The tough choice facing GOP politicians who criticized Trump
Trump or no-Trump?
Ever since it became obvious that Trump would win the GOP nomination (and even before that), we’ve had the phenomenon of GOP officeholders and/or former rival candidates jumping on the Trump train. Ben Carson was one of the first, but he certainly isn’t the last, and the list includes people whose previous criticism of Trump had been remarkably bitter.
The latest to support Trump is Marco Rubio, and many people are excoriating him for it (for example, see this from Allahpundit and this by Philip Klein; there are others). Here’s an excerpt from the Klein piece, so you can get the flavor of it:
It’s one thing to begrudgingly argue that as dangerous as he thinks a Trump presidency would be, that he thinks a Clinton presidency would be even worse. But to actually say that he would be “honored” by the chance to speak on Trump’s behalf at the GOP convention, and to downplay his previously stated problems with Trump as mere “policy differences,” is to prove the Rubio skeptics right.
That is, far from being an inspirational moral leader, Rubio has shown himself to be more of an opportunistic politician with his finger to the wind.
Well, even if true, that would make Rubio resemble around 99.99999% of the people who run for office. But actually, like the rest of us ordinary voters who were not originally for either Trump or Hillary (and that’s a lot of us), most GOP officeholders and former officeholders face the “Hillary or Trump” dilemma. In fact, politicians on the right face a much more intense version of it, with no good solution for those who once criticized Trump. Failing to support Trump now opens them up to the charge of betraying the GOP and/or the right in the general election, whereas supporting him (if they previously criticized him) makes them vulnerable to accusations of hypocrisy.
So there’s is no good way out for Rubio (whom the GOP might need to run in Florida in order to have a chance of preserving their Senate majority)—none. He has even more reason than, for example, Rick Perry or Bobby Jindal (both of whom endorsed Trump after excoriating him, with Perry even saying he’d be willing to be his VP) to moderate his previous stance on Trump.
Personally, I don’t harshly judge anyone who supports Trump at this point, now that Trump the nominee is virtually a fait accompli. Nor do I harshly judge anyone who does not support him. Both groups have my sympathy—and my understanding, because of my own struggles with the issue. And I’m tired of people expecting a rectitude (and a degree of martyrdom) from politicians that is completely unrealistic.
Let’s take a look at what Rubio actually said rather than paraphrases of it [emphasis mine]:
“Yeah, my sense is I’m gonna go to the convention,” Rubio said. “And I don’t know if I’ll have a role in the convention, but I have a lot of people going there that are supporters.”
“Yeah,” Rubio responded when asked if he would speak on Trump’s behalf at the convention. “I wanna be helpful. I don’t wanna be harmful because I don’t want Hillary Clinton to be president.”…
“Look, my policy differences with Donald Trump — I spent 11 months talking about them so I think they’re well understood. That said, I don’t want Hillary Clinton to be president,” he continued. “If there’s something I can do to help that from happening and it’s helpful to the cause, I most certainly would be honored to be considered for that.”
He also said he would release his delegates, though his campaign “basically, technically” has already done so, he explained, “because Donald is gonna have a majority number and at that point it’ll be irrelevant.”
“So, if we haven’t done so already, we will,” he said.
Despite how far he’s willing to go to support the billionaire, it stops at joining his ticket. “In my view, that wouldn’t be the right choice for him,” Rubio said of being chosen as Trump’s running mate. “He’s earned the nomination and deserves to have a running mate that more fully embraces the things he stands for.”
What does Klein (or other critics) expect Rubio to do, repeat his charge that Trump is a con man at the same time that he says he’s nevertheless going to support him? That would seem absurd. Rubio certainly doesn’t seem to be taking back any of his original criticisms of Trump, nor does he praise Trump as a fine man and a wonderful candidate, as people ordinarily do when they support someone.
And no, Rubio did not say he’d be honored to speak on behalf of Trump (unless I missed something; I can’t find a full text of Rubio’s Tapper interview). He said he’d be honored to speak in furtherance of the cause of stopping Hillary Clinton from becoming president. Take a look once again:
“I don’t want Hillary Clinton to be president,” Rubio continued. “If there’s something I can do to help that from happening and it’s helpful to the cause, I most certainly would be honored to be considered for that.”
Pretty explicit, pretty clear. It’s to stop Hillary. Period.
[Neo-neocon is a writer with degrees in law and family therapy, who blogs at neo-neocon.]
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Comments
Rick Perry is dead to me.
Yeah, lots of unregistered from the GOP over the years. Stopped manning phone banks, going door to door, donating money. Personally I’m registered IND and free to boost Bernie for the primary.
The GOP is currently being reconfigured on the fly and it’s messy.
The jury’s still out IMO….
Rick Perry is no doubt on suicide watch, lmao. Upon receiving the news, Perry was heard to proclaim, “Rabidwhat? Who the hell is that?”
And little wonder, as there is no such person.
But Ragspierre had been a long-time Perry voter and supporter (two different things, stupid).
No more. He was right about T-rump a few months ago. Then he, like Sell-out Sarah, sold out.
Anyone too stupid to figure this out deserves no respect.
Well now that you have found your home helping Hillary, perhaps you will be happier if not wiser. And Rick Perry will say, “Oh, Raggspierre — isn’t he that French guy who tried surrender the Alamo to Santa Ana?”
Of course, you simply revert to lying. It’s who you are.
It’s also who T-rump is. A stinking, lying pathological Collectivist fraud.
But Rags, he’s an aggie too!
Trump is going to win Texas by large numbers. If you choose to write in the candidate of your choice, or leave the ballot blank in the Presidential column when you vote, it will likely not affect the ultimate result.
But keep Florida in 2000 in the back of your mind.
Trump is a man of low character, unfit for any office of public trust in the first place, and mentally unstable to boot.
– –
Anyone who supports him need never ask me for money, help, or votes again. Neither will I hire or do business with Trump supporters if there is a reasonable alternative available.
Those who cross the line can redeem themselves by repudiating him. Even my heirs understand that if I find out they are supporting Trump, they are cut off.
Who would ever have thought that G.W. & Jeb Bush & Mitt Romney would be doing more to defend the conservative movement than Perry or Rubio?
But here we are. I’m a conservative and will never associate with the racist trash, leftists, thieves, and miscreants who support Trump.
” I’m a conservative… ”
No you’re not. You are a pig at the GOPe trough, afraid his rice bowl is going to be removed.
You have supported all the non conservative GOPe choices in the past.
You refuse to tell us who you supported in the contest this year. Doing so would have proven who you were, no conservative.
Trump is a rowdy frat boy. Hillary is a practiced disciple of Evil.
It only seems like a dilemma to people who think that standing by your words is a question of public relations, rather than one of honor.
All hail the Noble LOSER!
Looking forward to your submission under Hillary?
Thanks for the well reasoned counter-argument. Apparently the use of the word “honor” was lost on you. I wasn’t in any way referring to Trump. Only to people who say one thing then change their … Never mind.
“Only to people who say one thing then change their …”
Like every political contest since the beginning of politics. But this year, you will make a point of how honorable you are sticking to your “pledge”.
There is no “honor” in BS. It’s just BS spewed by a miniscule number of #nevertrumpers led by such notable “conservatives” like Bill Kristol, who said this:
“I look forward to Obama’s inauguration with a surprising degree of hope and good cheer.”
Either you have no honor or you’re fooling yourself.
interesting snip from OR poll.
http://cloutpolitical.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/05/OR-Statewide-Poll-Memorandum-5-18-2016.pdf
Trump leads by a small margin, 44% to 42%, with 13% yet undecided.
The Trump lead is statistically insignificant … Both candidates have solidified much of their own political bases … but Trump has a massive lead among Oregon independent voters, winning 53% support compared to just 26% support among independents for Clinton.
Wow — in Oregon, no less
The left wingers at #NeverTrump are not going to like that
“It’s to stop Hillary. Period.” (Or Bernie, Biden, etc)
Anyone too stupid to figure this out deserves no respect.
I can’t believe so many find this point hard to grasp.
A giant fireball from the sun is hurtling towards Earth and will wipe out life in our country for generations, and the only weapon we have is the Donald. Wake up.
You get your behind – behind whoever you want. I will not vote for a POS like Trump. #NeverTrump#NeverHillary
You’re like the fool crossing the street with an emergency car rushing forward…
…thinking to yourself, “but I’M in the crosswalk!”
You’re RIGHT.
And DEAD.
An interesting analysis of why Trump will win (Econ policies) from a blog KMarge contributes to.
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/79082/trump-will-beat-hillary/
I’m sure you’re excited by the idea of Hillary taking over the SCOTUS with your help
What an absolute fallacy. Not supporting Trump is not support for Hillary. It’s not even passive support for Hillary. I will never campaign for or in any other way work to support either candidates’ campaigns. I am not “for” Hillary because I will not vote for Trump. #NeverMeansNever
I’m not 100%, but I think you said at some point that you didn’t vote for McCain and/or Romney (I seem to recall your not having voted for Romney?). If you voted for one, the other, or both, then you know what it feels like to “hold your nose” and do what you think best. If you did not vote for one, the other, or both, then you also know what it feels like to be pushed too far … one too many times.
If you voted for both McCain and Romney, then maybe I can see your sense that not voting for Trump is a vote “for” Hillary. Heck, I made the same argument in 2012. Obviously to no avail. If you failed to vote (R) in 2008 and/or 2012, you need to realize that according to your own logic, you voted Obama in one or both of those elections. I’m pretty sure that’s not how you see it.
Either or any way, I can guarantee you that your comments about whom I should vote for and support will have the exact same measure of influence on my opinion and vote that my comments on whom YOU should vote would have. Exactly zero. Maybe even less than zero . . . your and your ilks’ behavior and nastiness actually detracts from and undermines any warming I might feel toward a Trump candidacy.
After learning that you support the idea of people not being able to earn a living during a Trump presidency unless they kiss the ring and convince random nobodies who comment on websites they are serious about their Trump devotion, I have exactly zero regard for you. I don’t want to see even a rabid loon progressive destroyed, their family destroyed. I fight against the left because, in no small part, they are heartless, brutal, unthinking, mean-spirited, and nasty.
I am seeing far far too many of these exact same traits (and strategies) in the new Trump right. I want nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with promoting or supporting it. Mean, nasty people are mean, nasty people no matter what they claim to be or what letter they plaster after their name, and I stand against “punishing one’s enemies” for dissent no matter who the oppressive and disgustingly evil offending party is. I stand on principle: it’s wrong to destroy people’s lives for not thinking as you do. Period.
That’s principle.
You seem to think it’s only wrong when it’s the Obama IRS targeting the Tea Party or when it’s the DOJ protecting the Black Panthers and Hillary from prosecution. That means you don’t act or think or live by any governing principle. When it’s your turn to wield the power or to puff yourself up as some sort of first disciple to whom all should make believable their contrition over not supporting Trump, you are perfectly happy to run with that. Your “enemies list” is somehow pure and good.
Obama’s sending the IRS after conservative and Republican groups is outrageous and wrong and needs to be investigated and stopped! Trump doing the same thing to his (and by your unthinking, blind devotion, your) “enemies”?? Wooohooo! That’s the way a winner wins and the way a leader leads.
It’s absolutely disgusting to me. On so many levels.
Mostly I’m just saddened and repulsed by the rise of this new vindictive, petty, mean-spirited, and nasty Trump right. It’s truly a cult of personality, and it’s horrendous. Luckily, I know from experience working with wonderful people like Leslie that this bias and nasty attitude toward people who think differently is not the absolute rule, that there are Trump supporters who are less shallow, mean-spirited, and hateful than many Trump fans here or on other sites. Sadly, we hear from the worst representatives of a potential presidency more than from anyone else.
Terrific response, Fuzzy, and it mostly mirrors the way I feel. I’m not quite #neverTrump because I cannot abide the thought of a Hillary presidency. But I did not support him in the primaries, and I find the behavior of many of the pro-Trumpers to be abhorrent. As it stands now, I will vote for him by holding my nose and taking anti-nausea medication, but the vile behavior of his supporters can still make me change my mind.
Thanks, Calif. I definitely understand where you are coming from. 🙂
” #NeverTrump#NeverHillary ”
LOL, you think adding #neverHillary makes your #nevertrump virtuous.
It is one or the other. You cannot be that stupid.
What a sad lot you all are.
You voted for Obama in 2012, right?
Expecting integrity from a politician is like expecting nutrition from a Twinkie.
And yet if you were starving and the only edible thing around was a Twinkie, I very much doubt you’d turn your nose up at it ~
Trump is the nominee because the GOP wanted to anoint Jeb just the way they have always shoved the person they wanted down our throats. The party failed to up hold the constitution, continued to confirm Constitution haters, failed to block the president’s power grabs, wanted to legalize law breakers with amnesty again and spends money like there is no tomorrow. How much more does the GOP need to show them that the productive sector of the American public is angry?
Well said.
IMO politicians like Rubio are acting like adults – they ran, they campaigned and they lost. Whether they agree or not the Republican “base” decided that Trump is the way they want the GOP to go for at least this cycle. It is either Trump or Hillary. GOP politicians have the choice – if they actually think Hillary would be the better choice for POTUS – of admitting it to the voters and deal with the consequences.
So Katie, if Trump had called you a liar repeatedly, called your husband ugly, said that your father was an accessory to the assassination of JFK and many other personal insults, would you then turn around and support such a person? I do not have to wait for your answer because I know what it would be. Not only NO, but hell No!
Is my other choice the wife who enabled her sleeze of a husband to rape my sister, the corrupt Sec of State who used her position to grant favors to those who gave money to her foundation, the liar who played fast & loose with her communications & security? You expect me to shaft the country because the other guy personally insulted me?
So, inspector, you are saying you have never voted for any politician ever, right?
The Establishment just won’t give up. Infesting every party with its picks as candidates.
Can’t even vote Libertarian to get away from them.
My Senior year in high school, a write in candidate won the election for class president … “Mickey Mouse”.
It may be time for “Mickey Mouse” to win a national election.
Today we remember the people, all the people, who died in the service of their country. Somehow writing in Mickey Mouse on a ballot seems to diminish their sacrifice. I don’t have any issue with a write in, but make it count, don’t make it a joke.
Vince Downey and Jorge Mecico, Vince’s wingman.
It’s not the criticism that’s the problem which is why since Rubio was fairly mild about it doesn’t have much problem with reversing themselves and supporting Trump.
The ones with the biggest problem are the ones who made it personal about Trump’s supporters. Some vile, mean and vicious things were said by national columnists in online and print articles.
They will have to apologize for that and explain how and why they felt entitled to do that. Let along make amends with Mr. Trump.
I for one remember them and I remember their very hurtful and vile attacks that were meant to be taken personally. Those attacks were filled with bile and anger that we deigned to ignore their received wisdom and support and vote for Mr. Trump. They acted as if we had spit on them and their icons and thus they felt entitled to reciprocate. But no where did I see any spitting on any of these people until after they went nuts on Trump supporters. Then they tried to claim it was the Trump supporters who did it first.
But there were very few Trump supporters online an in print who said much of anything similar.
So to Kevin Williamson, Jonah Goldberg, George Will, Ed Morrissey, Allahpundit, Erick Erickson, et cetera (you know who you are) I say: APOLOGIZE and make us feel you mean it. Otherwise you will find it hard making a living in a Trump Presidency. We’ll be too busy to bother reading you. That’s if you’re still employed.
There you are acting the special snowflake again, jakee, with your feeeeewings all hurt.
This whole “politics” thing is too hard for you. Give it up.
But DO NOT give up breathing waiting on anyone you named to “apologize” or make “amends” with “Mr. Trump”.
You’ll die.
Don’t have to be a special snowflake to not be amused to be called names by supposed pundits and principled conservatives.
Seems it’s stupid to me to name call people that you supposedly want to change their minds.
Just like here. The people doing the most trash talking are the supposed principled ones. But I see them as being the arrogant, snobs and self centered smug elites that they wish they were when they choose to look down on me and call me names for who I choose to support.
Politics or not, there’s no call for that. But then if you couldn’t call people names, you wouldn’t have much to say.
Aw, it’s so nice that you don’t stoop to the level of calling those arrogant, trash-talking, self-centered, smug elites names. Geesh, it’s truly marvelous to meet such a pious person who is far above the petty name calling that plagues that other side. Oh, I forgot that you didn’t mention, at all!, that such awful people also are only supposedly principled. And are also snots. So there! But you didn’t say that, right? And certainly not because of whom someone chooses to support! You’d so never call anyone names for that reason!
It must be nice to live in your world . . . it seems to be a fun place, full of all sorts of rhetorical side passages through which someone a bit more clever than you might actually win an argument.
Wait, so you think that destroying a person’s livelihood and making it hard for them to earn a living is okay? The threat of which your tone in this post seems to relish, even delight in? Setting aside the fact that you seem to be suggesting that failing to support Trump and/or speaking out against him is just cause for destroying the lives of those who express dissent, this is incredibly . . . awful and on so many levels. I may have misunderstood, though. (I certainly hope so, what a vile thing to wish on anyone . . . and for simply expressing their own opinions. In America. Surreal.)
But Fuzzy, that is exactly what Trump does! His worshipers are just like him and wish death and destruction on anyone who does not genuflect in his presence.
Yes, Trump has shown repeatedly that he will lavish praise on anyone who praises him (Putin is an example) and will attack and seek to destroy those who say “horrible” things about him, but I still find myself surprised when purportedly right-leaning people issue such threats and relish destroying a person’s livelihood, family, and life with the enthusiasm and blood-thirsty joy that I had previously associated only with the most virulent progressives and leftists. It’s just sad to me. Incredibly sad.
We are not going in a good direction if this is representative of the new Trump right.
You import to me power I never said I had. I am saying that their smug attitudes and take no prisoners style will not be rewarded during Trump’s presidency. No one will take special action against them. It’s not a threat, it’s a prediction.
I’ve already stopped going to places that have made it clear they don’t want me as a reader and I won’t click on links to writers that have also done the same thing.
And I and others will continue to do so in the future and when they find that they no longer can gather an audience then they will find themselves out of a job.
I won’t have done anything proactive to make that happen but my lack of action will make that happen along with others.
But frankly I don’t care what you think because obviously your looking for evil intent where it doesn’t reside just as you and others do about Trump.
I can’t understand what chord this man strikes in you all but if I was you, I’d look around to see what company I kept and how nasty and vicious you all are and how you screech and shriek like you’ve been scalded tells me that this is something buried deep in your psyche that truly you should see a therapist about.
I did say in my initial response that I hoped I was mistaken. What you say here is much more . . . balanced, but what you said above was a seemingly unequivocal call for anyone who dared utter words that didn’t support Trump be out of a job and unable to find another. Because, you seemed to imply, they deserved it by . . . what? Not liking Trump? Not supporting him? I still don’t get what you were initially saying because it sounds more like Mao’s China than the America I know and love.
Here’s a bit of a story for you to put my horror at your words into perspective. Years ago I first learned of the Bill Ayers-Weather Underground plans to, in essence, take over America. Their plan involved the cool, calm, and collected discussion of how to dispose of those millions of people (about 10% they mused) who could not be re-conditioned to their way of thinking in special re-education camps. My blood ran cold. COLD. Sure, I had already learned at that point about Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Castro, Hitler, Mao, and many other murderous dictators, but this was America. AMERICA.
Okay, sure, I knew, too, at that point about the (apparently not false) allegations that FDR had been responsible for starving of a million (or several millions, depending on reports) Americans during the Great Depression. But the thought that actually killing fellow citizens because they dared think differently than you do . . . it seemed so foreign and distant. So not a part of America. That Weather Underground plan cured me of the belief that we are somehow immune to the sort of craziness and genocide that plagues and has plagued every other nation on earth.
No, thankfully, you didn’t suggest that anyone who disagrees with Trump be slaughtered; I’m just giving you some insight into my horror at your attitude and words.
We’re not immune when any among us dreams of slaughtering millions of people for having the wrong thoughts. Knowing this fact, it’s hard for me to hear anyone on “our side” nonchalantly calling for the destruction of conservatives, their lives and families, in the name of . . . what? What exactly is the thing you think these people should be rendered unable to work or to support and feed their families? Failing to see the glories of Trump? Really? Is that a new sin that requires the absolute destruction of real people’s lives and of the lives of everyone who depends on them?
That is what you seemed to be saying in the initial comment to which I responded; I didn’t have to “look for evil intent” as you say, it’s right there, in your own words. If the people on your enemies list don’t bow and scrape to Trump, “make amends to Trump” to quote your exact words, they should be fired and then unable to find future employment. I paraphrase, but that’s what you said. And I would ask you, in all sincerity, to think a bit more rationally about your devotion to Trump and your condemnation of anyone who does not leap enthusiastically on the Trump train.
Because it has to be real enthusiasm . . . believable to you, right? It has to pass the Jake smell test and be legit Trump devotion . . . or it doesn’t count. Make amends, wait, not just amends, but amends that I personally believe, and okay, if I believe you are sincerely devoted to the Messiah Trump, you can keep making a living and feed your family and keep a roof over their heads. What you say is surreal. It’s cultish. And it’s dead frightening to anyone with a brain and any knowledge at all of history.
You may not care what I think, but I care very much what you think because you represent to me the very heart of darkness; I’m not the one saying that people should be made to starve, including their dependents, because they don’t bow down to my personal political savior. That’s you. If I ever did think as you do, I would run, run like the wind, to the nearest therapist and seek all the help he or she could offer. People I don’t agree with don’t deserve to be fired, unable to find future employment, their families destroyed, their lives ruined. That, my friend, is your own special madness, and even in recognizing that, I don’t hope you lose your livelihood, family, and home.
When right-leaning people start sounding like heartless, vindictive, and hate-filled leftists (“APOLOGIZE and make us feel you mean it” . . . or else! Your hubris and sense of entitlement in this statement made my skin crawl the first–and second–time I read it), it may be time to reevaluate your position.
Hint: Depriving people of their livelihood for the act of publicly disagreeing with a politician you support is not now and never should be punishable in any way in the United States of America. That is madness. That is . . . yes, I’ll say it because I believe it, evil.
If you can’t understand that, then all hope for you is lost. And if there are truly enough of you, then all hope for America is lost.
If you are going to spend your time in infantile attacks against Republicans and principled conservatives, most of whom support Trump, wouldn’t you be happier at Salon than playing the aggrieved victim here?
Of course maybe you already decided to do that and are just building up a portfolio of hackish attacks to impress their Trump haters at the interviews.
There was nothing, nothing at all, infantile about this comment. I am a Constitutional conservative, and I am adamantly opposed to Trump and think that Trump fans are being played for chumps. But then, my boss and the site owner has recently and repeatedly taken the same stance (You’re being played, and the prof “abhors” Trump). It would seem, then, that I am at the right site. Perhaps you are not?
Salon? For me? Now, that’s funny. Naw, I think you’d be happy over there . . . you’d get to do a modern dance interpretation of Trump devotion and subservience while muttering about how we need a way to track Trump detractors and punish them all for daring to oppose the Donald. I’m sure they have a spare dead possum you can perch on your head as you declare that while you used to hate Salon, now that Salon has said something nice about you, you now think Salon is great. The greatest, actually! You’ve always loved Salon and think they do a great job. Great! After all, they write about how great partial birth abortion is, and that’s something you think is great. The greatest! They also like to write about how the government should be more involved and take over more of our health care system that Obama managed. That’s something that is great! The greatest. Salon (or at least some of its writers) also supports the end of private property, and so do you! Who needs pesky homeowners telling you where you can build a golf course or a limo parking lot? Not you!
Salon also loves to talk about how incredibly evil the haters of “Palestine” are; no worries, when it comes to Israel , you’re going to be neutral! Screw that freaking Israel and leading from behind, you’ll just ignore the whole thing. After all, you’ll be busy building a meaningless wall!
Nothing says “stay out” more than keeping every policy in place that entices illegals in the first place . . . and building a big, shiny wall. Benefits? Food stamps? Sure, we can send all that to Mexico. Shrug. Who cares? As for all those illegals here already; We’ll “get” them. And then, after determining … erm, somehow, who the “good ones” are, we’ll just bring ’em back! At taxpayer expense. And this time, they’ll be legal. Sure, American taxpayers still pay for entitlements to illegals, but look! Shiny wall. The wall is tall. The wall is 100 feet high! The wall is good. The good wall is long. The long, good wall is long and good. Tunnels, boats? Who freaking cares about that? Look! Shiny wall. Shiny tall wall. Shiny tall, long wall! Walls are good. Pretending that there is one simple solution to a decades’ long problem is good. It’s great, even! Solutions are easy! I am the best solution maker person evah! The greatest, really.
Just ask me.
In fact, I so love the minimum wage being raised that I support that 100%! I also completely and totally oppose ethanol and the Renewable Fuel Standard.
Heh, just kidding! I was just joshing. You know, like when I confidently, even smugly, insisted that the United States military would carry our my unlawful orders. That was a yuge joke. Funny, huh? Isn’t that the funniest thing you’ve ever heard?
You want to know another funny thing? Remember that veterans’ fund raiser I attended as an excuse to get out of the Iowa debate? Ooops! Boy, did that not go well. I totally lied about what was collected and sent to vet causes. But it’s all good. You know why? Let me tell you why. Do you really want to know why? Because I know. And I’ll tell you. It’s all good because these right-wing crazies I’ve been catering to could see me shoot someone in the street, and they’d still love me. They love me. Love. Me. It’s great. It might just be the greatest!
As I said, I am limited government person, not a fan of enemies lists and using the federal government as a weapon. The professor has posted about his very real concerns that a vindictive, small-minded, thin-skinned person prone to suing and otherwise “punishing” his detractors or anyone who stands in his way is a real threat to liberty if put in charge of the Executive.
She’s just a miserable Trump hater
You said nothing wrong at all jakee308
Right, DaMav, so you, too, now think that destroying someone’s livelihood is acceptable in the name of your yellow troll God? You see nothing at all wrong with asserting that people who have the wrong thoughts and have expressed the wrong ideas need to “make amends” to the Great Trump . . . in a way that is believable and acceptable to his fawning followers? That their failure to do so . . . to your satisfaction should deprive them of their means of earning a living? As rude as you are to me these days, I would have never believed that you would support and defend that sort of insanity. But . . . I guess it’s not hard to fathom when we review the events of the last century.
See, that is what separates avid Trump fans from rational human beings. Most of us don’t want people to suffer, lose their jobs, be rendered unable to support their family under most circumstances (barring some gross violation of law, like treason or murder or some other violent crime and having been given a trial and lawfully convicted of said offense). You guys? You want people who don’t agree with you and sing the glories of Trump to your standards to be forced out of their jobs and unable to find another.
To my mind, there is zero difference between you and the most lunatic leftist fringe. Seriously. They get high on “power,” too, and they seek to destroy individuals and with them, their families. You are cheerleading the same thing. We have your number now, I guess, but it’s a tragic thing to see.
…DaMav said while plugging ears and stomping feet.
Yes, you win a participation trophy DaMav! Being dismissive of others is a Trump characteristic!
Dear Fuzzy:
Bill Kristol said the following:
“I look forward to Obama’s inauguration with a surprising degree of hope and good cheer.”
Do you think he now see’s trump as a greater threat to democracy than Obama? Or, is it possible he see’s trump as greater threat to his “position” at the trough of the GOPe?
Or, as an alternative, is he just stupid?
I don’t think he is stupid and no one with an ounce of brains could possibly believe trump is a greater threat to our republic than Obama potentially was, and has proven to be. That only leaves one choice.
Figure out where you are on that “curve”.
You may not be aware of this but actual conservatives don’t revere a single personality and mold ourselves in his or her image. I am no more responsible for what Bill Kristol says than you are for what David Duke says in praise of Donald Trump.
Raggsie oh raggsie oh raggsie do,
you still squirm around in your pee & poo,
while overhead a bird still flew,
dropping white droppings on your face askew.
While in the meantime your support crew,
echoed your sentiments as such will do,
mouthing blithe sentiments as if from you,
mouthing your hatreds hoping they come true.
To be proven right is now your cause,
if it’ll harm the country brings no pause,
just so raggsie oh raggsie draws applause,
that’s the way it should be, just because!
Raggsie oh raggsie do.
Every election represents a choice. Two choices, in fact. The first choice is whether to vote or stay home. The second choice is who to vote for. But, unless one is actually campaigning for a specific candidate, they should probably just keep their mouths shut and stay home. This is what many of the GOP conservatives did in 2008 and 2012. They did not campaign against McCain or Romney, after those men gained the nomination, nor did they campaign for Obama. They simple sat home quietly.
There are two main groups, in the GOP, who fear and hate Trump. The first one is the GOP establishment. Unlike any of the other GOP candidates, Trump is largely uncontrollable. Even, Cruz would have been controllable, as he is a career politician ans is dependent upon a national party to maintain his elected position. The second group is largely composed of Cruz supporters who are outraged that Trump stole the Cruz campaign and then ran it like Rambo.
These groups see Trump, not as the least desirable Republican party, but as threat to the Party itself. And, that is the fear that drives their hate.
Bullshit.
First, the GOPe is all good with Mr. Establishment. Note that only a few principled national elected people are withholding support. You’ve got every establishment fossil from Bob Dole to John McAnus lined up behind him. T-rump himself thinks Rience is the bees knees.
Second, the whole “sore Cruz looser ” meme is a lie and you either know it or are too stupid to live.
I was clear I’d never vote T-rump many months ago, and on record. So were most of us who see Der Donald as who he is.
I was also on record that I’d never vote for Hucksterbeeee or Rubio after Rubio flopped on his amnesty flip.
Finally, very few give a rat’s ass about the GOP and what Der Donald will do to it. Most of us are not affiliated with the GOP.
If Trump doesn’t turn out to be who you say he is and the threat to the nation you say he is, will you apologize?
Sure. But I’ve already been demonstrated correct.
Sorry, but you are wrong, again. And apparently getting desperate.
Let’s take a look at this. In the first place, you have to understand who comprises the GOP establishment. There are three main groups. The most visible are the establishment politicians. These people are CAREER politicians. They depend upon a party, not a constituency, for their continued employment.But, from time to time, they also have to appease the masses who vote either for or against them. Then you have the party support people. These include the party leadership, the consultants, the advisers, the finance managers,lobbyists, etc. These people make a very nice living out of “supporting” the political and government process in this country. They depend upon favorable contacts among the politicians and other political elite. Then you have the monied establishment. These are the people that you rarely, if ever, see associated with the political class. They, essentially, buy favorable actions from the political class to increase their personal wealth and security. They are the elite business and financial interests, both in this country and abroad.
Now, there is nothing wrong with any of these classes of people, except when they ignore or actively work against the interests of the vast majority of the people of this country. And, that is what has been happening for the last 20 years. The majority of people said NO to Obamacare [70% against it). The politicians ignored them. The majority said NO to open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens. The politicians ignored them. The majority said repeal Obamacare. The politicians ignored them. The majority said enforce the existing immigration laws. The politicians ignored them. The politicians listened to the monied establishment which wanted cheap labor, government subsidization of healthcare, and the ability to import manufactured goods into this country at reduced cost.
So, now there is a citizen’s revolt, in progress. In the persons of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders, the leaders of the two dominant parties in America are losing, or have lost, control of the management of their party. This threatens their livelihood. The President can be a dynamic force to block the measures that the monied establishment wish to see enacted. This will cost the monied establishment. And, if the leadership can not deliver, this will cost them the support, both monetary and other, of the monied class. It might actually result in their being removed from their current cushy jobs. The politicians, if they are forced to actually represent the will of their constitutions, might lose the support of the monied establishment. And, the “support” people [lobbyists, advisers, pundits, etc.] could find themselves unable to provide a conduit to the monied class, which supplies their livelihood.
A populist President is likely to spell financial disaster for the people who comprise the current GOP establishment. This NOT about ideology, with the establishment, but about MONEY.
As to why the Cruz supporters hate Trump and are so virulently opposed to him has little to do with ideology. Both Trump and Cruz ran as the anti-establishment candidate. Both Cruz and Trump have shown a win-at-all-costs attitude. Both have a past record at odds with their anti-establishment positions. The only real difference in the two is that Trump is an actual political outsider. Cruz has always been a political insider and, for that reason, is suspect to the current anti-establishment grassroots revolution. If trump had not run, then Cruz would have had a much better chance of garnering sufficient support to become the nominee by running on an anti-establishment platform. However, it is only conjecture that he would have picked up enough grassroots support to have won the nomination out right, as Trump did. So, the Cruz supporters feel cheated of their victory. And, that is why they haven’t simply gone away chanting Cruz in 2020.
Now there is no indication how Trump will govern, That is one of the major problems for the establishment. But, there is no real indication how Cruz would have governed, either.
I find it interesting that you are still attacking Trump. You say that you will not vote for him. This is your right. No one forces you to cast a vote. But, why are you still actively campaigning against Trump? The country’s choice, in November will be Trump or either Clinton or Sanders. So, why is Clinton or Sanders a BETTER choice that Trump? I can see why Clinton would be a more favorable choice that Trump, as far as the monied establishment is concerned. She can be bought. Sanders, is another matter, but is unlikely to actually get the nomination. So, why would you prefer Clinton over Trump?
Nice!
More complete bullshit. Extensive bullshit.
No, it is precisely the truth.
I think you know it. And to butthurt over Cruz losing to admit it.
The Official GOPe are concerned about their personal control of the party above all else. And the other group is the #NeverTrump who are all the remaining non-GOPe who are all butthurt.
There are plenty of people who still do not believe this and my suggestion for them is a good squeegee and Windex for their glass belly button as it has been perfectly clear to anyone who was paying attention.
Now the question for the #NeverTrump people is this: Exactly what is your plan for when Hillary is elected president and your actions also cost the Republicans the control of both houses of Congress? Do you have a plan, have you contemplated all the possible consequences of your actions? I do not think so or you are thicker than I think. The last time(2012) was bad enough.
Sure!
It’s called “secession.” Texas was once a Republic, and it shall be so again.
It used to be that this was a fringe idea of the tinfoil hat crowd. As we Texans have seen the carnage wrought by a Democrat Controlled Congress, and a complacent, compliant and timid GOPe that refuses to stand on its principles, the movement has grown exponentially.
Supposedly 22 of the 270 county conventions have voted for secession in this cycle (there are 254 counties, but some counties have more than one convention: Texas is a big place). While only 10 confirmed that they voted for that, it was enough to actually force a committee vote at the convention to determine if a full-blown vote should occur, and if the idea should be put to the voters of Texas.
If Hillary Clinton becomes President, and the Congress reverts to a Democrat controlled Congress, expect to see this make a hasty return, with a MUCH larger group clamoring for it.
Succession was pretty much settled in 1864. It is no longer a viable option. Sorry.
Not really, no.
Texas v. White is likely not likely binding precedent, and the language that was used by Justice Chase does not appear in the Constitution at all, as the Constitution is wholly silent on how or under what circumstances a State may LEAVE the Union, and it gives bare attention to what a territory must do to Join the union.
The long and short of it is that if a state, by and through its populace were to decide to leave the Union by vote (either direct or by act of the legislature and executive branch), the remainder of the Union is GOING to let them go. The nation will NOT fight another civil war to KEEP a state in the union.
Can you explain “Career politician”? Cruz is halfway through ONE SINGLE six-year term, so where is the career part? And second, where do the people who are sick of cheeto man and can’t stand the thought of having to listen to his BS every day for the next four years, fit into your childish two groups? I would bet that 90% of us that are registered as Republicans do not give a rats ass about the party. We care about our country and do not want a lying crook or a lying clown running it.
Since 1999, Cruz has either worked directly for an elected politician, was a government appointee or was an elected politician, except for the four years from 2008-2012, two of which he spent running for Texas Attorney General. In 2009 and 2010, he was campaigning for the Texas Attorney General position, until his former boss decided to run for that office. In 2012 he ran for the open Senate seat in Texas. So, in the last 17 years, Cruz has spent 15 of those years working in an elected or appointed government government position. Sounds like a “career politician” to me.
As to your second point, about the people who simply hate Trump, how many of them are there and WHY do they have this seemingly irrational hatred for him? What exactly has he done which would generate such intense hatred? It can’t be voting for Obamacare, or his vote for amnesty, or his support for the TPA and TPP. He has never been in a position to actively impact those things. So, why the intense dislike? IF you look at the history of Ted Cruz, you see that he has always been closely allied with establishment political people and interests. He worked for G.W. Bush and helped design and implement NAFTA. He has close ties to the establishment financial community, through his wife. He simply forgot to report his connect to Caribbean Equity Partners and loans from Goldman Sachs [where his wife worked] and Citibank, in 2012. Then there was his support for the TPA, before he was against it.
So, what is the big difference between Cruz and Trump? Trump is an outsider. And, that is what this election is all about.
“We care about our country and do not want a lying crook or a lying clown running it.”
While I disagree with your characterization of trump, you will have one or the other.
Just like almost every election previous. Did you vote for McCain? Romney?
What tough choice?
“Donald Trump would not have been my first choice, but Hillary Clinton is far, far worse. Our choice in November is clear.”
Done.
No hypocrisy, no burning of bridges.
“For, like all tyrants, [Trump] is utterly lacking in self-control. Sleeping a handful of hours a night, impulsively tweeting in the early hours, improvising madly on subjects he knows nothing about, Trump rants and raves as he surfs an entirely reactive media landscape. Once again, Plato had his temperament down: A tyrant is a man “not having control of himself [who] attempts to rule others”; a man flooded with fear and love and passion, while having little or no ability to restrain or moderate them; a “real slave to the greatest fawning,” a man who “throughout his entire life … is full of fear, overflowing with convulsions and pains.” Sound familiar? Trump is as mercurial and as unpredictable and as emotional as the daily Twitter stream. And we are contemplating giving him access to the nuclear codes…
…take the fight to Trump at every opportunity, unite with Democrats and Independents against him, and be prepared to sacrifice one election in order to save their party and their country.
For Trump is not just a wacky politician of the far right, or a riveting television spectacle, or a Twitter phenom and bizarre working-class hero. He is not just another candidate to be parsed and analyzed by TV pundits in the same breath as all the others. In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event. It’s long past time we started treating him as such.” (emphasis added)
-Andrew Sullivan’s, NY Magazine article, America Has Never Been so Ripe for Tyranny
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html
You will want to read the whole article.
We’re supposed to listen to Andrew Sullivan fault someone for lacking self-control and being bizarre? Mr. “Trig Truther”? No one can be that gullible.
You are supposed to listen to various people, friend and foe alike, and evaluate what they said. Their history is a factor, to be sure, and placing their statement in context of what they said before is fine. Dismissing them outright is not.
If you are already feeding on Trump’s pablum then you would have a problem digesting Sullivan’s article.
I’m not, by any stretch of the imagination, a Sullivan fan, but people who are often wrong can also make insightful contributions. Or perhaps you think we should all ignore Einstein and Edison because they screwed things up from time to time? I mean, geesh, that idiot Einstein actually messed up his first proof of E = MC squared. Moron! Idiot! Ignore the buffoon!
That Edison, what a drooling idiot! He had something like 3,000 theories about light, but only two of them were anything like viable. What a goof! Ignore him for all time.
Obviously, Sullivan is no Einstein or Edison, but stating that someone’s credibility is shot because of one ridiculous mistake . . . . puts you in good company. 😛
“…but stating that someone’s credibility is shot because of one ridiculous mistake…”
To use one of your terms – “Wow, just wow.”
Anything, any BS said on the altar of the #nevertrump group is now valid.
You are all hypocrites, fighting a lost battle, trying to prove your “virtue”.
Complete blindness is not a virtue.
Reservations, certainly. I have them. But your irrational fear of anything trump is a failure.
Ah, so you think one mistake should undermine a person’s credibility? Let’s look at some Trump’s many many “mistakes”:
Gee, that Chinese government wasn’t anywhere near tough enough on those unarmed peaceful protesters in Tiannamen Square.
[Hmphs and shrugs and makes that ridiculous four-year-old pouty lip face) Yes, trust me, the military will obey all of my orders. Yes, even the illegal ones. They will. [big fat pouty lip thrust out now in defiance and to indicate the end of the discussion.]
I know Hillary, she’s great. Great! She’s done a great job as Secretary of State (this, after Benghazi).
Hillary? Wow, she’s great. Doing a really super job and would make a great president. Seriously, I know her, and she’d make a great president.
Abortion? Partial-birth abortion (ripping limbs from viable fetuses while still in the womb)? Yeah, that’s all good. I like that. After all, you got to remember, I’m from New York, and we love that fetal dismemberment here. It’s our values.
Guns? Look, if only the police could legally have them, then we’d know that anyone who was not police would be a criminal. Sure, I’m all for banning guns and ammo that don’t exist. That would be great, something needs to be done.
Speaking of things that need to be done: that pesky 4th Amendment? Well, that’s just dumb. Those people who believe in the Constitution are stupid.
Wait, we have a missile defense system? Really? Like wow, that’t so great. It will be greater when I run it, of course, but even now, that’s pretty great.
What are the three top priorities of federal government? Well, that’s easy! It’s so easy you shouldn’t even be asking me this easy question! The three top priorities of the federal government? Easy peasy: national security, health care, and education.
That’s your guy. What he said.
I’m glad to know that you think everything someone says is critical to understanding who they are and what they believe. I happen to agree.
I am not a Sullivan fan either. But, his article is coherent, cogent and concisely to the point of where we find ourselves. And, I did “listen” to someone outside my “universe.”
Speaking of Error incarnate and his disciples:
“No one can be that gullible.” Well, you are supporting the wide-eyed arm waving and bellicose, “Howard Stern-ed” hellion Trump, aren’t you? You do want Trump to raise hell and to do so no matter what happens, don’t you?
I believe there is an apology needed but it should be from Trump and his supporters who have insulted us all in their quest to make us vote for Trump. If I were running his campaign I would tell him to go on national TV and say “Look, folks, I have been an a$$hole and I know it. I apologise for that because I am new to this game. But I will promise you this, if you will support me I will do all I can to prevent hillay from becoming the president of the greatest nation ever and if I am elected I will make the Constitution my bible!”
“…and be prepared to sacrifice one election to save their party and their country.” Four more years of progressive Democratic Party rule in the White House and we won’t have a country to save. The Supreme Court appointments alone will guarantee that. As for the “party,” does anyone think a Trump defeat will lead to a conservative takeover of the GOP? Fat chance. Above all else Billary or Bernie or Biden or Fauxcahontas must be defeated.
Yes, you would still fork over $35K (your life savings?) to enroll in Trump U knowing full well that Trump U is in court re: fraud.
“[Trump’s] now-discontinued Trump University operation has been accused not just of fraud, false advertising, and unfair business practices, but also of having used such tactics against vulnerable seniors in ways that violated special “financial elder abuse” statutes in California and Florida.”
http://fortune.com/2016/03/08/trump-university-financial-elder-abuse-charges/
Go for it TP! You believe that Trump is guaranteed to do right by you.
And did you know that Trumps wants a jury trial because he believes that he can sway the jury with his swagger, just like the way he’s dominated you and many others.
Trump is like his sister Hillary in so many fraudulent and Progressive ways.
That Trump U Suit is a bunch of losers who couldn’t succeed if you gave them a diagram to where some money was buried.
I’m sure there was a lot of marketing hype and I’d bet these folks thought that you can be a real estate success like you can a house builder. (bar the approvals and other bureaucratic stuff) that 2+2=4. But it’s not nor never shall be that easy to be a salesman.
You first have to have a bit of charm and charisma with some drive and willing to work very hard.
If you don’t have that as a minimum, no one will be able to help you become a successful salesman.
I’m sure there are tons of people who graduated law school that failed at being a lawyer. That’s just life.
All that suit is someone’s been convinced by a lawyer (for a fee) that they can get a big payout by suing Trump. Time will tell but it means nothing.
“The ones with the biggest problem are the ones who made it personal about Trump’s supporters. Some vile, mean and vicious things were said by national columnists in online and print articles.”
BUT THEN…
“That Trump U Suit is a bunch of losers who couldn’t succeed if you gave them a diagram to where some money was buried.”
AND I’m still laughing at your accusation against people who will not vote for T-rump as being “passive aggressive” and hurting your feeeeeeeewings. You really are a GOOD T-rump supporter, jakee.
Good example!
All this hysterical reaction to Trump just mystifies me. I told my wife that you need a sense of humor to get Trump. He reminds me of a guy I worked with. When we first started dress-down Fridays (before dress-down every day) he would come in with a white shirt and tie. I asked him once why he wasn’t dressed casually. He said, “I am. The tie is polyester and these aren’t my Tony Lama boots.” Some didn’t get it. I know Trump can’t do all he says he’ll do but even some of it will be better than what we’ve had. And…who the hell hasn’t changed his mind. Why, in my youth, I wasn’t even a racist.
Many, many, RINOs and GOPe types will be called to account for their no-account sliming of 2016’s version of Ronald Reagan.
Indeed, the nation will be paying for eschewing Cruz in favor of The Man From WrestleMania and his counter-weight on the wheel of Collectivism, Hellary Clinton.
For years, if not decades. And some of the most guilty are constant posters here. Right, D’Mav…???
Ah yes, DaMav, one the voices crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Trump, make his paths straight, and eschew the wicked Harridan of Hillary. Be not a mindless minion of #NeverTrump — a noxious weed in a garden of truth and beauty.
Yes, I’m happily here and will not sit down and shut up, regardless of your filth laden temper tantrums or the Drama Queen antics of your Fluffer Flippers. 🙂
And moreover, we WILL build a wall! lol
Nice showing of paranoid schizophrenia…!!!
A necessary accessory for the well-turned-out T=rumpian cultist.
Puuuuuuuur, puuuuuuuur persecuted you…!!!
“Nice showing of paranoid schizophrenia…!!!”
In your words, “self parody”.
LOL, you just cannot make this S**T up.
Just checked in to see if Riki Tiki Raggsie was still going on & sure enough!
Raggsie ; you should get together with Bill Krystal & David Brooks, birdbrains together ready to take it to Bed, Bath & Beyond!
Thanks for pointing out the correct Rubio quote. Rubio doesn’t have many fans anymore but its still not right when news orgs take a speech and use one line out of context to make their headline.
I’m not Ragspierre, I’m not going to sit around and blame everyone or even anyone in the party for lining up behind Trump. Its a political party and he won the nominating contest, so he’ll get the support. That’s how it works and how its supposed to work, otherwise why bother having a political party.
But its also Trump’s job to unify the party, to support other Republicans, and to reach out to its natural allies that he chose to grind under his heel in the primary. If that’s not going to happen now, then when? It’s practically June right now and the convention is in mid- July.
Good point in your second paragraph. But I see this happening to a large extent. And Trump resisting moderating some of his core positions in exchange for unity is a good sign, actually.
Still, you’re right, he’s got to make it happen.
A great BIG FLUCK YOU! to vets he used as stage props just days ago…
http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2016/05/30/sorry-vets-but-trumps-still-not-ready-to-tell-you-what-he-did-with-all-that-money-he-raised-for-you/
He’s nothing, if not predictable…
And right on cue, trump makes you and your fellow leftists, look the fools you are, once again.