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Alabama Senate Republican Primary Results (Update: Moore wins)

Alabama Senate Republican Primary Results (Update: Moore wins)

Is Trump now the “establishment”?

UPDATE: Roy Moore has won comfortably. See bottom of post for Updates.

Donald Trump (Luther Strange) versus Steve Bannon (Roy Moore) for the Republican nomination to fill the seat vacated by Jeff Sessions.

It’s turned into a battle between Trump and Bannon, both of whom made appearances for their respective candidates. What is wrong with this picture. How is it that Trump is the “establishment” now?

Polls close at 8 p.m. Eastern. We’ll have results as they come in.

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I’m sorry, but ‘high stakes’ is just a media construct, designed to help steamroll other media constructs.

If you couldn’t tell, this sort of stuff is getting very old for me.

    “I’m sorry, but ‘high stakes’ is just a media construct…”

    Wrong. None of use here gives a crap what the ‘media’ says about anything.

    This is an earthquake: McConnell and his rino backers were just tole to go to hell – much like Jeb! Bush was.

    Trump just had his biggest lesson in rino-ism. He won’t make that mistake again. In fact, I think he did the loyal thing by backing that rat McConnell’s rat. BUT The DOnald has not learned the GOPe is without a base of voters. It has NONE, other than a few rino rich guys who have now been proven impotent.

    Donald: dump the GOPe. The party is yours for the taking.

    Aarradin in reply to Daiwa. | September 27, 2017 at 5:04 am

    McConnell and the GOP Establishment sunk over $30 Million into Strange’s campaign.

    The President personally flew to AL to hold a rally for Strange.

    ^^^ That is plenty to justify the “high stakes” tag.

Is Trump now the “establishment”?


The guy who was a Roy Cohn client (along wid da mob) for years?


    snopercod in reply to Ragspierre. | September 26, 2017 at 8:24 pm

    It’s become painfully obvious that a majority of Senate republicans have zero concern for smaller government, fewer taxes and regulations, and more freedom. So electing anyone who does is a victory, no matter how small.

    Repeal the 17th!

      Ragspierre in reply to snopercod. | September 26, 2017 at 8:28 pm

      Yaaaaaaaaah. I agree.

      So, what does that have to do with anything here?

      Milwaukee in reply to snopercod. | September 26, 2017 at 10:47 pm

      There are Supreme Court rulings which need to be changed. Once upon a time state senate districts represented areas. With the progressive “one man, one vote, (one time)” business, state senate districts match populations, like the representatives. Outsized cities have disproportionate representation.

      How is it the United States Senate is representative of areas, but state senates may not be?

      The longest streaks of time in the U. S. Senate have come after the 17th Amendment. Previously, if a senator didn’t vote in the interest of his state, that would be his last term.

        Milhouse in reply to Milwaukee. | September 27, 2017 at 2:52 am

        With the progressive “one man, one vote, (one time)” business, state senate districts match populations, like the representatives.

        “Progressive business”?! Equal representation is the very foundation of democratic government, and is required by the fourteenth amendment, and by the Republican Guarantee clause in the original constitution.

        Outsized cities have disproportionate representation.

        You lie. On the contrary, they have exactly the representation they deserve. You demand the return of the Rotten Boroughs, which give disproportionate representation to people who live in barren areas. You would give them extra votes on behalf their sheep and cows, just as the slave-owners used to vote on behalf of 60% of their slaves.

        How is it the United States Senate is representative of areas, but state senates may not be?

        That is such a stupid question that if you were an honest person you would never think to ask it. The USA is a creation of the states, not vice versa. The sovereign states together formed the union, and the terms of that union are that each state has equal representation in the senate. The states remain sovereign, and have rights which the union may not infringe.

        A state, however, is not a union of smaller entities. The various districts or subdivisions into which a state may divide itself from time to time are its own creations, and they have no rights whatsoever against the state. The state may create, redraw, or destroy them completely at its will, and can impose its will on them without any restraint whatsoever. It is obvious nonsense, therefore, to pretend they have some sort of right to representation. Only the citizens who live there have such a right, and they have it in equal measure to that of all other citizens.

          OleDirtyBarrister in reply to Milhouse. | September 27, 2017 at 2:13 pm


          You personal attacks on other people during your pretension of being a lawyer on the internet is more than a little old. You are not an expert on everything under the sun, and post a lot of dumb shit like other laymen. I don’t have time to call you out on or correct you. But you have posted more than enough excrement and attacks, and need to reform from being an asshole or get gone.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | September 28, 2017 at 8:31 am

          The very definition of an ad hominem attack. You have no response to my obviously correct comment, so you attack me instead. Do you deny that Milwaukee’s comment was incredibly stupid and dishonest? Could any honest person have made it?

          I never claimed to be an expert on everything. There are plenty of subjects on which I know nothing, so I don’t write about them, or I ask those who do know for explanations. When I write definitively about something it’s because I do know what I’m talking about. When’s the last time anything I wrote here was substantively incorrect?

          Finally, who do you think you are to tell me to “get gone”? I don’t take orders from you. Why don’t you “get gone”, since unlike my contributions here yours are very rarely of any value?

        snopercod in reply to Milwaukee. | September 27, 2017 at 7:16 am

        What would you think about state senate districts being the counties?

          Milhouse in reply to snopercod. | September 27, 2017 at 7:28 am

          What difference do you imagine exists between a “county” and any other subdivision a state creates for its convenience, and over which it is the absolute master? A state may choose to call its senate districts “counties”, but if so they must be approximately equal in population. The name is of no significance whatsoever.

I eschew making predictions, but…

McConnell loooooooooooooses.

    Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | September 26, 2017 at 8:31 pm

    Wow. Down-thumbers for McConnell.

    Hey, go with power up, swampers…!!!

      Colonel Travis in reply to Ragspierre. | September 27, 2017 at 12:47 am

      Can’t speak for anyone else, but this regular reader/infrequent commenter is downvoting you here in principle because your comments are too often dreadful. You have a brain but you purposefully don’t use it, and I don’t understand why.

        Ragspierre in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 27, 2017 at 6:42 am

        Well, read through this thread. I’ll put what I’ve said up as pretty sensible, especially as compared to the literally incoherent stuff you’ll find from SDN and SwineReport.

        There’s the apologia of various people who have to twist plain facts into pretzels to braid a fig-leaf (how’s that for metaphore mixing!) to avoid Acam’s Razor slicing T-rump; why did T-rump back McConnell’s guy? Because Strange’s been T-rump’s guy. There’s no loop-d-loop, nth dimensional chess, or rope-a-dope. There’s just Mr. Establishment.

        He’s just doing what I’ve said he would do for months. He will tomorrow, and next month.

        But delusional minds WILL betray reality to “keep the faith”.

        So, join the haters, Col. Down-thumb away. Signal that virtue.

        Henry Hawkins in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 27, 2017 at 10:22 am

        I think one ought to hold off on “downvoting on principle” until one does have an understanding. What principle is based on one’s ignorance or confusion?

          Colonel Travis in reply to Henry Hawkins. | September 27, 2017 at 12:30 pm

          Knowing of a behavior is not the same as understanding it. I know what Hitler did. I do not understand why a human being would do what Hitler did. Knowing that, say, a freakish desire for power was a motivation is still not the same as me “understanding” it. It’s impossible for me to relate and grasp the full meaning of certain behavior.

          Why someone is so willfully obtuse as a commenter so much of the time, when I know that person has the ability to not be obtuse, does not make sense to me. Sorry, I like to think that using your brain to its fullest vs. not is the better course – even if using it to the fullest means making terrific, oddball comments. But Ragspierre isn’t terrifically oddball.

          This site isn’t run by a lunatic, it’s managed by a great thinker. I expect a higher class of readers here.

    iconotastic in reply to Ragspierre. | September 26, 2017 at 8:48 pm

    A sweet thought indeed.

      Tom Servo in reply to iconotastic. | September 26, 2017 at 8:56 pm

      If Moore wins (as looks likely) Trump is gonna get the best of both worlds. 1st, everyone who’s watched him knows that Moore is a man after his own heart, prone to shooting off his mouth just like Trump, a man who will always saw what he wants. No matter what Trump may feel constrained to say, you know he’s gotta love somebody like that.

      2nd, everyone who’s watched this knows that Kelly and the other generals strong armed Trump into playing nice with the deep state so things would run smooth, and that means going out and pretending you’re for somebody McConnel wants to have the job, even though he despises both of them.

      So, if Moore wins, Trump gets the guy he REALLY always wanted in the job, and he ALSO gets credit for trying to play nice with McConnell and placating the deep state team that’s trying to keep him under control.

      I wonder, if after all the results are in tonight, if Trump is going to look at Kelly, not say anything, and just go “heh heh heh heh.”

        Ragspierre in reply to Tom Servo. | September 26, 2017 at 9:00 pm


          Tom Servo in reply to Ragspierre. | September 26, 2017 at 10:13 pm

          It’s easy to spot when you’ve lost an argument, because you get mad and you get stupid at the same time. For someone who supposedly hates the SJW’s, you sure act a lot like they do.

          Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | September 26, 2017 at 10:15 pm

          I’m not mad. And you’re the one who’s stupid.

          I just don’t take a lot of time to dismiss bullshit.

          Call it a flaw.


          healthguyfsu in reply to Ragspierre. | September 27, 2017 at 9:20 am

          C’mon Rags…your last two responses here are far beneath you. There are teenagers that argue better. Your last comment could easily be uttered by a 5 year old, except for the profanity.

          I used to like you when you had things to say, but you’ve devolved into a blithering fool here. It’s not that your positions are unsound, but you refuse to articulate them, especially without resorting to petulant tactics, not unlike that Trump guy you hate so much.

          I’m not saying I post profound, cogent, well-reasoned arguments or anything but you used to set a decently high standard…in the long, long ago.

        iconotastic in reply to Tom Servo. | September 27, 2017 at 2:06 am

        Too much speculation for me. I am content with thinking that PDT simply was wrong this time. The sharp stick in the eye of McConnell is the real treat.

        There is an honest concern that Jones could beat Moore in the general. Let’s see the RNC get behind Moore now.

          Subotai Bahadur in reply to iconotastic. | September 27, 2017 at 2:48 am

          I’m pretty sure we will see Republican PAC money and other aid go to Doug Jones. And that the national party will try to handicap Moore in any way they can. It is what it is, he will just have to beat both sides like we are getting used to doing.

          Given the “enthusiastic” campaigning Trump didn’t do, this is a message from him to the UniParty: That “veto-proof” majority looks a lot less proof today, doesn’t it, Vichy?

          We just allowed Trump to give Vichy and Lyin a message: “You know, I might be the only thing between you and the pitchforks.”

          Ragspierre in reply to iconotastic. | September 27, 2017 at 6:52 am

          Have someone you think is sane read that back to you. Ask them if it makes any sense whatsoever, or if it’s just nuts.

        notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to Tom Servo. | September 27, 2017 at 1:28 pm

        RE: “So, if Moore wins, Trump gets the guy he REALLY always wanted in the job, and he ALSO gets credit for trying to play nice with McConnell…”

        That’s what I’ve thought all along…….

    legacyrepublican in reply to Ragspierre. | September 26, 2017 at 9:25 pm

    Don’t you just want tomorrow morning Branco to have a cartoon with Judge Moore delivering a knee to the groin of McConnell?


    That’s a knee I would like to see.

    “I eschew making predictions, but…

    McConnell loooooooooooooses.”

    Rags and the NeverTrumpers on suicide watch. They just realized that it isn’t about Trump; it’s that we despise them and the Democrats.

      Ragspierre in reply to SDN. | September 27, 2017 at 8:40 am

      What an absolutely insane thing to say…!!!

      I’m quite happy this morning. My observations and reason…and my insistance on reality…have all been vindicated. Again.

      Sad for you guys. A little.

Hey, it’s 08:35pm. Why hasn’t Strange conceded already?

Meh, Ginger or Mary Ann. Not that huge a deal. Sure, I’d vote Mary Ann, but I could manage just fine with either, and I’d ignore their dads’ advice about it.

The important question is … when the real election rolls around, does Alabama choose Ginger/Mary Ann, or Richard Simmons?

Decision Desk at this hour has Moore up a round 14 points.

Pretty close to polling predictions.

Mary Anne.

It really ever made sense to me why Trump would back Strange over Moore – does anyone have any insight?

    Ragspierre in reply to tyates. | September 26, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    According to the apologia of Tom Servo (above), the “generals made him do it”.

    Matt_SE in reply to tyates. | September 26, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    Trump endorsed McCain in 2016 a couple of months before the voting, even though he hates McCain. At that moment, I suspected he’d sold his soul to McConnell for support.

    Trump’s support for Strange was simply a continuation of that deal.

    Haverwilde in reply to tyates. | September 27, 2017 at 1:37 am

    Actually, it does make sense, if you look at the big picture. The Judge holds beliefs That are not centrist for the rest of the country. Anti-gay, pro-Christian-in-the-court kind of stuff. The judge holds view that I find less than acceptable. However, he was the drain-the-swamp man of the hour. As a former Alabaman I would have voted for him.
    It did not hurt Trump as much to support Strange as it would have if he supported the judge. Thus he got the best of both worlds.

    iconotastic in reply to tyates. | September 27, 2017 at 2:09 am

    Maybe McConnell and others convinced PDT that Strange had a better chance in the general election than Moore. The old “I know we are liars and you hate us but we are still better than Schumer and that crew of traitors” line.

“Mr. Establishment eats one for the swamp”.


How did Trump become the establishment? By climbing into bed with McConnell and Rove!
I hope this humiliating defeat knocks some sense into him. The only way forward now is after the 2018 elections.

1. Trump gets a mini me.
2. He doesn’t have to endorse a controversial candidate.
3. He sends a message that he will not turn against those who support him.
4. He sends a message that his agenda is bigger than himself. The people are in charge.

A win for the anti-Establishment forces. A recent poll from Emerson College [ ] shows that Strange and Moore have nearly identical 3% leads over Doug Jones, among likely voters, with 17% and 16%, respectively, undecided [the sample was nearly 2:1 Republicans to Democrats]. So, this means that neither candidate has a significant advantage in the general election, at the time of the poll. Normally, the Republican candidate would have a significant advantage over the Democrat. We’ll have to see what the race looks like as we approach the general election. Moore should win, but there are still two months to go before the election.

Donald: time to tell McConnell to eat sh-t and die.

Time to throw your cache behind Moore.

What is wrong? Trump has been cut off from control of his own administration by the Islamophilic McMaster and by General Kelly, friend of the Black Lives criminals’ lobby, two of the most politically correct anti-Trump establishment GOP morons in in the country. At least Trump can still Tweet.

I think Trump backed Strange because of some deal made. McConnell would get repeal of ocare passed? do tax cuts? Now trump knows MM will stab his own grandmother.

I’m probably wrong, but I believe Trump’s endorsement of Strange was to get McConnell to finally get Obamacare replaced. Well, if that was true then McConnell sure fell short of that agreement and note how long they dragged that out; right to the day of the election before the senate put a fork in it and said they couldn’t do it.

The Primary is over. It’s time for republicans to come together and defeat the democrat. Whether they do or not will tell us if the establishment republicans wanted Luther Strange to fight democrats… or to help the GOPe fight Trump.

    Ragspierre in reply to clayusmcret. | September 27, 2017 at 8:48 am

    See, I find all this temporizing and costume-sticthery amazing.

    I just watched a speech were T-rump claimed “I’ve always said just let ObamaCare impode, and then fix it”, or WTTE.

    But, no. He hasn’t had a consistent position. And there’s no leadership on the issue from him. Never. He bitches and complains, but that is not leadership.

When, against all reason, The Outsider sides with The Insider’s chosen candidate, you can rest assured his reasons will remain obscure and inscrutable because politically they have to be, lest his supporters gain unwelcome insights. This is also why, against all reason, folks like Koskinen at IRS remain in their high ranking jobs. Again, Trump’s supporters wouldn’t like the reasons, and largely don’t want to know why. They ought to be howling at Trump’s ongoing support of Koskinen, but for the most part, not a peep.

    Henry Hawkins in reply to Henry Hawkins. | September 27, 2017 at 2:20 pm

    Henry, can you blame folks for not wanting to know, not wanting to accept, that Trump endorsed Luther Strange as a trial attempt at appeasing Mitch McConnell in hopes of helping the Trump agenda?

    I know I can’t. That’s tough to spin, even with pretzel techniques.

    “Again, Trump’s supporters wouldn’t like the reasons, and largely don’t want to know why.”

    Gee, Henry, why don’t you explain to us bumpkins?

    That way it will be on record.

      Ragspierre in reply to Barry. | September 27, 2017 at 9:56 pm

      That giant “whoooooshing” sound…???

      That was Hawkins’ point flying in stealth mode right over your benighted noggin.

      That giant sucking sound…???

      Well, we both know that answer…and that it comes from you.

        Hawkins’ point, what was it then?

        You’ll not answer either, fear of stating an absolute, then being shown wrong.

        Go back to calling everyone liars. It works better than sucking Henry’s exhaust.

          Ragspierre in reply to Barry. | September 28, 2017 at 2:06 am

          You know very well I don’t call “everyone” liars, Butt-hurt Barri.

          I do call liars “liars”. Or I do identify people like you.

          I’ve already answered your question. Read, sucker.

          Barry in reply to Barry. | September 29, 2017 at 10:15 pm

          You didn’t answer the question and I knew you wouldn’t. You are the chicken.

Professor, I think your reading of the tea leaves is mistaken.

You see this as “Trump v. Bannon”, and certainly the media and political commentators have pushed that view, but I don’t believe it’s right.

The media is forever trying to drive wedges between Trump and his employees or supporters, with all their unsourced and “leaked” hogwash, and this is no different.

I believe Trump made a deal (and I won’t claim I know what the deal was) that he would support Strange in return for ??? He held up his end of the deal, although people who watched Trump carefully during the campaign feel he was unexpectedly less effective than in his usual campaign speeches.

With that done other Trump supporters campaigned for Moore–not just Bannon but Palin and Ben Carson.

I can believe that Bannon went rogue, or Palin screwed up, but all three of them? And Carson is a Cabinet appointee. I don’t believe this was done without Trump’s approval.

I admit it’s possible I’ve read the tea leaves wrong, but let’s see.

To answer you’re titular question, “No! He’s not.”