing, when he had a large amount of ammunition remaining and operable weapons? Sheriff Lombardo has stated repeatedly that it appears that Paddock intended to flee. However, how far would Paddock get with the rooms being linked to him, through his girlfriend, and weapons which he had purchased from retail sources and left at the scene? And, yet Lombardo seemed to be convinced that the occupant of the suite intended to flee. It would not be difficult for a knowledgeable person to estimate that police would probably respond in approximately 10 minutes after the shooting began and plan accordingly.

This is why the “Campos arrival caused Paddock to panic and he ceased his attack on the crowd and killed himself” theory was so appealing. It explained the seeming anomaly of why the shooting stopped when it did. That theory is no obsolete and we are back to an unknown reason for the cessation of the attack.

Then you have Paddock’s lifestyle. He had not worked since the late 1980s. His sources of income were reportedly a property refurbishing business [which his brother said they ran for a while] real estate sales [though we have heard from no real estate professionals who seemed to know Paddock] and gambling. Now, as a former IRS agent, Paddock would have been aware of how easy it is to hide a source of income, even a rather substantial one, by claiming significant gambling winnings, especially those made on foreign flagged cruise ships which usually do not report winnings to the US IRS. His houses were more safe house than home. He had no friends, no close acquaintances and his significant other was a high-end bar girl. He had no known physical or mental problems. He apparently did not drink alcohol, nor is there any indication of drug use. He took frequent trips outside the US, usually to destinations not widely traveled by US citizens except for business. Yet we have no report that he had any business at all.

Finally we have his choice of weaponry. There was absolutely no reason for the size of the arsenal in his rooms. Four or five rifles and a couple of pistols and 2000 rounds, at most, would have been overkill. He left the components for 50# of Tannerite in his car. In order to make it useful, he would have had to carry it to his room and mix it. He did not. Then there is the alleged suicide wound. The wound has been reported, exclusively, as a gunshot wound to the face. Usually, a person will shoot themselves through the roof of the mount by placing the barrel of a pistol into the open mouth or under the chin. Neither location would usually be referred to as the face. A shot through the temple area might also be used. But, this wound usually be referred to as a head wound, not a facial wound. A person might shoot themselves through the eye [the orbit] which might be referred to as shooting oneself in the face. But, it is highly unusual for a person to choose that location. And, why was there no note, manifesto, or any apparent attempt to communicate the reason for this act. Paddock could have been mentally ill, but there is no evidence of that.

The whole thing makes no sense, if looked at as a lone, crazed gunman. And, if Campos was the first victim, instead of the last, then there is no apparent reason for Paddock to stop and kill himself when he allegedly did.

In other words, we are at the same point we were at at midnight on the night the shooting took place.

    regulus arcturus in reply to Mac45. | October 13, 2017 at 11:48 pm

    No human real person who frequents Vegas has Paddock’s profile.

    Nobody.

    Unless he is government covert ops.

    All casinos, especially the high rollers and frequent comps, have extensive profiles.

    Who checks in, who checks out and when, how many guests, etc.

    This guy had a much larger casino profil than they are revealing if he is who they said he is, and if not, the fact that this guy was a frequent gambler and high-roller who escaped their notice is virtually impossible.

    This is an op gone wrong. Probably a black government op, and now FBI is fucked, more.

    regulus arcturus in reply to Mac45. | October 13, 2017 at 11:58 pm

    N.b.: I was comp’d at Mandalay once, and they knew literally everything about us coming in.

    Flew up private plane, security cleared at McCarran across the street via the private terminal, etc.

    There’s so much more here than they are revealing.

    cucho in reply to Mac45. | October 14, 2017 at 12:36 pm

    “So, let us assume that the timelines with Campos being fired upon from Paddock’s room just before shots were fired on the crowd is true, even if the exact time is not.”

    We don’t need to assume that. The composite video of the timeline of the entire shooting can be found online (no conspiracy theoery cr.ap). Look for “Entire Vegas Shooting Continuous Synced from Different Angles rendered at 4k”.

    In the video, we clearly hear several single shots shortly before the massacre begins. Those single shots were mostly likely the ones Paddock used for calibrating his weapons and for the shooting the “guard”.

      Mac45 in reply to cucho. | October 14, 2017 at 2:28 pm

      First of all, a large number of rounds were fired through the door and down the hallway at the guard. Not single shots. Also, the sharp, close snapping sounds, heard before the shooter went to rock and roll, are most likely single shot bullets impacting near the recorder. This would be useful for someone who was doing a quick field check to determine how close the point of aim was to the actual point of impact for a particular weapon. At that distance and under those lighting conditions, you would almost have to target individual people, and watch to see who fell down. Now, this is something s shooter handling a known weapon, which he had sighted in himself, would not have to do, nor is likely to do. And, novice shooters are the worst in this regard. They just pick up a weapon and open fire, assuming the bullets will hit what they aim at. This is a practice that would be most likely used by an experienced or expert shooter, which Paddock was not, handling an unknown weapon.

      This video is pretty good to illustrate the timing on the exterior shots. There is a soft, repetitive sound at the very beginning which, while most likely either an anomalous sound on the recording or nearby machinery, could be rapid AR-15 fire from inside the closed hotel, while the windows were still intact. It may be the point where the shooter opened fire on Campos and Shuck. The single “shots” occur at 3:12 in the video.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCrNsC0mTBg

If only the Sheriff had one more star on his collar, this would have been solved in 24 hours. Who would pay any attention to a Sheriff with only 4 stars?

Moar stars solves crime.

On January 1, 2014, there was an explosion & fire in Minneapolis that the MFD walked away from & gave to the ATF. Silence ever since. I keep thinking about TWA flight 800, and the death of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown where the ALL copies of the photos of the bullet in the head disappeared at the same time, and other “investigations” where facts are simply dismissed or erased because they do not fit the desired narrative or if all ends in silence.

An investigation converges as one gets closer to the truth. This one appears to continue to diverge, at least in public.

Perhaps the Sheriff wants to tell the truth but may have a family. The swamp might point out to the Sheriff how many mysterious deaths occur when one exposes certain truths. Look around the Clintons.

The Sheriff just might be bad at lying but he may be trying to protect his family. The FBI agents may even be in the same corner. I suspect the Sheriff released early facts to make the later coverup more difficult. There is a reason for the change in behavior of the Sheriff. I smell the stink of the swamp and this is not good.

    Milhouse in reply to TX-rifraph. | October 15, 2017 at 2:58 am

    Wow. I think the technical term for you is “cuckoo in the head”.

    1. The MFD did not “walk away” from the Mpls explosion, let alone hand it to the ATF, and there has been no silence. The investigation was conducted by the MPD, who ruled out foul play, and the state fire marshal, who said either (1) a guest tried to turn on a gas heater that wasn’t working, (2) a natural gas leak somewhere else met an ignition source in the building, or (3) the freezing sewer piping below a toilet trap cracked and released methane gas.

    2. There is absolutely no mystery about TWA 800. The reconstruction pinned the cause of the explosion down absolutely.

    3. There was no bullet hole. The same pattern appeared on every X-ray taken with that cartridge, no matter what of.

Bucky Barkingham | October 14, 2017 at 7:45 am

Some random thoughts:

Perhaps Jesus Campos has signed an exclusive deal with some media outlet for his story which is why he and family have gone silent.

As Anne Coulter has pointed out no gambler makes money playing video poker. She posits that the video poker gambit was actually a money laundering operation. So the question is where did the killer get the money he was laundering? Was he acting for someone else? Was the casino complicit?

Lack of detailed profile of the killer could mean false identify.

While everyone is focused on the time line other things are not being talked about.

    I know somebody (not a professional gambler) who made many thousands of dollars on slots in the high roller room on multiple occasions. It can be done.

      Tom Servo in reply to DanJ1. | October 14, 2017 at 10:16 am

      People keep ignoring that Paddock owned two small planes. It’s pretty easy for a guy with a small plane, who isn’t averse to making low level flights across the border, to make a very nice cash income with only a few flights per year.

Where I live we had a wildfire once. I called it in to 911 and noted the time. I sat on the porch of my house and waited for the firefighters to show up, and noted the time when the first truck passed by. It was 52 minutes later. In the interim, I called 911 several more times asking, “Where the hell are they?” By the time they actually showed up, the fire had gotten a lot bigger and they had to call in air tankers to extinguish it. The story make the local newspaper, but the firefighters swore that they were on-site within ten minutes. Come to find out, a few of them actually did show up in a timely manner at the entrance to our community, but then waited 42 minutes to start fighting the fire until the rest of the crew got there. Also, they didn’t have some equipment that they needed which they had to have sent from another town.

The purpose of this story is to possibly explain the discrepancies in the “show up” times for the police. It’s likely that some of them showed up right away and then had to wait for “something” (equipment? permission?) before going in.

What is so frustrating is that it would be so easy to answer these questions – just ask the first responders themselves. But of course the people who actually know what went on are forbidden to talk to the press and even if they could, the press is too stupid to ask the right questions.

I wonder what kind of weapon was used to shoot the guard? If it was a machine gun and he fired 200 rounds at him, how did he only suffer a leg room? If it was a pistol then what’s with the 200 rounds fired through the door?

Police and armed security are always in the building and would have responded immediately to the 32 floor, where they would have found the room immediately due to the 200 holes in it as well as the report from the shot guard. Why do they still say that it took time to locate the room with the shooter?

And then there’s the video camera outside the room surveying the activity in the hallway. The shooter would have seen anybody approaching the door from 200 feet away (it’s a long straight hallway) since he secured the stairwell entrance next to his room. Why don’t they just admit that the police couldn’t approach because he had already made it clear that if the police came down the hall guns blazing they would meet another 200 shot volley?

As for the gun casings, he had multiple rooms. He may have killed himself in a different room or area than where he was firing through the window. This wasn’t Motel 6.

Why did he stop after 10 minutes? He was probably burned out. The heat and the kick from the guns had to be intense as well as the burning casings flying everywhere. The jamming of the weapons was likely frustrating. He was probably going through bullets quicker than anticipated.

He could have secured the room by positioning himself in line with the door with a view of the video camera, rested, and then resumed but I think the soft targets were drying up. His last shots may have been at the jet fuel. I wonder if he hadn’t positioned some of the bombs and he wasn’t able to hit them from that distance. There was calculations on a note pad, supposedly, that he was using to try to hit them. Online videos show people using gunfire to blow up those kinds of explosives.That might have been why he had a rifle with a bi-pod and scope. The Feds never would admit that somebody got that close to those tanks so we will never know.

Last for now, why did it take so long for the police to breach the room? The reason is in the previous points. They would have had to wait for SWAT to arrive and provide cover as they move down the hallway with bullet proof shields. They knew it was automatic weaponry so they would have needed specialized shields. They would have had to go room by room shuttling people from the probably 100 rooms in line of fire in the hallway until they got to his room. Since the firing stopped prior to SWAT’s arrival they could be methodically. Their approach would have hastened if the shooting had re-started.

So the only question left in my mind is why can’t they get the timeline right? I don’t buy into the conspiracies, but I do think they know what the shooter’s agenda was and it’s inconvenient for somebody. My guess is that since it isn’t alt-right (if it was it would be all over the media weeks ago) it must be Leftist and the timeline might reveal it. The security guard may have overheard him talking to himself or somebody on the phone and that’s why he’s been silenced for now.

Law enforcement knows all of this but thy’re trying to figure out how to spin the story.

Going to be interesting. Ignoring the conspiracy theories, the 6 minute gap may be interesting from a legal point of view. Big pockets, of course, belong to MGM. Would things have been different if security had promptly notified the police of the shots fired, and, really, where (police apparently mistakenly went one floor down). Hotel appears to have had this information well before the police did. Maybe (911 calls should confirm that), 200 rounds fired should have resulted in an immediate 911 call, and a SWAT response – and to the correct floor and room.

Maybe, just maybe, the police might have prevented some deaths if they had had the fact that a large number of shots had been fired from a specific room on a specific floor as soon as hotel security knew that information. Maybe a lot of deaths. But, from a legal point of view – so what? If I remember my torts correctly, the requirement for negligence are: (legal) duty; breach; proximate cause; and damages. Duty and proximate cause are problematic. What legal duty did the hotel owe to the concert goers? And it is going to be a stretch showing that the hotel’s dilatory reporting of the shooting at the hotel employees was a proximate cause of the concertgoers being shot, esp since standard police policy seems to be to control the perimeter, etc, before advancing on the shooter – taking over an hour in this case. Indeed, it could be argued that SWAT would still have taken over an hour to enter the room, even if the 6 minute delay hadn’t occurred (assuming that it had).

I think I could try to worry about the timelines more if the security guard did not look just like the San Bernadino terrorist and The pictures of Paddack with his girlfriend did not look just like Gene Rosen of Sandy Hook fame.
Of course the one I Like is the guy who takes three high power rounds in the chest and the next day his friend is visiting him in the hospital , he is not hooked up to one monitor ,one IV and has a single bandage that looks like Pancho Villa’s bandalier.

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