George Will: Purge Trump and His Supporters from GOP
“Trumpites” are only “lightly attached to the political process”
George Will has written a thought-provoking piece over at WaPo in which he argues that the GOP should purge itself of Trump and Trump’s supporters.
When, however, Trump decided that his next acquisition would be not another casino but the Republican presidential nomination, he tactically and quickly underwent many conversions of convenience (concerning abortion, health care, funding Democrats, etc.). His makeover demonstrates that he is a counterfeit Republican and no conservative.
He is an affront to anyone devoted to the project William F. Buckley began six decades ago with the founding in 1955 of the National Review — making conservatism intellectually respectable and politically palatable. Buckley’s legacy is being betrayed by invertebrate conservatives now saying that although Trump “goes too far,” he has “tapped into something,” and therefore . . . .
Therefore what? This stance — if a semi-grovel can be dignified as a stance — is a recipe for deserved disaster. Remember, Henry Wallace and Strom Thurmond “tapped into” things.
Unlike Ted Cruz who embraces Trump supporters, Will wonders who Trump’s supporters are:
Conservatives who flinch from forthrightly marginalizing Trump mistakenly fear alienating a substantial Republican cohort. But the assumption that today’s Trumpites are Republicans is unsubstantiated and implausible. Many are no doubt lightly attached to the political process, preferring entertainment to affiliation. They relish their candidate’s vituperation and share his aversion to facts. From what GOP faction might Trumpites come? The establishment? Social conservatives? Unlikely.
They certainly are not tea partyers, those earnest, issue-oriented, book-club organizing activists who are passionate about policy. Trump’s aversion to reality was displayed during the Cleveland debate when Chris Wallace asked him for “evidence” to support his claim that Mexico’s government is sending rapists and drug dealers to the United States. Trump, as usual, offered apoplexy as an argument.
Will concludes his piece calling for “excommunicating” Trump and his supporters from the GOP:
So, conservatives today should deal with Trump with the firmness Buckley dealt with the John Birch Society in 1962. The society was an extension of a loony businessman who said Dwight Eisenhower was “a dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy.” In a 5,000-word National Review “excoriation” (Buckley’s word), he excommunicated the society from the conservative movement.
Peter Whener, writing at Commentary, agrees with Will:
Fortunately there are conservative commentators who are doing just that [“excommunicating” Trump and his supporters], including Bill Bennett, David Brooks, Mona Charen, Charles C.W. Cooke, Michael Gerson, Jonah Goldberg, Victor Davis Hanson, Charles Krauthammer, Matt Lewis, Rich Lowry, Michael Medved, Paul Mirengoff, Dana Perino, John Podhoretz, Karl Rove, Jennifer Rubin, Kevin Williamson, regular contributors to this web site (among them Max Boot, Noah Rothman and Jonathan Tobin), editorial page writers for the Wall Street Journal and others.
These individuals, while differing on various matters, understand the difference between angry populism and conservatism. They don’t believe crudity is a conservative virtue. And they don’t want conservatism stained by an unprincipled interloper and cynical opportunist, which is what Mr. Trump is. (It’s been well documented that until a few years ago, Trump was a registered Democrat, a large financial contributor to leading liberal politicians, and held liberal positions on a wide range of issues.)
In that sense, this is a clarifying moment for conservatism. Those on the right who have become Trump defenders have, I think, made a serious error in judgment that is the result of a rather profound misunderstanding of conservatism (for more, see here). You can cherish and champion conservative principles, or you can support and praise Donald Trump. But you can’t do both.
Writing at Townhall, Pat Buchanan offers a different viewpoint:
For there is a plot afoot in The Washington Post Conservative Club to purge Trump from the Republican Party before the primaries begin.
“A political party has a right to … secure its borders,” asserts the Post’s George Will, “a duty to exclude interlopers.” Will wants The Donald “excommunicated” and locked out of all GOP debates until he kneels and takes a loyalty oath to the nominee.
“Marginalizing Trump” carries no risk of “alienating a substantial Republican cohort,” Will assures us, for these “Trumpites” are neither Republicans nor conservatives. Better off without such trash.
The Post’s Michael Gerson says “establishment Republicans” must “make clear that [Trump] has moved beyond the boundaries of serious and civil discourse.” He loathes the Trumpites as much as Will.
Trump’s followers are “xenophobic,” Gerson tells CNN. They have a “resentment of outsiders, of Mexico, of China, and immigrants. That’s more like a European right-wing party, a UKIP or a National Front in France. Republicans can’t incorporate that.”
But if the GOP has no room for Trump’s followers, it has no future. For there simply aren’t that many chamber-of-commerce and country-club Republicans.
I’m sure that this is a debate that will continue for some time, but I wonder if it will end as the GOP establishment seems to think it will?
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Comments
I think that George Will and his ilk should be purged from the GOP.
He has a reputation that exceeds his contributions. Perhaps in the past he did better but lately he’s become the symbolic old fuddy duddy that needs to be at least removed as emblematic of the GOP.
His increasing hysteria and hysterical pronouncements (such as this one about purging Trump) are becoming laughable.
Retire George. You’re old, you’re out of touch and you’re starting to sound like you’ve lost your mind.
Would George then be outraged if Trumph ran 3rd party after he was kicked out of the GOP?
If Trump ran “third party,” it would demonstrate that Will and other Trump-skeptics were correct about his motives.
I’m not xenophobic. I like western culture. I don’t like the hispanic invasion of the US, which I want stopped and reversed.
You have a problem with reading comprehension. My comment above says nothing about xenophobia, nor does it touch on the immigration issue at all. (I commented on it below.)
I simply suggested that Trump’s motives are suspect if he chooses to run “third party” (actually 5th or 6th party on most ballots), and possibly thereby makes a Democrat-leftist victory easier — after knocking out Republican candidates with a more consistently conservative record.
Trump fans have a tendency to evade the point and deflect — as you have done — when they don’t have a good answer to reasonable questions about his intentions or actual policy positions (as distinct from what he chooses to say at a particular time).
I don’t have a problem with reading comprehension.
What I do have a problem with is rino comprehension of WHY the Donald is being cheered.
It’s because “Will, and other Trump skeptics” see no problem with the “folks” in America being lied to, defrauded, stolen from, disrespected, murdered, and our quality of life being eroded by fence sitting, lying, immoral, unethical, thieving, establishment elitists from their fenced communities and safety envelopes paid for with our taxes. If you mention Trump, in includes: by virtue of his courage in not being PC, not being afraid to say islamic terrorist, and addressing illegal immigration turning our country into a 3 world.
Cruz/Palin ’16
Perhaps… Those calling for the outster of anyone they deem unfit for their RINO party are, by word & deed, seeding America for a Conservative Party to come to life?
Seems they are tired of pretending to Conservative and want the GOP to be known as the land of intelligent progressivism.
Wow!
“intelligent progressivism”
I just witnessed the birth of a oxymoron.
Thank you.
Will is only a conservative by Beltway standards. He did everything in his power to stop Reagan in 1980, first supporting Howard Baker and then Bush41. He has become much more bizarre recently. Perhaps the toupee glue has affceted George’s brain.
Wait a minute. Maybe ole George is on to something.
IMO, RINOs should be forming the 3rd party. Then there would be a dimhate/rinoeunuch ticket and the I love America tea party.
Relegate the Republican party to the dustbin of useless clubs like the dims did their party 30 years ago.
Dear George,
You’re an affront to the majority of the folks in this country who still believe in America, her traditions and morality. The only people that need to be “purged” are the Establishment GOP – who obviously are in an incestuous relationship with the Leftist Democrats. You all became one a long time ago.
I look forward to the demise of the GOP if this continues, and it will…you all cannot be changed, you have to be replaced.
What do you imagine will happen after the GOP’s demise — other than a Democrat-leftist lock on every election? How do you propose to build a new, purer party that starts winning big elections right away?
Trump fans often display all the thoughtfulness of leftist revolutionaries who have great zeal to smash things, but no workable concept of what will fill the void. Many American leftists are actually more reasonable, in that they understand that the most important thing to do in an election is to stop the party they hate most.
By contrast, the “smash the GOP” crowd apparently think it’s more important to feel good about themselves than influence the direction of the country.
Will any of the down-voters attempt to answer my questions? What happens after the GOP is smashed? What takes its place? How will you engineer a result that’s better instead of worse?
It’s supposed to be radical revolutionaries — not thoughtful conservatives — who go about smashing things without much consideration of the consequences.
You’re trying to reason with people who are reasonable.
They’re mad/scared/disgusted/betrayed and they are emoting. Some of them are literally nuts, but not a lot.
They aren’t answering because they can’t. And they don’t care at the moment.
Misdirection at work. Nobody is trying to smash the GOP – we are trying to transform/restore the GOP. Actually, you could call us Platform Republicans – we simply want our members and candidates to follow the GOP platform. Pretty simple, really.
BTW – Trump can’t go third party. There simply isn’t enough time to create a new political party AND get it on the ballot in 50 states. Trump will simply not support certain people if he is not the nominee.
If it is not possible to start next spring, there’s a lot wrong with ballot access laws. But Perot did it.
You can sue, and maybe also get the lines of existing third parties.
What they are saying is that it would $20 million and that Trump would not be willing to spend the money. The supposed proof is something to the effect that he only committed to spend $10 million now, and that he refused to spend money now on political ads (a good decision) or on polling. (it would be kind of useful to double-check what’s he’s hearing)
I’ll “attempt” to “answer”. So good of you to condescend to to ask for a answer when you really don’t care.
You’re part ot the problem. You don’t think we recognize that you, Will, and your ilk have deemed to come down into the slum to edumacate us po, dumb, clingers, about the proper, compromisin’ attitude so’s Y’all can steal and keep the just desserts that we need youse guys to keep fundin”.
You “Will, and other Trump skeptics” see no problem with the “folks” in America being lied to, defrauded, stolen from, disrespected, murdered, and our quality of life being eroded by fence sitting, lying, immoral, unethical, thieving, establishment elitists from their fenced communities and safety envelopes paid for with our taxes. If you mention Trump, in includes: by virtue of his courage in not being PC, not being afraid to say islamic terrorist, and addressing illegal immigration turning our country into a 3 world. ESAD.
Cruz/Palin ’16
That is pretty unsound thinking George. Why do you want encourage a billionaire with limitless resources to create a better funded third Party? Isn’t it better to work with him from within your Party?
Hey Peter, thanks for the list of names:
Bill Bennett, David Brooks, Mona Charen, Charles C.W. Cooke, Michael Gerson, Jonah Goldberg, Victor Davis Hanson, Charles Krauthammer, Matt Lewis, Rich Lowry, Michael Medved, Paul Mirengoff, Dana Perino, John Podhoretz, Karl Rove, Jennifer Rubin, Kevin Williamson, regular contributors to this web site (among them Max Boot, Noah Rothman and Jonathan Tobin)
Victor Davis Hansen was writing about the problems resulting from the porous border and the Mexicanization of California long before Trump decided to make border security his big, attention-grabbing issue.
Others on the list also have more solid and longstanding conservative credentials than Trump (though I have big disagreements with some of them).
It’s rather typical of Trump fans to say, in effect, “If you criticize Trump, you’re off my reading list!”
When you look at the group, there are very few conservatives. Most are neocons (a far different animal than a conservative) or establishment Republicans.
But, but, geeeez.
Not one of those is running for President, puttin’ his, life, fortune, and persona on the line, for the America we love and see being guided down the toilet by the pinko dims and eunuch rinos.
Get it.
Whether Trump qualifies as a “genuine” Republican is irrelevant. He’s getting a lot of people to pay attention to a Republican field they would very likely ignore otherwise. His followers are waiting for one of the more traditional candidates to talk about what he’s talking about and to give them the answers they’re looking to hear. Few of them really expect Trump to be the nominee. What the country club Republicans are really upset about is he’s taking the air out of Jeb Bush’s campaign. Bush is just one of the guys in the pack. They don’t want anybody paying much attention to the Republican nominating process until Bush has enough cash and votes in the bag to have too much momentum to stop him.Trump is foiling them, and it’s fraught with humor.
Why is it irrelevant? After all the wailing about RINOs from the alleged base, Trump would seem to fit the definition.
Trump is getting a lot of people to overlook the other GOP candidates or pretend they don’t exist, except for Jeb Bush. A typical response to any doubts about Trump is “No Jeb!!” Another is to say that Trump is the only acceptable choice, and that no one else deserves a vote.
Trump has become the focus of an exclusive and emotional devotion that I don’t see among people who are actually pondering other candidates.
“Trump has become the focus of an exclusive and emotional devotion that I don’t see among people who are actually pondering other candidates.”
Yes, his attackers are very devoted to him. I call it Trump Derangement Syndrome. I doubt his supporters are as devoted to him as his attackers.
I wonder what would happen if all the punditocracy attacking Trump would ignore him and direct their fire at the progressives (in both parties).
I’ll “attempt” to “answer”. So good of you to condescend to to ask for a answer when you really don’t care.
You’re part ot the problem. You don’t think we recognize that you, Will, and your ilk have deemed to come down into the slum to edumacate us po, dumb, clingers, about the proper, compromisin’ attitude so’s Y’all can steal and keep the just desserts that we need youse guys to keep fundin”.
You “Will, and other Trump skeptics” see no problem with the “folks” in America being lied to, defrauded, stolen from, disrespected, murdered, and our quality of life being eroded by fence sitting, lying, immoral, unethical, thieving, establishment elitists from their fenced communities and safety envelopes paid for with our taxes. If you mention Trump, in includes: by virtue of his courage in not being PC, not being afraid to say islamic terrorist, and addressing illegal immigration turning our country into a 3 world. ESAD.
Cruz/Palin ’16
The people have spoken and Trump is in the lead….
We just want change and that change is non establishment control of our leaders. -jwcody
Shame on you, Fuzzy!
These Trump posts are proven click-bait. It barrel-fish shooting time!
You are standing so close to the barrel that some splash might wet your powder. Just saying.
Ever wonder just how someone like Romney became the nominee when he had such lukewarm support from the electorate? Sundance, over at The Conservative Treehouse, spells out how:
When Trump speaks of the GOP and Citizens United he is putting sunlight upon something almost NO-ONE was, or is, paying attention to.
…
Without Super-PAC’s the campaigns of Jim Gilmore, George Pataki, Lindsey Graham, Mike Huckabee, Rick Perry, John Kasich, Carly Fiorina, Rick Santorum and Chris Christie cannot exist. If those candidates had to rely on financial support from the electorate, they could never be in the race. They are only in the race to split votes and support Jeb Bush.
…
Take away the Wall Street funded GOPe Super-PAC’s and their entire strategy to nominate Jeb Bush falls apart. This is McConnell and Donohue’s ‘Achilles heel‘.
Any campaign that has to rely on electoral support, actual or financial, will fail. That means the GOPe, to achieve their goal, have to construct campaigns that don’t rely on electoral support.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/08/15/trump-gives-a-glimpse-of-the-golden-arrow-targeted-toward-mcconnelldonohues-achilles-heel-intensely-strategic/
George Will is part of the GOP Elite, which means he part of the problem. Not Trump.
The GOP and Chamber of Commerce plan was to float a huge number of candidates to divide the conservative vote and get a liberal nominee/ticket like Jeb/Carly and squelch Cruz and Carson.
Jeb, Carly, Graham and Christie are the least conservative candidates: https://www.conservativereview.com/2016-Presidential-Candidates
The GOP/CoC didn’t count on Jeb lacking appeal and ability to communicate message.
And they did not count on Trump.
Citizens United has more than ever made it possible for the big donors to own the candidates/politicians their millions elect.
Trump isn’t taking these donations with strings attached.
All this is getting the PTB and media in a state of panic.
Another fun fact: Fox News is Hillary’s 9th largest donor.
Not unusually, Unc., you got it wrong.
Fox News it NOT Hellary’s 9th largest donor. You have to read MUCH more carefully, and look under the hood when people tell you shit.
It’s the parent company, which includes 20th Century Fox, the Hollywoodies, that’s a big donor. Just like Disney and the rest.
Rags, I have been reading your BS for years. You were full of it before this election cycle and nothing has changed. You sir are an idiot, STFU.
Suck me.
Rags: your comments enrichen this blog. Keep it up.
Ragman has something to say about everything and everyone – and then some.
Like a stopped clock, there’s the occasional moment of wit or logic – but most of the time his lack of self-esteem and demonstrable paucity of a real life are betrayed by his foolish snark and faux dialects.
He says “suck me’ and one has to wonder if anything could be located to fulfill his wish.
Overcompensation, thy name is Ragman.
Rags, I agree with Milwaukee. Your comments embiggen us all. And you have the facts straight about Fox and contributions to the Left.
Jeb, Carly, Graham and Christie are the least conservative candidates:
Now, if you argued that Carly, Graham and Christie and Kasich and Rick Perry, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, George Pataki, Jim Gilmore, and whoever else you don’t like were in a conspiracy to help Donald Trump! you’d at least have an argument that made mathematical sense.
You can ake an argument that the Club for Growth and otehrs are hedging their bets, but havinbg all these people in the race makes Trump look stronger than he is to people who don’t study the polls.
Thank you for posting this, Kitty.
Sundance, over at The Conservative Treehouse,;
Maybe true, under current, post-Watergate campaign finance laws.
Which severely limit the size of campaign contributions to a candidate.
George Will is very much against these limits, or at least the levels where they are.
They are only in the race to split votes and support Jeb Bush.
What a lie! (or misunderstanding of the facts) How much can a person twist things?
Splitting the moderate vote helps Donald Trump, not Jeb Bush.
The man they don’t want is Cruz. He’s ALWAYS been Conservative, and they can’t control him. Had he not announced, the rest of the pack would not have. He did, and every going nowhere GOPE piker came crawling from under his rock. The problem is, the GOPE no longer knows what a Conservative is, and doesn’t realize that the only Conservatives in the race are Cruz and Jindal. The one Conservative who can enter the race and blow things up for Trump and mess up the race would be Palin. Cruz, Walker, and possibly Fiorina owes her, but you can’t trust the GOPE to leave the dance with the ones who brung them. If Palin enters the race and takes over Trump’s lines—she’s written an awful lot of policy stuff—it’s a huge game changer.
As for all those who said the LSM and GOPE destroyed her, this answer: Orrin Hatch, John McCain, Pat Roberts, Scott Walker, etc. She sure packs a lot of power for someone who has no power, credibility, is a figure of fun, and whatever Palin-haters want to say. Palin enters the race, the existing field is toast, and Hillary, too.
Thank you Kitty, for a succinct, palatable, and most edifying explanation.
You’re a jewel in the fray.
Trump’s followers may very well be ‘xenophobic’ – harboring a deep resentment of both Boehner and McConnell, and the rest of THEIR ilk.
George Will is a bloviating narcissist in love with his own manipulation of language.
Some of us are old enough to remember – George Will said the same things about Ronald Wilson Reagan.
The GOP enabling and even participating in Obama’s lawlessness and perfidy and joining Obama in disrespecting conservatives are the reason we need an outsider as POTUS once again.
SOME of us are old enough to remember things that didn’t happen.
“Will helped Ronald Reagan prepare for his 1980 debate against Jimmy Carter. Immediately after the debate, Will—not yet a member of the ABC News staff—appeared on ABC’s Nightline. He was introduced by host Ted Koppel, who said “It’s my understanding that you met for some time yesterday with Governor Reagan”, and that Will “never made any secret of his affection” for the Republican candidate. Will did not explicitly disclose that he had assisted Reagan’s debate preparation, or been present during it. He went on to praise Reagan, saying his “game plan worked well. I don’t think he was very surprised”.
Will is a libertarian-leaning conservative, and he’s never shy about criticizing things or expressing his opinion as a contrarian.
SOME of us are willing to remember things that did happen: I saw Patrick Buchannan’s “red meat” speech at the Republican convention, and its subsequent, devastating effect on the party.
Then there was Ross Perot.
None of that turned out well.
Will criticized Reagan candidacy in print – maybe he changed his mind later after talking with Reagan.
Will will change his mind about the ‘vulgarians and George Wallace’ supporters who are desperate for an anti-McConnell, anti-Boehner type candidate who will restore sanity and reason to the government and rid the country of the plague of lawlessness and illegals, many Islamists, flowing non-stop into the counrty?
It certainly wouldn’t be Jeb or Carly.
George Will, a man after my own heart: “a libertarian-leaning conservative, and he’s never shy about criticizing things or expressing his opinion as a contrarian.”
And, Will’s a die-hard fan of baseball. I grew up with baseball north and south of me in Chicago.
The fact that Trump is now center stage tells me that the electorate has dumbed down substantially.
Entertainment, pop-culture’s pimp, has seduced and suborned all takers.
What’s left of conservatism (and our culture) is being devalued quickly. We as a nation have a serious shortfall of conservative values.
We have exchanged a solid gold standard of conservative values for a software fiat Bitcoin culture.
Are you serious? We haven’t had much of a conservative culture since before Nixon was elected. And if Georgie is after your heart, I’d advise not to be too flattered.
“Are you serious? We haven’t had much of a conservative culture since before Nixon was elected.”
What the heck do you think was stated when I said, “What’s left of conservatism (and our culture)…” Are you dim witted?
“And if Georgie is after your heart, I’d advise not to be too flattered.”
Better George than you.
It really sounds like the GOPe are all pissy because the people aren’t falling in line and uncritically supporting their golden boy Jeb. And lest anyone think they’ll be satisfied with purging Trump and his supporters, let me remind you that practically every name on that list is none too fond of conservatives, such as Ted Cruz. If you have any doubts about that, just remember how they’ve pissed away the off-year election victories with “bipartisan compromise,” surrendering the power of the purse, and emasculating Congress by giving up the treaty power.
Today their cry is “Get rid of Trump and his supporters!” Tomorrow it will be “Get rid of the tea party! Get rid of the conservatives!” They mock conservatives for having an “ideological purity” test, but don’t be fooled – they’ve got their own “ideological purity” test, and anyone who can’t pass that shibboleth is a knuckle-dragging mouthbreather who is not all that important anyhow. So much for the “big tent” ~
Read your rant when you are not all wee-weed up, prince.
It’s more than a little…unhinged.
Will is a conservative from WAY back. Among his targets for harsh criticism was the John McAnus presidential campaign.
We don’t want ThoughtPolice or group-think here. Do we?
Rags, you err if you think I’m a Trump supporter. But I do object to this irrational fear of all things Trump. Trump raises a lot of issues that people are concerned about, and the GOPe would do well to pay attention and takes notes as to *why* Trump enjoys his current surge of popularity. I don’t care what kind of conservative bona fides Will might have possessed at one time – the question is how he conducts himself presently.
I stand by my comments regarding the GOPe and their animus towards conservatives.
I used to have more respect for you, Rags. Let me know when you’re not all wee-weed up ~
I’m not bumping heads with you regarding the GOPe, prince.
I’m right there with you, I just don’t make the leap that takes me into the arms of Mr. Trump, and don’t consider anybody who blasphemes against him my enemy or a RINO or any of the other silly names I’ve been called lately.
If you read my posts, you’ll find there’s nothing irrational about my positions on Trump. I just won’t suspend critical thought about the man.
I even AGREE with you that the GOPe should take a lesson here, but I DON’T agree that Trump is saying anything new or swell. We have WAY better people who are making those points. The GOPe candidates should…IMNHO…drop out of this race. I don’t see a chance in hell that Jeb will win, for instance, with the kind of passion against him from the CONSERVATIVES like me.
Dittos.
George Will is a Country Club Republican, the perfect example of the New England liberal wing of the GOP. I don’t think your definition of conservatism means what you’re saying it means.
So let me guess – we’re now on George Swill Establishment Standard Time, right? Conservative to him means he doesn’t wear plaid golf shorts any more.
If I couldn’t be less establishment than Swill, I’d volunteer to be executed.
Will, has evolved.
The conservative Republican party you remember used to at least try to further policies that were good for America.
They no longer do that. It’s the party of and for the .01%, political whores that give butkus for us folks and our magnificent country.
Purges are best done during a quiet period when those purged have no idea what happened.
I think it’s pretty clear that Will was playing “stir-the-pot” with some of his stuff.
He’s a very bright, very well educated and aware feller, and he knows you can’t “purge” the GOP of anything in the world of practicality.
IF that were possible, a lot of us would like that party to purge Colon Powell and others like him, though it’s none of my business. I’m not a Republican.
But you just don’t drum people out of a political party when being a voter is a matter of…very rightly…a choice one makes from year-to-year.
And when the choice in a given year is “evil” vs. “less evil,” the only responsible course is to check the box for “less evil.”
Some voters are wont to ask, “What does it get us to keep voting for the lesser of two evils?” The answer is obvious: “It gets us less evil than we would otherwise have.”
Some commenters on this board seem more intent on smashing and destroying “less evil,” out of pique at not having a choice they like better.
So generous of you to identify the “responsible” course for us po, unedumacated, clingers, what drive pick’em up trucks and hold a visceral disgust for our self selected betters.
When “less evil” aids and abets “evil” it is the enemy of “good”.
America is good. The only purge that makes sense is of Will, his ilk, and their enablers.
God Bless America.
I agree. I think Will wanted to “stir the pot” with his opinion. And why not? Should we just lay down and surrender to the Trumped-up Donald?
I see a lot of comments that reveal a new breed of thin-skinned conservatives who aren’t much different than infantile identity politic wimps of the left.
George Will’s opinion weighs equally with Trump’s opinion on a First Amendment scale even when Trump tries to tip the scale in his favor with his beaky braggadocio.
GOP enabling every Obama initiative and lawless act and GOP disrespect for conservatives is the reason for Trump’s candidacy.
GOP were given first the House and then the Senate and still refused to stop Obama.
The GOP are getting exactly what they deserve. If they do not repent, reform and become an effective opposition to the leftist takeover, the GOP may go the way of the Whigs.
Ted Cruz, Unc.
Not Mr. Establishment. Not the American oligarch and reality show actor.
Cruz was my first choice…but the GOP have intentionally stacked the primary race against Cruz and Carson.
Cruz is running a safe, smart campaign building solid support gradually, yet there are strings attached to some of Cruz’s funding.
The smart Republican candidates, like Cruz, will desist from attacking Trump, but will allow Trump to be on the front line as a battering ram to put the issues out there front and center.
Will Trump stand up to the BGI/BLM/FTP/NBPP/NoI, GLBTXYZ/multi-gender, CAIR/MB and other assorted PC bullies being funded by leftists and foreign interests which have had such detrimental effect on religious rights, unity, peace, law and order?
We are just on the first lap of the race – 11 more debates to go – many miles, months and polls to go.
– Twelve years ago, in August, Joe Lieberman led in the polls of the Democratic primary.
– Eight years ago, in August, Rudy Giuliani maintained a clear lead in polls of Republicans, while Hillary Clinton led in polls of the Democratic nomination contest.
– Four years ago, in August, Mitt Romney began with the lead in polls of Republican voters, but he would be surpassed by the end of the month by Rick Perry.
(h/t comment at IOTW)
None of the aforementioned candidates were Donald Trump.
I don’t have a crystal ball but no one has seen a GOP candidate like Trump.
Perhaps the other GOP candidates should be held to vowing to support Trump in the event he is nominated.
Wouldn’t that kick up a dust storm.
Imagine a future where Trump is the GOP nominee and wins the 2016 election and becomes the Leader Of The GOP…
Makes my head swim imagining raging RINOs behavior thus revealing to the general public what we have known about them all along.
The thought of that makes me laugh out loud.
…head swimming.
…hysterical laughter.
Symptoms.
“the GOP have intentionally stacked the primary race against Cruz and Carson”
Who exactly did this stacking? Did a GOP Central Committee order certain people to run so as to take support away from Cruz and Carson specifically? Which candidates were placed in that role? Would the candidates most likely to take support from Cruz and Carson be happy to obey dictates from “the GOP” for that purpose?
It’s hard to figure out what people really mean when they say “the GOP” did this or that.
“It’s hard to figure out what people really mean when they say “the GOP” did this or that.”
Read this and you will know:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/08/09/gope-2016-road-map-to-victory-tree-house-challenge/
I saw Will a few weeks ago talking about the ineffectiveness of the Republican takeover of Congress and even though we might not like what Boehner and McConnell are doing that is the way Congress is supposed to work. As obama once said “If they bring a knife to the fight we bring a gun”. By Boehner and McConnell bringing their knives to the fight while obama has brought his gun. We want our champions to fight the way that is necessary to win and not fight by rules that are being ignored by the other side. Will and Krauthammer both are a little too far removed from the “Base” of the Republican party to make judgments on us. For all of this Will nonsense, Trump may turn out to not be the “One” but he has built a fire under most of the other candidates and for that I will be eternally grateful.
So far Trump has proven to be ten times more masterful at getting attention on the right topics than the DC based elected class AND professional class/punditry has been since 2008. They have failed miserable even on top of stumbling into scoring electoral victories. The quality of leadership post-victory is so bad that nearly 30% of voters or likely voters are willing to admit they prefer Trump over 16!! other candidates “acceptable” to the political and professional class in DC. And that outwardly is starting to upset the Washington professional class because they see the loss of control. Funny that Will mentions National Review. They seem to be the leader of the anti-Trump charge.
As noted by another poster, the super-PACs are evidence that this cabal of elected and professional class is losing the interest of the constituency. And they are getting nervous about it, but attacking the messenger and not the message.
“Many are no doubt lightly attached to the political process, preferring entertainment to affiliation.”
Wouldn’t that mean they are among The Holy Sainted Independents the Republican candidate “must win”?
That quote even has a little Orwellian tone to it. You could easily think the word conformity fits nicely in place of affiliation especially once you read all that Will has written. Without a huge leap in reasoning.
That more than half of them are not even registered to vote suggests they are not political independents.
The ones I have met ate politically indifferent know-it-alls who stand Teddy Roosevelt’s advice to speak softly but carry a big stick upside down. They and their preferred candidates bluster then call all those who disagree with that bluster names. But on the only day when it really matters – election day- they stay home. The usual explanation is that the system is rigged and they won’t stoop to participate in any election in which their preferred candidate is certain to lose.
I am no fan of Donald Trump.
I am no fan of the RINO establishment either.
But I am fed up with Obama & Co.’s lawlessness.
I am fed up with all the DemocRat un-American shit.
Anyone willing to stop Obama and his ilk is welcome as an ally. We can sort out differences later.
A candidate who raises emotions and rouses those convictions will inspire a lot of new registered voters and inactive voters to actually show up at the polls.
A GOP consultant recently said in the last election only 15% of registered Republicans actually voted. Historically, Romney always suppressed the vote whenever he was on the ballot.
George Will, Tom Donohue, Priebus, McCain, McDonnell may wet their knickers when the unwashed crazies, vulgarians, George Wallace types and wacko birds inside and outside of the GOP rise up to vote their convictions:
– against the GOP establishement wussies who have failed to stop Obama
– against GOP establishment liberal candidate
– against Hillary and her long corrupt history
– against Sanders/socialism
– against Obama policies/Arab Spring
– against Global Warming carbon tax scam/nonsense
– against long history corruption and lies of both parties.
There may be a Tsunami of reaction against business as usual in DC and UN. I sure as hell hope so.
Correction – McConnell
Will’s logic is self-contradictory:
If the Trumpkins are only “lightly attached to the political process,” then there’s no danger in letting them stay since they won’t vote anyway.
OTOH, if Will is incorrect then he will have just alienated a large voting bloc.
Additionally, Trump draws attention to the debates generally which results in attention for the other candidates.
“But the assumption that today’s Trumpites are Republicans is unsubstantiated and implausible. Many are no doubt lightly attached to the political process.”
Actually, I think Will’s assumption is incorrect. Trump supporters (count me as a tepid supporter I guess) do pay attention to the political process, and we are sick and tired of being betrayed again and again by the establishment Republicans.
The question is: Is a Trump candidacy as a Republican worth the potential electoral costs in order to clean out the party?
(Another question: if Trump DOES win the nomination, will establishment Republicans run a third party candidate?)
In summary; here’s a handy clip and save for the refrigerator:
========================
= Trump = WINNING
=
= George Will = LOSING
========================
Astute observers see no change in status if Will continues
to write stupid stuff like this column.
Dear establishment republicans: Shut. Up.
Stop talking about ideological purges.
Stop calling Trump supporters stupid.
Stop trying to guarantee another decade of progressive destruction upon this country.
Just stop.
There aren’t enough well informed, politically tuned in voters in this country to get any candidate elected from either party. If you continue to alienate everyone but the wonks, you won’t have to worry about future elections because you won’t have a party any longer.
Amen!
I agree that Trump’s political principles are rather fluid (to put it nicely) and his motives questionable. I also agree that many of his supporters have displayed a curious indifference to his inconsistencies and blustering ego.
But if Gerson et al. want to diminish Trump’s support, the first thing they need to do is stop flinging terms like “xenophobic” at anyone who wants our current immigration laws to be respected and enforced, and wants to maintain a somewhat recognizable national culture and unifying language.
We do not “resent immigrants” — if they respect our laws and culture, and make a positive contribution to our nation. We do not “resent outsiders” — unless they try to make us change our culture to be more like the places they chose to leave.
It isn’t a particularly “European right-wing” mindset to wish to maintain the basic aspects of a familiar and agreeable culture; it’s a fairly universal desire.
Leftists insist that “culture” is so crucial to personal identity and well-being that individuals should be able to bring their native “culture” with them wherever they settle (which reflects a shallow view of culture). Why oh why do so many self-described conservatives reject the much weightier claim of a settled society to maintain (with small, gradual changes) the culture that has developed organically in its own home?
They need to argue against the idea of enforcement for the sake of enforcement. The problem is, they don’t know the way out of the logic trap.
The thing is, it’s not in any damnger. English is taking over the world, if anything.
and wants to maintain a somewhat recognizable national culture and unifying language
Spanish has become more and more prominent in parts of the United States, and in public amenities. (“Press 1 for …”). People are being denied jobs because they don’t speak Spanish. Ballots are being printed in more and more languages. The idea that a nation should have a common language is being frontally attacked.
Meanwhile, Mandarin Chinese is starting to gain status as a language of commerce, the language that young people should learn if they want to be successful.
George Will:
You see, this is the problem.
Trump did have an answer, but the problem is, too people many people didn’t believe him. (and yet at the same time they didn’t accuse him of making it up)
Trump said:
He got it from members of the Border Patrol.
The same people who, last year, lied about Mexicans carrying diseases.
Trump was not making it up!
The lobby is bigger than that, but that seems to be source that they are relying on for all these variousd claim.
Supposedsly hard working honest whistle-blowing government employees.
It doesn’t mean he wasn’t lied to, and it doesn’t mean that maybe he knows better, but he wasn’t making it up.
The propaganda came from a government employee’s union.
That would gain over 25,000 new members from Trump’s proposals.
The difference is, this is a whole lot bigger than the John Birch Society. Big enough maybe to throw the election to Hillary Clinton, (if she’s still running) if Trump runs as a third-party candidate and the Republican nominee misplays this.
This says it all; it’s why I am supporting Trump:
http://moonbattery.com/graphics/gop-gop-voters.jpg
Most everyone is lightly attached to the political process, George. Particularly this week.
I’m not going to wade into either Trump-mania or Trump-phobia. He’s not my cup of tea but if others like him, fine, vote for him and we’ll see where it sorts out.
What I object to is equating Trump to the Birchers. The latter were vile racists. Trump may be a blow-hard but he’s no hater.
If Mr. Will is such a smart political analyst perhaps he could actually sign on with a campaign. Instead, he’d rather pontificate at a liberal newspaper.
Maybe Hillary turned him down?
After all he’s already doing as much damage to the GOP as he can for free, demanding that they trash and discard 28% of their potential voters. Which states would Republicans win in 2016 with 28% fewer votes?
You cannot back up your vile accusation. You are a disgrace.
JBS is basically an anti-communist group.
Thanks for self-identifying.
TRUMP: First of all, I’d like to just go back to one. In July of 2004, I came out strongly against the war with Iraq, because it was going to destabilize the Middle East. And I’m the only one on this stage that knew that and had the vision to say it. And that’s exactly what happened.
July of 2004 seems awfully late.
March 31: 31 March 2004 Fallujah ambush: Four Blackwater contractors ambushed and killed in Fallujah, causing a First Battle of Fallujah.
April: Beginning of the Iraq Spring.
April 4: Beginning of violent clashes between the coalition and followers of Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, which will end at the end of August 2004.
April 18: Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse; Beginning of the diffusion of images of humiliated Iraqi detainees by US soldiers in Abu Ghraib.
By the middle of April, there were an awful lot of folks who were beginning to doubt the mission.
Ad nobody in the debate had the wit to point that out. Maybe because the whole idea of Trump being against the war in Iraq was new to them.
Trump made it sound like July, 2004 was before the war.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-of-the-2015-gop-debate-9-pm/
I still haven’t researched this, so I don’t know if Trump would have said: “Oh, I meant 2002” or give some other explanation.
One flaw with Ted Cruz – he wants to vastly increase H1B visas nearly 600% which will give immigrants jobs that rightly/justly belong to US Citizens.
“Cruz, who announced his presidential bid this morning, once proposed an immediate increase in the base H-1B cap from 65,000 to 325,000. Cruz offered the H-1B increase as an amendment in 2013 to the Senate’s comprehensive immigration bill. Cruz’s amendment was defeated by the Senate’s Judiciary Committee, which approved an 180,000 H-1B cap increase in the comprehensive immigration bill. The House never acted on this legislation.”
http://www.redstate.com/2015/05/22/h1b-visas-scott-walker-will-fight-american-workers-senators-cruz-rubio-much/
Under Obama most new jobs have gone to illegals/immigrants – because of tax break for hiring illegals – and Obama has even sued companies for not hiring illegals – just part of the fundamental change he promised.
Trump has published his Immigration platform on which he and Senator Sessions collaborated and those who have had an early glimpse of his tax plan are impressed and say Trump is a serious candidate.
Trump is excruciating for the entrenched elite…and it is most enjoyable watching them writhe and shriek.
Cruz isn’t perfect, but he’s still the best. Plus he’s a lot smarter than the Trump-haters.
I was pretty unhappy that he initially backed Obamatrade too, but I think he explained well how he had been taken in by McConnell’s lies.
Saying that Trump has major flaws as a presidential candidate is not the same as hating Trump. Attaching the label “Trump-haters” to people who criticize his candidacy is just a way of trying to put such criticism beyond the pale.
I see something more like hate coming from those who react viscerally against any criticism of Trump.
So has anyone asked George Will if he will fully back the Republican nominee in 2016 if it is Donald Trump?
Has George Will been making noises about supporting another candidate, or not voting at all, if the Republican nominee is not his first choice?
OK, Trump flip-flops. I get that. But what conservative Republican in Congress has either not flip-flopped, or worse – once in office simply abandoned principles and forgot promises? Trump, at least, may actually do what he promises, even if he has flip-flopped on particular issues in the past. Or at least, it’s a major part of his appeal that he might keep his promises. Too many GOPe politicians are no longer trusted to do so.
George Will belittles the Trump supporter as someone with little attachment to the political process. I don’t believe that is his genuine belief. If it were, why all the Sturm und Drang over someone who doesn’t command the party’s core or its grass roots, and who has the attention of the party’s low information voters? (As they were called by NYT columnist David Brooks. You know there’s something wrong when the NYT and George Will are both taking potshots at a candidate’s supporters with similar derisive terminology.) Too much is being made of Trump by his Republican detractors for me to believe that they don’t consider him an actual threat to control the party’s voters. This means that they understand he commands a threatening (to the GOPe) portion of an electorate that would like to vote for a real conservative candidate, and, not having one, are willing to settle for the faux conservatism of Trump. So why won’t the party give the people a real conservative, with real political chops, and take the wind out of the Donald’s sails? We know the answer to that question – nominating an actual conservative candidate is not part of their agenda.
Purges are stupid, no matter who you are trying to purge. And Stalinist in nature. Forget it, it’s a bad idea that is unnecessary.
By the time anyone votes in Iowa, NH, & SC, voters in those states will have been fully informed of Trump’s liberal Democratic history and the general silliness of his statements. He’s not going to win anything.
– –
Thanks for the software which spared me all the other comments except DaveGinOly’s. The Trump stuff is becoming tiresome.
Thinking about it who voted to have George Will the power to define what the Republican party is and who can be Republican voters?
George Will has made a career out of being wrong. Yet he gets the smart guy treatment on various news channel panels. Maybe it’s because he looks so nondescript that people forget what he actually has said and advocated.
Oh and why doesn’t he disclose that his wife works for Scott Walker?
Pat Caddells polling outfit noticed that between 25% and 40% of the GOP base was willing to just walk away from the party entirely, citing the poor leadership of McConnell and Boehner.
I honestly, think that if they did walk away, their political 3rd party might outpoll the GOP because that’s where the energy of the GOP base is. Tired old sellout retreads like George Will dont have much of a base themselves.
Will and his chamber of commerce country club establishment RINO’s can go to hell. I will NEVER give another penny to RNC or any RINO organization. I’ll give to the candidate or chose another PAC. For some reason, Boner and Our Fine Senate “leader” are afraid to say anything but “yassir” to the half-white fascist in the White House. I guess the chamber of commerce country club establishment GOT WHAT THEY PAID FOR. And if Bush or another one of the RINO’s is the candidate, I’ll vote 3rd party in a heart beat. ALL THE WAY DOWN THE TICKET! DC has become corrupt down to it’s roots and the only way I see to improve anything is a constitutional convention to put in a balanced budget REQUIREMENT and a 10 year term for ALL appointed or elected officials, from the “lifetime” judges, including SCOTUS, to all in Congress. And if Trump pulls it off, I’d vote for him over any of the “national socialist” party members.
I note that George Will’s list is mostly individuals connected with the George W Bush administration as well as neoconservatives.
Does anybody want neocons and George W Bush retreads to run things again? Wasn’t last time a disaster?
Just to set the record straight:
November 12, 1974, in the Washington Post, George Will wrote:
“But Reagan is 63 and looks it. His hair is still remarkably free of gray. But around the mouth and neck he looks like an old man. He’s never demonstrated substantial national appeal, his hard-core support today consists primarily of the kamikaze conservatives who thought the 1964 Goldwater campaign was jolly fun. And there’s a reason to doubt that Reagan is well suited to appeal to the electorate that just produced a Democratic landslide.”
“If a Reagan third party would just lead the ‘Nixon was lynched’ crowd away from the Republican Party and into outer darkness where there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth, it might be at worst a mixed course for the Republican Party. It would cost the party some support, but it would make the party seem cleansed.”
This time around in addition to the remarks in the article above, George Will has called Donald Trump supporters “vulgar, unwashed masses“ “incapable of cognitive thought or rational argument”.
It seems George Will has long dreamed of cleansing and purging the party of undesirables.
Well, his dream might come true.
Man, these are exciting times we live in.
THANK YOU, Donald Trump.
This is a great find. Will hasn’t changed a bit, always had a problem with conservatives, he is an impostor.
Will is just one of the boys in the DC ruling party.
The bifurcation of the party into the “establishment” and “tea party” factions is not new. It goes back to at lest the Dewey days, and my understanding is that it went back much further then that. Granted the names were different but the split was basically the same.
There is something new happening here. The establishment wing is now moving in open disdain of the tea party wing.
Going back to McCain’s mama telling the tea party wing to hold there nose. Then all sorts of things. Romney at least didn’t hold the tea party in disdain. But then we got Thad Cochran and the begging of Democratic voters top vote in a Republican runoff for him. Despite the fact that they knew when the general election came around, these voters would return to the Democrats. Now McCain, Graham and Will ( who used to be the opposite side ironically ) basically calling the tea party wing crazies, nutjobs or whatever else I can’t remember. Oh and to drive one of the tea party candidates out of the race, because he might actually win.
I’m sure most tea party wing Republican’s will concede a tea party type candidate will not win the California Senate, at least in the near future. Fine let a establishment guy run, better a establishment Republican then a Democrat, but only if the Republican respects the tea party wing.
The funny thing is that we can give another label to the establishment wing, the loser wing. I have actually seen it in Illinois. The establishment wing took control and in the end only one statewide office was held by Republicans. We now have a Republican governor, guess which wing he came from? ( Hint tea party. ) The House was Democrat for 40 years while establishment types were running things. Newt Gingrich got power and the Republican’s took over. Establishment types got power, and Obama took over. Not only did he take over, he got a supermajority. The party was supposedly dead till they recovered in midterms because of– you guessed it tea party voters.
The thing is that I can only see this going one way now. A formal split into a third party. Trump is not creating any of this, he is just shining a spotlight on it.
“The establishment wing is now moving in open disdain of the tea party wing.”
This is been true for years, almost since the tea party started. But what does Donald freaking trump have to do with the tea party? He was never involved in the tea party at all, in fact he was prolly one of those rich elitist progs who held his nose and laughed at us. I don’t get where he suddenly became a tea party hero. He’s a rich big government prog who got where he got by paying off the right unions, the right politicians, and stepping on little guys.
He’s one of Them, not one of Us, he never been one of Us. He got rich on the backs of Us, by greasing the right palms belonging to Them, that’s all. He not grass roots, he not conservative, he not tea party. He just some slick rich prog feeding the dumb masses what they want to hear.
Bifurcation!
It’s like O’Reilly’s word of the night here on the Legal Insurrection.
I think it would be simpler to purge George Will from the GOP and a better strategy …
so George Wills idea is to act like a Stalinist and “purge” the GOP of Trump and his supporters ? really ? somehow he managed to say something more ignorant and stupid than Trump has ever said by a factor of 10 …
George, the U.S. Chamber of Crpto-Fascist, Crony Capitalists threw William F. Buckley project of making conservatism intellectually respectable and politically palatable over the cliff as soon as it got in their way of making an extra buck off the taxpayer.
Sorry George W. we are tired of biz as usual with the do nothing RINO’s. I don’t care if he is Demo / Rep ……or Independent whatever. Time to purge Fox and you ….. and get some real news …….
George Will, is only preaching to the converted, anyway. Even those of us, who are not in love with Trump, had already tuned out the Beltway Establishment GOP talking heads, they have looked down on us for years now.
If Trump did not exist, the likes of Will would probably be trashing Cruz and HIS supporters. He would probably like to “purge” anyone whose not in love with Jeb or Christie or whatever Milktoast Moderate is patsy of the month.
Let’s be absolutely clear – Donald Trump is entirely the fault of a GOP establishment that lied to conservatives and refused to do what it promised it would do. Trump is no secret Machiavellian genius cunningly outmaneuvering his enemies from his super-classy Atlantic City volcano lair. He’s a finger-to-the-wind charlatan who will say whatever he needs to say to maximize his own personal adulation. And he would still be merely a tiresome reality TV catch-phrase generator if the GOP establishment had not treated the rest of us like dirt.
Donald Trump will be beaten, but it sure as hell is not going to be the establishment that does it. Instead, it is hard-core conservatives like me and you who are getting out there and making the case that serious conservative renewal requires actual serious conservative candidates. You know, ones who never voted for Obama or gave money to Hillary – conservatives who were conservative before conservatism was cool.
—Kurt Schlicter
…and me.
It’s entirely the fault of the GOP, and that is the real issue. Of course, they wish to portray this as a Trump controversy, rather than a problem with the basic betrayal by and dishonesty of the republican leadership. That betrayal and dishonesty is something Will has been making excuses for. Then there’s Will’s dishonesty, which reveals how tied in he is with the establishment. He is not an independent person.
So many Trump opponents are making broad claims about who the Trump supporters are. How do they know? The truth is that they have no idea. And the Trump phenomenon is too new for anyone to have had a chance to clearly profile his support.
If a political party has a right to “secure its borders”, then by extension, it has a right to secure those borders from those who flinch at doing it the geopolitical level–north and south.
I’m not a Trump supporter, but apparently am part of the “riff-raff” that shocks Wills’ sensibilities and who should also be purged under his line of thought. No problem George, I’m just registered in the GOP to be able to vote in the primary.
Of the 20 individuals named by Peter Wehner as the vanguard of resistance to Trump, how many protested the tactics used by the administration and its press operatives to drive Sarah Palin from public life by any means necessary, including legal/financial intimidation? I suspect Victor David Hanson would have done so. Matt Lewis made a big show of taking his support back. The record of the other dauphins is to depressing to list. The GOP solved its Sarah Palin Problem™ without my input, and it is welcome to deal with Trump without any resistance from me, or help.
First bifurcation, now dauphins.
This riff raff will totally edumacated enough to converse with George Will just by reading the Legal Insurrection comments.
(should he in his profundity and superiority in thought and manner condescend to float down to my level, i’m sure.)
Of the political junkies I know who are R’s or right I’s, the BULK support Trump, with Cruz a close second. These people are intelligent, well-informed and successful in life.
What I do think alarms Will even more is that R’s/D’s/I’s who aren’t political junkies are supporting Trump as well… which supports the idea that if Trump gets the nod, he wins and likely wins big.
There are people registering to vote or planning on voting for the first time so they can back Trump. That’s YUGE!
Yah. You’re right. It IS a lot like Obama voters in 2007.
Creepy…
” It IS a lot like Obama voters in 2007
Creepy”
You just kill me. Comparing the two is like comparing night and day. Trump has energized the “fed up with DC vote”, not the opposite.
It really doesn’t matter what you think of Trump. Comparing his supporters to Obama supporters is just
Creepy.
And you casting what I said as applying to all Trump supporters isn’t creepy.
It’s a stupid lie.