Today began with the expectation that it would the the day on which the State rested its case. That proved true, and it was. It was also among the most bizarre and disturbing days of a lengthy trial full to the brim with bizarre and disturbing days.
Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s Mother
The first State witness of the day was, as anticipated Sybrina Fulton. She had two missions for her appearance: (1) identify the screamer in the background of the Jenna Lauer 911 recording as her son, Trayvon Martin; and (2) avoid saying anything nice about the reputation or character of her son that would open the door to the defense introducing into evidence Martin’s history of violence and drug use. She accomplished both.
Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s mother, Part 2
Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s mother, Part 3
There was never, of course, any question that she would say exactly that, nor that the defense would fail to point out the suggestive conditions in which the identification initially took place–in the Mayor’s office, surrounded by family and family lawyers/advisors, and without any law enforcement officer present. Ms. Fulton’s credibility was also substantively damaged when she claimed that she had not known before hearing the tape that it was believed to contain the sound of her son’s last, desperate screams. That the persons responsible for playing that tape would not have prepared her beforehand for the shock–to not do so could only be described as monstrous.
Jahvaris Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s Half-brother
Next up was Martin’s half-brother, Jahvaris Fulton, also a son of Sybrina Fulton. He testified on the stand that the screamer was Trayvon Martin. On cross-examination, as so often has happened to State witnesses, the credibility of his testimony quickly vanished. Defense counsel O’Mara pointed out that two weeks after first hearing the recording played Jahvaris was still stating to reporters that he wasn’t sure that the recorded screams were those of Trayvon. When pressed, his answers became a series of “don’t know,” “not sure, ” can’t remember,” almost as if he’d been pushed outside the boundaries of the coaching for his testimony.
Jahvaris Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s half-brother, Part 2
Jahvaris Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s half-brother, Part 3
Jahvaris Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s half-brother, Part 4
Jahvaris Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s half-brother, Part 5
After Jahvaris the State introduced Dr. Shiping Bao, the medical examiner who had conducted the actual autopsy on Trayvon Marting. I can come up with no positive way to describe Dr. Bao’s testimony, nor the time at present to make the herculean effort to do so, but perhaps will touch on it in a post this weekend. Let it just be said that not only was his testimony not compelling of guilt, it would seem prudent for Dr. Bao to be exploring alternatives to his present employment.
State Rests, Defense Motions for Directed Verdict of Acquittal, Nelson Denies
At that, the State rested its case. The defense, in the person of Mark O’Mara, then made a rather desultory oral motion for a directed verdict of acquittal (in addition, presumably, to written motions separately submitted to the court). Unlike O’Mara’s usually energetic demeanor, this presentation was made in the tone of a lawyer speaking on a point of great importance on which he knew the judge had already decided against him.
Mantei provided the State’s counter to the motion for a directed verdict in a manner that cannot readily be described in language suitable for a family-accessible blog. To say it was histrionic, lacking in factual evidence, and rife with abject fabrications, would be to put the matter too kindly. O’Mara returned with fire in his belly to counter Mantei, showing the kind of firm but fierce determination we’ve come to expect from the defense.
After these lengthy arguments by both sides, Nelson rejected the motion for an acquitted verdict in a two sentence statement from the bench, which was disappointing but totally in keeping with her track record in this trial–nearly perfect reflexive support of the State prosecutors and disfavor of the defense.
What WAS surprising is when she immediately insisted–demanded, really–that the defense immediately call their first witness. This is notable because of the hour–5PM on a Friday afternoon in a long, long trial. For those not familiar with state courts, if you ever need to test fire a cannon without risk of human injury, any courthouse in the country at 5PM on a Friday is a pretty safe testing ground.
Gladys Zimmerman, George Zimmerman’s Mother
The first defense witness was a bit of a surprise, but the kind I’ve come to expect from O’Mara and West–George Zimmerman’s mother, Gladys Zimmerman. She was here on a similar mission to that of Sabryna Fulton–to testify that the voice screaming for help on the Jenna Lauer 911 recording was her son. This she did. On cross Bernie de la Rionda took the tack of suggesting that one couldn’t really be expected to accurately match a person’s normal voice to that of them screaming–a deeply ironic approach considering that only before he had expected just that of Sabryna Fulton, and indeed had argued for such a matching through many days and experts of a Frye hearing. Asked if she had ever before heard her son scream like on the tape, Mrs. Zimmerman could only be honest–no, not exactly like that.
O’Mara came back strong, however. Is that scream of anguish, fear, and terror without question your son’s voice?” “Yes,” she answered.
Jorge Meza, Orange County Courthouse Deputy, Uncle of George Zimmerman
The second defense witness was George Zimmerman’s uncle, Jorge Meza, an Orange County Courthouse deputy with 36 years experience in uniform (Orange County abuts Seminole County). He appeared this day not as a law enforcement officer, however, but simply as George’s uncle. He testified that he had been at home working on his computer while his wife separately watched the news on television when he heard the scream come from the TV.
Instantly, he said, he knew it was George. “All I heard on the TV was the scream, it was my nephew screaming for his life, without question. It WAS George screaming.” He explained the sound was so familiar to him because George had long played with his own sons, and he was familiar with their laughs and screams together. “I felt the screams in my heart,” he testified firmly but emotionally. It is notable that this is the first member of either family who has claimed to have identified the voice absent a suggestive environment.
Officer Meza was the last witness of the day, and so the last two witness the jury will mull over the weekend will be Zimmerman’s mother and uncle having identified George Zimmerman as the screamer on the 911 call.
Final Thought for the Week: Get Ready for a Brutal Defense
One aside before I fully wrap this up. To me, the biggest take home message of the day was not the scream identification of either the Martin or Zimmerman family, but rather the mid-trial motions and response by the State. Mantei’s web of half-truths and claims utterly unsupported by any evidence whatever showed the State was as hungry for George Zimmerman’s hide as they must have been when first handed the political prosecution of their careers. They would see George Zimmerman do life in prison, whether warranted by the evidence or not, or they would die in the effort. Given the almost complete lack of direct evidence, and the need to wildly interpret the available circumstantial evidence–and particularly following the utter debacle that was the Dr. Bao testimony–one could only imagine that their fervor would have diminished. Not so.
O’Mara’s response was that of a sheepdog to a wolf. If the State wanted Zimmerman’s hide, they’d have to fight for it, hard, and at high cost. Any thought that there might be a relatively brief defense was cast aside. I expect that not only will there be a vigorous defense, it will be a 10 gauge double-barreled coach-gun defense, to the head.
One cannot but draw the natural parallel–just as Trayvon Martin sought to punish George Zimmerman and discovered at the cost of his life that Zimmerman was not the easy target he’d perceived him to be, now it is the turn of Zimmerman’s defense team to similarly disabuse the State prosecutors. Their lives, of course, are secure. I would not, however, want my professional reputation to be at the wrong end of the defense’s considerable talent and righteous attention.
Have a Great Weekend! Keep Eyes Open for Analysis Moving Forward
OK, that’s it for today. This weekend I’ll write up a lengthier post about both side’s oral arguments in their mid-trial motions today, and what it suggests for their respective strategies moving forward. If time permits, I’ll also try to put some additional detail into the remarkable detail of Dr. Shiping Bao today–the most remarkable piece of courtroom testimony I’ve ever seen by someone who is presumably a professional at such appearances.
Other than that, I wish you all a safe and secure weekend,
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
P.S. Some exciting news: “Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition” and I got quoted extensively in both the Washington Post and Chicago Tribune of the last couple of days. Read all about it, including links to the actual news pieces, here:
Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition–Mentioned in Chicago Tribune, Washington Post
Andrew F. Branca is an MA lawyer and author of the seminal book “The Law of Self Defense,” now available in its just released 2nd Edition, which shows you how to successfully fight the 20-to-life legal battle everyone faces after defending themselves. Take advantage of the 20% “Zimmerman trial” discount & free shipping (ends when the jury returns a verdict). NRA & IDPA members can also use checkout coupon LOSD2-NRA for an additional 10% off. To do so simply visit the Law of Self Defense blog.
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Comments
“After these lengthy arguments by both sides, Nelson rejected the motion for an acquitted verdict in a two sentence statement from the bench, which was disappointing but totally in keeping with her track record in this trial–nearly perfect reflexive support of the State prosecutors and disfavor of the defense.”
‘K. Let me ask what I asked our buddy hesperus…
How many such motions have been granted by Florida courts in the last 25 years?
I bet it is a vanishingly small number. I ALSO be the standard of review is VERY high.
I agree, but you’re asking the wrong question. Ask how often a motion for acquittal has been granted in a high-profile case or second-degree murder trial. I bet that is even rarer. It just doesn’t happen, especially after the state’s paid for a jury to be sequestered for a week.
It does not mean a directed verdict is not warranted in this case. You really can’t compare this one to any other case (at least not any I am aware of).
But I am not surprised she said no. It is a high standard, although I do not believe the State has put on a prima facie case.
I certainly hope for an acquittal. Here is hoping the jury is not as biased as the media and the judge.
Shiping Bao is the most incompetent medical examiner since Irwin Golden.
The medical examiner taught me how to testify and guarantee I don’t commit perjury.
Thanks, again, Andrew for today’s summary. I only hope the jurors are as astute in assessing testimony. Zimmerman’s uncle’s testimony was, in my mind, the most powerful so far. He obviously was not coached or “prepared” before he heard the 911 call! Have a good weekend … “see you” next week!
I agree on the uncle. His account of hearing the scream from a different room and instantly knowing the source is much more convincing than any of the other three scream identification witnesses.
I am very grateful for Dr. Bao’s testimony.
I never before appreciated how important is the right to confront witnesses.
I am hopeful the jury will give his testimony the credence it merits.
.
This whole case, from the circumstances of the investigation and charging, to the parade of odd, unhelpful, and even downright bizarre witnesses, has gone so far into the surreal that is like watching Law and Order: Twin Peaks Squad.
If you wrote a book with this stuff as the plot, you couldn’t get it published for the absurdity.
It sort of reminds me of the Carnie trial in Carnivale. Zimmerman has to stand tall in front of the wagon!
Andrew: in your very first sentence, “it’s” should be “its” (counter-intuitively, possessive is without the apostrophe, with the apostrophe is the contraction for “it is”).
Thanks for all the coverage – it’s so vital, with the MSM so biased and skewed.
typo
Can’t we just stipulate that *typos *happen? Everyone seems reasonably coherent here….
Let us not nitpick.
These pedantic corrections to the mechanics of the narrative in the post reflect poorly on the judgment of their author. Time to grow up.
We all recognize that Andrew’s comments are posted quickly. The grammar/spelling/typo posts are intended to help him when he pulls these posts together for his next book. We are all so grateful for what Andrew is doing, it’s surely not meant to be critical but rather to be helpful
Yes, I agree. Andrew needs to use these posts for a book, and any editing will help make the publication of the book very easy. 🙂
Perhaps you could inspire me with your own extensive coverage of the trial.
Nothing?
And you’re criticizing my judgement? 🙂 Silly rabbit, find thee a mirror.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
It appears that Mogget was referring to the authors of the posts reflecting typos…not to you…
Ah, in that case, my bad, and apology extended.
This commenting system makes it difficult to decipher the chain of communication sometimes.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Grownups know how to spell and use the English language without making excuses.
….and some of them do it well enough to get a book published.
Here’s a new paradigm for you to experiment with: Find something important to comment about. And, yes, I ended that sentence with a preposition just to annoy you.
End a sentence with a preposition ?
That is something up with which I shall not put.
. . . . . . . . attributed to Winston Churchill
I’m well aware of the difference between “its” and “it’s”, it’s merely the rush to get stuff out and the lack of time to run to CVS and buy some cheapo reading glasses that I finally acknowledge I need.
I do, however, much appreciate the heads up on all these. The first paragraph error has been fixed.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Yes, and at least some appreciate that you’re working to turn out a quality product; we hate to see a quality product marred by obvious, albeit unimportant, mistakes.
Without a doubt, you are the rudest, most anally retentive poster on this site.
These jurors are all local residents. The prosecutor apparently plans to tell them, in final arguments, that if they ever dare to defend themselves, or if their relatives do, they will be judged of “depraved mind” merely because they did so. Wow.
So what shows more of a “depraved mind” shooting your attacker or letting him beat your brains out on a sidewalk when you have the means to stop them? It’s time to kick Florida out of the Union or make um part of Georgia.
“Georgia’s in Florida dumba$$” —President President Camacho’s cabinet..Idiocracy.
Florida is and will be part of the Union.
Don’t you think it is easier to get rid of bdlr, judge nelson, Benjamin crump and their like?
——– – ———– – ————
PS. I know, I know.
I was supposed to capitalize proper names. I just did not want to. I don’t feel they deserve so much respect as to capitalize their names.
Basically, if someone is waterboarding you with your own blood (nose bleeding into sinuses and throat, as testimony established), and you can’t be sure your next smack into the concrete will render you unconscious or worse, you are required to just take it.
Haven’t you been listening? Entities such as U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, the media, the entertainment industry and a wide cadre of universities have taught that whitey is never a victim, and, when assaulted, is not allowed to fight back. The audacity of a white person who fights back against scions of black culture such as Trademark Martin is intolerable and we all must be taught a lesson: Just take the beatdown and STFU.
you didn’t appreciate the dead men can’t stand quip?
seemed to me it was a planned snarky type of response.
A directed verdict would be appropriate when the evidence against guilt is overwhelming, which in this case, it is. It would be even more appropriate when the it is a trial that should never have begun, and the case is merely political – as this one is.
It is very alarming when the government goes all out to “get” someone, knowing full well that they are innocent. It is injustice, it is tyranny.
You are absolutely correct. Apparently in Florida you can ditch the Magna Carta by avoiding a Grand Jury when Murder one is not charged. The penalty for 2nd degree murder can be a long time in jail. A Grand Jury can protect both citizens and a prosecutor.
I agree that this is a political trial. Its purpose is to appease the demonstrators. Is wrongful prosecution a crime in Florida?
If it isn’t a crime, it should be.
And it should also constitute a tort.
It’s a malicious, political prosecution that amounts to a decree of attainder.
If we hanged everyone involved from Scott, Bondi, Corey, and Nelson through BDLR & Mantei and both those jerk MEs (of course only after much fairer trials than they have accorded Zimmerman) and left their bodies swinging to rot as a warning to others, perhaps the scales of justice would again be in balance (assuming Zimmerman and his family were adequately compensated for their injuries at the hands of the State).
Maybe it is time we raise our voices loud and clear so that Rick Scott can hear it.
This political prosecution is unacceptable, and if he, Mr. Scott wants our vote for reelection, he better start finding a way to stop this circus.
During the medical examiner testimony, I remembered back at the OJ trial. F Lee, Robert and Johnnie would have ripped this medical examiner apart. If I were Mark O’Mara, I would be searching for Michael Baden’s phone number to be a defense witness.
The O’Mara news briefing was very good. A class act, a fantastic attorney.
This judge is nuts. It would be unfortunate if GZ is found guilty, and I believe she had a moral obligation to end the trial today. I understand the political reasons why she didn’t.
I have heard Michael Baden speak about this case. He does not believe George Zimmerman acted in self-defense.
Mark O’Mara stated in a news conference that at this state of the trial the prosecution has the advantage. He did not seem to be surprised the judge did not acquit.
I’ve never been nearly as impressed with Baden as Baden is with Baden.
He’s a whore with medical skills. I think they’re called “massage therapists.”
She’s mailing it all in. Could give a rip. Has no clue what a ‘moral obligation’ might look like, with one staring her right in the face.
I remember a time when the accused was innocent until adjudged guilty but these prosecutors take the position that it is up to GZ to prove his innocence. And, worse, that that’s OK.
The prosecution’s case: A person is dead from a gunshot wound. The person who pulled the trigger admits he did so. Ipso facto, depraved mind and guilty, ineligible for claim of self-defense.
I agree with your sentiments, but if I needed a lawyer from that trial, I want Barry Scheck.
Wasn’t able to watch the stream, but have read on a couple of blogs that Dr. Bao’s testimony was, shall we say, laughable. Looking forward to your analysis of this witness.
Bao suffers from a new disease no one else has, which is a completely memory less person. Cannot recall anything, even contents of a 40 minute meeting a day prior and this limits his ability to understand the legal system in which he works.
Doesn’t have a clue how his technicians perform their duties because he is not trained for said duties.
my favorite lines include ‘No, you can’t see my notes’ and response to defense ‘you are trying to trick me?’ LOL
Other interesting bits, ‘we can’t take pictures of the whole body because camera doesn’t go high enough’ ME: invest a step ladder
‘We can’t take picture of the palm because it closes’ ME: get a glass plate and press the hand face down while someone takes the picture from below.
Dr Rao came a close second with ‘I didn’t look at all the pictures, because the printer was very slow’ ME: invest in a laser printer.
Is this is how folk in the legal system handle prosecutions I hope I never have to face a court under any circumstances, ever!
Bao is of course a lousy witness, but to be fair, TM was just another shooting victim at the time and they just did what was required to determine cause of death which was obvious.
Just so.
No one thought it was murder at all.
Even on Trayvon’s Facebook page, the several dozen messages from his friends were all, “so sorry you’re gone” and “will miss you man” stuff, not a single one, not one said anything about him being a victim. Not a single mention about injustice. The people who knew him figured he had started a fight with a man with a gun and paid the price.
And so did everyone else, including Martin’s family, until Crump and his race hustle caravan came to town.
“Just another shooting victim”? More like “just another dead felon.”
He took an online course on memory techniques from the Hillary Clinton School of Memory Management.
What difference, at this point, does it make?
She may find out in 2016:)
Hey! You forgot the best of all:
“I don’t remember anything.”
I have to say, I’ve never seen a trial before, maybe a few minutes of OJ’s, but if I were a juror I’d already notice a bias even in layman’s terms. Today was painful but fun to watch Mr. Bao not remember anything and understand it’s not his job to see that his technicians do the right thing. He could not have done a better job at destroying his credibility, and NO you can keep your notes to yourself LOL.
Clearly, this should have never gone to trial and the PD had it right in the first place. Hopefully, Cory, and her team, along with Mr. Bao will find alternative employment after the Trial.
I loved Zimmerman’s uncle’s testimony, I really hope the Defense continues to drive this to the point of ridicule for the prosecution and that lady dressed in a robe, so no one ever has the bright idea to put a victim through this circus for political reasons, and provides very useful case law in case some does 😉
Oh, I’d really like the Toxicology to come into evidence, I just can’t understand why that is not being allowed.
Thanks Andrew!
In a murder trial, I would think that the character of the socalled ” victim”, especially a gangbanger wannabe like Trayvon Martin would be relevant
It’s obvious that the real victim here was Zimmerman.
This judge is a witch
The reason that the prosecutor did not bring in anyone to testify about what a good guy Martin was is because the defense could bring in their character witnesses.
Why did Kinky Friedman just pop in my head?
We have a case involving an (alledged) wannabe-gangbanger and an (alleged) wannabe-cop. And the state argues the wannabe-cop is the bad guy.
Should really boost recruiting for the police academy. As an aside.
I thought that Dr. Bao’s testimony would be straight forward, giving the State an edge. Dr. Bao seem to be intentionally avoiding answering questions. He could remember Texas and Alabama cases, but he could not remember what he discussed with the prosecutors the day before. I wonder what the jury thought of his testimony.
Heck, imagine what must have been going through the prosecutors’ minds! Their guts must have been in knots!
Can the prosecution object to their own witnesses under CX? just kidding
I heard that the judge asked the jury if they wanted to start or quit, and the jury immediately and unanimously said they wanted to listen to the defense’s case.
Hey folks,
Check it out, I got a mention in the Washington Post today.
http://is.gd/kQCxht
Now if only they’d taken advantage of this last opportunity at the 30% pre-order discount, free shipping, expiring at midnight tonight, for The Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition. 🙂
http://is.gd/oRSUSc
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Wow. Could a NYT bestseller be in your future?
“Legal self-defense expert Andrew Branca has the definitive debunking of the affidavit and the trial disasters for the prosecution that should be read in full, but an excerpt is sufficient to show the “Grand Canyon” between what has been shown and what must be shown for a conviction:”
Rubin’s not too shabby.
Looking forward to it! pre-ordered it today 😉
Andrew (must…resist…calling…you…Mr. Branca…), congrats on the well-deserved publicity, and thank you for what must be an absolute TON of w*rk on your part to not only keep up on the minutiae of the trial, but then scramble to put each day’s events into words for all us folks waiting for our 8 p.m. fix.
Props to the Prof, as well, for this site, which has become a daily go-to for my wife and I for all things conservative.
Your book is on order; we’re looking forward to furthering our education.
Thanks again.
Best,
IAP
Andrew if your book was generic enough, since I live in a different country, I would think about making the purchase 🙂 However, we have different laws and murders happen with other implements.
Sorry, but my book is strictly US. I have no idea whatever how self-defense is handled in other countries. Covering the details of 50 states is quite enough. 🙂
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Congrats; well deserved. 🙂
I’m not sure, but I think this weekend O’Mara gets to depose Crump, because he got an upper court motion to do so?
I still hope Monday starts with Dr. Vincent DiMaoi. Boa’s unforgetable performance of “it’s not my job.” “I don’t remember.” And, “I’m an expert because I saw a rel self defense case 3 weeks ago.” (Here, O’Mara slips in a question to Bao … “Of course one of the gunshot textbooks you used was written by Dr. Vincent DiMaoi.” Got a “hes” answer.)
Oh, and Dr. Bao “doesn’t do fingernails.”
If O’Mara’s first two witnesses didn’t steal the show, we’d be talking about Boa. And, his “qualifications.” I think he’s “qualified” because if the patient were living, the patient would die. In which case he’d blame the patient.
Given that Nelson HATES both O’Mara and West, can she just keeping bouncing out “sustained” … if BDLR interupts every sentence with “I Object.” And, then we can have a drinking contest on all the “Sustained.”
Can Nelson say any inference different to the one Bao states … that you can live up to ten minutes after a fatal shot … would prevent Vincent DiMaoi to really challenge Boa’s supposition of 1 to 10 minutes?
I still think Bao cut Trayvon’s legs off at the ankles, so he could put his feet into a pot of soup. And, come up with Trayvon measuring in at 5’11’ … Plus, when he looked at Trayvon’s palms “his fingers were curled.” HELLO. Don’t they teach rigor mortis to medical students?
I loved your comment that Dr. Bao should try to find some other type of employment. I hope the same happens to Judge Nelson. (Even though Ito won his judicial election after OJ). And, especially, ahead to the governor’s race, where I hope Rick Scott meets his match.
The (muscles in the) fingers can/may/will contract because of rigor or rigor mortis, so what other parts of the body curl up? Maybe a bunch of other muscles, all throughout the body? Trayvon was 6’1” before these effects had an influence on his “length,” correct? Such a sad persecution… Really smelly.
I’m no doctor, but what I thought was also inaccurate was the determination of BMI, based on the bloodless body weight, not factoring in the weight of lost blood.. if that could even be established.
You saw his “pretty much” non-blood soaked clothes; his blood loss was internal. So the BMI was likely close to accurate. His blood loss was not left on the ground at at the scene, it was in his lungs.
Did anyone catch the defense’s clever use of BMI to capitalize on the claim that TM was 5’11”? They used that height and the measured weight to calculate a higher BMI than TM’s real standing height. They shaved 2 or 3 BMI’s off with that tactic, making TM 22 instead of 19 or 20. They worked it to their advantage to emphasize that TM was not some skinny kid. I saw that and cheered out loud. I verified by pulling out a BMI table (male) and looking up the data myself. Kudos defense.
Once again a good case of flaming liberals moving to conservative states and infusing their liberal agendas because they can no longer tolerate/live in the states that they just ruined.
To which I respond the same way I view immigrants who want sharia law in the US: don’t move here and re-create the hellhole you crawled out of.
Grammar Nazis: sorry for the dangling preposition.
hmmm……sounds like what happened to Detoilet and some inner cities across the country.
I bet myself Nelson would not waste a single second in denying the JOA motion. I’d have wagered so with anyone but there was no one within 3000 miles who’d have taken that bet.
What a waste of prosecutors’ salaries and billed defense hours. But then, that applies to the entirety of this Kabuki production.
This makes no sense: “Ms. Fulton’s credibility was also substantively damaged when she claimed that she had not known before hearing the tape that it was believed to contain the sound of her son’s last, desperate screams.”
The tape supposedly contained Zimmerman’s voice since he was the one who was yelling for help, or at least, that is what he told police. It must have been quite a shock to her to hear her son’s voice instead of Zimmerman’s voice.
“since he was the one who was yelling for help, or at least, that is what he told police.”
Exactly! How many times have we heard George testify to “screaming for help”–even before he knew there was a tape. The only eye witness said he believed it to be George who was screaming. Defense should have let it go. Anyone with common sense would never believe it was Trayvon.
PS-Loved the tweets today when Dr. Bao was testifying. Just amazing that man has a job.
I mean prosecution should have let it go.
🙂 That’s better.
Hypothetically if TM was screaming, GZ would have heard him screaming so it would make sense for him to make the claim that he was screaming himself even not knowing that a tape existed. But that would be some serious on-the-spot thinking and an insane attention to detail. I mean when you stack up all the ways that ‘GZ’ would have supposedly covered his tracks he would have had to do some serious planning and would have a genius level mental capacity.
The tape supposedly contained Zimmerman’s voice since he was the one who was yelling for help, or at least, that is what he told police. It must have been quite a shock to her to hear her son’s voice instead of Zimmerman’s voice.
That’s not likely. Serino played the tape for Tracy Martin well before Sybrina Fulton heard it with the explicit intent of getting his view on who was screaming. Therefore, the issue of who was screaming on the 911 tape was brought up early to the Martin family, and everyone, including Fulton, had to be aware of it’s significance.
Here is another thought about the scream. Martin would scream like that with a gun nearby. But, Zimmerman would be silent while his head was getting injured.
We’re to take that as sarcasm, right? You just forgot the smiley, right?
Martin would scream like that with a gun nearby.
Have you ever heard of a guy who screams when someone pulls out a gun? Okay, maybe if he also wears high heels and garters. But let’s be serious here.
Have you ever fought hand to hand over a gun? I have, and any screaming in the face of potential or likely imminent death would hardly be unusual.
Zimmerman on his back getting pounded by Martin. Martin notices Zimmerman’s 9mm in holster, goes for it. They wrestle over gun, each knowing whomever loses dies.
Martin loses control of gun to Zimmerman and screams.
Any man can be made to scream like a girl if the circumstances are right. I think imminent death qualifies. And he did, too. Die.
Martin’s DNA is on Zimmerman’s right cuff. That would be the cuff on the hand that held the gun.
Would TM scream as long as the earwitnesses and eyewitness and 911 call recorded? No. The eyewitness saw the physical fight going on during the screaming…it was the ground and pound, not the waistline level struggle.
I’d say, “Nice try,” but it’s not even that. Over half a minute of screams?
Martin loses control of gun to Zimmerman and screams.
Yes, I’m reminded of Austin Powers and the Steam Roller incident in the Spy Who Shagged Me. I can’t see that this is a serious point.
If you are wrestling with someone who has a gun, you don’t waste breath on screams. But if you’ve lost the struggle and someone has a gun on you, you then talk them down and let them know you mean no harm. You put your hands up, back away, demonstrate that you’re not a threat. This is second nature to anyone who’s seen a Hollywood film.
Your post doesn’t reach your usual level of intelligence.
That is the point. There is only one scream in question. No one, not even the mothers, can positively identify who made the scream. The jury can consider which circumstance would produce such a scream.
There are several screams and cries for help audible on the tape.
The trouble is that this biological mother would not have had a clue about the voice because she had not fully raised him.
I loved that MOM asked Gladys if she had fully raised George. This is an issue.
$$$$ybrina put on a good act in that room when she fled weeping those crocodile tears.
$$$ybrina is after one thing and that is her greed for money.
How many grieving parents bother to trademark their dead child’s image in the hope of making money from his death?
Nobody thought this was anything but legitimate self-defense until Crump gave everyone a whiff of a payday.
How many grieving mothers go on a media and lawyer tour of the eastern seaboard with a trashcan begging for money?
Also, does anyone actually believe that Sybrina was led into that room, with the mayor and lawyers present and shown the tape cold, with no preparation for what she was about to have to endure? I can’t imagine scenario under which this is the truth.
I do feel the need to say this. I listened to Sybrina when she answered the question of who was screaming. She said Trayvon’s full name. My gut reaction was “how odd”. I think the jury of women would feel the same way. It wasn’t “my child”. “my son” with his name after. Or anything like that. But the full name. Like your mom says when you are in trouble. It struck me as terribly impersonal. Disconnected even. Just weird.
Coached.
After the disaster of Jenteal, I’m sure that Crump and other attorneys have scripted the Martin family. I’m just surprised that she didn’t appear at all sad on the stand, instead of angry and wary.
From what I’ve read, she’s hardly even seen him since he was 2 years old. His father and stepmother raised him and his father said it wasn’t his son’s voice! Also, she was instructed to be very careful, I’m sure, not to make any comments that would open the door for the defense to bring in Trayvon’s background (although they could bring in Zimmerman’s kindergarten report card)! -:) I didn’t think she came off as very credible, especially not when she was immediately followed by George’s mother and uncle. We’ll have to see how the jurors see it.
Heh. “was Trayvon a good little boy?” “I wouldn’t know, you’ll have to ask the woman that raised him”.
Did you hear MOM’s question to Gladys Zimmerman about raising George 🙂 I think this issue will blow up in Sybrina’s face.
Is anyone betting that Alicia Stanley will appear as an hostile witness for the defense?
Probably one Mom cancelled out the other. Really, Jonathan Good is the only one who was even close to being on the scene to hear the scream and ID it.
I understand MOM’s point in probing further with Sybrina, but I’m not sure he even had to go there….it makes me a little nervous to think that some potential Sydyka-esque overly emotional Mom on the jury might take offense.
But I think it worked on one level. Her resistance to even the questions of “going there” with the hypothetical of what if that *is* GZ screaming DEMONSTRATED that the possibility could not even enter her mind. That psychological need not to engage the possibility that her son was the aggressor and the thug made it impossible to perceive that the screams were anyone but TM. I’m glad MOM did the CX–West would seem too mean, he’s better for the experts (and I think he did all right with RJ who needed a firmer handling on cross).
I’m glad you brought this up. After Jeantel’s defiance trainwreck, I figured Sybrina would play a more heartbroken, grieving mother.
Regardless of which side of the case one is on, this is still a tragic case: a young boy is dead and a circus trial has gone forward to quell ignorant protestors.
For Sybrina to act angry? To seem on the verge of lashing out? To utterly refuse to answer whether or not it could be Zimmerman’s voice? This is not a good show. Anyone with a basic understand of psychology knows that there are several biases that effect humans – expect the defense to drive this home.
Young boy? LOL! He was a felon and a thug. He was destined for prison with his escalating criminal behaviors.
Interesting observation, I’d venture to say it slipped out that way, due to the intensive preparation.. Zimmerman’s mother was way more credible.
…Where GZ’s family said, “That’s my (son) George.” Since they already know his first and middle names.
Your comment is really interesting. His mom saying the whole name is like, when we were in 2nd grade, including our last name on the valentine for Mom. Cute for a 7 year old; strange for an adult. AND, TM didn’t live with her long at all. She kicked him out for some reason – probably not for outstanding citizenship or Mr. Congeniality – and he went to live with his dad.
I noticed that too. Sybrina’s response sounded rehearsed. Zimmerman’s sounded more personal.
Disturbing facebook page is being investigated by Sanford police: its owner invites the public to ‘ Like ‘ if you are ready to riot for Trayvon ‘
It’s actually titled ‘ Riot For Trayvon’.
God help us.
Would you be surprised if the FB post was from NBC/MSNBC news or for that matter any of the other MSM outlets? They can’t afford GZ being found not guilty – they already convicted him and are now working on his death sentence.
As a Mom, I can say that practically the only time I used my childrens’ entire ( first, middle, and last ) names was to signify that I was really pretty steamed and they had better listen up!
I learned today that anyone who has ever pulled a trigger to shoot someone has a depraved mind and ill-will. So is every law enforcement official in the history of our country guilty of 2nd degree murder when killing someone in the line of duty?
So pounding someone’s head on concrete isn’t ill-will?
Sorry, if someone is “grounding and pounding” me and bashing my head on a sidewalk, I will defend myself with ill-will if necessary.
re-read what was said.
think about it.
I was referring to the state’s ill-will claim, not your comment. I just replied here because you touched on it. 🙂
There was a lot said during Mantei’s rebuttal to the motion for a directed acquittal that seems to open up TM’s character (his drug use and fighting). Does it not ‘count’ though because it wasn’t said in front of the Jury?
Ugh. The comments after Rubin’s WaPo blog/column are really ugly. Still an amazing number of people with their own narrative, facts and evidence be damned.
How funny, I didn’t even look at the comments. Don’t read the papers much anymore. Even let my WSJ subscription expire some years ago.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Several points: 1. I don’t think O’Mara should have started off his cross with Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s Mother, by saying “I apologize….” It should have been an expression of sorrow, but not apologetic. 2. O’Mara should have argued that the TV tape of Martin’s brother’s statement that he was not sure it was his brother should be admitted to generally challenge his testimony, not just to correct the brother’s memory of the TV interview. 3. If Trayvon had marijuana in his blood, that certainly should be admissible, especially since the alleged medical examiner now says that level of THC could have mental effects; how could a pretrial order prevail in light of the examiner’s new opinion?
Re #3 reversible error by judge, resulting in new trial on appeal, if Zimmerman found guilty.
Maybe, in his spare time, Andrew can put a list together of all of the reversible errors this judge has made.
There’s a lot of talk in these comments about reversible errors. I don’t see any appeals court touching this with a ten-foot pole if there’s a guilty verdict.
Did he actually say, “I apologize,” or did he say something like, “I’m sorry for your loss?”
He quite deliberately said, “I apologize…” rather than the mealy-mouthed “I am sorry…” which can be interpreted in various ways and therefore does not necessarily express remorse. Remorse and responsibility on the part of Zimmerman are entirely appropriate.
As the attorney for the man who pulled the trigger, “I apologize…” was entirely appropriate. Under the best of circumstances for Mr. Zimmerman, what happened was a terrible accident during a desperate struggle. Because murder was not the intention, one would feel remorse. It was not an acknowledgement of murder in any degree or manslaughter.
As Mr. O’Mara said, he’s human and he’s not going to change who he is because others accuse him of pandering.
O’Mara to State: I’m your Huckleberry.
State: I was just joshin’ about.
O’Mara: I wasn’t. Say ‘When.’
Excellent movie and one incredible scene. Whew!
Nice reference, from the says when Val Kilmer had a BMI in double digits.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
I am still waiting for some one to make the connection that the only credible eye witness says that, without question, TM was on top beating the daylights out of GZ with the point that if TM is on top beating on GZ, then why would TM be screaming for help? The answer to this question would immediately impeach Trayvon’s mother and her certainty that Trayvon was calling of help.
That is the connection that will be made by the defense in their closing argument.
Exactly. The “scream” of Martin would have been that of someone beating someone, not someone in pain. I’m sure cussing, cracker-calling, etc., would have been part of it.
No way. GZ definitely ran up, grabbed TM in a big bear hug and then dropped down onto his back and started beating his own head against the concrete. TM wasn’t punching him, he was just screaming because the “crazy cracker” was holding him down while he was beating himself silly. Then the “crazy cracker” just up and shot him! (Note this is the preferred method for “crazy crackers” to kill “effin punks”, found on page 52 of the KKK handbook). That would make WAY more sense than TM sucker-punching him to the ground, jumping on top, then pounding his head against the concrete while GZ screamed. /sarc
Coincidentally if you discount the testimony of GZ’s family and keep TM’s family, the ME’s and Dee Dee’s testimony, that’s pretty much the only story that fits the rest of the evidence.
It’s as obvious a conclusion as one concluding he or she should get a drink of water if thirsty. We all get it.
The defense will lay this out for the jury at the appropriate time.
I’ll be very interested to read anything else you care to write on this trial, Andrew, but particularly interested in more detailed reflection on Dr. Bao.
Me too – what a train wreck.
I want to ask Mr. Branca and the rest of the lawyers here about that, in my opinion stupid, statement by the prosecutor going by the last name Mantei.
He claimed that the fact that the bullet went through TM’s heart is in itself a proof of a depraved mind.
Doesn’t that statement directly go to restrict the very heart of self defense laws?
Are we the citizens of Florida now denied the right to defend ourselves from imminent death or serious bodily injure if we don’t aim at a specific body part?
Are we putting ourselves at risk of being prosecuted if that were to happen?
This is really puzzling to me.
It is indeed an outrageous argument.
It seems like a pretty weak argument. Unless the point is that the level of force was SO unnecessarily brutal that in itself indicates depraved state of mind.
That really doesn’t square with the other facts though.
I found it outrageous in the assumption that GZ had perfect control over the aim, rather than engaged in a close contact hand to hand body to body violent struggle.
The (muscles in the) fingers can/may/will contract because of rigor or rigor mortis, so what other parts of the body curl up? Maybe a bunch of other muscles, all throughout the body? Trayvon was 6’1” before these effects had an influence on his “length,” correct? Such a sad persecution… Really smelly.
But rigor mortis had not set in when trademark was photographed at the scene. If you check that picture, you can see his hand is still balled into a fist.
The photo of TM at the scene also show TM’s legs drawn up. Did rigor mortis freeze him in that position?
I found this pretty interesting, since I listened to the recording and didn’t think any reasonable person could recognize anything about what was on it – the voices in the background were of such poor quality I would not be prepared to say anything about them at all.
But boy was the Uncle’s testimony compelling. More than anything there seems to be a huge difference in the style of parenting between the Martin and Zimmerman family. Sure seems like Zimmerman’s uncle knows him a lot better than Martin’s mom knows her son.
D
D
This trial is a cultural class in microcosm:
chaos vs. order
law abiding workers vs. opportunistic societal rent-seekers
Traydad is more likely to know the voice. When he first heard the tape he said it was not his son. Traymom was coached to do her thing when she heard the tape. It was all for show and $$$
If I’m a juror, I’m wondering why trademark’s dad didn’t also identify the voice.
State was eager not to put Traydaddy on the stand. Too great a risk if any doors opened. Gang tat etc.
Maybe the defense will call him. Can they?
I am repeating the question I asked in the last thread:
What exactly is the prosecution’s theory of the case vis-a-vis the screams?
Is it the state’s position that Zimmerman was on top of Martin, beating him up, and eventually shot him? If so, how does the state explain the injuries on Zimmerman’s head and the lack of injuries on Martin’s head?
If the state does not maintain that Zimmerman was beating on Martin, then, according to the state, why was Martin screaming for help?
1. GZ stalked and jumped TM (“get off!”)
2. TM was defending himself reasonably.
3. TM was the screamer–GZ’s mom and uncle are liars or deluded.
4. Mr. Good only saw an unrepresentative “time slice” of the wrestling match–a brief moment in time when TM had the upper hand, but only apparently.
5. GZ had complete control over the situation for the entire time due to his training in how to fake a self-defense to a murder charge. He purposefully maneuvered TM into a brawl, then with depraved indifference, shot him through the heart. GZ then self-inflicted his various wounds. The scrapes on TM’s hand weren’t punch marks, they were incidental when he slumped over dead.
6. GZ was motivated by his frustrated LEO aspirations and also hated “those a-holes” (i.e. black kids in the neighborhood with tea and skittles). He had a huge grudge and was just waiting for a chance to take it out on a convenient victim. TM was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time and was snared by the devious evil White Hispanic killer.
That’s the State’s theory of the case as far as I can tell.
you see very little out your window and sometimes you have to get involved. i watch out my window and watch as she passes by. shes such a lovely girl. gz was simply trying to keep tabs on tm and got himself into a tight spot and got himself out the only way he could. he made mistakes, sure. so did tm. tm could have lost gz and in fact, did. did he not let it go? the timeline will tell. and so will the debri field-two things yet to be argued
RJ’s testimony is fascinating in that when she calls him back after they were disconnected when TM was running/walking fast/skipping…TM has arrived at back of dad’s girlfriend’s house. RJ believes TM stayed there and GZ confronted TM there. But RJ says she hears RJ breathing hard from having run, and wind noise, and says TM is speaking in a low quiet voice. She thinks it’s because he’s tired. This goes on for a couple minutes before the confrontation starts. It is clear to me that TM is walking back up to the T along the side in the darkness, and speaking quietly because he’s sneaking up on GZ and doesn’t want to be heard or discovered and lose the element of surprise. So if you split the facts she reports and her interpretation of the facts, it establishes that TM had plenty of time to walk back up to the T and is trying not to be heard. It’s damning.
Surdyka’s testimony is problematic (understatement) but her testimony confirms this version. She hears one loud voice but it’s not an argument or confrontation. It’s one person talking to themselves or on the phone (CX got her to admit this possibility) and it’s a low strong voice. Jayne assumes this is the older GZ because she assumes the man has a lower voice than the “child” TM. Jayne said the time between that and the second confrontation conversation she heard was 5 or 10 minutes (initial statement) then 5 minutes (later statement) then 2 minutes (on the stand) and CX nailed her on changing times. Plenty of time for TM to make it home and come back. She doesn’t report hearing another voice until the confrontation and we know from the NEN recording that GZ ccntinued to speak softly–even afraid to give out address because he doesn’t know where this guy is–afraid of being overheard and this guy showing up at his house. Then Jayne says she hears the low, loud voice, a softer, higher pitch voice respond, and the low loud voice again. The first person to speak was the aggressor with the low pitched loud voice, the same loud voice she heard 10 or 5 or 2 minutes before. This corroborates GZ’s version of the conversation with TM before TM suckerpunched him. Jayne is convinced the low voice is GZ’s and the high pitched one is TM’s but she has never heard their voices before and doesn’t know either man. She saw the media pix of TM as a child and just knew the higher pitched voice was TM’s. The jury can know how soft, meek, and high pitched GZ’s voice is because they saw the videos (walk through and Hannity excerpt) and the recorded calls. The jury knows Jayne is mistaken in who she is attributing these voices to and has it backwards. RJ knew it was important to mention that TM sometimes spoke in a high pitched baby voice and that strains belief–what gangsta thug wannabe talks baby talk in a high pitched voice?! SRSLY?! And RJ established on the stand that she lies when she has a good reason to, even when under oath with law enforcement friendly to her agenda. Then TM’s brother takes the stand and has a deep rich resonant voice, the only probable sample of what TM’s voice sounds like. I wonder if any other recordings of TM’s voice exist?! This voice thing is crystal clear to me and hopefully to the jurors, if you piece together unguarded bits of testimony and evidence from everything presented.
How would TM even know GZ was back at the T if he had already left there? How was he supposed to know that GZ got out of his truck and was following him?
You’re not alone. Everybody on the planet is scratching their heads asking what the state’s case is.
MOM during directed verdict motion: “Actually, I’m not sure what the state’s case is.”
Sarcasm alert.
IMO, the state’s explanation of TM’s screams can be summed up in the following video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyB-gXf6YSg
Andrew – as always – great insight. Attended a 4th party yesterday and the conversation turned to the trial. Rush Limbaugh is right – uniformed voters! Most of the people in attendance are educated and/or reasonable people for the most part. I pointed out the testimony I had read/heard all week. They would have none of it. They only believe what they heard/read/saw in the news. I implored them to go to sites and listen to the testimony. None of that – they will just make their judgements based on the MSM. It completely distresses me that an average citizen, who one day might be in the same position as GZ, would make a judgement without knowing/seeing/hearing the sworn testimony of witnesses and instead opting for the bias of the media who have already convicted GZ.
The ME was a disaster today. I posted to your twitter account during his testimony. The whole debacle was like watching the bar scene in Star Wars! And the fact that the judge just let this man give his opinion instead of testifying as to the results of the autopsy…. well like I said Nelson is itching to send GZ to death row if she could (no doubt with the goading of Angela Corey).
On that note – GZ and his family is in my thoughts and prayers as the defense proceeds. He has excellent attorneys but the judge has already made up her mind and that worries me. I pray that this jury sees the truths coming out and deliberates justly and finds GZ innocent.
what you are saying is exactly what happened here in Australia during the Chamberlain case. Most people were convinced that one of the sons killed their baby sister and that there was a cover up. I am serious I heard that kind of talk at the time. Like in this case these people never looked at the obvious evidence that showed that Lindy Chamberlain was not guilty of murder. Yet the jury convicted her anyway. It was a political trial just like George Zimmerman’s tria. I just hope that George has a better outcome.
As this all female jury weighs the evidences presented to them, day after day, I wonder if they are at all concerned about how the (predominately minority) public might react were they to come back with a verdict of not guilty.
Ya think?
THey wouldn’t be human, given all the publicity, if they weren’t worried. What I hope for from them is courage.
I thought O’Mara was exceptionally persuasive and effective in his rebuttal of Mantei. Not that Nelson was listening, mind you.
Mantei just made sh*t up. And what sh*t he didn’t make up he stepped in. My non-lawyer opinion, anyway.
IKR–Mantei in citing cases said we don’t have to believe the defendent’s story to still find self defense. I’m like, duuuude.
Andrew- Do you think the defense will ask Serino and Mike Lee about how they believe the case relates to them getting demoted/fired?
Do you think MOM will call Angela Corey to the stand and ask her why the information supporting GZ’s case was left out of the arrest affidavit? And why she prayed with the Martins and said she would get justice for Trayvon, but didn’t pray with Zimmermans, or say she would get JUSTICE period? Will they ask her the timing between her reelection and her public statement about her murder charges against GZ?
I suspect the matters of their demotions has been closed off by Nelsons in limine ruling. In truth, it’s not directly relevant to the night in question, although it certainly doesn’t pass the smell test from a political perspective. But criminal courtrooms are not good forums for the hashing of such political disputes. That’s what elections are for.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Sybrina Fulton sounds like a smart, hard working lady. So it makes you wonder how trademark ended up with the likes fo rachel jeantel.
Did anyone else notice how each mother identified the screams? When asked who’s voice it was, fulton said only “Trayvon Benjamin Martin.” to me that sounds impersonal and rehearsed coming from a mother identifying a child’s voice.
But Zimmerman’s mother said ” it was my son, George.” that sounds more spontaneous and personal to me.
John Wayne Gacy
James Earl Ray
Mark David Chapman
Trayvon Benjamin Martin
George
(One of these things is not like the other.)
Sabrina didn’t raise Trayvon. He was raised by Tracy’s next girlfriend Alicia Stanley from the time he was a toddler. He lived with Alicia most of his life until his father moved on to Brandy. Sabrina only recently developed her maternal instinct.
Not only great insight from Andrew but also the comments and input from the followers of LI. Very informative. And thanks Prof Jacobson for letting Andrew keep us up to date.
And a final thought before I retire for the night. Another comment on the MSM – think about what they have done to this case against GZ and look at what they have done to Paula Deen (and she was an Obama supporter). The press in this country is no longer the fourth estate. They are the judge, jury and hang man – they pick the target and kill it with no blow back from those of us who may be next. We just celebrated the 237th birthday of our country and at this rate we won’t make it to 238. The press is now in the back pocket of those who want to destroy our great nation.
Thank you so much. I did not know that Paula was an Obama supporter until just now. While I had never had an appreciation for her very basic Southern cooking recipes (because my Mom already taught them to me), I feel so much better watching the MSM destroy her after your update! BTW, I am a conservative, born in Alabama and raised in Texas! And she was/is so freakin’ stupid for not just passing on those questions; something like: “I don’t recall,” or “I don’t remember,” or … Let her go!
George voted for Obama too
Ive been trying to watch and read as much of this as possible but still have missed much of it. Is there any dispute that Zimmerman shot TM in the chest (not the back) while TM was on top of him? Ive been following a debate that says the gunshot forensics show a trajectory that proves TM was on top, GZ on bottom, at close range. Is that the case or is it still in dispute? Any help you can give would be appreciated!
There is no doubt Trayvon was on top of GZ and shot through the chest (entrance wound and no exit wound).
However, that was due to GZ’s criminal justice training in how to commit pre-meditated racial-profiling murder of innocent skittle-bearing youth and make it look like self-defense.
GZ is the most clever fiend since Professor Moriarty. Only a regular Sherlock Holmes like BDLR could out fox him.
LOL.. thanks. I was reading a debate that said the bullet trajectory and the FACT that GZ was on the bottom were still in dispute. What a sham of a trial. Im quite concerned however with the judge being CLEARLY in TMs corner and all women on the jury, this may not go as it should based on the law.
Andrew: Can you describe, what if anything you believe the defense should do to go after the criminal and unethical conduct of the prosecution and judge in this case?
I know what I have done and would do if I were Zimmerman, but I’d like to hear your take on what, if anything you feel should be done in response to the criminal and unethical conduct of the prosecution and judge in this case?
I’d post my thoughts on how I would deal with the criminal and unethical conduct of the prosecution and judge, but I admit as a non-Floridian to being lazy and not wanting to take the time to go thru the Florida statutes to explain my approach and strategy at this time.
As for Bao. My take on Bao’s testimony is he is a little man in fear of his job. This guy went out of his way to employ the Schultz defense: “I KNOW NOTHING COLONEL HOGAN!”
The defense has filed a motion for sanctions against the State prosecutors for their discovery shenanigans, but the motion is heard by Nelson, and she’s suspended hearing it until the [guilty] verdict is returned.
Longer term things can move higher, but nothing is going to happen until a verdict (or hung jury) has occurred.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
OK, Andrew, are you feeling depressed this evening? Because no one paying attention could miss your little “guilty or hung jury” comment. Are you smelling that the fix is in?
What is a sanction in this type situation? Would it be a fine? If so, who pays it, the lawyers or taxpayers?
Bao was an absolute disaster for the State. Their case is now irretrievably tainted and subject to a reversal in the event of a conviction and subsequent appeal.
Bao did not testify from memory as every witness is required to do. He specifically stated he could not remember the autopsy at all. He also testified that the “hundreds of hours” of trial prep he supposedly did, did not serve to refresh his recollection–he STILL couldn’t remember anything at the time of the trial.
When the fiasco of his “secret trial notes” was exposed, he admitted that he was simply reading his testimony from those notes–NOT that he used them to refresh his recollection.
Witnesses simply aren’t permitted to testify from their notes (although it happens a lot with police officers reading from their police reports). They have to testify from recollection. They are allowed to use their notes but only to refresh their recollection. Bao clearly said even after attempting to refresh with his notes, he couldn’t actually remember anything.
His autopsy notes themselves (not the secret trial notes) may or may not be independently admissible as business records depending upon FL criminal procedure law. But he can’t simply read his testimony from his “secret notes” into evidence, which is what he was doing.
It’s completely improper, it taints the entirety of the State’s case, it is harmful error, and I don’t imagine there’s a jury instruction conceivable which could adequately cure the prejudice to the defendant.
Another issue–the Richardson hearing was a farce. I DISTINCTLY recall Bao testifying that he DID tell BLDR about the change in his testimony during their 40 minute meeting the day before the trial. If so the transcript will reflect that and it will be potentially a huge problem on appeal. It may also be a huge ethical problem for BDLR. Of course an appellate court could deem the prejudice of the late disclosure “cured” because defense had a brief opportunity to review the notes and cross Bao on them.
But still.
It stinks like a three day old mackerel.
I could not agree more with your analysis of Bao’s testimony, Marco. I am not going to research it (after all I am retired), but from memory and the experience of trying several hundred cases over the past 48 years in federal courts and in state courts of more than 20 states including FL, testimony derived exclusively from notes not made contemporaneously in the ordinary course of business, is inadmissible as hearsay as a matter of law. His entire testimony should be excluded from evidence, IMO.
When police officers are allowed to testify from notes, those notes are made contemporaneously with the events described therein, and in the ordinary course of the police officer’s business. The testimony is therefore admissible under the business records exception to the hearsay rule.
I can attest to this. I was on vacation today and listened to the entire trial. Hard to say if it will be in the transcript, because the court reporter was having great difficulty following Dr. Bao. It should be on the Youtube video though.
And here’s the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKJF9iqcqls
The discussion begins at 10:36 on the tape, and he says BDLR told him they weren’t to discuss the toxicology report (at about 11:24) because of some technical issue (probably referring to the court’s order that it would not be brought into evidence.)
So it looks like BDLR is off the hook.
Attention:
Just wanted y’all to know I’m setting up a LI Commenters’ Detox Center for when the Zimmerman trial ends. I’m actually a professional at this, so rest assured we’ll be there for you if the withdrawals get a little rough.
Can’t we just adopt another trial or cause or something and get you to manage it?
:wicked:
But LI and Andrew Branca are not going away after this trial. They will take on the next high publicy case and we can all do it again then.
Right, Andrew? 😉
If not, we can always gather at the lawofselfdefense site and hang there.
As long as George is acquitted, I’ll be fine.
If not, I will be stopping in to commiserate.
LOL. I just got off the phone with my daughter in MO and we were both wondering what we would do all day when this trial is over. I follow Andrew’s tweets all day and then read his summaries and discussion threads at night! Hoping for the right verdict!
i’m sure the defense will have some witnesses the prosecution can’t turn and havn’t called
Congrats to Andrew for the props from the papers. Did they add that you’re also quite funny?
The family and the screams is nonsense and seeing it in a courtroom was embarrassing.
Will Mark “Oops, I put my client on Hannity” O’Mara call anyone to testify that the lack of bruising, cuts, etc., on either individual is not necessarily indicative of a lack of
violent contact?
And what’s up with Don West and his deep, anguished pauses? It’s like he under perpetual and horrific existential angst.
Knock Knock
Who’s there?
Don West
Don West who?
It’s me, Don West, and I’m here to do the closing.
Umm…….Is there still time for me to plead?
Oh please… let O’Mara do the close. Puh- lease. It’s that important.
West is an excellent attorney and bad cop, but we need good cop to seal the deal.
Agreed!
Also got a mention in the Chicago Tribune the other day:
“20 things I think about the George Zimmerman case”
BY ERIC ZORN
http://is.gd/8TxgfS
🙂
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
It’s a good piece and I’m curious: As a self-defense expert do you agree with Zorn that Zimmerman lied about Martin going for the gun?
Did you catch how BDLR made such a big deal about TrayMom saying the voice was TM but GZ’s mother and uncle couldn’t identify the voice as GZ’s b/c they have never heard him yell for his life before. Like the jurors won’t think the same for TrayMom’s ID. He’s not a very good lawyer.
Jeralyn at Talk Left has a great article about the arguments made by both sides in defenses motion to acquit. She lets the state really have it for their lies and total BS during the rebuttal. http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/5/161524/9677/crimenews/George-Zimmerman-Trial-State-Rests-Court-Denies-Motion-to-Aquit
Mantei lied in rebuttal – could defense object during this process if there was a factual misstatement? Mantei said that in every GZ call to NEN he identified being with NWP except the TM night. FALSE. I took notes on those because I’m a geek. GZ doesn’t identify NWP in the first two calls because it hadn’t formed and met yet. Remember, these are the calls the prosecutors fought hard to admit. Then Mantei lies about it to prove GZ ill will in this rebuttal. He’s a dissembling 30 gallon Hefty Cinch Sak of feces.
If I have this level of grip on the details, I would be a dream or nightmare juror (depending if I’m on your side or not).
Heard Mantei more than once say that GZ had “grabbed” TM. There is no evidence that happened at all. He lied.
Having now heard almost all of the testimony in this case, courtesy of Andrew excellent documentation of the trial, IMO, the most persuasive and credible testimony came from GZ’s uncle. It effectively and completely neutralized the only corroborating testimony supporting TM’s mother’s testimony that TM’s was the voice yelling for help on the 911 call. GZ’s mom’s testimony, IMO was more persuasive than TM’s mother on that point. Comparing GZ’s uncle’s positive spontaneous opinion based on his one-time hearing of the agonizing cries for help with Trayvon’s half brother’s equivocal opinion after many hearings is a big plus for the defense.
Also, after hearing GZ’s mom and uncle, how can there be any question that he is genuinely hispanic. One listening to their accents removes all doubt about GZ’s ethnicity.
I agree, but I still wonder if it really matters.
If I was on the jury, I would have decided LONG ago that it was George screaming. It only makes sense that the guy with all the injuries was the guy screaming.
Family members claiming it was their son would hold very little weight with me.
I really like the fact the day ended with the uncle’s testimony, now the Jury will have that fresh in their minds all weekend long 😉
BDLR on CX of Jorge Meza tried to suggest that Meza came to that conclusion because there was a newscast caption with George Zimmerman’s name displayed and that’s how he concluded it was GZ. Jorge insisted he was in the next room on the computer and didn’t know his wife was watching the news. Sounds like a genuine panic reaction as if he heard GZ and had the instinct to respond and help. No coaching, no explicit meeting to listen to tape, totally spontaneous. Meza also maximized his credibility by stating his professional ethics and obligations as a sworn LEO and he prides himself in this and even slipped in his military pledge to such a code. Meza FTW.
Yes…. Meza, FTW, vs. Bao, WTF.
Why is it that I have genuine sorrow for TM’s father, brother, step-mother and even Brandy Green but his mother just rubs me the wrong way. Anyone else get that vibe from her? It seams this grab for the cash was her idea and the father just went along.
I think Javahris is a decent kid. Wants to be sincere and is caught, at a young age, between the very powerful forces of parents, media, community, etc.
He’s a sympathetic figure and I’m a little surprised that MOM decided to impeach his testimony. There will soon be opportunities with the real perpetrators of this atrocity.
Dang, another work day, so I am just know catching up watching the trial.
WOW! Quite fitting the state would end with Bao, one of the worst witnesses yet. hey, at least they kept their theme all the way until the end!
Seriously, this guy is a medical examiner and all he can come up with is that the gun was between .4 inches and 4 feet!?!? Incredible!!!
I think they got him to say one of the books on gunshots that he studied was by the guy the defense is going to call as a witness, right? Pretty sweet!
Can’t wait until Monday, that is when the fun will start. O’Mara and West must be enjoying this somewhat, I can’t imagine they have had many cases as easy as this one.
Our judge, little miss debbie nelson, is not a happy camper tonight! She was out to throw O’Mara off course. The time was 2 minutes to 5PM, when she told O’Mara he would be ON. But, in deference to the jury having to be there, they got called in. And, she whacks her ball at the jurors, for them to decide if they wanted to hear testimony right away. Or to recess for the weekend. They chose “to listen” and not go back to their hotel.
So O’Mara, in quick succession calls in Gladys Zimmerman, George’s mom. And, then his uncle, Jorge Meza (sp?)
Jorge’s testimony was absolutely breathtaking. Because he HEARD the scream before he even saw from where it came. Most of us have been on our computers, where we really are concentrating straight ahead.
Years ago, I was on this computer when I heard the sounds of a car accident coming from a busy corner nearby. Yes. You rise. And, you’re shocked.
And, in this note the jurors were released for this weekend’s recess.
If there had been a rug on the floor, under “little miss debbie’s” feet, she’d have gone flying into the air. I can’t imagine she’s a happy camper, tonight.
The judge probably thought O’Mara would flounder on his first witness. Instead, both his witnesses looked into each juror’s eyes. This was no mash up for O’Mara at all.
IKR? Great end of the day for defense. It would be great enough to end with that clunker of a ME Bao’s crapola testimony ringing in their ears all weekend…but even greater with the first two defense witnesses making BDLR use arguments in CX that also tear down his own witness SF logically. Meza’s resounding testimony and credibility is what is ringing in their ears all weekend. Kudos to defense to always finishing the day strong. I’m not in law but I imagine this defense will be studied in law schools as masterful practice and strategy.
Defense is being lobbed truckloads of lemons and they are so good, we are drowning in lemonade.
Great comment, Carol. You and I have been sometime commenters together on a number of blogs over the past 10 years or so. We have often differed, but, and mean this as a sincere complement, you and I are watching the same trial. I’m glad you are sharing your input.
If you don’t live in Florida, its really quite difficult to grasp the degree of moral inversion of this Kafkaesque place.
Since Zimm shouldn’t even be on trial, obviously he shouldn’t be convicted, certainly of M2. But I could see this clatch of hens going for manslaughter, regardless of the facts.
Believe me, they’re barely going to listen to the instructions, which Nelson will give to her sistren sideways anyhow.
So, a few lawyer questions: Can Zimm get a change of venue on appeal, preferably out of FL altogether?
If so, he might actually get a real judge and a sentient jury.
Can Zimm move for a bench verdict at the appellate stage?
Lastly, at the appeal stage: the Dersh?
I disagree with you on the female juror thing. I think if their minds were made up to go with the LSM media narrative, they wouldn’t be taking notes so avidly. It sounds like they are really paying attention and engaged in the process–wanting to make sure they get points that are important down for later deliberations. Plus, women can be hard on other women. They may feel a little sadness for Sybrina in that she lost a son BUT, and this is a big one, as I’ve said before, if they get the idea that she may not have been as engaged in her son’s life as she now seems to be, that won’t go over well. Men on the other hand won’t see it that way. Just watching her testimony this am before I headed for work then listening to the audio this evening made me shudder. It was cold and rehearsed. It’s been over a year yes and I think you’ve gathered I don’t have any sympathy for her because I truly believe she and Tracy are directing their anger at their own failures toward an innocent man but I still would have expected more emotion. Her son is dead…this is trial for ‘justice’ which she claims she wants. She was too distant IMO.
I don’t know about the female thing either (being one), but the media coverage and civilian commentary on this case has me kind of depressed. So much ignorance of the law. So many assumptions about Zimmerman’s thoughts, feelings and actions that are completely unsupported by facts. So many people who just want their side to win, truth be damned. So many people grasping at anything that supports their POV and ignoring everything else.
I hear you, but take comfort in what the poster above you wrote; i.e., these jurors are taking notes, and lots of them. As you know, the evidence all along has favored the defense and when it comes to deliberating, it will be all those pro-defense notes-the ones that come from those state and, eventually, this week’s defense witnesses-that will serve as the jurors’ guide.
It’s not as if they will have any other kind, given the catastrophe of a case the state has presented this week.
I have a gut feeling that there are at least two female jurors that “get it” in all ways. Especially as mothers; you don’t think they can’t read between the lines as to what was really going on in that TM family, or what kind of a gem TM really was, with friends like Jeantel in his social circle? Or get a sense from GZ’s mother and uncle as to just what kind of a decent background GZ comes from?
And, remember, this jury is completely sequestered and exposed only as to what goes on in that courtroom. Forget about the pundits-this jury is guarded because they have the fear of God put into them-not only to get this right, but not to get caught even looking so much as cross-eyed. You will never be able to read their thoughts, but I can tell you this; if they all had an agenda, they would just sit there and bide their time. No notes needed.
It is significant to me that they didn’t bother (understandably) with note-taking when it came to the hilariously inept Dr. Bao. To do so would be useless and they knew it-which is, conversely, another way of saying that they genuinely want legitimate testimony that they can take seriously and hang their hat on.
And, by testimony, I refer to the sort they’ve been told to forget; the sort, for example, where an investigator told them under oath that he believed GZ was telling him the truth. Or that GZ was relieved at the prospect of a hidden camera. Or that if GZ was in fear for his life, he was entitled to address that force accordingly. Or that he turned down the opportunity to be a “neighborhood cop”. Or that he wanted to be a state prosecutor.
Or that he was screaming for help, just like he told the cops and just like a voice from the tape reflected.
I could go on and on with those points-points that the jury has taken down, the totality of which they (not to mention an appeals court) simply cannot ignore given what the state MUST prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
Which they have not.
These notes will be especially relevant after the state is placed on the defensive (well, more than they’ve already been). In that regard, MOM and Co. have been absolute GENIUS-you simply can’t know how difficult it is to cross-examine so many witnesses with the devastating, and often near flawless manner, with which they did this week.
And to do it every hour, day after day, in that hostile climate? This defense will go down as the stuff of legend.
What you saw this week is just the tip of the iceberg: just wait for the defense. It will be ferocious and it will be devastating, and just like that sheep dog protecting the innocent lamb from the wolf which Andrew referenced? Well, the monstrous wolf will soon find itself limping away very badly and permanently damaged, damning the day it ever got dragged into this fiasco.
I assure you that MOM and Co.’s collective talent, coupled with the state’s virtual dearth of direct and laughably tenuous circumstantial evidence, is making the state-along with every community leader and politician-very, very nervous.
So, have faith. :0)
It only takes one rational juror. I feel confident at least one will judge by evidence and not be swayed by public pressure.
In all my years as a prosecutor in which I was able to listen to experts of all types, never have I come across such a train wreck that was Dr. Bao. Not even close; it was as if this guy simply operating on a whole other plane and I had a very difficult time keeping up with him and absorbing the jist of his testimony.
The uncle really got to me. He was so dignified and eloquent, far more credible to me than TM’s cagey mother.
As for the judge, she should be ashamed of herself. First, she knows perfectly well that this case should not even be before the court and that a dismissal is more that warranted based on the state’s presentation, which has been nothing short of disastrous, having failed to hit ANY elements contained in the murder statute-something they MUST DO to prove their case.
Yet, this woman has neither the backbone, nor the moral compunction, to do what she KNOWS to be the right thing.
The barely disguised disdain that she has exhibited for the defense throughout this farce speaks to her complete lack of maturity as a jurist and I am very interested to see how she fares by way of the state’s objections when MOM presents his defense witnesses.
Either way, I see too many reversible errors on her part even if GZ is convicted (God forbid).
What a mess.
Talking head on Greta show said these jurors are avid note takers, and they didn’t take notes during Bao’s testimony. Commentator expected them to take notes when key points emerged, but they didn’t. Interesting!!!
Question about juror notes for the legal beagles here. We hear judge’s instructions to leave notepads face down on their chairs when they leave. That’s overnight too, right? Is that a secured and guarded area? I would imagine that there is a serious temptation to sneak a peak at those notes. Those notes are valuable. Reassure me that they are totally 100% secured.
Secured like our NSA secrets…???
The courtroom is locked overnight, starting the time the bailiff leaves.
The judge, I use that term loosely, does not want the Blacks to attack her…she’s rather have the jury take the blame.
One thing I want to know: where did Nancy Grace get the Paula Dean costume.
Andrew, please hurry up with the Kindle version. Everyone living near a multi-cultural American city may need your advice soon. I do live near such a city and need such advice but since I am moving I don’t want to pack another damn book.
Thanks for your efforts and your humor. Humor is so important. The only people funnier than lawyers are urologists.
I know George’s uncle very well. He is beautiful and everything our patriarchs should be. Nothing at all against matriarchs, it’s just that he’s a guy. If we are fortunate and have chosen our parents wisely we might know such a man. If Trayvon had known such a man maybe none of this would have happened. What is sad is that so much of the world does not recognize Command Sergeant Major Meza as being anything other than what passes for a man in poor Trayvon’s life.
If George’s last name had been Meza or Sanchez or Lopez instead of Zimmerman would he even have been charged?
Thanks for the kind words.
Kindle version is on the way, but there are a LOT of tables in my book to cover every aspect of the law of self defense for 50 states, and Kindle is not nice to tables. So, lots of re-coding involved.
Nobody wants it out more than me, you’re far from the only person clamoring for it.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Bildung: I don’t practice in Florida, but in the state in which I am licensed: Re: Change of venue on appeal. This assumes a conviction. In my state, the matter could be reversed based upon the need for a change of venue, but is highly unlikely (also, was the issue preserved in a pretrial ruling?). Anyway, the case would have to be tried in Florida for jurisdictional reasons. Also, a change of venue doesn’t necessarily get you a change of judge. Re: Moving for a bench verdict. I’ve never heard that term before, but on appeal he would certainly raise a challenge to the sufficiency of the evidence. That was at the root of counsel’s motion for directed verdict. If reversed on this basis (again, in my state), the case is reversed for dismissal with prejudice (it can’t be refiled again). Dershowitz on appeal? I respect Mr. D based upon his willingness to represent very unpopular clients. However, I, myself, would prefer someone cut from the same cloth as, let’s say, the late Robert Bork.
Thanks!
You mean the Bork of “The 10th Amendment is a Rorschach test” ? That Bork?
Again Andrew, your analysis is spot on. It boggles my mind that a Judge in Good Standing (lol) in the State of Florida would allow this show to continue. Personally I think Washington is in her ear, and she is going to let the Jury do her heavy lifting for her. What bugs me the most about her though, is she is on her way out (Of Criminal Court anyways) and what is she so afraid of?
She knows the 5th DCA is watching her. Mark O’Mara subtly reminded her that the DCA is watching her, and I think she is heading for another Appeal Court Smack Down over this case and it may be the one that finally removes her completely from the bench IMHO.
IANAL, but you’re right..in all my time as a Detention/County Court Officer I have sat through many a trial and had never heard a Medical Examiner as shifty, combative, and incompetent as Bao was. No oversight of his subordinates, Managing the integrity of his particular office is lost on him, and he did not seem to care a bit yet he had the unmitigated gall to tell an out of state news source that he was prepared for the Defense to attack his credibility on why he left a previous agency!
This is the kind of criminal case that is rage inducing in its surreality. And I hope to hope the Jury isn’t seeing through the utter BS smearing of this State Attorney Team.
Thanks!
Meant to say IS seeing through the BS
Off topic question for our esteemed host, Mr. Andrew F. Branca. Are you the same A. F. Branca as the Obamacare cartoon featured on the LI page? If so…impressive…man of many talents. If not, heck, claim it anyway. I built a resume off googling my name on the internet once and I am pretty impressive. LOL
Not a resume I used in a job search. It was a humorous exercise. My HS reunion is coming up soon and I should claim all those accomplishments for the “Where Are They Now” book they’re compiling. People would google to verify my awesomeness and find it’s true. LOL Again I am joking. I am an honest person. I don’t have a good enough memory to lie.
Answered by own question…Branco =/= Branco, and I clicked through and his pic is on his website and it’s not you. I shoulda clicked through first!!!
That is Branca =/= Branco
I had a friend in high school named Waldrop, and used to aggravate him regularly by asking if he were any relation to Darrell Waltrip. Good guy, but he never got it, must have corrected me a dozen times.
I just saw both mom’s testimony side by side in the local news, and paid specific attention to body language.
You will notice TM’s mom has a faster blink rate (nervous) and looks slightly to the left right before spewing out TM’s full name, which would be recalling or retrieving a fact. since she knows his name, I am thinking she quickly recalled what she was prepped to say, in order to not mess up.
on the Flip side, GZ’s mom had a normal blink rate and did not flinch when she answered ‘my son, George’.
Don’t be surprised.
ANY witness with a decent lawyer working the case has been taught to testify, at least some.
Not WHAT to say, but how to say it.
And the Martin parents were pivotal witnesses for the State. She was a potential minefield.
[…] I’ll let Andrew Branca at Legal Insurrection sum up: […]
Can anyone provide me with the exact quote of Nelson’s dismissal denial. I’m real old and don’t hear well.
To me, it sounded like she said, “I have thoroughly digested both your packets, am acutely familiar with all pertinent cases and laws, and
Mr. O’Mara, suck an egg. Call your next witness”
Pretty much the way I heard it, but what I heard was a bit more vulgar than that. 😉
Nelson is still smarting from the spanking she received in the Appeals overturning of her ‘ experts’ audio tape admission.
The State’s evidence is flimsier than a stripper’s g-string but probably (barely) sufficient to justify Judge Nelson’s denial of the motion for an acquittal.
This case seethes with reasonable doubt.
1. Bao–on direct he says TM can’t move after being shot; on X he admits he could have moved (so hands could have ended up underneath the body). Bao also agreed that the knuckle scrapes were consistent with having hit GZ and could have been incurred prior to the shot. Bao also admitted on X that the abrasions couldn’t have come from grass (i.e. contact with concrete sidewalk implied if not GZ’s head). Confirmed many discrepancies & procedural screw ups in forensic evidence collection and preservation.
2. Mr. Good–he clearly placed TM as the aggressor, on top, immediately before the shooting, ground and pounding: This witness provides at least reasonable doubt on GZ’s self defense claim.
3. Captain Carter–confirmed you don’t have to wait to get beat down or injured to resort to deadly force in self defense depending on the threat level. George was a good student.
4. TM’s brother–admitted that he failed to identify his bro as the screamer initially. Later identification attributable to family bias.
5. TM’s mom–id of voice attributable to family bias.
6. George’s Uncle–rock solid credibility, clearly identified GZ as the screamer. Although family bias applies it doesn’t negate the reasonable doubt unless the jury believes the uncle is completely making up his testimony. Highly unlikely.
7. George’s mom–not quite as solid or credible as uncle but corroborative of reasonable doubt on who screamed.
8. George’s hearsay statements to the police–reasonably consistent with the objectively verifiable facts. No major discrepancies. Any minor discrepancies actually tend to make him more credible as appearing “unscripted” (unlike Bao LOL).
What’s missing from the State’s case–any real affirmative evidence that George Z. was motivated by malice or racial hatred toward blacks in general or TM in particular. Any real evidence that washing out as an LEO frustrated him to the extent he would want to commit homicide in the guise of a wannabe cop. Both contentions seem to be pure speculation that sound good in theory but haven’t been backed up by the trial evidence in any way shape or form.
Nonsense as to your primary assertion.
The bar for a directed acquittal is extremely high. The State met it.
BTW, what about that motion for mistrial that O’Mara HAD to make…???
The bar for the DEFENSE is extremely high. The State met their low requirement.
That’s better…
Marco,
I’ve seen this yahoo, ragamuffin, on other sites and he/she/it is a troll and can be ignored, as I do. Your take is very reasonable. I am not so forgiving when it comes to Judge Nelson because of the way she handled the motion to depose Crump and the motions to rap the knuckles of the prosecution for their dereliction of duty to provide the defense exculpatory evidence in a timely manner.
These and other actions exhibit a lack of judicial probity and should get her a reprimand of one kind or another as well as provide the defense solid grounds for reversal if the jury does convict. Whether or not she is punished as she should be will be a political decision alone.
Very importantly, Bao retracts his prior opinion and says his later research has shown that the various drugs in Trayvon Martin’s system would have influenced his mental state and behavior. That is true, the use of marijuana is associated with more crimes than any other drug. Whether there is published research about the combination of ‘purple drank’ (juice + skittle + codeine) and blunts (hollowed out cigars stuffed with marijuana and smoked together) remains to be seen.
Codeine itself is associated with behavioral changes including aggression:
—
2.1. Opiates (morphine, heroin, and codeine)
Like benzodiazepines, there is considerable confusion regarding the extent to which
opiates are linked to instances of interpersonal aggression. Again like benzodiazepines, a
complex interplay of interpersonal and pharmacologic factors (including withdrawal
factors) are likely at the root of instances of violence manifested by opiate users and/or
abusers.
A large body of literature on the effects of opioids on aggression in animals suggests that
morphine and other opium derivatives temporarily reduce aggressive behavior (Espert,
Navarro, Salvador, & Simon, 1993; Haney & Miczek, 1989; Miczek, Weerts, & DeBold
1993), although this effect, like many of the effects of opioids, will diminish as tolerance
develops (Rodriguez-Arias, Minarro, & Simon, 2001).
http://www.ukcia.org/research/AgressiveBehavior.pdf
—
We do know that Trayvon loved to post the details about his exploits with drugs and fighting, etc. online. He was probably seeing the evening as an opportunity to post a trophy win (beating up a creepy ass-cracker) and would post this mark of his manhood in all its gory details for his public.
Trayvon swung at or hit a bus driver and bragged about it to a friend. TM was a more experienced at MMA than GZ.
Face it, George was never going to be a Chuck Norris. He was more suited to law than law enforcement.
As for Trayvon, he was likely never going to be 40 years old without a prison record, unless he repented of his ways and turned from the deadly black gangsta culture.
Well yes. Marijuana IS associated with commission of lots of crimes. The use of marijuana.
The only PROVEN criminogenic drug (violence) is alcohol.
i think the timelime and debri field will be crucial
Today I watched, with interest, the effort of the prosecutors to enter evidence of the weather conditions recorded at a weather station located in a park in Sanford which was some five or six miles from the gated complex where GZ lived.
Those of us up here in flyover country who follow dangerous storm conditions on the internet know that rainfall conditions can vary within very small areas. I have observed rain pounding a parking lot just a block away from my house while not a drop of water struck my roof. Meanwhile the real-time weather map broadcast confirmed my visual observation that the storm was not above my house.
So Judge Nelson thought five or six miles was close enough to admit the evidence. I would give her the benefit of the doubt only if she was thinking about hurricanes – but I believe she thought that the prosecution needed the edge.
This sounds like the defense needs an expert – as long as that expert is not Billy Ayres.
good point
🙂
dna is only iteresting when you find it
west laid this out in his opening
the state has yet to prove anything
Au contraire, mon frère.
They have proven many things.
Many of them unintentional and unflattering to themselves.
And, more to the point here, they have met the very low bar to keep from being poured out of court on an directed acquittal.
Which is not “proving” anything, but successfully raising issues material to the case.
I am trying think what it must be like to be a member of the jury and listening to this train wreck of a prosecution case without any commentary from the mainstream media cheerleaders. I suspect at this point the jury os thinking the States case must be some sort of elaborate truco question.
oops, that should be “trick” question.
I bet they like Zimmerman. I think that is the big, overarching thing.
Again, Hirschhorn is earning his money.
i thought the state did an amazing job in the casey anthony case, although missed out on some key points and didn’t drive them all the way home
who puts trash in their car? when the dumpster is there? i don’t know anyone who does that. who drives around with garbage in the car? nobody. cmon
it stinks
no matter how this case ends, gz will live to fight another day
everybody knows this
I’ve been trying all night to get grass stains on the knees of my britches while laying flat on my back and there was only one position where it could even be remotely possible and I don’t recall anyone testifying to seeing anyone’s head up there butt. However, the same cannot be said about some of the prosecution’s witnesses. 🙂
If Bao didn’t try to determine the trajectory of the bullet during autopsy who would/did?
The autopsy report does make note of the path and direction of the bullet: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/120687039/Trayvon-Martin-autopsy-report
I’m wondering if this information is enough for the defense’s gunshot expert to determine the trajectory.
it was obvious the shot happened point blank -the opening statement of the state
pressed the gun into tm chest
Uh. Not pressed against the skin. Are you paying attention?
For the lawyers of the blog, is the motion for direct verdict made so that DCAs can reverse that error on the part of the trial judge?
No. The standard of review requires the trial court to take all State evidence in its best light. No appeals court is likely to displace the judge’s ruling on that motion.
According to Tertullus | July 5, 2013 at 4:04 pm
https://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/zimmerman-trial-day-9-live-video-analysis-of-states-case-witnesses/comment-page-7/#comment-440950
….
this is very rarely granted, especially at this stage of a trial.
it almost happened
Andrew, all I can say is if you are going to try to analyze the ME’s testimony then May the Lord Bless and keep you. You have my prayers.
the shot could have been 4 foot away
knowing what little i do-that’s impossible
I know where the bullet wound up but at what angle did it enter the body? I think the defense asked Bao whether he did any such test didn’t he?
the bullet was straight through the heart
it was a hollow point and fragments went thru the heart and into tm lung
where he might have lived as much as 10 minutes but unable to move
ur kidding?
we need more
does anyone buy gz didn’t know that tm was shot
and to his dismay killed?
keep in mind gz was soft
he strikes me as soft
why didn’t tm put his cell phone up and go home
Last comment for the night. On the way to the drive in (yes they still exist here and Despicable Me 2 was cute) we were listening to the local punditry. Caller after caller mentioned how biased the judge is or appears to be and every time, the pundits, one of whom is a local lawyer I believe, defended her. Saying things like…well, she has ruled against the prosecution…she has to stay on schedule….she has to make judgements on the fly, etc. Only reason I could think is that lawyer is probably thinking she better not say anything lest she has to appear in front of Nelson one day. Anyone local notice the same thing?
The judge has to stay on schedule? Only if she’s running a railroad … which, I suppose, she is.
blow by blow from apparently a good friend
[…] have been following, avidly, the George Zimmerman case. The trial is a circus and the prosecution has made a terrible case (it rested today). Actually […]
what do i do?
What you can do is take your spam and f*** off.
she says run
tm says i’m there
she says run faster, he might rape you
tm says i’m there
i wish we had both storys
but this mess to bed
hard dfor me to imagine that this was brought to trail after corey decided that a woman one step removed from grunts and squeaks showed up
First of all I’m not conservative. So I am of the opinion this case reaches across a broad spectrum. While if you have a day job, the only way you can catch the tidbits is to Google. For instance, I have a lawyer friend strictly over the Internet. And, I emailed him, today, and asked if he had seen Shiping Bao’s testimony. He emailed back and said “no,” so I said he better look. Because nothing of its kind has ever appeared in a trial before. (To my knowledge.)
I also know GROUNDSWELL isn’t overnight. I was in my 20’s when Vietnam went from being “great, we’re at war,” to the opposite: How did we get in here? Why are we drafting our own 18 year olds? Why are so many kids running to Canada? And, then? LBJ’s hopes for a second term blew up in smoke. Nixon came in. And, then, for Nixon to save his own skin (which he couldn’t do), he eliminated the draft.
So the “popular” Vietnam War had a GROUNDSWELL that eventually inundated the pro war affectionato’s. Mitt Romney’s dad suffered from “brainwashing.”
I think this case is similar. You just haven’t seen the groundswell, yet. But it will come.
Meanwhile, wait until how this medical examiner, Dr. Bao, has no memory, because his memories wipe out at the end of each day. He has no responsibilities. And, heck, if you had a knife and fork, you could show up and be a medical examiner. Especially with Chinese credentials. Which, I suppose, is better than getting them off of a cereal box top.
We’re also assuming that the prosecutors pay no price for exaggeration. Including Mantei’s ability to keep on weaving the state’s case out of pure fiction.
You know, if I didn’t see this happening myself, I would say obama is as popular today as the day he got re-elected. But I know Obama’s popularity has tanked.
So just like this case, some things just tank.
Starting on Monday O’Mara gets to bring out his own guns. Ladies of the jury? What makes you think they won’t be influenced by competence?
And, yes. I believe our little judge debbie nelson went home to night totally frustrated. She was sure when she told O’Mara he had to start his case, immediately at 5PM, she thought she was gonna be the master of the clock.
She lost her bet.
this case is one smelly turd