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Why is Fiorina still so low in the polls?

Why is Fiorina still so low in the polls?

And why is Trump so high?

As a huge fan of the very articulate and forceful Carly Fiorina, I’ve been wondering why she continues to score very low in the polls for the Republican nomination. Here’s my attempt at an answer.

I believe Carly Fiorina scores low not only because she lacks name recognition, but because she has never held elective public office and she lost the one race she entered. Even though she did well (considering it was in bluer-than-blue California,) she still lost.

Also, although she can explain her firing from Hewlett-Packard in a way that doesn’t reflect poorly on her (see this and this), the firing still doesn’t sound to the casual listener like a success story.

But far more importantly, Donald Trump—-who naturally gains more publicity from his statements and his candidacy because he is flamboyant and somewhat outrageous—has taken the spot Fiorina would otherwise occupy, that of “business-oriented political outsider who has never held public office.” He is far, far more well-known than Fiorina via his long self-promoting stint in the public eye, and is therefore a magnet for the many protest voters on the right. Supporting Trump is a twofer for anyone who’s angry at the establishment: he is not a member of the GOP establishment, and he really gets the goat of those who are.

Trump (and the publicity in the MSM in reaction to him) has also managed to focus on illegal immigration, a topic that makes many Americans particularly furious and frustrated. That is probably the source of a great deal of his support, because he is one of only a few who are finally reflecting the sentiment of much of America, when few on either side of the aisle seem ready to do so.

Is Trump sincere? Perhaps, but I happen to think his main motive is hearing the sweet sound of his own voice amplified and repeated. But others disagree, or they don’t care if he is or isn’t sincere. They like to hear him stick it to the Republicans who have played along with illegal immigration (as well as increases in legal immigration) all this time in order to placate their big business donors. Trump may be a big business guy himself, but he doesn’t depend on donor money to keep his campaign running, and that gives him a certain amount of satisfyingly blunt rhetorical freedom.

[Neo-neocon is a writer with degrees in law and family therapy, who blogs at neo-neocon.]

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Comments

CloseTheFed | July 30, 2015 at 7:37 pm

Trump is supported because he says what we all think about illegal aliens – until he decided faux dreamers deserved to stay.

You are late to the party, neo. Trump is leading in the polls because he is the only declared candidate for the Republican nomination who is not a cuckservative.

    Skookum in reply to Skookum. | July 30, 2015 at 7:45 pm

    In case the word does not define itself for you:

    “A cuckservative is a self-styled “conservative” who will cravenly sell out and undermine his home country’s people, culture, and national interest in order to win approval with parties hostile or indifferent to them.”

      Estragon in reply to Skookum. | July 30, 2015 at 7:48 pm

      As used by white supremacists and antisemites.

        Skookum in reply to Estragon. | July 30, 2015 at 8:04 pm

        As used by pro-American realists. If white supremecists and antisemites use the word accurately, too, they have the right to be correct on at least one issue, don’t they? Besides, if you have nothing better than a fallacious remark, I’ll assume you agree with the definition, too (as you must), and that it is being accurately used to describe the vast majority of the Republican ruling class (mewling class?).

          NC Mountain Girl in reply to Skookum. | July 30, 2015 at 8:17 pm

          Ig you feel so strongly about it what have you done except act troll the web?

          gasper in reply to Skookum. | July 30, 2015 at 10:01 pm

          It doesn’t make any difference what you think of the term, the media has already defined it for us – they went straight to a white supremest for his opinion. I have no love for the GOP in D.C. but this is not the way to address that issue. Do us a favor and put that word back in your word box and never take it out again. The WAPO and the various Times rags will be happy to use it. You can read about it there.

          gasper in reply to Skookum. | July 30, 2015 at 10:04 pm

          supremest = supremacist. I inadvertently gave you a thumbs down -I don’t use that tool – only thumbs up.

          Skookum in reply to Skookum. | July 30, 2015 at 11:59 pm

          Once again, NC Mt Gal, but this time in English please.

          Skookum in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 12:17 am

          Thanks for the advice on vocabulary usage and spelling, but it’s obvious that you, too, are a cuck. I could give a damn what the WaPo thinks of the word or those who use it. In fact, I haven’t bothered to find out. I do know that progressives will viciously censor any speech they find threatening. Ask yourself why this word bothers them so.

          How many illegal alien entries did your cucking sponsor today?

          Skookum in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 2:08 am

          Dave, I think “c-word” is already taken, but your point is well made. Supposed conservatives doing the work of progressives — what cuckservatism is all about.

          Are you in Olympia per chance?

          gasper in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 8:53 am

          You’re a fool groping for answers. It is you who do not understand how that word is used. Don’t presume to know who I am. In your world only you have the perfect belief. That is what makes you a fool. Keep on “cucking”.

          Skookum in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 10:15 am

          gasper,

          Such a lame cuck you are. Your behavior here loudly proclaims you as a cuckold of the Left. Keep doing their bidding, but don’t forget to take your share of the credit for fundamentally transforming our republic.

          gasper in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 10:43 am

          Trump is the candidate closest to being a Democrat running on the GOP ticket, and you laud him for being conservative. Who is being cuckolded?

          Skookum in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 5:54 pm

          gasper,

          I haven’t lauded Trump for anything. I’ve merely acknowledged his popularity being due to him not acting like the cuck you are. He recently went squishy on illegal immigration, and I suspect this will result in his poll numbers dropping.

          From my perspective I decided long ago to never vote for another cuckservative. Bush Jr., McCain, and Romney were all big losers. If the ‘Icans fail again to provide a pro-American option, I’ll either vote third party or stay home, either way I’ll await the start of the revolution.

          How long have you been on the DNC’s payroll?

          gasper in reply to Skookum. | August 1, 2015 at 12:04 am

          I take that back. You’re not a fool – you’re an undisciplined idiot. You babble and say nothing.

          Skookum in reply to Skookum. | August 1, 2015 at 7:45 am

          gasper,

          Your behavior defines you a the proud cuck for the proggie cause that you are. You are such a mindless cuckold you can’t even make a substantive contribution to the discussion.

          In addition to orchestrating and watching your political party’s decline, are you given to other forms of cucking?

        Estragon in reply to Estragon. | July 30, 2015 at 10:31 pm

        Don’t believe me. Go ask Stacy McCain or Ben Shapiro – or aren’t their credentials enough for you either?

          Skookum in reply to Estragon. | July 31, 2015 at 12:12 am

          McCain’s recent lame entry into the cuckservative discussion shows him to be a prime cuckold himself. I haven’t heard what Shapiro has to say about it; the last I tuned into him he had been manhandled by big blonde chick with a penis (or, at the very least, a Y chromosome).

          But, back to the issue. So what if white supremacists and antisemites use “cuckservative.” The word aptly describes the GOP mewling class. I’m guessing white supremacists and antisemites use the word “the,” too; that won’t stop me from using it. I bet they breathe oxygen, too; I’m not going to do so anytime soon.

          Sorry, Estragon, but I won’t be your cuck. But, you just keep feeding the cuckoo: http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.DWNah68W413ysdnUNKbQiQ&w=259&h=152&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.1.

          DaveGinOly in reply to Estragon. | July 31, 2015 at 1:48 am

          I thought only progressive attempt to control a conversation by declaring what words can and can’t be used in a dialog? Is this the “c” word?

    Estragon in reply to Skookum. | July 30, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    I’m sure Trump doesn’t want the support of the racist scum who use that term. And I’m no fan of Trump.

    Trump Is sucking the air out of the primary opponents’ sails because he’s known worldwide, he is on message and he turns attacks on him into his publicly displayed victories. His trophy count is increasing.

    It’s not Carly Fiorina’s fault. Her acumen and intellect is on full display and obviously the liberals are hoping that suppressing coverage of her will make her “go away.”

So, perhaps what Fiorina needs to do is to trash Obama’s terrible foreign policy decisions and to be very flamboyant in doing so. Swing wide and take hard shots to those targets she wants to attack.

Besides, like Trump, she’s got a great ability to focus on what she’s got to say and not on what the msm idiots are trying to get from her.

Even though she’s standing up to some of the Press, she still sounds like a female version of the Standard Establishment Politician Model 2.33.

Whereas Trump is being his bombastic self. He’s going for the gusto while all the others are going for lukewarm.

The reason Carly Fiorina is still low in the polls is because people have heard relatively little about her. Trump, on the other hand, is easily and widely exaggerated and disparaged. The media want to have a sideshow, to avoid actually talking about any policy issue.

It’s no accident that the kiddies all think “Trump hates Mexicans” and that’s all he said. Of course, what he said is that our government does not know who is coming in, and has no control of the border. That was the real core of his criticism on immigration. And then there were the other issues …. Anybody remember what they were?

Most people can’t remember what wasn’t reported.

    donb in reply to Valerie. | July 31, 2015 at 11:20 am

    The MSM (the propaganda department of the DNC a/k/a the enemedia) is ignoring Carly and selectively amplifying and promoting the Donald. The enemedia will promote two types of GOP candidates:

    1. those most easily defeated by their preferred candidate (e.g., Bush, Webb, Kasich, Romney); and

    2. those most likely to provide juicy sound bites and then implode (in the Donald’s case, from his own pomposity).

    The enemedia keep hoping Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, and Scott Walker will slip up and land in the second category.

    They keep trying to trap Carly into the latter category also, but since they keep failing they just ignore her. They are starting to give Scott Walker the same silent treatment.

    donb in reply to Valerie. | July 31, 2015 at 11:25 am

    Silent treatment is because …people can’t remember what wasn’t reported.

Paul In Sweden | July 30, 2015 at 8:13 pm

Carly has not built a nationwide campaign structure to effectively spread her platform whatever it is throughout the media and to the people at large. If you can’t build up a proper support network in the Republican Primary nobody should expect that you are capable of building a successful campaign during the general election or much less congressional support if elected POTUS.

Carly’s statements so far in the media have resonated well with me. If she gains some momentum, shows leadership and builds a campaign infrastructure which gather supporters and donors I will start to be more interested in her.

    Skookum in reply to Paul In Sweden. | July 30, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    Realistically, Fiorina is running for the VP slot. If sHrillary wins the ‘Rat nomination, having Carly on the ticket will help counter the playing of the gender card.

    Juba Doobai! in reply to Paul In Sweden. | July 30, 2015 at 11:07 pm

    What I like about Florin is how she shed the GOPE from her last campaign and came out with a set of positions that are hers. She’s not supported or messaged by them as she was last time, when she listened to them and got nowhere.

    Fiorina is incisive, has thought through her positions; handles the LSM very well. I think of her as a female version of Walker. Solid. Low key. The horse to watch.

    Trump is doing us a favor. If he goes squishy, he’s done.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Juba Doobai!. | August 1, 2015 at 2:28 pm

      He went squishy about 2 weeks ago. I didn’t expect it that fast. Some of his supporters need to catch up, but that’s probably not one of their more developed skills. Emotional, closed-minded people are drawn to charlatans like moths to flames, and flaming out he is….already.

I’m a fan of Occam’s Razor. The simplest answer it that the Republican Hair Club for Men [TM] can’t stand the thought of a woman president.

NC Mountain Girl | July 30, 2015 at 8:25 pm

It is the summer silly season for the news. Some years it’s shark attacks. Some years it’s a missing coed or interns. Other years it’s a lion. With most people not yet paying much attention to serious news it is hardly surprising that poll numbers haven’t moved for the serious candidates.

I understand Donald Trumps poll numbers – can you explain Jeb Bush’s?

Why is Carly Fiorina so low in the polls, and why is Jeb Bush so high?

I have never heard anyone say or write that they support Jeb Bush, every time his name comes up there is an avalanche of comments telling him to go away.

    Henry Hawkins in reply to betty. | July 30, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    Nsme recognition and GOPe annointment.

    Juba Doobai! in reply to betty. | July 30, 2015 at 11:10 pm

    I’m inclined to think someone is massaging the polls by polling Bushies. Nobody wants Jeb. He’s there to drown out people like Cruz, Walker, Florina. His message is incoherent and delivered in Spanish. The people listening to him can’t vote—or aren’t supposed to. Maybe they’re polling illegal aliens.

      Milhouse in reply to Juba Doobai!. | July 31, 2015 at 9:31 am

      What’s wrong with campaigning in Spanish? Since when are Spanish-speaking Americans not supposed to vote? Remember that America does not have an official language, and that there are many Spanish-speakers who are every bit as American as you are. (And I’m not just talking about immigrants. Puerto Ricans are just as American as Texans or Rhode Islanders, with the same right to vote, and their native language is Spanish.)

        Skookum in reply to Milhouse. | July 31, 2015 at 10:41 am

        “What’s wrong with campaigning in Spanish?”

        Because I and the vast majority of my fellow citizens can’t understand him when he panders to the invaders in their native language.

        “Since when are Spanish-speaking Americans not supposed to vote? ”

        When they do not have the right to vote.

        “Remember that America does not have an official language …”

        But, we should, and it should be our native English.

        “there are many Spanish-speakers who are every bit as American as you are.”

        And tens of millions that are not and have no interest in assimilating, but rather just parasitizing our culture, just like your strident cucking for the Left does.

        “Puerto Ricans are just as American as Texans or Rhode Islanders, with the same right to vote, and their native language is Spanish.”

        Puerto Ricans have no say in US presidential elections and have no representation in the Senate or House, but, sure, they can vote for their Puerto Rican politicians. The official languages of Puerto Rico are English and Spanish, although the vast majority of the population speaks no English. (Hint: Despite a century of US commonwealth status, the population has shown virtually no interest in assimilating into US culture.)

        People born in PR of two US citizen parents are natural-born citizens and are thus eligible to serve as President — unlike Obama, Rubio, Cruz, or Jindal.

          Milhouse in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 3:01 pm

          And there are millions of voters who can’t understand him well when he campaigns in English. Their votes are worth just as much as yours. It’s not as if he campaigns only in Spanish. 99% of his campaign is in English, but you complain if he takes time occasionally to address the millions of Americans who are not like you. Because you’re a racist ****.

          For your information, Puerto Ricans do vote in presidential primaries. And Puerto Ricans who happen to now live in one of the 50 states or in DC vote in presidential elections as well.

          Skookum in reply to Skookum. | July 31, 2015 at 6:30 pm

          But, any US citizens of Hispanic ethnicity who are legally allowed to vote have almost certainly demonstrated English language proficiency in order to have been naturalized. Thus, it is clear that pandering in Spanish is targeting the large population of illegal aliens who are not allowed to vote, but, thanks to Motor Voter, ‘Rat voting fraud, and the help of cuckservatives like you, they can delude themselves into thinking they can. Illegal votes are not as good as mine.

          With him campaigning extensively in Spanish most of us have no way of knowing if he is promising the invaders things he’s not telling us about.

          What does being opposed to illegal immigration have to do with racism, you dumb, shrill cuck? I’m opposed to illegal immigration regardless of the invader’s race or the language he speaks because of his ignorance of English.

          Perhaps you can inform me when Puerto Rican primary results ever affected the outcome of a party’s nomination. Hint: It never has.

          I know people of Puerto Rican ancestry or birth who vote in presidential and congressional elections, but they do so as residents of Illinois, Florida, and Texas; their PR residency is long behind them, and they have no desire to ever return, not even for a visit.

          It’s hard work trying to push all of us pro-American eggs out of the nest, isn’t it? A lot of us will refuse to go. It will be fun to watch your frustration rise.

    Skookum in reply to betty. | July 31, 2015 at 2:15 am

    Jeb Bush’s numbers are high for the same reason so many Americans are fascinated by the British royals. We failed to deport all the Tories after winning the Revolution, and there remains a segment of our population genetically disposed to submit themselves to the whims of a monarch.

    Milhouse in reply to betty. | July 31, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Cf Pauline Kael. That you and I don’t know anyone who supports him is evidence, not of his lack of support, but of the selectivity of our circles. The truth is that he was a decent governor and would make a decent president, so it’s no surprise that there are many people who support him. In a field like that of 4 or 8 years ago he’d shine.

    The reason he doesn’t get any support in groups like this one is that with the talent on display this time around we can do so much better than merely “decent”. If he ends up elected president it won’t be a disaster for America, but it will be a missed opportunity. It will be settling.

      Skookum in reply to Milhouse. | July 31, 2015 at 10:48 am

      Geo. HW and Geo. W were not decent presidents. Their lame leadership gave us Clinton and Obama, respectively, eight miserable years of each. Jeb will be much worse. Would he be better than sHrillary? Hell, you or I would be better than her, but Jeb will only manage the decline of America a tad more efficiently than she would.

Henry Hawkins | July 30, 2015 at 9:01 pm

As an outsider to Washington and to the GOP establishment, and holding no political office, Fiorina does not enjoy the support and assistance other GOP candidates receive. At this point in the campaign, name recognition is a primary factor in polling. I suspect much of Trump’s support is more anti-GOPe than pro-Trump. I know I enjoyed the hell out of watching Karl Rove on Fox with Greta Susteren tonight stuttering and twisting himself into knots trying to sink Trump with his white board schtick.

Fiorina knows she’s a tortoise in this race, that she’ll have to slowly build a campaign presence over the long haul. As I recall, at a similar time before the 2012 election, Herman Cain was leading the polls in the GOP, so we see how much early polling matters.

If Fiorina cintinues her current path and pace, and there are no surprise scandals or fatal gaffes, she’ll move up in the polls eventually. She has a remarkable TV presence, is obviously one sharp cookie, and brooks no bullshit from the media, which means the media will do their best to not cover her. They cannot help but see her as dangerous to the Dems.

If she is in fact presidential material, she shall overcome.

    Another Voice in reply to Henry Hawkins. | July 30, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    “Fiorina knows she’s a tortoise in this race”

    I would like to think she will be “The proverbial tortoise”. Fiorina has shown she possesses the moxie and capacity to turn back the “straw man” statements and hypothetical questions to opponents positions that are presented by inane interviewers attempting to corner her in a negative conclusive position. For that alone, you have to cheer for the “methodical tortoise” to the finish line.

    rinardman in reply to Henry Hawkins. | July 30, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    What Henry said.

    Plus, the debates could make, or break her.

    Juba Doobai! in reply to Henry Hawkins. | July 30, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    “much of Trump’s support is more anti-GOPe than pro-Trump”.

    Ding!ding!ding!ding!

    Trump is doing us a service, and many GOPE commenters can’t see that.

Briefly –>Because her 1-page website sucks!!
For a person who claims to be a “technology” candidate her website is worst and less informative the folk who run for county govt. With the hours of leadership speech videos, dozens of interview videos, her issue videos from Brietbart, dozens of other sorts of clips — they all have to be found by anyone “researching” her. Graham allows you to download a bio, why not have CF have her book available for download. Here is one of her more interesting pre-candidiate videos http://library.fora.tv/2006/10/19/Carly_Fiorina

    dorsaighost in reply to KeninIL. | July 30, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    so your support is driven by the quality of a website ? … you are the definition of a low information voter … ignorant and proud of it apparently …

      tom swift in reply to dorsaighost. | July 30, 2015 at 10:56 pm

      So … somebody who actually hunts for information on a web site is your idea of a “low information voter”.

      You seem to be putting quite a strain on the English language, there.

      MouseTheLuckyDog in reply to dorsaighost. | July 30, 2015 at 11:00 pm

      Carly is a “managerial” person with no tech skills claiming it was not her fault that a tech company she managed tanked.

      She then can’t manage the people who put up web site to the point where the site is good. It is a microcosm of her entire career and makes you think that a big part of the company tanking was due to her.

        MouseTheLuckyDog in reply to MouseTheLuckyDog. | July 30, 2015 at 11:06 pm

        PS: For her, having such a website is the equivalent of showing up to a job interview for CEO in weeks unwashed tattered jeans. It really suggests she doesn’t want the job.

      Radegunda in reply to dorsaighost. | July 31, 2015 at 12:27 am

      I think Ken’s point is whether other people can easily learn enough about her to throw their support to her.

    sturtesa in reply to KeninIL. | July 31, 2015 at 9:26 am

    In order to be an effective leader, your message has to be clear, consistent, and continuously iterated so that it reaches the masses over time. Her website is simplistic, not cluttered, and as it should be. When you search her name, plenty of research material and information about her appears, as is should be. Leaders bring people together, not divide them. Her message says this, if you listen. The Hitlery bashing is necessary, and Carly applies it to the degree needed, not more.

    Phillep Harding in reply to KeninIL. | August 1, 2015 at 7:41 pm

    That sort of website indicates to me that she does not have a competent support team. She is going nowhere without one, no matter how good or bad she might be as Prez.

    By great misfortune, Hillary seems to have a support team that is much better than I like the looks of.

dorsaighost | July 30, 2015 at 9:54 pm

Trump is staying on top because he draws fire from everyone that many people hate on BOTH sides of the aisle … then he hammers those folks hard and fast when they attack him … he doesn’t let a sound bite go unanswered … thats a lesson for all the candidates … especially in the general election … don’t apologize, hit them back hard as soon as they stick a mic in your face expecting you to cower … rip it out of the reporters hands and beat them with it (rhetorically of course) …

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to dorsaighost. | August 1, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    Really? Trump was THE last upper tier candidate to comment on the Planned Parenthood videos. It took him a week to figure out his position because he had to see which way the wind was going to blow. He finally offered some watered-down commentary about the revelations, even though this is a horrific atrocity going on right in front of us.

    Trump was always pro-abortion until he decided seriously to run on the GOP ticket, which was only because his friend, Hillary, already had the ‘rat ticket. he couldn’t care less about baby body part farms or what it says about the depravity we’ve sunk to. That’s too big of an intellectual concept for a man like Trump. He’s a hustler and a con man.

LI is doing a great job and that scares the ruling class, witness the attempt by trolls to “down twinkle” comments that go against their rule. God Bless those trolls because we won’t.

As the saying goes: “F’em all” and let Him sort’em out.

MouseTheLuckyDog | July 30, 2015 at 10:19 pm

Simple answer, because Carly is an abject failure.

During her reign HP stock fell 52%.
Over the same stock period: IBM’s stock fell 25%; Dell’s stock fell 2%; Acer’s stock fell 35%. Apple’s stock actually rose, but that was due to the iPod taking off. Trying to discount that by going back to when the iPod could first sync to a PC, Apples stock fell about 26%. In view of these facts any excuse Carly makes about her performance is just that — an excuse.

With Trump, Trump works for himself and he has made himself significant amounts of money. Now I see all the Fiorinista’s out there claiming I’m some Trump shill. I support Trump being in the race because I knew when he announced he would shake things up, and I knew that he would add popcorn value. I have also said that I prefer Walker and Cruz. When my turn comes ( middle of the pack ) I may or may not vote for him depending how things shake out. BUt I would say the same thing about Carly.

Now with

I think that Carly should just keep doing what she is doing. Certainly expand her website, but Trump will eventually flame out and even if she doesn’t make it too far, taking the long view is in her best interest. If she keeps this up consistently and she remains the only one who can do it so well, then she will be inevitable.

This may all be a product of severe overthinking. Without seeing the poll questions we can’t say; it may be something very simple, like mere name recognition. Everybody’s heard the name Trump, but Fiorina, not so much.

But, assuming there’s a bit more substance to it, then maybe …

Trump has attracted attention because he’s the guy asking what is probably the most important political question today—how can a country or culture survive unlimited immigration?

This has nothing at all to do with his qualifications for the Oval Office, or his suitability as a model American, or anything else. The question is the important thing. Even his answer isn’t terribly important; but somebody has to ask the damn question. And, for one reason or another, the other candidates don’t want to even think about it.

Fiorina isn’t asking the important question. She’s attacking Hillary. That’s all well and fine, but Hillary isn’t exactly a challenging target. Such attacks don’t get to the heart of any of the perils looming up in America’s immediate future. As for the job qualifications, Fiorina is no more qualified for the post than Hillary. Both have records of high-profile failure. The voters can pick the Heroine of Benghazi, or the Heroine of HP. Swell.

If the election was about who the next host of the Tonight show should be, Fiorina would probably clean up. But the position of Chief Executive Officer of the largest and most important corporate body in all of history? C’mon …

    Barry in reply to tom swift. | July 30, 2015 at 11:28 pm

    “And, for one reason or another, the other candidates don’t want to even think about it.”

    Only one reason, they are for the most part, in favor of illegal immigration and amnesty. But they know if they say it they will lose. So, they pretend one thing, do another. It is the republican way at the top end. Down here at the bottom end we luv us some trump.

    Fiorina – maybe a VP spot if trump is charitable 🙂

    sturtesa in reply to tom swift. | July 31, 2015 at 9:09 am

    Tom, I recommend you do more research on Carly. Pull up interviews, old debates with Barbara Boxer. The truth is, the country is in desperate need of real leadership by a person with communication skills, compassion, intellect, and style. Not saying current admin fails in all of these, but the country’s morale needs a boost. Foreign policy is a disgrace. The economy is stagnant. Citizens have been “divided” into social groups and are in-fighting. Hillary Clinton is a disgrace. The Donald is doing GOP a favor. Carly is a sleeping giant, need to give her a serious look. There is a lot more to my opinions that cannot be explained in words. Sometimes you just know. If I were Carly’s advisor, I would NOT recommend her for VP, she is truly presidential material. Everything about her is what we need, our country needs now. Not because she is female, because of what she can offer, and because (I feel) citizens are tired listening to career politicians. See her speech from Reagan Library on 27 July. It was presidential. I like the Donald, and some of the other GOP candidates as well, but my guts are telling me she has the best chance of defeating Hitlery. I should know more on this intuition after watching the debates on 6 August.

To tom swift and Barry:

Trump is not the only one speaking about illegal immigration. Fiorina is speaking about it, and you may be surprised at how tough her position is.

    Chem_Geek in reply to neo-neocon. | July 30, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    Tough? The only *tough* position on illegal immigration would include prison time for the Managers who hire illegals…

    But you’ll *never* see *that*.

      MouseTheLuckyDog in reply to Chem_Geek. | July 31, 2015 at 12:52 am

      As long long as you abolish “disparate impact” policies in the EEOC which make checking work papers too closely illegal.

      Milhouse in reply to Chem_Geek. | July 31, 2015 at 9:59 am

      The ones who come to work are precisely the ones who are not the problem. If we could know in advance which ones they are, we should give them all visas. The only problem with illegal immigration is that it’s uncontrolled, and along with the honest people who only want to work and give their families a future are untold numbers who have no intention of getting an honest job, and are coming only to prey on us, whether by crime or by welfare. Punishing those who do come to work, while leaving the criminals and parasites alone, is destructive.

    Barry in reply to neo-neocon. | July 31, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    “To tom swift and Barry”

    I don’t recall making any comment disparaging Fiorina’s stand on immigration. Perhaps you would be kind enough to point it out?

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to neo-neocon. | August 1, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    Rick Perry has the toughest and most sensible plan for immigration out of all of them. That’s why Trump attacks Perry. Perry has lived it and done the work. He also pulled in over 40% of the Hispanic vote in TX in his 15 years as governor there. They like him because he creates prosperity, is tough, fair and follows through. Out of all of them, he’d make the best president.

Umm, because she’s an utter failure at business (only successful at lining her own pockets) and a BSD 1%er MBA CEO Manager who destroyed *multiple* American companies and shipped thousands of American jobs overseas destroying American careers in the process?

Just a hint.

To Chem_Geek:

Never see it? Interestingly enough, Carly Fiorina advocated that five years ago. Take a look.

Carly Fiorina has qualities of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. Our country desperately needs what she will offer. There a many good GOP candidates that I would vote for, but I think we are ready for and need now, is a Carly.

tom swift:

I addressed you because I had noted that in your comment at 10:51 PM yesterday you had written:

Trump has attracted attention because he’s the guy asking what is probably the most important political question today—how can a country or culture survive unlimited immigration?

This has nothing at all to do with his qualifications for the Oval Office, or his suitability as a model American, or anything else. The question is the important thing. Even his answer isn’t terribly important; but somebody has to ask the damn question. And, for one reason or another, the other candidates don’t want to even think about it.

Fiorina isn’t asking the important question. She’s attacking Hillary. That’s all well and fine, but Hillary isn’t exactly a challenging target. Such attacks don’t get to the heart of any of the perils looming up in America’s immediate future.

Therefore I thought you might be interested in hearing the statements that Fiorina has actually made about illegal immigration, in case you hadn’t encountered them before.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to neo-neocon. | August 1, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Trump (his hotels) applies for visas to import cheap labor from Mexico and other places for his hotels. Those wages go back to the workers’ home countries. It doesn’t wash around in our economy. Trump pockets the savings on labor. I’m sure all the investors he dumped on in his 4 CH. 11 bankruptcies appreciate it. Of course, Trump does indeed “give back”, at least in the form of large campaign donations to ‘rats like his good friend, Hillary, and Rahm Emanuel and Chuck Schumer. Or is it just good ol’ pay-to-play?

    Anyway, he’s back-pedaled way back on immigration and has no coherent plan whatsoever. He was asked about it in a CNN interview and his response was about as coherent as Debbie Wasserman’s to Chris Matthews’ question as to what is the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist. He absolutely has no clue what he’s doing or saying, almost no self-control or impulse control, but because he banged on illegals awhile the stupid wing of the conservative movement can’t get enough of him.

    Anybody who would lower himself to suggest Oprah for a running mate or fight with the likes of Rosie O’Donnell in a public spectacle is just a whore for attention with no dignity or sense. Stupid me; I thought we wanted to restore decorum and dignity to the White House.

    So, yeah, but for this asshole Trump, Carly would be doing better because she wouldn’t be drowned out by him and stepped over by the media.

The debates are meaningless hyperbole.
Carly is a keeper.

Carol Herman | July 31, 2015 at 10:39 pm

Don’t previous losses count? Fiorina ran for Barbara Boxer’s seat. Barbara Boxer got re-elected. Why is the media allowed to choose the candidates? And, then? Forgets to discuss the history.

    “Don’t previous losses count?”

    For what? Do we really need to provide you with a history lesson on the number of politicians that lost elections before winning?

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Carol Herman. | August 1, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    CA has not elected a ‘pub to the U.S. Senate since 1988. That Fiorina only lost 55-45 is actually not a bad showing. Boxer has always been the environazi candidate, and they rule the state with an iron fist. They have so much money it’s staggering, and Boxer always gets astonishing amounts of money from them and the rest of the very wealthy CA Left.

    Instead of denigrating her for losing, she should be congratulated for having the stones to even take a run at it in that state. She’s got moxy and she’s got knowledge. She’s a good candidate. She just needs a little more flash, even though that doesn’t mean anything to sensible people. Nevertheless it sells, and it’s needed in such a large field of candidates.

    I wish Santorum, Huckabee, Pataki, Gilmore and a half-dozen more would just go away, including Bush, Trump and Paul. That would still leave a big field with a wide variety of backgrounds, talents and messages, but it’s doable. 17 candidates is a nightmare.

JackRussellTerrierist | August 1, 2015 at 1:18 pm

Sheesh, I thought this thread was going to be about Carly Fiorina and her lackluster polls. Silly me.

There are three reasons Fiorina isn’t doing well. One is bogus polling. The second is her lack of charisma. In today’s age of entertainment superficiality, you have to have some spark and pizazz to get heard. That’s why a POS like Trump gets all the attention while other good candidates are left out in the cold. The third is that there are just too many candidates.

She’s not my first choice, but she’s far from my last choice, and I’d support her. I think she’d do a pretty good job.

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