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If at First You Don’t Secede, Whine, Whine Again

If at First You Don’t Secede, Whine, Whine Again

#CalExit gives birth to #WasExit, #OrgExit and other secession dreams.

In June, I noted that interest in #CalExit, a #Brexit inspired movement in which California would secede from the union, was growing.

National Review now reports on #CalExit, #OrgExit, #WasExit, and other secession campaigns coalescing within deep blue states where progressives are bemoaning the fact that billionaire businessman Donald Trump is now President Elect.

“Yes California,” a political action committee fighting for California’s independence from the union, is campaigning to qualify a secession initiative for the 2018 ballot, which in turn would force a special-election referendum on the question. The group had gained little traction since its founding in 2015, but received an outpouring of support for their movement in the aftermath of Trump’s victory.

…Democrats from California, Oregon, and Washington state created hashtags to promote the idea of a secession comprising all three states. While red states such as Texas are constantly mocked for their secession movements, it seems that Democrats in blue states are following an identical playbook. And it’s not just on the west coast. Vermont’s secession movement, the Second Vermont Republic, is one of the largest in the country; they’ve elected multiple officials to the state capital.

Here is a sampling of some of the Tweets:

As Professor Jacobson reminds us, this is not the first time that progressives have whined about presidential election results. In 2004, MSNBC’s Lawrence O’ Donnell appeared on a panel hosted by the McLaughlin Group and said a “serious discussion on secession” would begin shortly after President Bush’s re-election and last for 20 years.

On the other hand, the moment the Huffington Post used a click-baiting headline to imply former Texas Governor Rick Perry was threatening to secede after Obama’s election, the Left was screaming treason.

Legal Insurrection readers may have reason to cheer-on #CalExit. Even infamously conservative Orange County went blue this November.

Hillary Clinton has beaten Donald Trump in Orange County, the first time since the Great Depression the county has gone blue in a presidential election.

Clinton, the Democratic nominee who lost the presidential race to Republican Donald Trump Tuesday, has received nearly 50 percent of the Orange County vote with all precincts reporting and 795,000 votes counted as of Wednesday morning, according to the Orange County registrar of voters. Trump had 44.9 percent of the vote.

Ultimately, as Glenn Reynolds notes, secession is for losers.

But the key point is that secession is for losers, because under today’s federal government, losing is intolerable. If you think that you can’t win nationally, you want to secede locally. If we had a more tolerable federal government, even losers wouldn’t want to secede. Maybe, even after this year’s election, we should give that a shot.

Working for a more tolerable federal government is hard…as I know from having been a citizen activist since 2009.

But whining on Twitter is easy. So, if at first you don’t secede, whine, whine again.


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Think of it as the new federalism.

Perhaps we should exile all libs to Cali and wait for it to drop into the sea like the good Dem congressman from Georgia said would happen to Guam if its population grew too large.

    lduimstra in reply to persecutor. | November 12, 2016 at 11:54 am

    Wait a minute before you do that. Out here in the Mojave Desert we are 100% Navy!! We are real Americans.

    I could agree with calexit if they were only taking the corrider from somewhat south of L.A. up to 50 miles or so north of Frisco . All the liberals could move into that area free of charge and get a year’s supply of tofu for moving.
    Way too many good conservatives stuck behind enemy lines for us to abandon them. They could be our wall against Liberalcal using all the new guns they could now buy without having to look to see if it’s on the list of approved guns.

They do know this is how the Civil War started, don’t they?

    tom swift in reply to Old0311. | November 12, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    The Civil War started because certain Southern gentlemen wanted what was, to that point, a peaceful process (albeit one of dubious legality), to turn into a shooting war. They were afraid that otherwise, a bit of thoughtful reconsideration would lead to a rapid Southern change of heart, the secession movement would die, everyone would pretend that it had never happened, business-as-usual would resume, and the South would still be haunted by the eventual end of its “peculiar institution”.

We should encourage them to go. Their leadership’s ideology is poisonous.

Of course they’ll have to fund their own defense, and when their ponzi pension schemes collapse, and their water infrastructure needs to be updated they won’t be able to pick Uncle Sam’s pocket.

Their departure would also be a tremendous boon for high tech areas such as Austin, Boston and others.

    TX-rifraph in reply to Paul. | November 12, 2016 at 11:47 am

    Can I do more than encourage CA to go?

    Can I vote too? Will this be the one time they actually check voter ID?

OC going blue was the inevitable result of Mark Steyn leaving the OC Register. That’s my story & I’m stickin’ to it.

    mrboxty in reply to Daiwa. | November 12, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    I’ve read that the left wing Dean of UC Irvine law school, Erwin Chemerinsky, was using his position to move OC to the left. He was opposed by many of the donors who paid for the building of the law school, but was drowned out by cucks like Hugh Hewitt, who white knighted for Chemerinsky.

    I was hoping the graphic at the top of this blog post meant that the coastal liberals wanted to split California in half. I’m all for that! Let them keep everything north of OC, but take Chemerinsky with them!

Any state’s secession will not happen. Besides the fact that the US Civil War decided the argument as to whether state could secede or not, no state can survive, economically, as a sovereign nation.

Libs are always doing this. When they do not get their own way, they threaten to leave the country. They never do, though. There is a reason why the US is THE nation in the world that people immigrate to, including “sneaking” into.

    We’ve had this argument here several times before regarding secession of a State. There is nothing Federally or Constitutionally preventing a State from seceding from the Union. The closest thing is a (rather muddled) SCOTUS decision of dubious stare decisis precedent.

    If California, Washington and Oregon wish to seceded, I say let them go with our blessing. With any significant luck, they will draw the Progressives to their “Utopia” and the rest of us can go back to governing with some semblance of reality without having to constantly argue their foolishness.

Let them go and govern. Please do not move to my state once this experiment goes awry.

    Daiwa in reply to natdj. | November 12, 2016 at 11:34 am

    Immigration from a Republic of California could get a little messy. Have to admit it would be somewhat tasty to lock them in once they decided to leave. Not gonna happen, of course; we’ve just moved very quickly from the Denial phase to the Anger Phase, which is likely to last a bit longer. Coping with loss is much harder for the left for some reason.

We might want to consider arranging for it, though. My guess is all the illegal immigration would funnel there, even be welcomed there, saving the rest of us a boatload of money & trouble.

    Ragspierre in reply to Daiwa. | November 12, 2016 at 11:45 am

    But that would vastly expand the “border” over which illegals could enter the US! Oh…wait…

    It’s a hard reality that Kulhifornia is already a secessionist state as pertains to immigration law.

    Why not let them make it formal if nobody is going to hold them to the law?

Conservative Beaner | November 12, 2016 at 11:29 am

Give California back to Mexico and let the fine citizens deal with the drug cartels and corrupt public officials. Watch your taxes go up to pay for all social programs you will never receive.

After you leave don’t be surprised if some parts or your former state decide they want to secede and rejoin the US.

Here’s what we do:

1. Support CA’s sucession in every way we can.

2. Make sure the process takes at least a year, so as many liberals as possible can move there for the Great Sucession.

3. Affect the Great Succession. Make it happen.

4. Wait six months or so.

5. Invade CA militarily, General Sherman style, with special attention paid to leftist institutions and organizations. Raze it all to the ground.

6. Rebuild CA and fold it back into the USA with the suggestion not to f**k it up again.

Actually CA election was a mixed bag. Trump bombed, to be sure. Worst performance by any R in recent history. Bloodbath, actually. The final tally is 62:33. Both McCain and Romney lost the state by less than 10. But Trump is not a conservative, he’s an authoritarian. His appeal throughout the West and the Southwest is very limited. He’s an alien creature here.
There was no R willing to run for Senator this year, Republican Party is pretty much defunct.
However, propositions tell a different story. This was not 2014 when every socialist measure passed. Bernie-supported prop 61 (he came here to campaign for it) didn’t pass. Death penalty is kept in place. I was pleasantly surprised by some of the local measures in… the Bay Area. As the Bay Area goes, so does California.
As for the histrionics… please. We believe that we change the country and the world.

    Living in the OC, I think this was a terrible result for our state. Most Republicans I know here were pathetic, being “never trumpers” like emotional children. We outlawed plastic bags, legalized pot for all, made it harder to buy ammunition, voted in Kamala Harris, and my county went blue.

    We are moving backwards and arrogantly thinking we are setting great trends.

    On what basis do you consider Trump an “authoritarian”

    He’s been president elect for 3 days….

    Also, what the hell is wrong with the GOP in CA?

    My liberal friends there make Cali Republicans sound similar to the Martha’s Vineyard set. I see California as what the GOPe intends for the rest of the country – a bunch of wealthy over-educated snobs that have more in common with Pelosi than they do Joe the Plumber.

    “1% less liberal than those other guys” appears to be their moto.

    SoCA Conservative Mom in reply to edgeofthesandbox. | November 12, 2016 at 12:43 pm

    Trump didn’t bomb in the entire state. There are still areas of deep red, but there is a definite shift to blue.

    Trump is not an authoritarian, get your head out of your nether region.

    Your ignorance is showing. There were Republicans willing to run for the Senate, however since CA went to a runoff between the top 2 vote getters in the primaries, there were 2 Dems on the ballot for the Senate.

    Speak for yourself and not others when it comes to anyone’s appeal. If Trump is so unappealing to those in the West and Southwest, why did he win Nevada and Utah? “The West” isn’t San Francisco and Los Angeles.

    “As the Bay Area goes, so does California.” What you don’t get is that this election was a push back against everything the Bay Area stands for… illegal immigration, more homelessness, more corporatism, liberal rich dictating to everyone else how the country should be run (for their benefit), in addition to liberal condescension that anyone who disagrees with you/them is homophobic, racist, sexist, and xenophobic.

      62:33 does not count as complete failure?

        Edge, play fair.

        Yes, ~overall~ Trump bombed in the state, however look at the demographic distribution of the voting blocks and the major population centers.

        In Los Angles county, The Clinton received 1.6mm votes to Trumps 0.5mm. That’s a big, big chunk of the difference right there.

        In San Francisco, Clinton received 230K to Trumps 40K. Santa Clara and Alameda were similarly lopsided toward Clinton.

        The distribution in ~most~ of the rest of the state was semi-balanced on a county by count basis (some of the small counties had similar swings, but others had equally large Trump swings)

          These counties always go Democratic. Yet, there was a shift in Sacramento, Silicon Valley, Orange, etc. And yes, SF, Alameda are blueberry than blue in this presidential race.
          my point is not that Ca, once again, voted Democratic, but that the margins of Trump’s defeat was astounding. If you look at the propositions, we are still the 45:55 state, and even then there are some small inroads. I can sssure you there are many conservatives and libertarians in the Bay Area. Like I said, I was pleasantly surprised by some local measures. It’s Trumpism that we reject.

        Henry Hawkins in reply to edgeofthesandbox. | November 12, 2016 at 6:19 pm

        Don’t forget DC – 98:2, lol.

    ‘He’s an authoritarian.’

    And that’s different from Hillary or BO how, exactly?

CA is an example of what happens when establishment Republicans are content to be liked by the Dems and the media, but never willing to fight.

We still owe China a ton of debt. Just sayin…

Kills several birds with one stone
1) china gets CA in asset collection
2) the Left gets their socialist utopia
3) china secures the southern border with armed troops

Let them go .. sort of.

There is one exception. None who wants to be part of the US should be forced to leave.

We can’t do it household by household, but we can do it county by county. Any county wanting to stay should not be forced to leave. Individual households might be able to work something out swapping property.

Finally since they don’t want to be a part of the US. They pay for the wall between them and the US.

There already is a petition for a ballot measure for Oregon to leave.

The state as a whole would never succeed – the southern part of the state is more conservative.

    SoCA Conservative Mom in reply to | November 12, 2016 at 1:13 pm

    Almost the entire eastern half of the state is more conservative as well. Really it’s the coastal areas that are liberal, lead by San Francisco and Los Angeles.

      That’s why i call for county by county decisions on seccession.

      This was an interesting debate four days ago about secession.

      The thing I take great note of is the arguments about productivity, tax dollars, water rights etc.

      The big point though is that uif you go county by county. Then suddenly none of those arguments make any sense. The groups that give the prosecession arguments strength are exactly those who would vote to stay in the US.

        SoCA Conservative Mom in reply to RodFC. | November 12, 2016 at 1:47 pm

        “That’s why i call for county by county decisions on seccession.” That’s what I’ve been saying as well.

        The big issue is water rights, but there are several others. Regardless, I doubt secession will ever happen.

        I do find it comical that when Tea Partiers were calling for secession or at least carving up the state into any number of states, the lefties were laughing and calling them crybabies for losing. Now that the shoe is on the other foot…

    amatuerwrangler in reply to | November 12, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    The State of Jefferson movement has been around for a few years now… northern and eastern counties looking to join some south Oregon counties and form a new state. The regions are generally rural, or cities with rural values. The peeps are tired of the Sacramento BS.

    A simple split would be north-south, along I-5. And it would dilute CA’s impact on Congress and the Electoral College.

      The latest version is for the eastern halves of California, Oregon, and Washington to jump ship and join Idaho. It would avoid the messy issue of secession; they’d just be re-writing state boundaries!

      (I give this option about the same likelihood as secession, BTW.)

Let them go, tax the sh*t out of their exports to the USA, enjoy the prosperity here, gloat about the electoral advantage conservatives would enjoy for decades.

The response should be petitions to break the state up into four. I remember something about that several years back, not sure how much traction it got, but I would love to see Cali’s conservatives break up 55 EC votes and finally get a voice in national elections.

Let them go so they can learn a hard lesson. But also after they secede let them know that they have no right of passage over our country, they will need to go around. They will also have to negotiate a NAFTA with us. Also all Federal personnel both civilian and military will be withdrawn along with all of their equipment. We will also have to make all the military bases and ports non usable by what may potentially be a hostile country. All nuclear plants must either be shut down or be inspected quarterly to make sure they are not producing nuclear weapons. All bio companies the same. Any water or electricity entering the new country will be stopped until an arrangement can be made that it will be used for peaceful purposes and all citizens of the new country are allowed equal water rations.

I’ll stop there because this spiking my joy meter at 11.

got no problem with them leaving BUT we need to open up our east coast ports asap.
way too much product comes into ports in CA with limited competition from eastern ports.

    Subotai Bahadur in reply to dmacleo. | November 12, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    Actually, the east and gulf coast ports have been expanding. The just completed enlargement of the Panama Canal [opened June 26, 2016] allows larger container ships than ever before, and which will not fit in West Coast ports. Baltimore, New York, Norfolk, Savannah, and Houston have finished or are finishing the dredging and infrastructure modifications to accept the new larger “Post-Panamax” vessels which already exist and comprise 45% of world container ship capability.

    Ports in Britain [but not mainland Europe] have also been expanded.

    The ports of Oakland, Long Beach, and Seattle have been dying for some time. [NB. I have family who were doing quite well in the port infrastructure business in Oakland, and they had to shut down their company and move to Portland a couple of years ago because the Port of Oakland functionally does not exist.] Portland can take some ships, but nothing too big. The Columbia River bar cannot be circumvented.

    Up till now, the cost of goods delivered to the middle and eastern part of the country have had to include shipping from the West coast. The shoe is on the other foot now.

      the dredging was/is a good start however the comparative lack of rail access (as in volume ability) to these ports is a huge part of “opening” up east coast ports.
      csx and ns railways have been utilizing customs ports well inland to help alleviate stress at actual ports too.

This is all very much like the talk of secession in Texas, which at least has some sort of historical foundation. It gets popular from time to time, right up to the point where somebody might have to do something.

Just like the celebrities who now say moving to Canada was a joke, they don’t have the balls to leave.

How would you calculate how much of the national debt California would have to take?

Time to get out the “You didn’t build that.” card.

Terms of succession must include paying for all previous Federal projects with inflation calculated money. All the highways built with matching funds, all the infrastructure: rail facilities, air ports, ports, and the like. Further, while they can keep the water they have already stolen, we’ll re-write the agreements on how much Colorado River water they get. Further, any additional water will be paid for at market rates, with U.S. citizens and corporations in the U.S. getting subsidies. They can lose all their Federal banking subsidies. Any pension previously guaranteed by the U.S. will lose that support, so they will be on the hook for all those state and local pensions. Since the pensioners, were presumably U.S. citizens when they were promised those pensions, even if parts leave the U.S. those pensioners will be able to file suit for missing moneys before the entity leaves the Union. Those suits will be honored to completion. If, say the City of Los Angeles thinks they can promise our citizens a pension and then get out of it by leaving the Union, the U.S. can put a lien on that new entity until the pensioner is satisfied.

The way they run themselves, they’ll go the way of Venezuela.

Well, we’ve had a parade of would-be religious utopias in the US, that did what they felt called to do, without needing the rest of us to go along.

I kinda feel for our friends from California. They shouldn’t, I think, be forced to accommodate all the stuff they disagree with that will be inflicted on them. That said, sauce for the goose…

Pragmatically, maybe we let it cut both ways. “Here’s the stuff you have to go along with to be part of “us”, and if you can’t go along, here’s how you opt out.” So, if our Californian friends want to go their own way, I’m OK with that. Let’s figure out what a divorce would look like, then we can decide if we want one.

That said, California’s hissy fit is kinda like the lovely people from downstate NY declaring that maybe they should secede, because we upstaters don’t appreciate all they do for us. OK. We’ve been trying to figure out to secede for decades, and you won’t let us. In fact, despite being not welcome in NY, said “our” governor, Proconsul Cuomo-the-Younger, you won’t let us.

You’re gonna keep us here and inflict your way on us over our objections, because you know better. Gotta keep us under your thumb, so you can do things like the SAFE Act, “passed” after Presidential Candidate in Waiting Cuomo — just like dear old dad — noticed the existence of firearms after 400 years and declared an emergency. Every single upstate county passed a resolution objecting, and it just made them gloat. Look at the Presidential election by county … same thing.

We’d be happy to let you go, California, downstate, and the rest. The problem is you can’t quit us. We kinda wish you would.

Richard Aubrey | November 12, 2016 at 7:07 pm

HellOOO, Californidiots. Does anybody know where the COLARADO River comes from….? You know. That thing with water….? Of which you have so much….

Does this mean that those States won’t come begging the rest of us for help when their volcanoes and earthquakes hit them? Washington is about due for a horrific one:

The three left coast states could join Canada. Then all the libs there would not have to move to Canada. Canada would then have a panhandle on it and any school kid who drew a map of Canada would get thrown out of school for drawing a gun

buckeyeminuteman | November 13, 2016 at 10:06 pm

Do they have a Go Fund Me account set up for this? I’d love to help out in any way I can!

Maybe if we pounded some wedges in it would snap off and slide into the ocean…

BrightlyWrought | November 14, 2016 at 4:57 am

I would be very much open to this as it would invariably turn the rest of the nation rather Conservative. It’s funny, the moment Progressives feel the notion that they might be subject to the same type of authoritarianism they would impose upon others, they become the secession crazies they’ve always laughed at Texas for being.

But there are some difficulties.

A) The Debt. They will be taking a share prorated to their population (currently would be 2.411 Trillion Dollars, given that it’s likely liberals would pour into the soon to be sovereign nation, could go higher) This would be the purchase price of the new nation ‘purchasing’ the land rights.

B) Water. SOCAL depends on the Colorado River. They will have less control and influence on the States that in turn control it’s headwaters. Too bad, so sad.. We could probably use the situation to force debt payments.