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Hillary convulsions and collapse – Pneumonia?

Hillary convulsions and collapse – Pneumonia?

Reality test.

Hillary Clinton’s wobble Sunday at the 9/11 ceremony has been the talk of the news cycle, and once her camp put out the word that she had been diagnosed with pneumonia there’s been a great deal of speculation about the likelihood of that.

Here’s a summary of the medical announcement Clinton’s doctor made:

Clinton has had an allergy-related cough for some time, and during an examination on Friday, the Democratic nominee was diagnosed with pneumonia, put on antibiotics, and told to take time out to rest. She became overheated and dehydrated during Sunday morning’s event, which led her to collapse. She’s now home in Chappaqua and on the road to recovery.

We have no way of knowing if this is true or another lie. Only a doctor who has examined Hillary Clinton and done the appropriate tests could answer that question. But let’s take a look at some possibilities.

First, it’s important to differentiate between her chronic and acute symptoms. Clinton has been observed to have had a chronic cough for some time, one that’s been exhibited during the campaign and remarked upon frequently. The thing about a symptom such as chronic cough is that it can come from a very wide variety of causes, some quite common and some rare. The causes can also be difficult to diagnose and to differentiate from each other. But if you follow that link you can see that the causes that are highest on the list are relatively innocuous: postnasal drip or asthma (which are often allergic in nature) and GERD (gastroesophageal reflux), a very common problem. One of those two reasons is certainly likely to be the culprit, just in terms of their incidence in the general population as a cause of chronic cough.

Then there are Clinton’s more acute symptoms on Sunday: the wooziness and the wobbly legs. Pneumonia plus dehydration? Certainly possible; the symptoms of dehydration include weakness, dizziness, confusion, and fainting.

Most people would probably rest if they had pneumonia, although there is a variant of the illness popularly known as “walking pneumonia,” in which people feel well enough to be out and about—at least for a while. A presidential candidate would certainly have every reason to act more energetic than he or she actually feels, especially if that person were trying to dispel persistent rumors of ill health and physical frailty. Then the illness could catch up with the candidate if the schedule is arduous.

That might easily have happened. Or it might be something much worse. With Clinton’s history of lying, the latter possibility cannot be discounted. But a fairly innocuous pneumonia is also consistent with the scenario that played out on Sunday, and Hillary’s more chronic cough symptoms could easily have been unrelated.

Pneumonia is a common illness both in its viral and bacterial forms, and occurs in all age groups although it’s most common in children under five and adults over 75. It can be relatively minor or very deadly, or almost anything in-between. It’s unclear from the announcement whether Clinton is alleged to have the viral or bacterial form, and I doubt it matters all that much in terms of the political consequences of the story. Clinton was given antibiotics, which indicates it was more likely bacterial pneumonia, and a person with bacterial pneumonia is no longer considered contagious after taking the antibiotics for a day. But it is my understanding that sometimes antibiotics are given as a preventative against a bacterial overlay even when someone has viral pneumonia.

There was a Powerline piece Sunday that quoted a doctor who has not examined Clinton but who speculates that Clinton may have aspiration pneumonia caused by a swallowing problem from a neurological disorder such as Parkinson’s:

Aspiration pneumonia occurs when fluids and food particles that normally enter the esophagus instead enter the windpipe and lungs. It is commonly seen in neurological conditions like strokes and Parkinson’s disease or similar diseases where the nerves to the swallowing mechanism are not working properly. This is especially worrisome because it is likely to recur given the underlying, usually incurable disease process and because it can be a life-threatening event.

This is pure speculation; there’s no reason to think Clinton has aspiration pneumonia, because the other types are far more common. However, even though aspiration pneumonia is not what you’d call extremely rare (about 15% of pneumonia cases in the US are of this type), either, it still does not necessarily indicate a serious problem or a neurological one. A significant number of cases of aspiration pneumonia occur in normal people who do not have any neurological impairment whatsoever:

Aspiration pneumonia can also be associated with esophageal disorders, anesthesia, and dental problems that interfere with chewing or swallowing. Sometimes, the swallowing muscles can become weak with age or inactivity, for example, a patient who is on mechanical ventilation for several days or longer. Aspiration can occur in these situations as well. Finally, persons with normal swallowing and a normal gag reflex can aspirate and develop pneumonia if their food or drink simply “goes down the wrong way.”

We can all agree that Clinton isn’t on a respirator. But she certainly could have an esophageal disorder, which could also account for her chronic cough. Ten to twenty percent of people with GERD (and GERD is very common) have aspiration, and some of these cases go on to become aspiration pneumonia.

We may find out a bit more, because Hillary’s spokesman Brian Fallon has announced that her campaign would release more medical records this week. I doubt that the release will clear up the speculation as to what’s really going on, even if a diagnosis of pneumonia is revealed. There is too much reason to distrust that Clinton is telling the whole story, even if she finally does appear to come clean in this particular situation.

[Neo-neocon is a writer with degrees in law and family therapy, who blogs at neo-neocon.]


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legacyrepublican | September 14, 2016 at 10:38 am

I frequently get pneumonia every winter because of allergies.

But, if I had a team of doctors at my side with the right equipment when I needed it, I wouldn’t. She has that team.

Something else is wrong with her.

    Agreed. And that team has been following her on the campaign trail for some time. They have been waiting for episodes (like Hillary’s zoning out during a speech, when Mr. Big Black Guy put a reassuring hand on her, and coached her to continue talking) to be on the scene when the occur. One of those attendants (who has been variously described as a nurse or possibly her personal physician) performed a neurological test (the “squeeze my hand” test – a test given when a neurological problem is suspected – and why suspect such a problem?) on her just before she collapsed.

    If Hillary had been diagnosed two days before, her handlers would have canceled her appearance at the ceremony for fear of her having just such a public episode that would have stoked the rumors about her health – a legitimate illness would become fodder for the claims that she’s chronically ill. They would have devised a cover story for her absence that wouldn’t have had anything to do with her health (lying, as usual).

    But because she IS chronically ill, her handlers must put her out in public where disaster can strike. It’s a gamble they have to take because she’s running for the presidency and she has to be seen in public at least occasionally. On Sunday, they rolled the dice and lost. Every thing after that has been spin.

JackRussellTerrierist | September 14, 2016 at 10:44 am

Hillary is lying, as usual, and so is her private doctor who probably only has one patient.

Hillary travels with a phalanx of well-equipped medical providers and has for quite some time – as in years, not months.

If she has pneumonia, she’s set the world record for length of illness.

    A really long case! Last Friday they said she had pneumonia, but here is a time line of coughing fits, 9 months !

    Actually she does have a form of pneumonia. She has aspiration pneumonia secondary to chronic aspiration. That is why she has the severe coughing fits. This all ties into the fact that she has a chronic brain disease. Recall that she can’t remember her duties as head of state. That ties in with her syncope and seizure activity. She also wears an appliance on her right leg for foot drop. She had a venous thrombosis and that likely significantly harmed her. Note that her speeches are nothing but condemnation of Trump with zero policy information. Her meds all support the dx of chronic brain disease.

The reason neo-neocon has to blog 13 paragraphs about this story is that the story stinks.

Hillary Clinton is a pathological liar who lies about things even when not necessary and covers up things (like the Wall St speeches) that don’t need to be covered up.

The reason to think that Hillary has aspirational pneumonia is that Hillary Clinton returned from her collapse and posed hugging a little girl. If she had a highly contagious form of pneumonia then that photo-op was a highly reckless endangering of the girl’s health. Is Hillary Clinton so evil as to expose a little girl to pneumonia for such a photo op?

Here’s one of the latest Internet conspiracy theories:

Hillary Clinton had her concussion in Dec 2012. Chelsea Clinton bought her apartment in early 2013 for $10 million, a sum which is seemingly out of her price range given her husband’s financial difficulties. Her apartment is 0.4 miles from the Hospital where Hillary was treated. The conspiracy theory is that Chelsea’s apartment isn’t actually an apartment (or just an apartment), but is the location of a private Hospital/Clinic set up do that Hillary can get medical treatment outside of the public eye. So when Hillary was taken to her daughter’s apartment after a seemingly serious medical injury (that seemed to require an ER visit), that wasn’t reckless but was actually a place where she could get treated.

Rush repeated that conspiracy theory on the air the other day.

Who knows what the truth is? With the Clintons, lies are built on top of other lies so deep that it’s impossible for anybody to tell.

All of this speculation could be ended and the siege of Fortress Hillary called off, and it could be done easily.

But they won’t do it. And there’s a reason for that.

That reason ain’t “walking pneumonia”.

This is so sexist.

No one complained when Kennedy and Roosevelt lied and covered up their health problems. And don’t get me started on Wilson.


    Petrushka in reply to clintack. | September 14, 2016 at 11:01 am

    Don’t forget Harrison.

      tom swift in reply to Petrushka. | September 14, 2016 at 11:08 am

      There wasn’t a big cover-up for Harrison.

      The big scandal after his death was the fight over whether VP Tyler was the President or merely the “acting President”—a question which had never arisen before.

        Petrushka in reply to tom swift. | September 14, 2016 at 2:19 pm

        I wasn’t suggesting there was a Harrison cover-up.
        It’s just that he died of pneumonia at age 68.

        Reason, I think, to take Hillary’s illness seriously.

I have had severe pneumonia, and I have observed two people with Parkinson’s close up. Pneumonia does not cause body rigidity, followed by collapse. That looks like Parkinson’s. Although she was surrounded by others, there is enough video from enough angles to suggest seizure rather than faint.

She has a history of incidents going back several years (falls, sudden loss of her footing) that, taken together, also suggest Parkinson’s episodes.

Parkinson’s is miserable and I would not wish it on anybody.

I do not necessarily consider the disease to be disqualifying.

Hillary’s long-standing lack of concern for the little people, her repeated instances of mendacity, and her active participation in the DNC campaign to promote violence against American voters, in my opinion, each demonstrate disqualifying character flaws.

In addition, her failure to appreciate her role in budgetary considerations and in provision of security for our people during her term as Secretary of State, both suggest a failure of competency and responsibility. Anybody else would be in jail, by now.

Finally, the very questionable entanglement between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department during her tenure as Secretary of State presents more than the mere appearance of impropriety. In this, she reminds me of President Nixon’s famous quote (or misquote): “If the President does it, that means it’s not illegal.” Nixon was shockingly wrong, and so isHillary.

    jack burns in reply to Valerie. | September 14, 2016 at 1:14 pm

    You don’t consider Parkinson’s to be disqualifying? Neuropsychiatric complications are a well known feature of the disease and its treatments. Parkinson’s may be jumping ahead though. Syncope due to heart problems is bad enough.

    lilred99 in reply to Valerie. | September 14, 2016 at 4:49 pm

    That was my thought, her body looked rigid. Not like when a person faints & goes limp. She looked like her muscles contracted in seizures.

    DaveGinOly in reply to Valerie. | September 14, 2016 at 11:23 pm

    Another reason to disqualify Hillary – She continues to insist that there was nothing inappropriate about her relationship with the Clinton Foundation during her tenure as SoS. Even if that’s true, she doesn’t understand (or is lying about not understanding) that the problem isn’t just actual impropriety, it’s the appearance of impropriety that must be avoided by all public officials.

Watch her attempt to start taking that first step with the right leg. There a some slight quivers/spasms in the leg which typically are not associated with fainting/heat stroke. The subsequent collapsing is consistent with fainting, heat stroke, etc, But that initial start of the first step indicates that something else is wrong.

    You need to look closer at the video. If you have the ability, zoom in on her right foot. She doesn’t take a step at all. She is picked up off her feet and her right foot drags at the toe across the ground, causing her leg to quiver a bit.

    Then, when they get her to the van, there is a split-second of indecision on the part of the staff as to how to get her situated in the van from the way they are holding her without making it obvious that she’s not under her own power, and they almost drop her while trying not to hit her head on the van ceiling (hence, the “collapse” meme in the press, because they’ve not taken the time to try to actually analyze the bio-mechanics of what was happening, merely see her nearly drop, and assume it’s her “collapsing”).

      Joe-dallas in reply to Chuck Skinner. | September 14, 2016 at 11:07 pm

      Chuck ” If you have the ability, zoom in on her right foot. She doesn’t take a step at all. She is picked up off her feet and her right foot drags at the toe across the ground, causing her leg to quiver a bit.”

      True _ I agree with your observation. My comment was directed at the initial attempt to take that first step. The first 1/2 second when she leaves the concrete barricade. You will notice in the video, that she attempts to take that first step with her right leg (oddly attempting to take that first under her own power) which was about 1/3 of a second before the male caught her on her right side. In that short period the muscles in the leg didnt “fire up” and instead worked behaved similar to someone with ms or parkinsons.

Can we stop with the logical fallacies?
Just because asphyxiation pneumonia is rare out of all the cases pneumonia ( and 10% is not that rare ), does not mean that it is unlikely she has asphyxiation pneumonia.

That is like saying that people going to doctor complaining about frequent urination rarely have diabetes, so that when a particular patient shows up complaining about frequent urination it’s not likely they have diabetes. When you add that they are also thirsty all the time and are losing weight, suddenly diabetes becomes a lot more probable.

Or arguing that because one in ten appeals are successful the appeals in this particular case are likely to be unsuccessful.

This is not a poker game where the next card up depends very little on the cards already dealt. Symptoms are taken as a whole. In this case we just don’t know what all the symptoms are: Except to say that they are lying about some symptoms, because the probability of Hillary lying are high.

    clintack in reply to RodFC. | September 14, 2016 at 12:16 pm

    It’s *aspiration* pneumonia.

    Asphyxiation is something completely different.

    tom swift in reply to RodFC. | September 14, 2016 at 12:50 pm

    In this case we just don’t know what all the symptoms are: Except to say that they are lying about some symptoms, because the probability of Hillary lying are high.

    We can’t diagnose it, even if qualified, as there isn’t enough info available. But we don’t need to know exactly what it is; all we need to know for the purposes of this election is that she has what look like serious problems, and that they won’t admit it. We know this because we can see it; and they know we can see it and have noticed it, and they’re still lying about it.

    They should have claimed that her problem was some exotic tropical disease most of us have never heard of. But they picked something rather prosaic, something with symptoms known to tens of millions of Americans … Americans who have a pretty good idea of what pneumonia is, and, more importantly, what it isn’t.

    So the lying game is over; they lost. They’ll keep at it, obviously, and the worse the problem really is, the harder they’ll try to continue the pretense.

Add my theory again. Right before she went all wobbly she stopped coughing in public. Codeine stops coughing. It can also cause imbalance.I’m guessing she had to do something to stop the coughing fits because it was causing a stir so she loaded up on the cough suppressant before appearances.

First of all, borrowing from a French King, Hillary IS the Democrat Party and the Democrat Party IS Hillary while the monarch lives. As for Trump? Not so much.

The late Dr. Robert Williams, world famous endocrinologist and an astute diagnostician, was a good ‘ole Southern boy with his take on the “sniff test”. His was the “bird dog sniff” where the hunting dog must relentlessly pursue the game after that first whiff of scent. What we are seeing is “optics” but from that observations can be made. There are too many bits and pieces of diagnostic “scent” to not know more (major problems) are being hidden. All we see are symptoms and manifestations of the underlying disease processes. All of them add up to something worse.

That being said, the prize for the election is too great to let the major health failings of one figurehead get in the way. The truth is that the Party will continue to lie, deceive and cover up any and everything to WIN.

    DaveGinOly in reply to alaskabob. | September 15, 2016 at 1:11 am

    Remember “America’s Funniest Home Videos”? Not the third season cute kids and animals – the first two seasons of videos of people nearly killing themselves – you know, the really funny videos. What struck me is that what we saw on TV was a fraction of the videos of people doing idiotic things that were submitted to the show. And those were a small fraction of all the videos taken of idiotic actions. And the idiotic antics that were actually videoed were a small fraction of all idiotic antics. It struck me that the number of idiotic antics that people get up to must be substantial! (Made me wonder why more people aren’t killed by their own stupidity.)

    This is what we’re seeing with Hillary – only the symptoms/episodes that are captured on video. We are seeing only a small fraction of them, because Hillary is only videoed for a very small fraction her day (and her exposure has been very limited, as has been noted). We are seeing the tip of the iceberg.

    (Right about now the troll who has been down-voting every comment, no matter how factual or innocuous, will be doing the same to this one.)

So what is actually know? She has “spells” that look like gaps on normal consciousness, e.g. the strange baby-looking-at-balloons deal at the convention. She’s had at least one concussion, she’s on a blood thinner, she’s on high octane thyroid replacement. The reason for her hypothyroidism matters since something like Hashimoto’s often co-occurs with other autoimmune diseases. Blood thinners are common as dirt for arrhythmias. Bottom line this character is constitutionally unfit to serve in any office, much less the highest one. Her sloppy management of State would have been enough for honest people to drop her but we’re dealing with liberals here. She’ll return, put on a show, and crash again. Count on it.

    Joe-dallas in reply to jack burns. | September 14, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    “Her sloppy management of State would have been enough for honest people to drop her but we’re dealing with liberals here.”

    Ditto – well stated

    Geologist in reply to jack burns. | September 14, 2016 at 4:46 pm

    Jack, you assert that “Bottom line this character is constitutionally unfit to serve in any office, much less the highest one.” You and many others seem to NOT understand the qualifications for this Office:

    US Constitution, Article II, Section 1:
    “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.”

    There is nothing in the Constitution that says that to be eligible for the office of the President, you cannot be a lying sack of shit, or you have to have certain medical qualifications, or you cannot be a blowhard braggart. All of these claims that Clinton and/or Trump are not qualified to be President are pure bullshit! They are both natural born citizens, over 35 years old and residents of the US for over 14 years. Oh, and neither has been president for two terms (or more).

    Please lets stop with the “constitutionally unfit” and “not qualified” crap!

      jack burns in reply to Geologist. | September 14, 2016 at 5:25 pm

      I assume that being able to stay conscious under even slight duress or understand or remember simple codes on emails might make a person “constitutionally unfit”. She doesn’t need to be able to dunk from a standing position, but being able to walk without dropping is a plus. If she needs to do an FDR and get into a Rascal Scooter, fine, just cop to it. I didn’t say anything about Trump’s fitness by the way. He seems to be getting around just fine.

      Arminius in reply to Geologist. | September 14, 2016 at 10:50 pm

      Uhh, Geologist, try to read carefully. Jack Burns said she is constitutionally unfit to serve as President. He never said she was ineligible.

      I take it you’re entirely unaware of the 25th Amendment to the Constitution? Pay particular to section four.

      Jack is entirely correct. A physical or mental disability so severe that an individual can’t discharge the duties of the office does make an individual constitutionally unfit to serve as President. This amendment was passed because of the situation with Woodrow Wilson, who had a debilitating stroke, and then his wife and doctor wouldn’t allow anyone to have contact with him (especially his VP) and governed in his stead without any authority whatsoever.

      And that’s something to keep in mind because once Hillary’s “co-president” Billy Jeff is back in the White House he’s more likely than not to pull the same stunt. 25th Amendment be damned.

I have never had pneumonia but I know people who have. I cannot imagine that if they had looked as bad as hillary looked waiting for her van that they would only need 90 minutes to “Fully” recover from something that debilitating. Even if she drank a gallon of water and had IV’s she would not have recovered that fast. This has to be caused by the effects of a powerful drug that she normally uses wearing off. She then gets a new dose and the effects are very obvious. If this was anyone else in the universe, we would accept her story at face value. But since it is the congenital liar that we all know, we don’t believe her for one single moment.

Any doctor she has has zero motivation to tell the truth and every motivation to lie (as he is essentially employed by her campaign).

There is nothing in the Hippocratic oath or in HIPAA laws that require the doctor to tell the truth when disclosing medical information to the public. If it were sworn testimony, that’d be a different story. However, he is only allowed to release what Hillary and her campaign deem he can release, and he doesn’t even have to be truthful in that release so long as her campaign is happy with what is said.

    Even sworn testimony doesn’t overcome doctor-patient confidentiality. Not without a signed release by the patient or his/her representative, and possibly not even then.

    Given that, it’s perfectly reasonable to assume any “medical foreclosure” that comes from her camp — and especially from her doctor — is a major down-playing of symptoms or an outright lie.

    (Tangentially, who is this spokesperson Hillary’s camp claims is a doctor? Has anyone checked his licenses and credentials? Or are we expected to take that at face value as well?)

      gospace in reply to Archer. | September 14, 2016 at 9:18 pm

      Sworn testimony doesn’t overcome doctor-patient confidentiality? Not always, not completely. For example, all gunshot wounds must be reported to the local authorities. Whether or not the patient wished them to be revealed. There are other exceptions. The doctor-patient confidentiality isn’t near as absolute under U.S. law as the priest-confessor confidentiality.

      However, neither priests nor doctors are permitted to lie under oath.

      DaveGinOly in reply to Archer. | September 15, 2016 at 1:18 am

      Generally, you’re correct. But to protect confidentiality, a doctor would stand on it and refuse to give any testimony. However, any testimony (meaning statements made under oath) given would have to be the truth. The doctor couldn’t testify, “My patient is fine,” if that wasn’t true, and then defend him or herself from penalties by saying “I lied because of doctor-patient confidentiality.”

4th armored div | September 14, 2016 at 2:03 pm

an 83 year old friend had ‘mysterious’ ailments that were diagnosed as pneumonia. 2 weeks later DOA (RIP friend).

HRC is an evil troll, chasing after the POTUS since Bill the rapist was POTUS.


Notice all the down votes in the comments – Must be someone gullible enough to believe the original talking point that it was overheating on a 75-78 degree mid morning day with a 7-8 mph NW wind.

    Or a couple of Hillary TROLLS. They’ve been known to fly-by the stories, and Legal Insurrection has a high enough profile that occasionally the Proglodytes come in, down-vote everybody, stir up trouble and then try to watch the chaos that ensues.

    DaveGinOly in reply to Joe-dallas. | September 15, 2016 at 1:23 am

    No healthy person becomes ill from exposure to 78 degree temps, nor becomes dehydrated by merely standing still for a few minutes. If the heat actually got to her, it’s because she’s in such a condition that she is unable to tolerate minimum exposure to environmental conditions that most people consider normal.

“This is pure speculation; there’s no reason to think Clinton has aspiration pneumonia”

This is false. There is evidence (admittedly not proof) that Hillary has Parkinson’s. This would greatly increase the possibility of aspiration pneumonia.

If you don’t believe the Parkinson’s theory, then say so. Don’t make some obviously wrong assertion as if the theory doesn’t even exist. It comes off as dogmatic, bombastic and rude, all at once.

“Hillary Clinton’s wobble Sunday at the 9/11 ceremony…”

Wobble? That was no wobble. Hillary Clinton likes to talk about powering through? If her security detail and campaign entourage hadn’t been there to catch her she would have powered her head through the pavement, which is apparently what happened in 2012 when she gave herself a major concussion.

If you watch the video she’s not moving normally. In fact, she looks like a statue. She would have been unable to protect her head in a fall, as she has not been on previous occasions. One of the NYPD officers on the scene later commented that they threw her in the van “like a side of beef.”

Pneumonia doesn’t do this to you. Neither does dehydration, nor allergies. But Parkinson’s will. It’s called a Parkinson’s freeze. I’m not saying this is the case, but if she were experiencing a Parkinson’s freeze that’s exactly what they would have had to do because the Secret Service can’t let a protectee stay in one spot for too long due to the risk of assassination. That’s why protectees have protective details.

Jack Burns upthread mentioned “spells” in which she appears to lose consciousness. In a Parkinson’s freeze a person doesn’t lose consciousness but they do lose motor function. I saw an interesting video of one of those “spells.” Hillary froze, and one of her aides walked up to the podium and started rubbing her back (and was clearly in a position to support her if she fell). He said in a quiet voice “It’s alright, we’re here.” When she came out of her “spell” she repeated those words almost verbatim to the assembled audience.

This, too, is consistent with a Parkinson’s disease. Parkinson’s patients coming out of a freeze are confused (remember the Huma Abedin email in which she described Clinton as “often confused,” another symptom that can’t be explained by pneumonia, dehydration, or allergies). So as a result, and in an effort to get the brain working again, they repeat the last thing they heard in their freeze. It was also long before her doctor diagnosed her with Pneumonia. And she was indoors in an air conditioned building, so we can write off dehydration.

As a matter of fact, we can write off dehydration entirely. Any outdoorsman or athlete knows that there are only two ways that a healthy person can become dehydrated. 1) don’t drink enough water. 2) lose water (this is why wrestlers and boxers work out wearing plastic suits in saunas if they’re afraid they won’t make weight, and I don’t recommend it). But Clinton isn’t perspiring at all when she leaves that 9/11 event. Which puts the lie to her original “overheated” excuse. Hot people sweat. Hot people on the verge of fainting sweat profusely. Clinton is not.

You have to be something of a Kremlinologist to figure out what’s the truth the Clinton’s are hiding. Their evolving explanations never jibe with the visual, documentary, or whatever evidence. When a Clinton gives me the choice, “Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes” I’m going with my “lying” eyes everytime. Observers don’t always fully understand what it is they’re observing, but your eyes don’t lie to you and a Clinton will every time.

Back during the cold war, and I presume the practice is ongoing, the CIA would consult with specialists in the medical fields and psychology to help determine what exactly was going on with the geriatrics in the Politburo. Because they knew the official explanation was a lie. The goal was never to diagnose someone from afar but simply to come up with an explanation consistent with the evidence.

Clinton vs. Clinton on whether she likes to drink water.
“FLASHBACK: In 2008 Hillary Clinton Said ‘I drink tons of water'”

Now the campaign is spreading rumors that it’s becoming a major source of friction because Hillary is apparently refusing everybody’s advice and simply won’t drink enough water. Is this believable? Sanity and reason tell us that anyone running for Commander in Chief would want to appear strong and capable enough to do the job. Strong and capable does not describe how she looked on Sunday.

As inspectorudy says she could have drunk a gallon of water and had IVs and she could not have recovered that quickly. In fact, if she was that debilitated by dehydration and pneumonia, taking her to an apartment instead of an emergency room would have been malpractice.

But she would recover that fast if she was being treated for Parkinson’s and simply needed her meds.

Basically I don’t believe a word coming out of her campaign. They’re saying she just has some major aversion to water (is she hydrophic, i.e. rabid?). Has she grown stupider in the past 8 years? In her early 60s she knew that to keep up the pace on the campaign trail she had to drink “tons of water” to avoid dehydration. Now apparently she just doesn’t know that anymore.

That just doesn’t pass the smell test. None of the lies from the Clinton campaign are consistent with the evidence that is right before our eyes. Parkinson’s disease is consistent with the evidence. Parkinson’s is also progressive. In 2008 she could have more easily hid the symptoms now eight years on it’s almost impossible. So she needs to manufacture an alibi, so to speak, hence this new aversion to water concocted out of thin air.

Parkinson’s would explain what we are seeing, and the results of what we haven’t seen directly. Such as that major concussion she suffered which required a month of hospitalization.

I’m not claiming that is definitely what she has. But her past lies have been either entirely debunked or are clearly inadequate to explain what’s right in front of our “lying” eyes.

    willow in reply to Arminius. | September 14, 2016 at 6:45 pm

    Excellent analysis. There is too much that cannot be ignored. If there is a charade going on to cover a serious medical condition, I don’t see how it can last for an extended period.

    Now the campaign is spreading rumors that it’s becoming a major source of friction because Hillary is apparently refusing everybody’s advice and simply won’t drink enough water. Is this believable?

    Maybe. She will be 69 next month. It’s quite possible that she’s afraid of a certain amount of incontinence. She doesn’t drink as much water, she doesn’t have to pee as often.

    Parkinson’s disease is consistent with the evidence. Parkinson’s is also progressive. …

    Parkinson’s would explain what we are seeing, and the results of what we haven’t seen directly. Such as that major concussion she suffered which required a month of hospitalization.

    I concur. Parkinson’s neatly fits the symptoms we are seeing from a differential diagnosis standpoint, and explains much of the degradation we have seen over the past 36-48 months.

    Parkinson’s explains the coughing (saliva drip due to loss of swallowing control), the falls (loss of motor control), the odd behavior when startled (see post-speech balloon drop, freezes during speeches, odd responses to shouted unexpected questions, odd head-jerking movements that she tries to pass off as being silly), the muscle tremors, the odd positioning of her hands when she’s not actively using them, and the mental degradation/confusion.

I have read articles recently that discuss her staff’s concerns that she refuses to drink enough water. This could be due to fear of aspiration from a swallowing disorder, a possible symptom of Parkinson’s. Just sayin…

    Arminius in reply to phdwyphe. | September 14, 2016 at 5:08 pm

    True. She might really have drunk “tons of water” when she was on the campaign trail in 2008 but she’s afraid to do so now.

    Again, this isn’t mere speculation. It’s Kremlinology, which we are forced into because the Clintons have lied to us over just about everything in the past, and they’re clearly lying now.

    Did you catch that Freudian slip Billy Jeff made when he was talking to Charlie Rose. He said “frequently” and then quickly changed to “rarely” when discussing these episodes of Hillary’s. And CBS dutifully edited out “frequently.”

    Sometimes even the Clintons almost let the cat out of the bag. They’ve been lying their entire public lives and they’re not really good at. But then with a sycophantic press they’ve never had to get got at it.

I see some Clinton supporter is going around giving a thumb’s down to anyone engaging in informed observation. Which is how Parkinson’s disease is diagnosed, by the way, as Dr. Noel mentions in this video in which he explains how to prove him wrong.

We know we’re being lied to by the Clinton campaign. They would love to convince us that Clinton has simply suffered a series of unfortunate, unconnected medical episodes, all of which are or have been temporary conditions. Which is complete BS. Clinton started taking long breaks from the campaign trail back in August. So her doctor’s recommendation following her diagnosis that Clinton has pneumonia to cut back on her schedule and get more rest is not a new recommendation.

Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is the most likely explanation. Whether the Clintonistas want to hear or not, Parkinson’s disease is the one explanation that accounts for all her symptoms. For instance the chronic coughing. If disease, and if she has trouble swallowing, then she would be coughing should she aspirate her own saliva into her lungs. That would naturally prompt her body to cough to rid her lungs of it. If she does it enough, if it’s a chronic condition, that would easily lead to aspiration pneumonia.

I’m not just taking this guy’s word for who he is, and how he’s arriving at his conclusions. But everything he says is perfectly in line with what, say, the Mayo Clinic says. Dr. Noel says there are not tests for Parkinson’s disease, and the Mayo clinic says exactly the same thing. There are no “objective tests” for Parkinson’s. One of the things a Dr. may try is to simply see if patient responds to Parkinson’s medication. If so, that’s a strong indicator that the individual has Parkinson’s.

But really the only way to come to a conclusion that someone is suffering from Parkinson’s disease is through observation. And any medical doctor can do that just from the public record. Dr. Noel is doing just that. And he stresses that he’s not making a diagnosis. He’s simply making an interim conclusion based on the available information, as he makes clear in the video.

Even a layman can look at the videos and see that Clinton’s and campaign’s excuses are outright lies (they’re not even internally consistent; one excuse after the other contradicts the last) and entirely inadequate.

Just to pile and, I’m not saying this is dispositive, but when Clinton claimed that among her 30,000 deleted “personal” emails were emails about yoga, Chelsea’s wedding, condolences when her mother died, and emails to Bill. Well, Clinton later came out and said he doesn’t use email so we know that’s not true. But there must have been untold thousands of emails about yoga, which seemed to be the first thing that came to her mind. And I thought that was strange. But according to the Mayo clinic yoga is one of the top-rated alternative therapies for Parkinson’s patients.

And then we find that PRN used bleachbit to make those personal emails unrecoverable through forensic analysis. Nobody does that.

If she does have Parkinson’s that would explain why she would go through all that trouble to get rid of yoga emails. Nobody does that except Hillary Clinton.

    jack burns in reply to Arminius. | September 14, 2016 at 5:21 pm

    Right, but I’m sure that Mayo clinic wouldn’t diagnose Parkinson’s without at least a basic neurological workup and not a series of cell phone videos. Remote diagnosis via internet is a goofy exercise given how complex these illnesses are. I’d rather error on the side of being conservative. All I care about at the end of the day is that she’s out of commission.

      Arminius in reply to jack burns. | September 14, 2016 at 5:57 pm

      Actually, that’s not quite correct. The doctor would run those tests and more to rule out other conditions that can be detected by them. But there is no test for Parkinson’s disease.

      A doctor can really only diagnoses Parkinson’s through observation.

      But that’s neither here nor there. I am acting conservatively. And this isn’t just some goofy exercise. This is precisely what intel agencies do when trying to get a look into countries that are “black boxes” and where transfer of power from one leader to the next are not always peaceful. I mentioned Kremlinology. But then, it would also apply to countries like North Korea.

      Don’t you know the exact same thing was going on when Kim Jong Il was clearly failing? ou can’t go by what you see on official North Korean TV or in their press. Like with the Clinton campaign, you can’t go by the lies you read in their official press releases. You have consultants, such as medical experts, who can tell you why the official explanation is unbelievable, and what alternate explanations comport with the available evidence.

      That’s all this doctor is saying. That’s all I am saying. The Clinton campaign’s official lies don’t comport with the available evidence. But Parkinson’s disease would explain what we see in the videos. Which would be the only thing we’d have to go on if it were a foreign leader.

      This isn’t a diagnosis. It’s simply the most plausible explanation.

        jack burns in reply to Arminius. | September 14, 2016 at 6:34 pm

        I didn’t mean to sound dismissive with the ‘goofy’ reference but I’m losing patience with opinions that are in love with one remote diagnosis or another. When I refer to neurological tests I mean the fundamental hands on things neurologists do to measure your baseline functions and yes, most of these are observational, but they’re not done casually or over the internet.

        Her crew did release some medical info today. She takes thyroid hormone for hypothyroidism and warfarin, presumably for deep vein thrombosis. What they don’t say says a lot, as usual. They don’t give the reason for her hypothyroidism. Its usually due to autoimmune thyroid disease and those diseases often co-occur with other reasons for thrombosis such as antiphospholipid syndrome, another indication for taking warfarin. Co-morbities of antiphospholipid syndrome can include major autoimmune disorders like Lupus, neurological presentations or even seizures. Per the wiki page for warfarin, its not the easiest or even most effective blood thinner out there to take, and it requires monitoring. Its only advantage seems to be that its cheap and we know how broke Grandma is. There is some reason she’s on that one.They don’t give the root cause for her hypothyroidism. Its usually due to autoimmune thyroid disease and those diseases often co-occur with antiphospholipid syndrome, a reason to take warfarin. Co-morbities of antiphospholipid syndrome can include major autoimmune disorders like Lupus, neurological presentations or even seizures. Per the wiki page for warfarin, its not the easiest or even most effective blood thinner out there to take, and it requires monitoring. Its only advantage seems to be that its cheap and we know how broke Grandma is. There is some reason she’s on that one.

        Time will sort this out, and soon since she’ll be under a microscope.

          There’s lots of reasons for hypothyroidism. A lot of them are auto-immune disorders, but by no means all of them. Sometimes the thyroid only needs a bit of help, and other times it needs full-on replacement of it’s entire function. Sometimes its simply genetics or age as the body starts to slow down. At Sec. Clinton’s age, at least 1 in 6 women has a thyroid hormonal problem simply from age.

          As for using warfarin vs other blood thinners, there’s lots of reasons for that choice which may or may not be applicable. One of them might be that is what her doctor is comfortable with. Or Sec. Clinton may have an adverse reaction to the other drugs. Or they may not want to rock the boat and risk CAUSING an episode during the change over from one drug to another.

          Arminius in reply to jack burns. | September 14, 2016 at 9:51 pm

          I’m not in love with any particular diagnosis. I simply can’t believe the campaign’s attempts to downplay this as “overheating” or “dehydration.”

          I may be a layman but I know perspiration when I see it. “Overheated” people, especially if they are so overheated they feel faint, sweat profusely. I’ve looked at a lot of pictures from the 9/11 memorial, some fairly close up, and she shows no sign of perspiring. Neither does anyone around her, who aren’t complaining of “overheating.” Only if it’s so severe the heat injury becomes heat stroke does the individual stop sweating, and heat stroke is a medical emergency. You don’t just go to your daughters apartment, drink a few glasses of water, then walk out 90 minutes later for photo ops.

          If she’s not losing water, the only other explanation for becoming dehydrated is not taking enough water in. But, if we are to take Clinton’s story at face value, she knows if she becomes dehydrated she may faint why would she refuse to drink water? No normally sane human being would make that choice, especially someone trying to look healthy enough and show enough stamina to be a viable choice for President.

          There are the observable facts, on one hand, and these laughable explanations on the other. I’m not married to any particular diagnosis, though. I never said I had made a diagnosis. I have said that since I know that since can’t expect to get the truth from her or her minions, then the only reasonable thing do is arrive at our own, more plausible explanations based upon whatever evidence is available.

          It’s here own damned fault for bringing this on herself. Americans shouldn’t have to resort to old-fashioned, cold war Kremlinology to divine the truth. But, hey, we’re talking about a Clinton. You got to work with what you have.

      DaveGinOly in reply to jack burns. | September 15, 2016 at 1:47 am

      Point of order here – People are trying to determine, from observation alone, what illness she may have. That is speculation – even if informed by the observations. Observation alone may be insufficient to determine what ails Hillary, but it is sufficient to determine that she is ill, and probably seriously so, and ill with something the presents the symptoms that we’ve been able to observe. (And, as I remarked above in another comment, we’re only observing a very small fraction of her daily life – the part on camera – so we’re only seeing a very small fraction of the total number of episodes she must be having.)