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Reversal of Reality

Reversal of Reality

Denying the truth that both sides were violent goes beyond criticism

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/reactions-to-deadly-charlottesville-violence/

The media and political frenzy we’ve witnessed since the Charlottesville riots and death of Heather Heyer last Saturday has been as intense as anything in recent memory.

I’ve often used as a measure of frenzy the media reaction when Mitt Romney made a statement during the 2012 campaign criticizing the Obama administration’s response to Benghazi. By that measure, the current situation is off the charts.

For anyone who remembers, the death of four Americans, including our Ambassador, were cast aside for 2-3 days as the media foamed at the mouth in anger that Romney dared criticize the President and politicize such a moment. Reporters even were caught on tape colluding as to which questions to ask at Romney’s press conference. Romney’s act of stating the truth about Benghazi was an act that could not be tolerated, and so his statements were twisted.

The political sphere went hand in hand with the media frenzy, as Democrats fed and fed off of the media frenzy.

That media and political frenzy was, of course, a reversal of reality. It wasn’t Romney who politicized Benghazi by asking serious questions about lack of protection of our Ambassador and consulate. It was the Obama administration that put out false explanations in order to shield Obama’s campaign. The media frenzy was not to get to the truth, but to protect the lies of the Obama administration.

That 2-3 day frenzy was nothing compared to what we are seeing now, because Trump told a simple truth about the riots. Both sides came ready to fight, and both sides were violent. That’s an undeniable fact for anyone who cares about facts.

Unfortunately, many people seem uninterested in facts. So Trump’s words have been twisted into a supposed endorsement of neo-Nazis and White Supremacists, even though there was no such endorsement stated or implied. In each of his three statements, Trump went out of his way to condemn racism and hatred, and in two of the three statements he condemned neo-Nazis and White Supremacists.

What makes this more intense than the media attacks we have seen on Trump before is that Republicans are running scared. The fear of being falsely called a Nazi supporter by the media and political opponents is so intense that Republicans are falling all over themselves to denounce Trump for stating the simple truth that both sides came ready to fight.

Antifa (fka Black Bloc) anarchists are being portrayed as merely opposed to bigotry, when in fact that are violent thugs opposed to civil society.

In an obscenity, Antifa is being compared to U.S. soldiers who landed on D-Day.


https://twitter.com/Scott_Gilmore/status/897582269308653568

https://twitter.com/GarethSoye/status/897883930958974976

That truth that both sides were violent doesn’t mean both sides were equal.

But the denial of the truth that both sides were violent seems to go beyond mere criticism, into a reversal of reality.

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Comments

Yah, this is utter madness.

    Arminius in reply to Ragspierre. | August 17, 2017 at 12:50 am

    Bicurious…

    https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/views-article/flagvietnam.jpg?itok=SkvB2sU7

    I don’t know what kind of tank that is. I do know it was somewhat traditional for the boys from the south to fly the confederate flag from the radio antennae of their tanks. or to paint the confederate flag on the hulls or turrets of their tanks.

    RAAACISTS!!!

    Test question. Should the Jews of Dachau have refused to open their gates when armor so marked rolled up to the front gates and they were confronted with being liberated by such Nazi equivalents?

      Ragspierre in reply to Arminius. | August 17, 2017 at 4:17 am

      I’d say it was a tank destroyer, which has an open turret. Hence the ready rounds on the side.

      My best guess.

      The Stars and Bars is still a great flag with a proud history. Watch “She Wore A Yellow Ribbon”. Great old movie.

        tigercpa in reply to Ragspierre. | August 17, 2017 at 7:47 am

        Yes, or some multi-purpose destroyer / anti aircraft weapon. The rounds appear to be on clips similar to the Bofors 40mm configuration.

      CalFed in reply to Arminius. | August 17, 2017 at 11:07 am

      M42 Duster anti-aircraft vehicle.

        Arminius in reply to CalFed. | August 17, 2017 at 4:47 pm

        Tanks a million for clearing that up.

        I was a naval intelligence officer which means while I can go into excruciating detail about various MiGs and Sukhois and even Chinese derivatives I know precious little about U.S. armor.

I’m alarmed at the number of people who thinks physically attacking bigots who are spouting nonsense is not only OK but even heroic.

Just think, those outspoken Senators of both parties who’ve scolded President Trump’s comments, will continue affirming judges and justices of the court.

Thanks professor for stating the plain truth.

    Mich in reply to Barry. | August 17, 2017 at 7:25 am

    As someone who doesn’t like Trump, I liked what he said, and it was about time the POTUS was objective about civil unrest. The groups are birds of a feather, and the bump Obama gave the leftist thugs needs to end.

A black friend of mine has been ostracized by her fellow workers for defending the neo-nazis their right to freedom of speech, and criticizing the Antifas for being violent.

    CleanTowelie in reply to MrSatyre. | August 17, 2017 at 10:33 pm

    She should be supported by you and others. We must stand for free speech, opinion and expression when it is under duress.

There is a basic difference in the radical left and the opposing radical whatevers (I am not going to fall for the Nazi’s are “rightists”)… the radical violent Left has tacit support of the organized Left including members of the Dem Party whereas I see no RNC support of white/nazi/thug radicals.

That Democrats in Congress , on the floor of Congress, have called Republicans “Nazis”….They actually believe that.

The Republican leadership not only lied about its political agenda but are even more spineless now. Reagans’s 11th commandment of not speaking ill of other Republicans is gone and leadership has turned into water carriers for the Left and the MSM. They have been weighed in the balance and found worthless.

Brian Fallon: “Also confronted the Nazis without a permit:”

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but..

Didn’t we Declare War in WWII, I think I’ll consider that a PERMIT you friggin’ idiot!

    Ronin0985 in reply to Merlin01. | August 17, 2017 at 12:36 am

    Sorry for the neg. It usually gets lost in the shuffle of history because of Pearl Harbor, but the Nazi’s themselves actually provided the “permit” for those boys to “protest” when they questionably adhered to the letter of Tripartite pact’s collective defense provisions by conveniently declaring war on us.

      Milhouse in reply to Ronin0985. | August 17, 2017 at 3:13 am

      So why didn’t Japan feel any need to declare war on the USSR when Germany did?

        Because they were more realistic.

          davod in reply to SDN. | August 17, 2017 at 8:04 am

          Because the Japanese attacked the Russians earlier and got beaten like a drum

          Milhouse in reply to SDN. | August 17, 2017 at 9:28 am

          Yes, of course that’s why they didn’t want to, but why weren’t they obligated to by their alliance; and since they didn’t, why would Hitler still think Germany bound by that same obligation? Clearly he didn’t feel any such obligation, and declared war on the US because he wanted to, and really thought he could prevail.

        Arminius in reply to Milhouse. | August 17, 2017 at 5:18 pm

        Uhh, because the Japanese had already tried that and the Soviets had handed them their ass.

        http://thediplomat.com/2012/08/the-forgotten-soviet-japanese-war-of-1939/

        The difference of course is that the USSR had already humiliated the Japanese militarily and forced them to the negotiating table and come to terms. The Japanese still had legal and practical realities to deal with just two years later that forced them to abide by those terms.

        Not even Hitler, who could afford to gratuitously declare war against the US in solidarity with his Japanese ally because he wasn’t engaged with the distant enemy on the far side of the Atlantic except through his blockade of Great Britain (and the declaration of war was therefore to his advantage), was crazy enough to imagine that Japan should self-immolate by getting into a three-way war with China, the USSR, and the U.S.

        You history much, bro?

          Milhouse in reply to Arminius. | August 17, 2017 at 7:48 pm

          Actually, according to your source, Hitler did want Japan to attack the USSR at the same time that he did. Japan declined. And yet we are to believe he was such a man of honor that he felt obligated to declare war on the USA just because Japan had?! I don’t think so. I think it’s obvious that he felt no obligation, and did it because he actually thought it was a good idea.

          Arminius in reply to Arminius. | August 18, 2017 at 12:35 pm

          “…(Hitler) did it because he actually thought it was a good idea.”

          Yes. That was my point. It’s why I mentioned his blockade of Great Britain aka The Battle of the Atlantic.

As is being demonstrated, the political left simply doesn’t care about the truth. They will tell any lie, no matter how brazen, to acquire power and smear their enemies.

There are two responses to this, generally speaking:

Many of us realize the nature of our opponents and are alarmed at how openly fascist are their tactics.
Others who are nominally on our side think that we’re still living in the 1950s, when comity still meant something.

The GOP establishment is WORTHLESS. They will turn on us and sabotage the fight against the left in the service of an ideal that died out a decade ago.
McCain and McConnell are prime examples.

The white supremacists who went to protest the removal of the statue were a disgrace to civilized humans everywhere, BUT they were well within their rights to express their opinions, even though I disagree with them.

The counter-protesters who went to protest the protesters, likewise.

The Antifacist nutjobs who went with the intent of provoking violence, not so much. They are criminals who deserve jail cells.

The police officers who were willing to risk their lives to protect the first group from the other two also are quality human beings, with reservations (below).

Now, it gets worse.

The Democrat mayor who gave the orders to the police to shove the protesters from their fenced-in area out into the leftist thugs where they were promptly set upon and beaten should be charged, and the city hammered with lawsuits. There was (as far as I can tell) no effort by the police to separate the two groups until after the press had their photos and videos to run. To make things worse, the street that the woman was killed on was *supposed* to have been blocked off to motorist traffic.

The only shining star of ‘Thank God’ that I can see in the whole mess is that the armed protesters did *not* fire as much as a single round when they were attacked (from what I’ve heard). I am reminded of the 2015 Waco motorcyclist shooting where the police snipers unloaded into the crowd, and am exceedingly grateful the same kind of bloodbath was averted.

I’m suspecting much like the Waco case, the police recorded many, many man-hours worth of video which will never see the light of day without a lot of pressure.

    alaskabob in reply to georgfelis. | August 16, 2017 at 10:55 pm

    The ACLU response does not paint a kindly picture of the police, the mayor or governor. One would begin to think that the desired outcome was a fight and the car ramming unanticipated icing on the cake. The hatred of Trump is so great that this building conflagration against Trump desired by The Establishment is being pushed without due concern for consequences.

      starride in reply to alaskabob. | August 17, 2017 at 7:12 am

      I downloaded a video I found that clearly shows the girl that got killed jumping on the back of the car after the initial impact. She and several others that jumped on the car all had weapons in their hands and were using them.

        jlronning in reply to starride. | August 17, 2017 at 8:38 am

        link?

        Exiliado in reply to starride. | August 17, 2017 at 9:21 am

        Are you going to share, or are you gonna keep it to yourself?

        Wow, I’ve seen the video but didn’t know that was the same girl who was killed…she kind of got caught between the back of the Dodge Charger and another vehicle parked on the street.

        The vid is on U-tube…Are you sure that’s the same girl?

          starride in reply to tgrondo. | August 17, 2017 at 11:31 am

          I saved a copy but i don’t know if it is still available on line, if someone wants it i will put it up on drop box or something like that. And yea i think it is he girl that got caught between the car and the truck. There is no way someone could survive being crushed and rolled like that.

          starride…I realize it must of been an emotion packed moment, but I was amazed at the people who stood behind the Charger to bashed in the rear windows…All Dodge Chargers come fully equipped with…reverse gear.

Florida Gator | August 16, 2017 at 10:36 pm

Well Professor you’ve finally done it. You have caused me to donate $100 bucks to the blog. Keep up the good work.
God Bless

The swamp is a guinea thing, to borrow from Marcus Mumford.

Let’s not forget that the KKK and other “alt-right” groups were Democrat to the bone.

I enjoy watching the Duke’s of Hazzard and I own a 74 charger, does that make me a racist?

    clintack in reply to Elkolbster. | August 17, 2017 at 1:26 am

    Trick question. We can’t answer that until we know what your race is.

    Arminius in reply to Elkolbster. | August 17, 2017 at 5:04 pm

    I used to own a ’68 Dodge Charger with a 440. Not the Magnum but the Police Pursuit Special with forged NASCAR bottom end.

    Clearly I’m a Nazi.

    Then I (and I’m getting just a little misty here) sold it when I joined the Navy.

    Clearly only a “patriot” would give up their environment-destroying Nazi chariot for such a purpose. And isn’t “patriot” just a code word for the white supremacists who want to preserve the white supremacist principles of this nation’s founding?

    I check all the blocks.

Wait, isn’t the word “Nazi” an abbreviation for something?

    n.n in reply to UJ. | August 17, 2017 at 2:16 am

    Yes, and the consolidation of capital and control (i.e. monopoly formation) under left-wing social and economic regimes increases the risk of well known outcomes. Of course, that risk can be mitigated through proper principles, including the recognition of individual dignity (i.e. diversity, not [class] diversity) and intrinsic value (from conception throughout our evolution until our natural death) of human lives.

There is no equivalency at all between people who are armed to suppress other people’s rights to speech and assembly and those who are armed to protect their own rights to speech and assembly. Ditto for the use of those arms. Those who use violence to suppress other peoples political rights are 100% in the wrong. Those who use no more than necessary violence to defend their right are fully within their rights. The content of the contesting views is lexically secondary and cannot weigh AT ALL against the protection of political rights.

This is basic constitutional law. All speech protections are independent of the views expressed. When supposed political leaders like Romney and McCain declare that political rights are secondary to the views expressed they prove themselves to be not just a pair of feckless idiots but un-American.

One person on the side that was fighting to defend it’s political rights went far beyond necessary violence and committed a terroristic act of murder and attempted mass murder, but there is no such thing as collective guilt. Of the two sides, one was within its rights, one was not. In America THAT disparity must always come first. We must first be civilized, then we can get to the substance of our debates.

    Did he? Please tell us how many times you’ve been in a car surrounded by people who are throwing bricks and screaming they’ll kill you just because you’re white.

As per the governor of Virginia, the police had been stood down on account of their being out gunned by the “Nazis”.
I think that is a lie, (and a smear too) a bald -faced lie by that “gentleman”.
And this can be proven , irrefutably so. The cause for such belief is that I have looked up any video I could find, that was shot in and around the occurrences in Charlottesville.In none of them are any individuals with fire arms evident. Bats, yes, some. Sticks, yes, here and there. A goodly number of guys in black helmets, carrying shields. They did not seem to care that they could easily been identified.
As opposed to the Lefties who, almost all, obscured their faces.

Now, of course it is possible that videos of gun-carrying people
exist. Maybe of dozens of AK47’s and M-l5’s and such. Possible.

So,lets ask the good Governor to produce such. Surely he will be eager to oblige to once and for all prove his, the medias, the
Demokrats and at least half of the Republicans claim!

We should also investigate the claim made, that the
“Alt Right” contingent that appeared in that riot had been organized by a guy (he was named in that article, but the name escapes me now) who was also a leading figure in organizing the
Occupy Wallstreet -affair, and that he was a big supporter of Obama in the ’14 election.
(This did not come from Alex Jones, but from the SPLC. (Breitbart, August 16).
Consider the source !

Color supremacy? Perhaps in the sense of a Little China, Mexico, Africa, Italy, etc.

Both groups of American citizens have a constitutional right to assembly and speech. Only the color supremacists received license from the local government for their event. While the Antifa group arrived with the intent to intimidate their competitors and suppress their rights.

As for the violent progression, there are two possibilities for its cause. One, the driver had an intent to cause harm, and for causing an elective abortion should be processed by Planned Parenthood. Two, the driver was herded into a “kill zone”, and reacted as any person would when facing an imminent mortal threat.

That said, we don’t agree with the institutional [class] diversitists (i.e. racists, sexists, “=”, etc.), but there is no effort to prevent progressives or liberals from assembly and speech. We don’t agree with institutional abortion chambers (e.g. Planned Parenthood) that terminate and cannibalize wholly innocent human lives that have been deemed unworthy, but, unlike one-child policy, selective-child is evidence of widespread religious, social, and scientific corruption, that cannot be reformed without a catastrophic anthropogenic climate change or generational education reform.

So, we tolerate our fellow citizen national socialists and our progressive liberals, too. With the goal of reducing their influence in civilized society.

Commie Fascists, AntiFa Fascists, NeoNAZI Fascists… yep denying reality, yep all violent.. what’s the common denominator…

The violence followed by the media noise and GOPe looking for safe spaces appears to be elements of a plan. Never forget the narrative and Alinsky and how the Nazis actually did operate. The godfather of the modern left (Soros) was there and saw it work. This is all part of the plan and it all makes sense if looked at in that light.

    TX-rifraph in reply to TX-rifraph. | August 17, 2017 at 4:20 am

    One side thinks this is a war to be won. The other side thinks this is politics and should be ruled by logic and fairness. Which side will rule my grandchildren when the dust settles?

OF cours you will NEVER hear anything of this from the media! They are far too heavily invested in the idea of over throwing the Presidency of Donald Trump using any means possible regardless of the consequences.

The womans death on the weekend was inevitable given the incitement that media is airing 24 hours a day 7 days a week since November and things will only get worse now that the nazeees have been dehumanised.

The left wants us to look at each piece of evidence in isolation of the other pieces of evidence just like a good defense attorney would do in a trial. We must look at the evidence as a whole as one does in a circumstantial case. The pattern then becomes clear.

Of course nothing shows your peaceful intent more than dressing up in all black and then covering your entire face such that you cannot be recognized. Now it is becoming even more extreme because those who were present at any of these marches/ rallies/protests, whatever are actively being doxxed – yet another form of peacefully expressing your views.
>
One item that continually frustrates me is how the media never mentions numbers. A friend who lives in the area has told me the “neoNazi” side of the demonstration numbered no more than a few hundred, if that, while the Antifa side numbered two to three times that. The way the media portrays this and similar events is that Antifa is there as a minority fighting a noble battle against a superior force who attacked them.
>
Lastly, the “protesters” has a permit to congregate, but there is no evidence that Antifa had one. If this is the case, then why was Antifa allowed to congregate and not dispersed for lacking a permit?

    Cleetus: Lastly, the “protesters” has a permit to congregate, but there is no evidence that Antifa had one. If this is the case, then why was Antifa allowed to congregate and not dispersed for lacking a permit?

    Two reasons. The counterprotesters had a rally permit. Nor would they need a permit to enter Emancipation Park (formerly Lee Park). The woman who was killed in the terrorist attack was just outside Justice Park where the counterprotesters had their permit to gather. Furthermore, the alt-right protesters refused to conform to a police plan devised to minimize conflict between the groups.

The usual suspects, who cant lead us/trump around by the nose.

Best eletion ever.

And mittens romney: f–k you too.

Make no mistake about it. What you are seeing is being deliberately orchestrated by the media specifically to undermine the Presidency of Donald Trump.

Remember when they went off all cockahoop when HRC asked Trump whether he would accept the election results? Yes, so do I…funny how all of a sudden accepting the election results isn’t nearly so important any more now the wrong person won!

This is going to end in tears and it will be squarely on the shoulders of the media that has been deliberately inciting hatred against everyone who dares disagree with their leftist liberal agenda.

    amwick in reply to mailman. | August 17, 2017 at 7:39 am

    This is going to end in tears

    That is ironic because I saw at least three black talking heads crying on national TV yesterday, saddened by President Trump supporting racists… Fools all of them.

    Crocodile Tears much.

Jeff Goldstein [@proteinwisdom] called it correctly back in September of last year: The Alt-Right Is The Mirror Image Of The New Left

http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/06/alt-right-mirror-image-new-left/

A snippet:

Vox Day says the alt-right is conservative. It’s actually an identity movement on par with Black Lives Matter, La Raza, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, and other products of cultural Marxism.

    mailman in reply to bobbelvedere. | August 17, 2017 at 9:22 am

    I had never heard of this alt right until HRC started banging on about it as a reason for why she wasn’t doing better than she should have been doing (and scapegoating everyone who wasn’t supporting her as racists).

    Now it seems EVERYONE is this mythical alt right if they don’t say the right words of condemnation immediately.

      Ragspierre in reply to mailman. | August 17, 2017 at 9:54 am

      There’s nothing “mythical” about the Alt-Right. Leave the conspiracy bullshit alone.

        The “alt-right” is the new “great right wing conspiracy”. It is a manufactured term used to differentiate anti-Establishment conservative entities [bad conservatives] from the Establishment “conservative” entities [good conservatives].

          Ragspierre in reply to Mac45. | August 17, 2017 at 11:38 am

          That’s simply a lie.

          The Alt-Right named itself, defines itself, and you SHOULD have read up on it.

          They are in no part “conservatives”, being explicitly the opposite.

          Mac45 in reply to Mac45. | August 17, 2017 at 12:21 pm

          Here is what Wiki has to say about the etymology of the term “alternative right”:

          “In November 2008, self-described paleoconservative philosopher Paul Gottfried addressed the H. L. Mencken Club about what he called “the alternative right”.[42] This was republished in December under the title “The Decline and Rise of the Alternative Right”[43] in the conservative Taki’s Magazine, making this the earliest published usage of the phrase in its current context according to Slate. In 2009, two more posts at Taki’s Magazine, by Patrick J. Ford and Jack Hunter, further discussed the alternative right.[44] The term, however, is most commonly attributed to Richard B. Spencer, president of the National Policy Institute and founder of Alternative Right.[24][45][46]” – “Alt-right”: Wikipedia

          While the term was originally coined to denote a difference between traditional conservative ideology and that of some right-wing fringe elements, that has all changed. What has happened is the term has been pirated by the liberal media and leadership and applied to ALL rightist persons and organizations which exist in opposition to the aims of the liberal leadership. It is being used like the terms NAZI and fascist, as a pejorative to discredit any rightist person or organization who opposes liberal aims and goals.

          Ragspierre in reply to Mac45. | August 17, 2017 at 1:25 pm

          That’s just bullshit apologia.

          Ragspierre in reply to Mac45. | August 17, 2017 at 1:34 pm

          That’s more apologia.

      Milhouse in reply to mailman. | August 17, 2017 at 9:57 am

      That you hadn’t heard of them only means that you weren’t paying attention. They’ve been highly visible for at least five years. And Steve Bannon openly turned Breitbart into their space. But they’re a diverse set of groups, and thinking of them all as neo-Nazis is as counterfactual as thinking of all the counter-protesters in Charlottesville as Black Bloc or Antifa.

      And of course Clinton did the same thing with them as her husband did 20 years earlier with McVeigh, pretending that the whole Patriot movement was a vast network of white supremacist terrorists. Some time during that witch-hunt I saw a statistic from the ADL or SPLC or one of those groups alleging that “as many as 20%” of militias had racist connections (which could mean as little as one member having once appeared at the same gathering as a Klansman or Nazi, or at the same gathering as someone who had once done so). Since, unlike most journalists, I can do basic arithmetic, this instantly told me that 80% of militias had no such connection, however indirect. Which was in accord with the fact that none of these people I had met were anything like that.

I think you left out the most objectionable part – Trump saying there were plenty of fine people among those KKK/neo-nazi types.

    mailman in reply to jlronning. | August 17, 2017 at 9:21 am

    There probably are plenty of otherwise fine people amongst the KKK, nazeeees, BLM, Antifa etc.

    Lets not get caught up with mere words. Trump was exactly right when he said EVERYONE was at fault. But of course as we know the meeeeja didn’t want to hear that as they have a meme to cultivate.

    Milhouse in reply to jlronning. | August 17, 2017 at 10:00 am

    No, he didn’t. He said there were plenty of fine people, with no connection to the KKK or the neo-nazis, who came to protest against removing the statue — just as there were plenty of fine people, with no connection to the Black Bloc, Antifa, BLM, etc., who came to protest the nazis.

      tiger66 in reply to Milhouse. | August 17, 2017 at 4:11 pm

      This is the point that the media and both political sides are missing. My view is that they are doing it deliberately to make Trump look bad. There were some (who knows how many) people at the demonstration who were not extremists on either side. They chose to assemble to make their views known about an issue they cared about. Had I been living in Charlottesville, there is a very good chance that I would have been at the demonstration. And I am neither a neo-Nazi nor a white supremacist.

In a letter to the editor in the WSJ this morning a writer says it all in his first sentence. “What would have happened if everyone had just ignored the marchers in Charlottesville? We all know the answer. There would be nothing to read about it because it would have been ignored by the msm. How many “Events” have we had in the last 20 years that were entirely created by the msm? If the facts were known, a big part of the conflicts that we read about have been created or agitated by the msm to heights that would have never been reached without their input. This is the fourth leg of our government? We would be better off with ISIS because at least we could all focus on a common enemy.

Hate to say this, but the Daily Kos was right!
These masked hooligans are anarchists – the same ones that tear up cities when the G20 summit rolls into town.
But with a quick name change they are the ANTIFA! – fighting Nazis on American soil!
I’ll bet the Daily Kos will delete that article from their archives, sine the Antifa are big heroes now…

The whole objective of the leadership of the major opposing groups in Charlottesville was to create exactly the result which occurred. The whole thing was staged to create violent conflict. The only thing that is not readily apparent is what the long term goals of the parties involve were.

Here is a thought provoking little tidbit:

http://www.wnd.com/2017/08/setup-man-behind-white-supremacist-rally-supported-obama/.

I’m not sure what this means, exactly, but it does cast doubts as to exactly WHO was running this whole affair. One would naturally expect the Antifa, BLM and other liberal storm troopers to be controlled by leftest, possibly anarchist, interests. And, one would expect that the white supremacist groups would be run by right wing, “racist” interests. But, with Jason Kessler organizing the right wing groups demonstrations, it becomes rather murky. Even the ACLU’s argument that the city could not change the venue to a less populated area is more than a little suspect, in light of new revelations as to the evidence presented, in court, which strongly predicted that violent conflict would occur.

This is why it is dangerous to rush into conclusions on things. This whole morass is being portrayed strictly as either a group out to exercise their 1st Amendment right to freedom of assembly and free speech which was criminally attacked by vicious left wing storm troopers. This is, largely, true. The opposing view is that this was all a counter demonstration against vile, racist groups which became violent due to actions of the group protesting the removal of the statute. Again, there are some elements of truth in this narrative, as well. However, as more information comes out, about this incident and the people involved, very disquieting elements begin to emerge; especially a previous strong link between one of the organizers of the original demonstration and one, or more, of the groups involved in the counter demonstration. Then, of course, there is the near total condemnation of the philosophy of the white nationalist groups, including moderate and right wing politicians and leaders. However, NO condemnation of the philosophical aims of the groups involved in the “counter demonstration” has been forthcoming from ANY liberal leader in the country. Just another interesting factoid to consider. Finally, the “outraged common citizens heroically standing up to the dark forces of white supremacy” meme was already set to go as soon as this incident occurred.

Beginning to scratch your head yet? Good. Remember when I said, in another thread, to beware the danger posed by anarchists and anarchist groups? Neither the followers of most white supremacy groups nor their counter parts in the liberal and anarchist groups are the sharpest pencils in the box and are largely blinded by their individual ideologies. However, this makes them useful tools for leaders who wish to foment dissension. Again, just something to keep in mind, as this progresses.

    Milhouse in reply to Mac45. | August 17, 2017 at 12:42 pm

    WND and Breitbart are, as usual, lying through their ****ing teeth.

    The organizer of the violent rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, was until recently a Barack Obama supporter and was also a member of the leftist radical Occupy Wall Street Movement, according to a report from a hard-left activist group. […]
    The Southern Poverty Law Center, an extreme leftist group that’s hostile to conservatives, reported that Kessler appears to have a history of leftist activism and only expressed a “rightward shift” in November 2016 – around the time of President Trump’s election.

    Breitbart ran almost identical claims. But these are not just deliberate ****ing lies, but stupid lies, because they both cite the SPLC’s actual words, which very clearly do not say anything like this. What SPLC actually wrote is that “Rumors abound on white nationalist forums” that Kessler was a leftist. The SPLC report (whether truthful or not) is not about Kessler’s past but about what his fellow neo-nazis are whispering about him. There is not the slightest intimation that these whispers might be true. Breitbart and WND made that up themselves, and cite SPLC in a pathetic attempt to give it credibility. Unless and until some shred of actual evidence emerges for it, this whole idea of Kessler as agent provocateur is pure speculation and wishful thinking, a despicable exercise in blame-shifting.

      Mac45 in reply to Milhouse. | August 17, 2017 at 2:43 pm

      So, here is the entire quote from the SPLC on Jason Keller [ https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jason-kessler ]:


      Jason Kessler
      Extremist Info
      Born
      1983
      Location
      Charlottesville, Virginia
      Ideology
      White Nationalist
      About Jason Kessler

      A relative newcomer to the white nationalist scene, Jason Kessler has made waves in his attempt to unseat Charlottesville’s only black city councilman and for his status as a bridge between a Virginia gubernatorial candidate and the Alt-Right. Relying on familiar tropes of “white genocide” and “demographic displacement,” Kessler has sought to parlay his status as a lonely dissenter in the “Capital of the Resistance” into notoriety on the larger far right circuit by organizing a second white nationalist rally in Charlottesville after the first, torchlit rally in May of 2017 made headlines.

      A “journalist, activist and author from Charlottesville, VA,” Kessler’s LinkedIn account states that he graduated of the University of Virginia in 2009. He was virtually unknown in the media prior to his crusade against Charlottesville Vice Mayor and City Councilman Wes Bellamy.

      Although Kessler has protested both of his arrests relating to his recent crusade and decries them as attempts to use “the liberal nature of this city to really mess with me,” those arrests do not represent his first brushes with the law.

      Arrest records indicate that Kessler was convicted in 2005 for shoplifting, obstructing justice and for a string of failures to appear and register, in addition to numerous traffic violations and citations.

      Kessler started his blog “Jason Kessler, American Author,” toward the end of 2015 and spent the majority of the next year dispensing mindset and lifestyle advice and promoting two books authored during a period of “worldwide travel.” The first is a book of poetry titled Midnight Road, and a second novel called Badland Blues about a “drunken dwarf,” who is “unlucky in love, looks or money.”

      Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama.

      At one recent speech in favor of Charlottesville’s status as a sanctuary city, Kessler live-streamed himself as an attendee questioned him and apologized for an undisclosed spat during Kessler’s apparent involvement with Occupy. Kessler appeared visibly perturbed by the woman’s presence and reminders of their past association.

      Kessler himself has placed his “red-pilling” around December of 2013 when a PR executive was publicly excoriated for a tasteless Twitter joke about AIDS in Africa.

      Regarding the incident, Kessler stated “… so it was just a little race joke, nothing that big of a deal, she didn’t have that many followers, she probably didn’t think anybody was gonna see it,”

      Regardless of Kessler’s past politics, the rightward shift in his views was first put on display in November, 2016 when his tirade against Wes Bellamy began.”

      So, the SPLC felt that this incident was troubling enough to include in its profile of Kessler. What it means, exactly, is up for debate. But, it may indicate that the rumers concerning Kessler’s past associations may have some merit.

      It is interesting that YOU so quickly characterize this as totally false. Ummm, wonder why.

        Ragspierre in reply to Mac45. | August 17, 2017 at 3:19 pm

        What’s REALLY fascinating AND TELLING is that YOU use the SPLC as a scource authority.

        Plus, you really have a reading problem…

        “Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama.”

        What part of “rumors” and “seem” do you not get? Really.

        This loser sound like the very stamp of an Alt-Righter.

          Mac45 in reply to Ragspierre. | August 17, 2017 at 4:30 pm

          Sorry, Charlie, but you do not get to cherry-pick the SPLC post.

          Though the SPLC DOES say that Rumors abound and Seem to point to involvement, the Center also took the time to note the exchange between Kessler and a woman who publicly apologized for a spat with Kessler while he was involved with Occupy. That it was included would indicate that the SPLC took this as potential evidence that Kesler WAS associated with Occupy in the past. This also took place where Kessler was speaking in support of Charlottesville’s status as a sanctuary city.

          While this is not proof, it is very strange that this woman would mistake THIS Kessler for the Kessler who was affiliated with Occupy, with whom she had a dispute, and that a “white supremacist” would support sanctuary city status. In order to totally accept the premise that THIS Jason Kessler is not the same one who was affiliated with the extremely liberal, anarchist Occupy Wall Street, you have to assume that the woman, mentioned by the SPLC, mistakenly identified him and that this is all a case of mistaken identity. This is, of course possible. Otherwise, you have to acknowledge that he is, in fact the same Jason Kessler, who was affiliated with Occupy but, had a moment of epiphany and took a 180 degree turn in his political philosophy, to go from liberal anarchist to white supremacist. Again this could have happened. However, that would not explain his support, as a “white supremacist”, for sanctuary city status for Charlottesville. That seem to be an unusual stance for a white nationalist/supremacist to take, doesn’t it?

          While there is no conclusive evidence to support the idea that Kessler was affiliated with Occupy Wall Street and is now representing himself as a dedicated white nationalist, there exist facts which make such a thing possible. We will probably learn more about this as the alt media continues looking into the person of Jason Kessler. I only noted it as an interesting factoid.

          Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | August 17, 2017 at 4:45 pm

          No. There are NO “facts”.

          You recite anecdotal crap from an extremely dubious source that even equivocates its own blather.

          Every word is suspect. Unless you just want to believe it.

          As to your “interesting factoid”, you had a LOT more to say in support.

          **However, as more information comes out, about this incident and the people involved, very disquieting elements begin to emerge; especially a previous strong link between one of the organizers of the original demonstration and one, or more, of the groups involved in the counter demonstration. Then, of course, there is the near total condemnation of the philosophy of the white nationalist groups, including moderate and right wing politicians and leaders. However, NO condemnation of the philosophical aims of the groups involved in the “counter demonstration” has been forthcoming from ANY liberal leader in the country.**

          BTW, Norm Chomsky HAS said that AntiFA are a pure gift to the right.
          http://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/17/chomsky-antifa-major-gift-right/

          Mac45 in reply to Ragspierre. | August 17, 2017 at 9:59 pm

          In the first place, how much weight you choose to grant any source is up to you, the individual. But, simply dismissing the4 SPLC’s posting, without analysis suggests a preconceived bias as to its accuracy.

          Second, there is no reason to doubt that the “facts”, of the suspicions posted by white nationalist sources and the identification of Kessler as a former member of Occupy, are false. NO one here is disputing the claims that other white nationalists have made such claims. And, the claim of the identification of Kessler as being a former member of Occupy can be easily verified. So, the existence of those facts is not really in question.

          Third, The qustion here is that IF Kessler was a former member of Occupy, which is closely allied with Antifa and BLm and several other anarchist organizations, might it be possible for him to still be philosophically allied with those organizations rather than with the white nationalist movement which he purports to represent? Once again, if the SPLC report is accurate, aligning himself with sanctuary cities seems to run counter to the position held by most of the white nationalist movement and more in line with the position held by liberal and anarchist groups. Which brings up the question of exactly what HIS agenda is.

          As for Noam Chomsky, he is hardly a leader on the left, today. He wasn’t even a leader in the past, except among the radical fringe. In addition, his quote ws hardly a condemnation of the philosophical goals of the Antifa. He was critical of their actions in general, as being too violent, rather than morally wrong. So, as I noted, no liberal leader has condemned the groups on the left in Charlottesville.

        Milhouse in reply to Mac45. | August 17, 2017 at 5:11 pm

        What part of the SPLC report did I call false? What I called false, because it is false, is that SPLC reported that he’d been an Occupier, when in fact what SPLC reported is that Kessler’s fellow nazis don’t trust him, and whisper behind his back that he used to be an Occupier.

        If I tell you that there was a persistent rumor in the USSR that Stalin’s father had been a Jew, I am not telling you anything about Stalin or his family origins. Ditto if I tell you that many Jews believe that Hitler and Arafat were both of Jewish origin. Jews and antisemites share a habit of identifying villains as Jews. Jews even have a saying: מהרסיך ומחריביך ממך יצאו, a bitter pun on Isaiah 49:17, meaning that our worst enemies come from within.

          Mac45 in reply to Milhouse. | August 17, 2017 at 9:29 pm

          How did you miss the part of the SPLC post that recounted the woman publicly identifying Kessler as a former member of Occupy with whom she had a disagreement previously? The SPLC posting included both the unsubstantiated charges that Kessler was previuosly affiliated with Occupy along with a documented incident where Kessler was directly identified as a former affiliate of that organization. How much weight anyone wishes to give that is entirely up to them. But, SPLC did not dismiss the charges out of hand, as you suggest.

          I went to great lengths to lay out how Kessler could be the victim of mistaken identity and was never affiliated with Occupy. I also laid out the scenario, which is partially supported by Kessler, who has stated that he had a “red pill” experience a few years ago which caused him to become a white nationalist. However the positions that he has taken since that “red pill” moment, such are supporting sanctuary city status for Charlottesville, cast more suspicion on just how sincere he is in his “white nationalist” ideology.

          The point here is, that if Kessler was a former member of Occupy, then his motivation is suspect, in this matter. So, let’s investigate Kessler’s past and his current affiliations and then we will all know whether his motivation should be suspect or not.

Kessler has pro Occupy Wall Street articles under his name .I have read several on other sites . If someone has access to Lexis nexus they should be able to pull up all his articles

I’m just floored and horrified by the utter, despicable irrational reaction by the media and people who buy into this obvious propaganda. President Trump was correct, there’s plenty of blame to go around. Antifa went there looking for trouble and found it. I fear them more than a disjointed bunch of white supremacists with no power. Antifa has a large body of work rooted in violence and anti-free speech and seemingly has the full backing of the entire establishment and this is utterly disturbing. Progressives have simply lost their effen minds. And the gall of these thuggish twerps who probably never picked up a history book in their lives to compare themselves to soldiers of WWII who faced true evil is a farce and disgrace and we should push back with all the intellectual might we posses.

I’m surprised no one has looked at this Wes Bellamy character.

People act like speech we abhor should be silenced by thugs while the police back off. When did we become a third world country? The Nazis as despicable as they are had a right to speak and to demonstrate. They are a minuscule amount of people and are no threat to our country. What is a threat is the bussed in thugs that attack anyone they don’t like while the government watches and does nothing. The fact that liberal writers condone these actions shows that they don’t really believe in liberal values.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html … so CNN today posted a story that agrees there’s violence on both sides of course buried deep down their feed

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