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Survey: NFL Brand severely damaged by “take a knee” protests

Survey: NFL Brand severely damaged by “take a knee” protests

“Taking a Knee” has been a kick to the gut of the NFL brand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obYxqlaCIX0

There are many different ways to poll the current controversy over NFL players protesting the National Anthem and flag on the sideline by kneeling down.

One way to poll is whether the players “have a right” to protest. It’s not at all inconsistent to take the position that they have “a right” to protest but also to criticize and object to the protests.

Another way to poll is to make Trump the issue. If you do that, and frame the question as to whether Trump’s comments were appropriate, you are guaranteed at least half the population will poll against Trump.

There also likely are regional differences, with the places where football is more part of the broader culture reacting more negatively. A poll in Louisiana found that a majority of people want the protesting players fired or disciplined:

A new poll has found that more than half of Louisiana voters surveyed think some form of punishment should befall NFL players who protest during the national anthem.

Of the 525 registered voters surveyed in a poll sponsored by the University of New Orleans, 30.2 percent said players should be fired, while an additional 26.6 percent said they should be fined. The remaining 43.2 percent answered that neither of those things should happen.

A more important measure, to me, is the impact on the NFL brand. Perception of a brand is more lasting, and harder to restore, than an opinion on a particular controversy. (If you want to read about Legal Insurrection’s brand, see our post “Deep Values” Profile of core Legal Insurrection readers).

As I’ve written, for me that NFL brand no longer holds the emotional attachment it once did, Dear NFL: I’m not “boycotting” you. I just don’t care anymore, about you:

I’m officially over the Cowboys, the Patriots and the NFL. You were once one of the loves of my life. But now we’re breaking up, and it’s you, not me.

I’m not “boycotting” you. I just don’t care anymore.

You tried to make me care, but now I don’t care at all, about you.

It appears I might be onto something. Morning Consult does polling, but it also does brand tracking for companies.

Morning Consult has been tracking the NFL brand. In an email this morning, Morning Consult publicly released it’s survey data measuring the impact of the controversy on the NFL brand. There is no other way to slice the data – the NFL brand has dropped precipitously since the “take a knee” controversy.

Here are some of the findings:

NFL’s Brand Favorability Drops To Lowest Point Since Morning Consult Started Tracking: The NFL’s net favorability has dropped from 30% on September 21 to 17% on September 28.

NFL Takes Huge Hit Among Trump Supporters:

On September 21, 25% of Trump supporters said they had a very favorable view of the NFL and 11% had a very unfavorable view.

As of Sept 28, those numbers have dramatically changed with 33% of Trump supporters say they have a very unfavorable view of the NFL and 16% report having a very favorable view. You can see the trend lines here:

Americans Concerned About League’s Impact on Community

Today, 35% of Americans believe the NFL makes a good impact in their community. That’s down 10 points since September 13.

When hometown fans are booing the Patriots for “taking a knee,” you know it’s bad.

It’s too early to tell if this brand damage will be long-term, or something that will recover quickly.
Part of that might depend on where the protests go from here. To me, at least, the “locking of arms” by the Packers and Bears last night only exacerbated the problem. The crowd reacted by chanting “U.S.A., U.S.A.”

I don’t want politics on the field, so whether it’s taking a knee during the National Anthem, taking a knee before the National Anthem (the Cowboys option), or locking arms as a form of protest, it’s just variations on a brand damaging theme.

[Featured Image: NFL players “take a knee” in London during playing of American National Anthem]

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Comments

Call, write, email the National Fake League, especially the players office in downtown D. C…. letting them know that they have given us the notice “do not care”… So we won’t… Take away the tax incentives!

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to jmt9455. | September 29, 2017 at 1:21 pm

    You said it!

    The National Fools League just don’t get it.

    They’ve swallowed all the red pills in the bottle and just because their suicide didn’t happen the split second the swallowed the last one….

    Well is obvious they don’t have the brains to figure out they are already dead – as an entity!

As Dr. Sowell points out in his brilliant “Basic Economics”, brands are tremendously important as short-hand for consumers. They carry important information in a nutshell.

They have to be cultured and defended constantly, and it’s a major catastrophe when carelessness permits…or malice causes…a brand to be sullied. See TYLENOL®, tampering.

    casualobserver in reply to Ragspierre. | September 29, 2017 at 11:05 am

    Reason #831 why Goodell is the worst NFL executive in a generation. His primary job is to build brand value. Early in his tenure, he was succeeding. But once he started to lean more leftward in “speech” he would allow (limiting 9/11 commemoration, various other symbols on clothing, etc.), people started to cool to the brand. Since then, he has allowed this most recent “protest” to escalate without invoking ANY visible control, and the brand impression is sinking faster than ever. I “left” the NFL a few years back. Many friends left once Kaepernick was allowed to wear pig socks without repercussion. Today, even more are leaving simply because they don’t want such a dose of politics with their NFL whether or not they are on board with any particular message.

    Goodell owns it.

    TX-rifraph in reply to Ragspierre. | September 29, 2017 at 12:32 pm

    “…cultured and defended constantly.”

    Yes. I suspect the NFL will discover (too late) that attempting to repair damage to a brand is like trying to un-ring a bell.

      Ragspierre in reply to TX-rifraph. | September 29, 2017 at 12:59 pm

      It is hard. Sometimes it isn’t the brand’s fault, as in the Tylenol case where it was due to the act of a deranged person. But there are people who make a very nice living helping brands recover from a crisis. It is a process that is taught in better business schools.

      It is a rational, ordered process. It starts with #realism about what happened, and it goes from there to correcting the perceptions/facts so that they are favorable to the brand. See below.

      DaveGinOly in reply to TX-rifraph. | September 30, 2017 at 2:27 am

      The NFL is going to have a particularly rough time of it. Astute fans will realize that the league took no action against the protest to protect their bottom line against sponsor boycotts that would have been organized by the Left in response. If and when the league repents, makes amends, or otherwise apologizes, those same fans (and more) will understand that once again, the league is acting out of financial considerations, and not out of a sincere desire to apologize.

      The league betrayed the fans in two major, irreparable ways. The second betrayal was the doubling-down, that was both a lashing out at Trump and a turning up the volume of the protests, with large numbers of players, coaches, and owners joining in. The league was quick to rub the fans’ noses in the protests just to get back at the president. The first betrayal was the failure of the league to know that the fans have (or had) its back. If the league had disciplined early kneelers, and had the Left struck back with boycotts, the fans would have struck back by supporting the sponsors. But the league didn’t trust them to do that, so limited was their understanding of the depth of fan loyalty – the same reason they don’t understand (yet) the depth of the disgust the real fan now has for the league, the players, and the owners. Betrayal hurts most a partner or friend who is truly loyal, and that person will reject a betrayer with the hardest heart.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to Ragspierre. | September 29, 2017 at 1:22 pm

    This is the NFL’s exploding Pinto gas tank year………

What is it. Oh yeah, The popularity of the NFL is falling faster than Bill Clinton’s pants in a trailer park.

I’d like to see tracking data from prior to Kaepernick beginning his protests last season.

    healthguyfsu in reply to CZ75Compact. | September 29, 2017 at 1:31 pm

    You might see something but I doubt it….a few rogue players can be ignored and the NFL can be slightly hurt for ineptness but would not really be widely labeled as complicit. Ineptness is already a problem in the NFL with discipline procedures and other stupid moves.

    The NFL has pivoted and, with it, public perception. It’s now clear that ineptness was a strategy not a bug.

Rumor circulating that the Raiders line threw the game, punishing their quarterback, allowing him to be repeatedly sacked.

For not conforming.

    YellowSnake in reply to Petrushka. | September 29, 2017 at 11:54 am

    So you have nothing to offer but an unsubstantiated rumor.

      Presented as a rumor, as opposed to the constant flow of utter bullshit that you present as fact.

        YellowSnake in reply to Paul. | September 29, 2017 at 12:05 pm

        It is still just a rumor or an attempt to start one.

        There are a lots of rumors that are not flattering to your brand. There are even lots of facts and quotes.

        daaron60 in reply to Paul. | September 29, 2017 at 2:18 pm

        Donald Penn allowed 1 sack all last year, he allowed 2 in this game alone.

        The problem with the rumor is that the line was manhandled in the run game also, which is M Linch. He has been sitting before it became fashionable in the NFL.

        The Raider is the only all-African American Line in the NFL and it is also the highest paid in the history of the NFL. They did not earn their money last week.

      Just like most of CNN’s “news.”

      Evil Otto in reply to YellowSnake. | September 30, 2017 at 8:20 am

      See the word “rumor” there? Was that your first clue that it was a rumor?

    That would track for me with Alejandro Villanueva’s abject mea culpa on Monday.

    Delanie Walker’s statement regarding the fans may actually be the most tone-deaf of all and I’m sure reflects the attitude of all of the 200 players who took a knee last Sunday plus the ones who drove the bus leading the 3 entire teams not coming out on the field. Sad!

    iconotastic in reply to Petrushka. | September 29, 2017 at 1:17 pm

    Apparently reported on Armstrong & Getty show. Anonymous claim from team that offensive line didn’t do its job.

    -Sacked 4X by Redskins (only sacked once last year)
    -3X center snapped ball early
    -improbable dropped passes
    -reporter asked team official and response by team was to threaten blackballing

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6KzzCCBPYE

    Even A&G recognize that they did not know if it were true. Sounds like the source was reporting on what a lineman said, so definitely subject to a grain of salt viewpoint.

    PhillyGuy in reply to Petrushka. | September 29, 2017 at 1:42 pm

    Here I will help you out. It came from here. These 2 guys talked about it on yesterday’s show
    https://twitter.com/AandGShow/status/913398847048519680

They would likely win back some of those fans if one of the teams signed Tebow.

    theduchessofkitty in reply to windbag. | September 29, 2017 at 11:04 am

    Oh, no they won’t. Tebow makes them look like the felons they are.

    “Bad company corrupts good manners,” Saint Paul said. Tebow’s better off without them.

    TX-rifraph in reply to windbag. | September 29, 2017 at 12:42 pm

    Only if respect for the USA and the flag is a transaction rather than a principle.

    I am now a former fan — an irreversible status. I know the contempt that the NFL, the owners, and the players have for me and my country.

When you boil away all the BS, NFL players are simple entertainers. They are no different than Hollywood actors or musicians. And just like those other entertainers, when they irritate their audience the audience tunes out.

The players have a right to protest, and we have a right not to watch their antics. Guess which group needs the other more?

    casualobserver in reply to Matt_SE. | September 29, 2017 at 11:08 am

    I chuckle every time I see the use of the word “right” in the context of the NFL protests. I’ve yet to see anyone who opposes it or is turned off by it suggest they have no right. Many who want to defend them and especially those who fear damage to the NFL keep screaming about rights.

    The rights of everyone who stands, kneels, cowers in locker rooms, etc., have all been EQUALLY protected.

    Repercussions for exercising rights may differ, however.

      There is NO First Amendment right for an employee to protest while working. The team owners and the NFL have the legal right to forbid this craps, but the owners and the League have decided not to forbid it.

      The First Amendment applies to GOVERNMENT.

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2017/09/26/dont-count-on-an-nfl-defense-free-speech-rights-arent-guaranteed-in-the-workplace/#166ac12016ff

        DaveGinOly in reply to Geologist. | September 30, 2017 at 2:40 am

        I’m a government worker, and even the government can curtail free speech rights in the workplace, because when you accept work, you agree to abide by the workplace’s rules. NFL policy dictates that players are to stand during the anthem. Accepting the job and signing a contract (that almost certainly requires players to abide by all team and league policies) constitutes an acceptance of the rules and policies and agreement to follow them.

        The NFL prevents players from making personal statements on the field expressly to protect the NFL brand. Goodell’s cowardice and lack of leadership caused this entire problem, because he had the authority to put an end to it. He thought by taking a “hands off” approach he could minimize the damage, and it’s turned out that it actually helped to maximize it. Thanks, Roger. Because of you, I am no longer an NFL fan. Thanks Bob Kraft, because of you, I am no longer a Patriots fan.

theduchessofkitty | September 29, 2017 at 11:05 am

They’re being Dixie Chick-ed! And I’m enjoying it!

    The Dixie Chicks turned out to be correct. I can see why you need to tear down people who threaten your brand.

      healthguyfsu in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 1:39 pm

      That would be as stupid as me saying your statement is false, which I won’t say. Instead, I will say you are, as is regularly observed in your posts, conflating fact and opinion.

      The Dixie Chicks lead singer gave an expression of emotion based on an opinion (“ashamed POTUS is from Texas”)…the application of the word “correct” shows your own zealotry and exposes your tendencies toward confirmation biases more than anything.

      The brand impact on the dixie chicks would also suggest that this move, if calculated by the whole group, was foolish and hurt their fiscal bottom line, regardless of how you want to misappropriate your words and display your ignorance.

        Henry Hawkins in reply to healthguyfsu. | September 29, 2017 at 2:01 pm

        Stop beating intellectual cripples. It hurts our brand.

          healthguyfsu in reply to Henry Hawkins. | September 29, 2017 at 2:24 pm

          Haha, I came from a family of teachers…handing out lessons is in my blood, call it a flaw.

          My brand, ow, it hurts.

          YellowSnake in reply to Henry Hawkins. | September 29, 2017 at 4:11 pm

          Hey, why don’t you take your game into the real world and see how it holds up? These guys are putting their lives on the line to make a statement. You don’t have the guts to do the same? Do you?

          Your brand is a joke and you know it. That it is why you are so damn defensive. I’ll bet you don’t even give a sheet about the anthem being played before a ball game. If football is just entertainment, why is it played? Do you stand at home while you are watching a game? Go ahead – lie to me. I know you don’t. I never saw anyone stand or even stop getting a beer. What is the difference?

          You think I am an ‘intellectual cripple’? If you didn’t, I would be worried.

          Henry Hawkins in reply to Henry Hawkins. | September 29, 2017 at 4:14 pm

          See the troll lose his shit. LOL. I enjoyed that.

          YellowSnake in reply to Henry Hawkins. | September 29, 2017 at 4:19 pm

          See the troll lose his shit. LOL. I enjoyed that.

          That is what you think is happenning? Pathetic

          “These guys are putting their lives on the line to make a statement.”

          No, no they are not. Not even remotely close.

          AT MOST they are risking a relatively minuscule financial hit should the league decide to fine them. But given the recent history of the league coddling wife-beaters, drug abusers and various sorts of other felons, I’d say that is virtually no risk at all.

          healthguyfsu in reply to Henry Hawkins. | September 29, 2017 at 5:43 pm

          So triggered

        YellowSnake in reply to healthguyfsu. | September 29, 2017 at 3:59 pm

        1st of all, sometimes it is not about money. Our current president may think you measure everything with money, but he is worthless. There is such a thing as principle and we used to value it before fools like you elected a grifter.

        2nd of all, you have to be an idiot to not understand that what she was saying was that the war was idiocy. Was she wrong – idiot? How exactly has the Iraq War worked out – idiot? Are you ashamed that George W. Bush was President – idiot? Will you soon be ashamed of your brand? Not if you remain an idiot.

          Henry Hawkins in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 4:15 pm

          Meowwwr!

          YellowSnake in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 4:25 pm

          Meowwwr!

          You hurt our country’s brand every time you open your mouth or touch a keyboard.

          healthguyfsu in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 5:44 pm

          I think the triggering is on automatic at this point.

          YellowSnake in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 6:21 pm

          I noticed that you have no answer to my points. You bought a pig in a poke and you just can’t admit it. You brand is not even gold plated. The escalator Trump rode down on is brass. I have been on it.

          Sad!

          tom swift in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 8:16 pm

          I noticed that you have no answer to my points.

          But you don’t make any points.

          Your rank speculations and kneejerk bigotries aren’t points, they’re intellectual embarrassments.

          YellowSnake in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 9:15 pm

          Give yourself a brass ring.

          Evil Otto in reply to YellowSnake. | September 30, 2017 at 7:56 am

          “When somebody says it’s not about the money, it’s about the money.” H.L. Mencken

          Milhouse in reply to YellowSnake. | October 1, 2017 at 9:24 am

          No, I’m not ashamed that W Bush was president. and I’m very glad that Saddam Hussein et fils are no longer in business, running rape rooms, feeding people into plastic shredders, and financing, training, and sheltering international terrorists.

          Sure, the war could have gone better, but the same could be said of almost every war that’s ever been fought; wars are by their nature fought by governments, and governments by their nature are neither competent nor efficient, so we should expect every war to be fought suboptimally. at the end of the day it was successful, we eventually achieved most of our major goals in Iraq, and then 0bama squandered this achievement. In hindsight, knowing that 0bama was going to piss it away, was it worth doing? Certainly the initial invasion was, but I’m not so sure about the rest of it. That’s hardly W’s fault, though.

          Milhouse: I’m very glad that Saddam Hussein et fils are no longer in business, running rape rooms, feeding people into plastic shredders, and financing, training, and sheltering international terrorists.

          The aftermath of the U.S. invasion of Iraq was far, far worse than anything inflicted on Iraq, or the world, by Saddam.

      C. Lashown in reply to YellowSnake. | September 29, 2017 at 5:31 pm

      “YellowSnake”…are you Ragspierre in ‘drag’, or just closely related?

        YellowSnake in reply to C. Lashown. | September 29, 2017 at 6:10 pm

        The fact that 2 people with completely divergent points of view find your brand low brow and that the consumers are suckers should tell you something. But it won’t.

        Just look at the tax plan. Are you going to benefit? Yeh, sure. How much is Trump going to benefit from the corporate pass-thru? Duh! Go ahead. Give me some smart a$$ response to that. Please concentrate on the black athlete while Trump turns the Presidency into a profit making enterprise. Well, at least Trump wears an American Flag Pin.

        Quick look. There’s a bunny over there. See the bunny. Yeah, look for the bunny. Isn’t the bunny cute! Keep looking at the bunny. Oh, you lost your wallet? That’s too bad. But look at the bunny.

          Don’t worry yellowcommie, commies at your level will pay no federal taxes.

          Milhouse in reply to YellowSnake. | October 1, 2017 at 9:27 am

          Who the **** cares whether Trump will benefit from the corporate pass-through? It’s the right thing to do, so if he benefits bully for him. The worst you can say is that perhaps if it didn’t benefit him he wouldn’t have supported it. OK, maybe so. That means what? That he’s a bad person? No news there. But for whatever reason the policy he’s promoting is a good one, so his character is irrelevant.

      DaveGinOly in reply to YellowSnake. | September 30, 2017 at 2:50 am

      The quality of the content of the Dixie Chicks pronouncement isn’t relevant. True, false, or merely an opinion (informed or not), their statement offended fans and ruined their brand. Anyone with any sense could have foreseen the reaction.

      For instance, I personally don’t care about the quality of Colin Kaepernick’s protest. He has a right to his opinion (although he had no right to protest in his workplace – almost nobody has such permission – and that’s what it would be, permission). What riles me is that he wasn’t disciplined because 1.) many fans found the form of his protest offensive; and 2.) the league had the authority to stop it. The league’s cowardice and Goodell’s failure to lead, followed by lying, hypocrisy, and doubling down are what will keep me away from the NFL forever. Colin Kaepernick can continue to protest, wherever he is, for all I care. And I officially don’t care.

      Hey there Mr YellowSnake…whether The Dixie Chicks were correct or not isn’t the point….they torpedoed their own career!

      Considering how difficult it is to make it in the music bizz, that seems like a dumb thing to do…

        tgrondo: The Dixie Chicks were correct or not isn’t the point….they torpedoed their own career!

        Of course it matters, because war matters more than careers. That people hold a grudge because they were wrong and can’t admit it is on them.

Trump should support Congress revoking NFL anti-trust exemption and also have Sec. of Labor task OSHA to investigate issues of “work place” safety of NFL players.

    C. Lashown in reply to SHV. | September 29, 2017 at 11:13 am

    …and taxes! These pigs have been at the trough long enough, time to start paying taxes and get away from the government subsidy paradigm they grown to love.

      notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to C. Lashown. | September 29, 2017 at 2:17 pm

      Speaking about taxes….. That means Hollywood needs to lose all its special tax considerations – from all governments at all levels…..

How can so many in the NFL be so out of touch with their customer base? Many players apparently have never the adage, The customer is always right, but each club owner and the league commissionerknows it.

And, who came up with the idea that employees have a right to politically protest on the job? Not only that, but everyone must respect the protest? Why did owners let this get out of control?

    DaveGinOly in reply to CZ75Compact. | September 30, 2017 at 2:55 am

    “Why did owners let this get out of control?”

    Cowardice. The league didn’t want to discipline a black player protesting about racial inequality for fear of the Leftist call for sponsor boycotts they knew would follow such an action.

It’s too early to tell if this brand damage will be long-term, or something that will recover quickly.

It’s a matter of whether of not it will return. It will only take one player on one team to destroy any bounce-back.

It’s as simple as the old adage …
It takes lots of ‘atta-boys’ to build yourself up,
but it only takes one ‘ahh-shit’ to wipe it all out

    Ragspierre in reply to Neo. | September 29, 2017 at 11:42 am

    No. I disagree as to your “one player” conjecture.

    If the league has a rule it enforces, what one or a bunch of players do is not damaging to the brand.

    It really is that simple. In that event, people will see the acts of one or several as on them, not something the league condones. It would not hurt the league.

      Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | September 29, 2017 at 12:51 pm

      OK, down-thumbing haters, let’s try this…

      1. assume the NFL has a rule (and there’s a really good argument it has one now) that makes “taking a knee” during the anthem a violation of its code,

      2. and assume it enforces that rule if/when violated, and makes a public statement regarding the infraction

      Is the league brand hurt? Or is it helped?

      You can vote with your thumbs.

        inspectorudy in reply to Ragspierre. | September 29, 2017 at 2:10 pm

        The scenario you describe is not accurate. The league already has such a rule and they are not enforcing it. So if in the near future the NFL decides that they have lost enough and tries to enforce their old rule it will impact players more than the public. The meathead fans who love football at any cost to their integrity will always watch no matter what. But for many of us, any gesture now would be one of greed and for no other reason. The genie is out of the bottle and they can’t put it back. The NFL is dead to me!

        DaveGinOly in reply to Ragspierre. | September 30, 2017 at 3:01 am

        Not only does the league have a rule (a “policy”, actually, although enforceable with fines, suspensions, and draft pick losses), every player almost certainly has a clause in his contract that forbids any type of on- or off-field conduct that reflects poorly upon his team and the league, and authorizes punishments for infractions. This is common in many workplaces. It’s unthinkable that an organization as concerned for its image as the NFL does not write such language into all player contracts.

      gmac124 in reply to Ragspierre. | September 29, 2017 at 5:41 pm

      “If the league has a rule it enforces, what one or a bunch of players do is not damaging to the brand.”

      If the NFL had enforced the rule last year when this started you are correct it would not have damaged the brand. Because they did not enforce the rule their brand has been damaged. At this time if they start enforcing the rule it will appear disingenuous causing further eroding of the brand. Now it will take major changes in management/ownership to bring many of the fans that have left back.

        Ragspierre in reply to gmac124. | September 30, 2017 at 10:01 am

        So, if the Berkley police start enforcing the law, they will suffer for it.

        That’s just irrational.

          gmac124 in reply to Ragspierre. | October 3, 2017 at 11:13 am

          “So, if the Berkley police start enforcing the law, they will suffer for it.

          That’s just irrational.”

          Actually trying to use the police in place of the NFL is irrational. The dynamics are completely different.

This linked-arms stuff smells of week-old carp! Hand over your heart, morons, when the National Anthem is playing! Don’t care what you do the rest the time, but respect the country, thanks to the sacrifices of many, that provides you with unbelievable wealth!

    BigDaveLA: respect the country, thanks to the sacrifices of many, that provides you with unbelievable wealth!

    Some people may think that racial justice and freedom of speech are more important than wealth. Go figure.

      gmac124 in reply to Zachriel. | September 29, 2017 at 5:47 pm

      “Some people may think that racial justice and freedom of speech are more important than wealth.”

      Let me know when the first player with a multi million dollar contract quits their job because of “white supremacy”. Until then your quip is a lie.

      DaveGinOly in reply to Zachriel. | September 30, 2017 at 3:26 am

      True, true. So tell me, how many of the players have quit because of the fan’s negative reaction to their protests? You know, in protest of the fan’s rejection of both their “right” to protest and of the message (that America is a racist country)?

      gmac124: Let me know when the first player with a multi million dollar contract quits their job because of “white supremacy”.

      Quitting probably would be an ineffective form of protest. On the other hand, Kaepernick is no longer employed because of his exercise of free speech, and the President of the United States has called for players who speak out to be fired.

      gmac124: So tell me, how many of the players have quit because of the fan’s negative reaction to their protests?

      The President of the United States has called for players to be fired for exercising their right to free speech. Quitting makes no sense.

        (Second quote should be attributed to DaveGinOly.)

        Milhouse in reply to Zachriel. | October 1, 2017 at 9:37 am

        The President of the United States has called for players to be fired for exercising their right to free speech.

        Yes. What’s your objection to that? Tell me, suppose a white NFL player gave a nazi salute, on the field or even off it, or expressed some white supremacist view, (a) how long do you think it would take before he was fired, (b) would you object to that firing, and (c) would you object to the president calling for that firing, assuming he had time to do so before it happened anyway? Now suppose for some reason he wasn’t fired, do you imagine for a second the NFL would not insist on it? and again, would you object to that insistence?

          Milhouse: What’s your objection to that? Tell me, suppose a white NFL player gave a nazi salute, on the field or even off it, or expressed some white supremacist view

          Because calling for racial justice is exactly the same as calling for white supremacy.

          Milhouse: would you object to the president calling for that firing, assuming he had time to do so before it happened anyway?

          The president should certainly speak out against white supremacy, but shouldn’t call for any individual to be fired, especially from an organization under federal regulation. It would be as insane as hitting down at a mayor in the middle of a disaster zone because he felt a personal slight.

      Milhouse in reply to Zachriel. | October 1, 2017 at 9:32 am

      and those things are precisely what makes america great, which is why they ought to respect it. There is almost nowhere in the world with more justice or free speech. There are few places where they would be permitted to hold this churlish display of disloyalty and oikophobia. Which is precisely what makes it wrong.

        Milhouse: and those things are precisely what makes america great, which is why they ought to respect it.

        You seem to be conflating the idol with the thing itself.

        Milhouse: There are few places where they would be permitted to hold this churlish display of disloyalty and oikophobia. Which is precisely what makes it wrong.

        So you’re all for freedom of speech as long as it isn’t actually exercised. There’s nothing disloyal or oikophobic about calling for racial justice.

All I know is this all got started last week in London with the NFL players and owners sitting for the Star Spangled Banner yet standing for the God Save the Queen.

Nothing says I hate American than that. Its showing contempt against the country, what it is and what it stood for. The NFL had time to correct the London message and didn’t. F’em.

    Milhouse in reply to richardb. | October 1, 2017 at 9:38 am

    No, it didn’t get started last week. This has been going on for a while. That was just a particularly egregious example.

That King fellow, always stirring up trouble. It got so bad that other preachers were telling him to stop.

    You are right Zac, MLK was very interested in the rights of the oppressed Professional football player…

    In fact, I was there the night MLK marched down the field and scored a mighty touchdown for those poor, unfortunate millionaire football players…
    (Did you know some of them can only afford one Ferrari?)

      tgrondo: You are right Zac, MLK was very interested in the rights of the oppressed Professional football player

      Football players taking the knee are protesting racial injustice, which affects not just football players.

        Zachriel, do you not think it’s significant that they’ve chosen to take the knee during the national anthem and before the American flag? Surely you understand that the choice to protest (whatever, it doesn’t matter what, racial injustice, unicorn abuse, ill-fitting tinfoil hats) in this particular way is a direct statement about America. Heck, Kaepernick said he intended it to be a rebuke of America.

        Why are you persisting in the completely illogical and insupportable argument that this is only about “racial justice”?

        One can protest racial injustice in any number of ways that don’t read as attacks on America, no? Why not wear a ribbon (all the colors may be taken, though), stamp “America is racist” on one’s forehead, organize a million man march on Washington, or any of a zillion options that don’t include clear disrespect for our national anthem, our flag, and our military?

        Your digging in here is just bizarre.

          Fuzzy Slippers: Surely you understand that the choice to protest (whatever, it doesn’t matter what, racial injustice, unicorn abuse, ill-fitting tinfoil hats) in this particular way is a direct statement about America.

          Well, duh.

          Fuzzy Slippers: Why are you persisting in the completely illogical and insupportable argument that this is only about “racial justice”?

          It’s about racial injustice — in America.

          Fuzzy Slippers: Your digging in here is just bizarre.

          You’re putting an icon before liberty.

        Taking a knee is an empty gesture, Zach…It’s the, # Bring back our girls…it’s the, We Stand With the Paris Massacre Victims Facebook filter…It doesn’t actually accomplish anything!

        If Pro Football players want to really do something about police brutality, they should quit their high paid jobs and become cops!

        Milhouse in reply to Zachriel. | October 1, 2017 at 9:43 am

        (a) there is no injustice for them to protest; (b) even if there were, they are not protesting it, they are showing contempt for their country. They are saying this (imaginary) injustice makes america a dishonorable country that they despise and hate; I don’t care why they feel that way, the fact that they do feel that way makes football fans hold them in contempt, and for that alone they should be fired. They’re bringing the league into disrepute, and their contracts specifically list that as cause for termination.

          Milhouse: (a) there is no injustice for them to protest;

          Haha. Good one.

          Milhouse: (b) even if there were, they are not protesting it, they are showing contempt for their country.

          No. That may be what you feel, but that is not the message most players want to convey. That doesn’t mean your feelings aren’t real.

          “I want Mr. Kaepernick and others who are on a knee, I want them to to listen to the pain that that may cause somebody who, for example, had a spouse or a child who was killed in combat and why it hurts them to see somebody not standing. But I also want people to think about the pain he may be expressing about somebody who’s lost a loved one that they think was unfairly shot.”

Black Lives Matter

Dude, we are Pro-Choice.

Select black lives matter. Choose!

Progress.

That said, Babe Lives Matter.

Watch.. it’s going to turn into racism. If you no longer watch the NFL you are racist and hate free speech and blacks and you are a hater and mouth breather and hate womenz and you are a Trump sycophant and are stoopid.

Excellent article, Professor: You have brought out TWO low quality trolls rather than the usual one troll.

This subject must be considered to be a very high risk for the leftists for them to invest so much.

Make no mistake, the League and the Owners KNOW that they made a big mistake to indulge their spoiled employees. But, they are impaled upon the horns of a gigantic dilemma, at this point. Do they allow this farce to continue and see their revenues decline, possibly for years? Or do they control their employees and possibly see the revenue return? The later is not assured, as sabotage and long lasting hostility from their customer base, fans, may continue to reduce their revenues. What to do? What to do?

    Old0311 in reply to Mac45. | September 29, 2017 at 2:20 pm

    Quoting a famous democrat, “At this point what does it matter?”

      Mac45 in reply to Old0311. | September 29, 2017 at 2:39 pm

      That is the question.

      Look, NFL fans are notoriously fickle. They may come back with little long term negatives for the NFL [it really is the only professional football game in town – the CFL and Arena don’t count to a significant degree]. We could also see another generation of NFL fans spring up in the next few years to revive the league. It will all depend upon how much damage the players do to the venue.

      The players feel pretty safe. Most of them are in lucrative multi-year contracts. And, owners will have to honor those contracts, unless they fold or declare bankruptcy. The owners, on the other hand, to have to make money from the fan base, or at least make enough to break even on the year. So, we will have to wait and see what the owners do about this.

        gmac124 in reply to Mac45. | September 29, 2017 at 5:26 pm

        ” owners will have to honor those contracts”

        Actually most contracts in the NFL are not guaranteed and most have conduct clauses in them. That is one of the reasons that people are so upset with the NFL. Management had all of the tools they needed to nip this act in the bud last year if they had wanted to. The next few months will tell us if they read the tea leaves wrong or not. One thing is certain the people that have left because of the last weekend probably won’t come back without major changes to leadership within the NFL front office.

          Actually, unless the player violates the conditions of employment, the owner has to honor the contract. The owner can not simply refuse to pay a player simply because the owner does not wish to pay or because the franchise can not make payroll. This would be actionable.

          Now, if the owner invokes the league regulation stipulating how a player has to behave during the national anthem and the player refuses to behave in the stipulated manner, or if the player violates some other behavior or performance clause in his contract, then the owner can refuse to honor the contract. If the owner chooses to allow a certain behavior, by his players, then he is legally obligated to honor the contract. Further, if the owner allows or, worse, sanctions, a certain behavior, then changing the policy and banning such behavior may prove impossible to enforce.

          Milhouse in reply to gmac124. | October 1, 2017 at 9:45 am

          I’m certain their contracts allow termination for bringing the team, or the league, or the sport into disrepute. They’ve done all three, so there should be no legal risk in firing them.

For many of us this insulting gesture of disrespecting flag, anthem, and vets for a very dubious cause, BLM thugs who advocate the killing of police officers, can not be undone. Any future development by the NFL will be to help their plunging business model and for no other reason. Locking arms to me is as insulting as kneeling because it shows that they just don’t get it.

    C. Lashown in reply to RITaxpayer. | September 29, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    Heh! That’s what they ‘think’ they’ve done, but I think these sports teams were better at sports than political machinations. This country has ‘married’ Trump for the next few years, like it or not.

I think it is also more relevant than might otherwise be because it represents what is happening in so many other areas of our lives and it’s tiring.

I’m really sick of being declared a racist by people who hate me and many others because we’re white or Republican. This seems to perfectly represent it.

Fall is for hunting. Ducks, Pheasant, Deer. Al Davis taught me that. Although he didn’t know it when he ripped my guts out and moved my beloved Raiders to Los Angeles.

The good news is that you can fish off the fantail. And if you catch something the cooks on the mess deck will fix you up.

    Arminius in reply to Arminius. | September 29, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    I see I got a couple of thumbs up. I don’t live or die by this but still. I remember the day I got recalled to active duty. “Finally, one for us,” I said to the officer to whom I reported when I was recalled to active duty in November 2001.

    She was a black woman. I didn’t feel humiliated. It never [blessed] crossed my mind.

    Arminius in reply to Arminius. | September 29, 2017 at 7:29 pm

    It does now cross my mind. Only because the Moaists demand it.

The graphs are very spiffy but they aren’t terribly relevant. Much like the polls which purport to measure a political candidates’ “favorability”—they’re of no real importance.

The only relevant numbers are how many customers/fans watch games on TV or cable, how many buy tickets and what ticket prices the market will support, and how many buy stuff like jerseys. In other words, money. If it doesn’t make money, it’s not a sustainable business. Nobody cares if they’re regarded “favorably” or not, as long as the money flows in.

Will I ever spend even one dime to support these people:

Not Freakin’ Likely!

Here is some real perspective on the “Injustice” of cops v black males.

Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.
Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers — committed vastly and disproportionately by black males. Among all homicide suspects whose race was known, white killers of blacks numbered only 243.

They can kneel until he11 freezes over before this old fool ever watches again!

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