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Defense Rests in Detroit Front Porch Murder Trial, Closings Wednesday

Defense Rests in Detroit Front Porch Murder Trial, Closings Wednesday

Prosecutor Siringas’ sweeping of the jury with “unloaded” shotgun muzzle, finger on trigger, leads to gasps, immediate sidebar with Judge, request by the defense for a mistrial

Welcome back to the eighth day of the murder trial of Detroit homeowner Theodore Wafer for the shooting death of Renisha McBride on his front porch in the early morning hours of November 2, 2013.

Theodore Wafer Back on Cross-Examination

Wafer was back on cross-examination today, having taken the stand in his own defense yesterday (for details see here: Homeowner Takes the Stand in Detroit Front Porch Murder Trial). Cross examination was continued by Assistant Prosecutor Athina Siringas.

Cross had left off yesterday afternoon with a rather low-key playing of interview video of Wafer that day at the Dearborn Heights police station—a rather odd move by the prosecution, as it left the jury to dwell all evening on the rather excellent direct examination by the defense that took place over much of the afternoon.

The prosecution touched upon a number of issues over the course of their cross examination of Wafer—indeed, I would argue that they touched upon too many issues, including spending valuable time on some that seem of very questionable utility in obtaining a conviction.

Although the prosecution did get to the very important issue of Wafer’s repeated statements that the shooting was an “accident,” they did so for what seemed too brief a period and with too little intensity. The only explanation that comes to mind is that Wafer’s already expressed counter-argument to this avenue of attack was perceived as too robust to be effectively overcome, and thus that a focused attack on this point would be ineffective.

Perhaps that’s why the prosecution seems to have taken more of a—sorry, but I can’t help it—more of a shotgun approach to their cross-examination of Wafer.

Of particular interest to me from a professional perspective was how the prosecution again ended their cross-examination. I’ve mentioned how yesterday they seemed to end on a rather weak note, a mere playing of the police interview videos and without serving up any real meat to the jury before dismissal for the day.

Today’s Cross Seemed Even Worse Than Yesterday’s Weak Effort

Today’s finish was, if anything, substantially worse.

First—and it’s hard to believe this even happened, but numerous eye witness accounts attest to it—shortly before ending the cross-examination for the day Assistant Prosecutor Aritha Siringas picked up Wafer’s shotgun and pointed it directly at the jury, finger on the trigger.

One assumes this was done through negligence, rather than intentionally—it would be most awkward to see Prosecutor Siringas bring charges against herself for fourteen counts of aggravated assault with a firearm.

Nevertheless, the jury was sufficiently alarmed by being swept by the shotgun’s muzzle that there were audible gasps, one jury was seen with her hands clasped to her face, and Judge Hathaway was compelled to call a sidebar and order Siringas to keep the muzzle of the shotgun pointed downward, thank you very much.

Second, perhaps it was this embarrassing misstep that led Siringas to the ineffectual, arguable counterproductive, last few questions of her cross-examination of Wafer. The responses she elicited are hardly what one would imagine a prosecutor would want to close with while crossing a defendant in a self-defense shooting case. Indeed, they are what I would expect from the defense.

Wafer’s responses (in paraphrase) tell the tale:

Events happened too quickly, the shooting was an instinctive reaction.

[Shooting] was a reaction to a threat to my life.

That is how the prosecution ended its cross-examination of Wafer. Oofah..

Issues Touched Upon by Prosecution In Cross Examination of Wafer

In approximate chronological order, the issues touched upon by the prosecution in their cross-examination of Wafer included all of the following:

Siringas suggested Wafer crafted h is video interviews with police because he knew he was being recorded. Wafer responds, “I’m just trying to cooperate.”

It is pointed out that Wafer did not tell police during interviews that he had been unable to find his cell phone. Wafer says he thought he had, but perhaps he hadn’t.

Siringas notes that Wafer did not tell police during interviews about the knocking on the side/back door of the house. Wafer responds “There was no knocking, there was pounding.”

Siringas plays tape where Wafer talks about “somebody banging on my door,” and notes he didn’t say anything about somebody breaking in.

To all of these points Wafer keeps pointing out that he was upset at the time.

Finally Siringas gets to Wafer’s contention that the shooting was accidental. Wafer says the gun discharged and unfortunately McBride was right there. He also did not tell police that McBride came from the right side of the doorway. Wafer responded, “Yes, I shot in self-defense.” He said it didn’t seem like he was aiming, the shooting was a reaction to the sudden appearance of the figure on the porch. “I didn’t point [the shotgun] at anybody’s face.”

“I shot in fear,” Wafer testifies, to which Siringas responds, “So that means you shot on purpose.” (An odd interjection, if Siringas is planning to undermine Wafer’s self-defense claim by characterizing the shooting as accidental.)

Somehow Wafer gets on the record, “The threat was coming into my house. I drew first, that’s how I see it.” He said he thought at any second someone would come into his house.

Wafer noted again the violence of the banging on his door, and noted that’s not how someone would look for help. He didn’t think somebody was trying to get his attention, he thought they were trying to beat the door down.

Siringas asked him if it was his policy to “shoot first, ask questions later?” Why did you open the door? Wafer responded that “I wanted it to end. I wanted to find out what was going on.” and “I thought they were trying to beat the doors down.”

“Did somebody enter your house,” Siringas asked? No, answered Wafer, but I thought that was going to happen.

Siringas asked if Wafer had told his defense counsel that there was no place in the house where he felt safe, and Wafer answered “Right.” (It is beyond me why Siringas would ask this question. What possible response might Wafer have made that would have been favorable to the prosecution?)

Wafer commented that he was within a couple of feet of the screen when he fired the shotgun.

Siringas asked, “You know the gun doesn’t go off accidentally, right?” Wafer responded, right. (Again, a very odd question if Siringas is to seek to undermine Wafer’s claim of self-defense by characterizing the shooting as an accident.)

Wafer describes the process by which the shotgun was raised and fired: there was no leveling of the gun or pointing, it was just a self-defense reaction to protect himself. Siringas responded with sarcasm: You got a lot of buzz words, Mr. Wafer.”

On the issue of not knowing the gun was loaded, Wafer responded that he had forgotten it was. Asked why the safety was off, Wafer responded that he didn’t recall taking it off, but that he might have pushed the safety off inadvertently while uncasing the shotgun. He noted that it was his practice to keep the safety on when the gun was in the case. (The Mossberg 500 has a tang-mounted safety that is intended to be engaged and disengaged with the thumb.)

(At this point it was observed by defense counsel Cheryl Carpenter that a juror was passing notes to a deputy sheriff in the court room. The speculation is that the jurors may have questions they wish to ask. Earlier in the trial, shortly after the state rested, Judge Hathaway had seemed to ask some questions on behalf of the jury, but soon thereafter ruled that she would no longer do so because it was unfair to the state now that it had rested. No juror questions were asked here. )

There was some dispute over the timing over when Wafer had loaded the shotgun. He has testified it was some month earlier, shortly after his car was vandalized. On the police video, however, he stated that he had loaded the shotgun when the Tigers had lost the AL Championship—a date less than two weeks prior to the shooting of McBride. Wafer explained the discrepancy as a function of the confusion after the event.

Siringas said that Wafer wanted the jury to believe that you were scared, yet you went to that front door with a loaded shotgun. Siringas told Wafer, you said you didn’t know what was going on, to which Wafer replied that it was clear to him someone was trying to gain entry to his house.

Siringas asked if Wafer was claiming his memory of the events was better now than in the hours immediately after the shooting. Wafer said it was, as he’d had time to process now.

When asked by Siringas if Wafer had sought a confrontation by opening his door, Wafer said, “No.”

The prosecution next argued that Wafer’s whole story before he got to trial was that the shooting was an accident.

When challenged by Siringas with not having told the police immediately after the shooting all the things he was now saying in court, Wafer agreed this was the case.

Siringas also asked Wafer about the fact that after the shooting Wafer had left the shogun by the open door when he went off to seek his cellphone. Yet Wafer claimed to have thought there were multiple attackers.

Wafer said he’d only hoped to end the confrontation, to which Siringas responded, “You sure ended it, didn’t you?”

(It was at this point in the cross-examination that Siringas managed to sweep the jury with the muzzle of the shotgun, and receive an impromptu gun safety lecture from Judge Hathaway.)

Here Wafer managed to get in his last couple of responses before the State rested—that events happened too quickly, and that he acted in a natural reaction to save his life.

Defense Counsel Cheryl Carpenter Returns on Re-Direct of Wafer

Wafer’s defense counsel Cheryl Carpenter came back on re-direct, and asked Wafer if he was enjoying this experience. No, he replied, it’s a nightmare, and he has nightmares about the events.

When asked by Carpenter if Wafer wished this hadn’t happened to you, he responded: Of course. I don’t know why this was brought to me. I didn’t go out looking for this.

Carpenter also asked Wafer if he’d ever stepped out onto his porch during his events, to which he responded no.

Finally, she asked him if she had ever told him what to say regarding the events that night. “Just to tell the truth,” Wafer answered.

And that was it for the morning.

Defense Requests Mistrial for Prosecution’s “Aggravated Assault” of the Jury

After lunch, but before the jury was brought into the court room, the lawyers and Judge Hathaway had some “argumenting” to do.

First, Assistant Prosecutor Siringas appeared to be arguing against any kind of Castle Doctrine instruction to the jury. It seems his actual concern was that it provided the foundation for a compelling “defense of home from intruders” narrative that is, of course, really at the very heart of Wafer’s defense.

Siringas argued that because there was no evidence of an actual invasion—no damage to the door locks, for example—and that because Wafer never stepped onto his porch, that any Castle Doctrine instruction would serve only to suggest that Renisha McBride had been up to no good on Wafer’s front porch. The prosecution’s narrative, of course, is that McBride was merely knocking on Wafer’s door in an attempt to seek help. The defense did some arguing about evidence of smudge marks on the front door, the mystery foot print on the air conditioner, and such.

Judge Hathaway did not buy it, and a Castle Doctrine instruction would be forthcoming. As the Judge noted, a person in their home falls within the Castle Doctrine, and the front porch is part of that home (per MI Supreme Court).

The prosecution also requested that a gross negligence instruction be included. By this she presumably means an involuntary manslaughter instruction, of which gross negligence is an element. Judge Hathaway indicated she would give it as a “lesser included” charget to the jury.

The prosecution also sought to have a “false exculpatory statement” instruction given to the jury. A false exculpatory statement is a kind of consciousness of guilt statement, in which the jury is instructed that a defendant lying in an effort to escape criminal liability can be seen to have done so because of “consciousness of guilt”—that is, not only does the prosecution believe the defendant is guilty, even the defendant believed the defendant was guilty.

The foundation for the prosecution’s request was Wafer’s “accident” language in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Strictly speaking an accident is a non-intentional act, and self-defense is an intentional act, and one can not have both.

Siringas is quite right, when those terms are used in their narrow legal contexts. Had Wafer raised a legal defense of “accident” he would likely have been denied the legal defense of “self-defense,” and vice versa. Siringas was trying to claim that Wafer had given two separate, inherently inconsistent theories of the case.

But Wafer was not using “accident” in the narrow legal meaning of the word, but using it as a lay person typically does—and in that usage “accident” can mean a variety of things, including not deliberate or thought out, or an act of reflex, none of which are inconsistent with self-defense.

Carpenter, naturally, argued that there was no inherent inconsistency in Wafer’s defense, if one allows for the normal, broader scope with which the term “accident” is used by non-lawyers.

It did not appear that this particular point of contention was settled in the current exchange, so we may see more argument on this point tomorrow.

Next was raised the issue of Assistant Prosecutor Anitha Siringas picking up Wafer’s shotgun, and pointing it at the jurors with his finger on the trigger. Carpenter noted that at least one juror “reacted in horror,” and that Siringas was improperly trying to instill fear into the jury. Hathaway commented that she herself had heard one juror sound shocked.

Reporters on the scene recount that while they did not see the moment the shotgun was pointed at the jury (they were taking notes), one did look up immediately afterwards and saw a juror with her hands on her face.

Carpenter requested a mistrial on the basis of this conduct. In the absence of a mistrial, she requested that Siringas be admonished. Judge Hathaway seemed disinclined to go that far, but did say that no one would be handling the shotgun during closing arguments.

Siringas’ excuses were, well, about what you’d expect. First, that he was not the only person who had handled the shotgun during the trial, plenty of others had done so, too. To which Carpenter noted that none of those others had swept the muzzle over the jury.

Then Siringas argued that it didn’t matter because the shotgun was not loaded. The irony—delicious. Wafer, too, had testified that the shotgun was “not loaded”—until he discovered that it was indeed loaded when it made a loud noise and wreaked havoc on the head of Renisha McBride. For that “mistake” Siringas had just moments ago demanded that Wafer be charged with gross negligence and involuntary manslaughter.

Finally, Siringas argued that in fact she had never actually pointed the shotgun at the jury after all, a laughable claim given the observed events and what had already been discussed—were that true, would it not have been Siringas’ first line of defense?

Nothing much more seems to have come from that wonderful example of breaking every possible rule of gun safety.

With that, the defense officially rested.

Tomorrow: Closing Arguments; Final Jury Instructions; Verdict Watch

Although some of the jury instructions had still to be decided, the majority were uncontested, and Judge Hathaway read those to the jury before dismissing them. Wafer, they were told, is charged with both second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, and they must consider each crime separately.

The jury was also instructed on the Castle Doctrine, specifically that a person does not have a duty to retreat if they believe they face harm in their own home, and that a person’s porch is part of their home.

The reporters did not note if the jury received any self-defense instructions this afternoon.

Closing arguments will be tomorrow morning, with each side allocated about an hour.

And that’s it for the day.

Join us back tomorrow morning for Day 9—almost certainly the last substantive day—of the murder trial of Detroit homeowner Theodore Wafer in the early morning shooting death of Renisha McBride, with closing arguments, final jury instructions, and then we’ll be onto “verdict watch” mode.

–-Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Andrew F. Branca is an MA lawyer and the author of the seminal book “The Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition,” available at the Law of Self Defense blog (autographed copies available) and (paperback and Kindle). He holds many state-specific Law of Self Defense Seminars around the country, and produces free online self-defense law educational video- and podcasts at the Law of Self Defense University.


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First David Gregory, now this prosecutor. The parade of people above the law continues.

If I was on the jury, I’d be livid.

    Gremlin1974 in reply to TB. | August 5, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    Is anyone surprised? Every time I see a liberal handling a gun trying to make some point, I have this involuntary instinct to mover laterally and seek cover.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to TB. | August 5, 2014 at 8:34 pm

    Oh. My. God.

    If I was on that jury, and that pros pointed a shotgun at us, I would have two emotional and one analytical reactions: 1). Horror 2). Pissed off beyond description 3). Pros is desperate

      I think I would have demanded that charges be filed against the ignorant boob that pointed a gun at me. Or at least that she be held in contempt of court. Either way I would be filing a police report.

if people were under pressure to bring this to a trial why would they perform so foolishly?
are they so sure of a conviction they are just phoning it in?
does the prosecutor perhaps not believe in their case?

Just a minor point, but Athina Siringas looks like a she, not a he. (click)

    Never mind, I see you did refer to her as “she”. For some reason, I thought on first read that you’d referred to her as “he”.

    I started out referring to Siringas as a “he,” then corrected when I realized the error. You probably saw one of the earlier erroneous posts.

    No live video from the court room causes problems. 🙂

    –Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Siringas: C’mon it wasn’t loaded
Judge: You certain? Because its obvious you are ignorant about firearms – you just swept the jury with it.

Siringas: I’m… yes, I’ve been told its not loaded
Judge: Did you check it yourself?

Siringas: No

Judge: Okay, since you’re so certain, I’m going to ask you to put the barrel in your mouth and pull the trigger. You said you were certain, right?

Siringas: Uhm…well..

Judge: Hold on a sec – Bailiff, could you go get a mop and a bucket for us please?

…What a total idiot.

I still don’t understand why they can’t (won’t) live broadcast or live stream this trial. It certainly seems like there’s been a lot of public interest in it.

Plus, if we’d gotten the clip of Siringas’ sweeping the jury with the Mossburg, finger on the trigger, live as it happened, there’d already be a dozen mashups on Twitter & Youtube 🙂

    Gremlin1974 in reply to Amy in FL. | August 5, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    While I love the fact that all trials in Florida are video’d, you have to remember you are dealing with a much more liberal area of the country. They don’t like the “bright light of day” shining upon them in those areas.

    Also, with the Zimmerman, Anthony, and Arias trials they were probably hoping to avoid the social impacts, protests and what not.

    My understanding is that on the fist day of video streaming a juror was actually shown. So Judge Hathaway put the kabosh on that.

    Also, it wasn’t working well even when allowed–never worked for me at all.

    –Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Legally, if the jury somehow convicts him (something I find highly doubtful given everything I’ve read), what are the chances of a retrial/appeal being granted on the grounds that the prosecutor unduly influenced the jury by waving the shotgun at them?

    Gremlin1974 in reply to Olinser. | August 5, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    Actually, I am really scared they are gonna tag him with Involuntary Manslaughter. For the same reason I stated above, just so they look like they did something.

    Now it is interesting that Self Defense instructions weren’t read today. Though they could just be waiting until doing the final reading.


But they’ll have other grounds for appeal.

–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Andrew Branca. | August 5, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    From what we’ve been able to glean, it seems defense counsel has done a fine job of preserving every appealable issue.

    I can’t see how Sarin gas’s little demo today could possibly have helped her case. Maybe she thought she could scare the jury into a conviction with the big, bad gun, guns being so awful and everything. It seems to me that people living in metro Detroit would understand the concept of home protection, whether they personally own a gun or not.

      Cheryl Carpenter has done an awesome job, and with a far more difficult case than Mark O’Mara was faced with.

      Fortunately for her and her client she had a crew of inept prosecutors on the other side of the court room.

      Make no mistake–Wafer was INCREDIBLY vulnerable on the issues of opening the door and “accident.” A competent prosecution would have eviscerated him on those issues.

      (I’m speaking here in professional terms, of course, not in terms of “justice” or “fairness” or any of the other things a trial has little to do with.)

      It was the prosecution’s case to lose, and it seems to me they’ve lost it. Carpenter’s defense, and frankly Wafer’s very solid performance on the stand, locked it in–I think.

      Of course, as we all know–juries can be crazy. Who knows what they will decided.

      But past on prosecutorial performance, and their burden to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt, I just don’t see how a RATIONAL jury could arrive at a conviction.

      –Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Nevertheless, the jury was sufficiently alarmed by being swept by the shotgun’s muzzle that there were audible gasps, one jury was seen with her hands clasped to her face, and Judge Hathaway was compelled to call a sidebar and order Siringas to keep the muzzle of the shotgun pointed downward, thank you very much.

I’m speechless. (And she should have been tackled to the floor by the bailiff.)

Had I been on that jury, I’d have been under my chair.

    And they’re not even eligible for combat pay. 🙂

    Just imagine–it’s almost certain that none of those jurors, in the entirety of their lives, ever had a shotgun pointed at them, finger on trigger, until they were called for jury duty and had to face Assistant Prosecutor Anitha Siringas.

    How awesome is THAT! 🙂

    –Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

      sequester in reply to Andrew Branca. | August 5, 2014 at 9:10 pm

      Do the jurors now get to go to Assistant Prosecutor Anitha Siringas home and bang on her door at 4AM?

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Andrew Branca. | August 6, 2014 at 1:32 am

      It was a downright creepy thing to do – as in REALLY, REALLY creepy.

      Maybe the judge will cite her when the case is over. She should not be able to walk away unscathed by her actions today.

      LordSega in reply to Andrew Branca. | August 8, 2014 at 3:50 pm

      Is there anything similar to this in Illinois?
      Times 12 jurists + alts…

      Oregon ORS § 166.190
      Pointing firearm at another

      Any person over the age of 12 years who, with or without malice, purposely points or aims any loaded or empty pistol, gun, revolver or other firearm, at or toward any other person within range of the firearm, except in self-defense, shall be fined upon conviction in any sum not less than $10 nor more than $500, or be imprisoned in the county jail not less than 10 days nor more than six months, or both. [snip]

So… does aggravated assault on the jury in open court qualify for immunity?

What happens if one of the jurors wants to press charges?

    sequester in reply to clintack. | August 6, 2014 at 5:47 am

    Absolute immunity usually covers civil lawsuits, not criminal acts. However ….

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to sequester. | August 6, 2014 at 1:52 pm

      The judge should cite Sarin gas for direct criminal contempt, throw her butt in jail for at least 24 hours, fine her $1,000 and refer a complaint to the state bar or whatever board oversees and disciplines lawyers in MI.

        I’m not sure any of those things would stand up on appeal, but if I were the judge I’d order her to go to the NRA and take a course on gun safety — and yes, I would specify that it must be at the NRA and nowhere else.

MouseTheLuckyDog | August 5, 2014 at 10:10 pm

Did John Guy move and get a sex change operation?

“You got a lot of buzz words, Mr. Wafer.”

“You sure ended it, didn’t you?”

Remarkable. These are the words of someone who’s seriously out of her depth and simply flailing about, hoping to fill in the silence and conceal the fact that she can’t come up with anything meaningful to say. Whatever her salary is, I suspect the taxpayers aren’t getting their money’s worth.

A claim that Wafer’s negligent handling of the gun was the cause of death (the “gross negligence” instruction – “I didn’t know there was a round in there”) may not fare too well after that episode of pointing the gun at the jury. If the Assistant Prosecutor, in court, can’t manage to follow the sacred rules of safe gun handling, can the State really demand that Wafer, woken in the dead of night by an unholy racket, should do better?

MouseTheLuckyDog | August 5, 2014 at 10:54 pm

It’s been two years since the Oracle vs Google trial, but I remember one thing. There was an issue, I believe whether Google had violated Oracles copyrights by using their API. The judge let the issue go to the jury, but decided separately ( not a JMOL ).

He did this so that later if during appeals the court ruled he should have given the question to the jury, they would have the jury verdict and no retrial would be needed.

I wonder if the judge is doing this to give the jury a chance to return a not guilty. Then if they return a guilty, declare a mistrial.

Good luck Mr. Wafer.

MouseTheLuckyDog | August 5, 2014 at 11:30 pm

Was the prosecutor trying to get the judge to declare a mistrial and get a do over?

I don’t see how the judge could have declared a mistrial without ruling prosecutorial misconduct.

I do think it adds grounds for appeal, and might possibly result in an outright mistrial.

I do think it does one thing, it causes the jury to think that the prosecutor is clueless about guns, and self defense situations in general. Particularly, she has no clue about how people strike out when in fear. That has certainly got to stick out.

    If I had been a juror, her actions would have caused me question her judgement. And left me wondering if her prosecution was incompetent. I’m certainly not taking her seriously at closing arguments (unless she goes for that shotgun again).

    Hate to ask but, is she a diversity hire? She does not belong in a courtroom.

She sounded like she learned how to be a prosecutor from watching Law and Order.

I keep thinking the prosecution doesn’t want to win this case and the politicians gave them a heads up on this. We know what the politicians fears so that had to bring it to trial.

The potential mayhem that easily might have ensued if a white man shoots and kills and unarmed black woman and no one is brought to trial.

I do not understand the point about an accidental shooting and how it undermines the defense if the state can prove it. The idea is that is the shooting was accidental it couldn’t have been in self defense as the shooter was not intending to defend himself.

First in reality in such tight quarters there aren’t any pure accidents. But besides that Wafer was downstairs at the place where someone was trying to enter his house and was holding a gun. Would the State be claiming that his being so situated was accidental?????

If I am or think I am confronted by an intruder who is behaving hostile and I have a gun and I drop it and it goes off and hits the intruder then isn’t that discharge n accident? Yes it is and its is doesn’t mean it isn’t sekf defense.

So the prosecutor asked the judge to instruct the jury they can find the defendant guilty of gross negligence. And you are trying to tell me the law is not pettifogging?

So it is true that if the prosecution convinces the jury the defendant’s actions were not self defense – and let’s say his actions are not self defense – that proves them grossly negligent?

So what actions were grossly negligent? That he secured his gun? That he took the safety off? That he stood in front of someone trying to break his door down – the State is not claiming the woman was not trying to gain access to his house and they certainly have no evidence she asked for permission to enter – that his standing there and the events leading up to it are GROSSLY NEGLIGENCE?

What negligence? What gross negligence? Doesn’t the State have to prove it? Is the law saying is the jury does not believe it was self defense that it is ipso facto gross negligence?

    Gremlin1974 in reply to Guy. | August 6, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Look at it this way.

    1. Most of the time shooting and/or killing someone is against the law, whether it be intentional (i.e. Murder) or accidental (gross negligence).

    2. The rest of the time it is Lawful use of deadly force due to the reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm (Self Defense).

    So when you claim self defense what you are in effect saying is; “Yes, I shot and/or killed this person, but it was in self defense.”

    If the state can prove do a jury that is wasn’t self defense then what are you left with? “Yes, I shot and/or killed this person.” If you loose the second part of that sentence it is in effect you pleading guilty to a crime of some kind. It is then up to the jury to decide if it was Murder, gross negligence, or whatever.

    Char Char Binks in reply to Guy. | August 6, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Wafer was negligent in not noticing that McBride was a black teen in a hoodie.

First two rules of gun safety.

1. Treat every weapon as if it’s loaded.

2. Don’t point a weapon at someone, unless you intend to shoot them.

This idiot should be charged with an offense (negligent endangerment of a jury).

    SRaher in reply to Tank. | August 6, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Third rule of gun safety:
    3. Don’t put your finger inside the trigger guard (and on the trigger) until you are ready to fire.

I forgot to say thank you for the great job you do on these trials, Andrew. You are THE go to guy for intelligent analysis (there’s way too much of the opposite).

Richard Aubrey | August 6, 2014 at 9:41 am

I have no idea how many self-defense defenses go to trial nor how what proportion are successful. There must be any number which are not tried or pled when the prosecutor decides either it was legit or for other reasons cannot be won.
High profile trials in weak cases resulting in acquittals will, imo, have some effect. Are prosecutors going to get smarter about which to try? Are potential jurors getting an informal education in the subject? Will a substantial number of the public think the self-defense defense is too easy to claim?

    Generally speaking, very few “good” self-defense cases go to trial. As much as prosecutors love to win, they hate to lose even more, and a robust self-defense claim is very, very difficult to win when the prosecution has to defeat it beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Of course, the vast majority of so-called self-defense cases are NOT “good” self-defense cases, but “bad” self-defense cases involving a defendant with a long criminal history, a lot of evidence of guilt, and a very weak self-defense claim.

    These go to trial all the time, where the self-defense claim is eviscerated, and unfortunately these cases are therefore the source of almost all case law on self-defense.

    That’s also why even criminal defense attorneys tend to have little experience defending a “good” self-defense case–which, it turns out, is quite a different matter than a “bad” self-defense case.

    For example, can you imagine Wafer having taken the stand if he had a criminal history of violence?

    All that said, then you also get the politically-motivated trials like Zimmerman and Wafer (does anybody believe this would have come to trial had Wafer been a 55-year-old black man living alone?).

    That’s when you get the kinds of self-defense cases we tend to cover at Legal Insurrection, with relatively weakly founded prosecutions, lots of emoting by the state, lots of pounding on the table, and so forth. (We don’t cover “bad” self-defense cases–at least, I don’t–because they’re boring, open-and-shut.)

    –Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

MouseTheLuckyDog | August 6, 2014 at 2:42 pm

Does anyone think this is a jury that might come to blows? Seems to me if that ever happens in deliberations, this jury could be well situated for it to happen in.