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Law schools are turning out too many social engineers

Law schools are turning out too many social engineers

This week has made my head hurt from all the shaking in disbelief.

It’s almost overwhelming, the multitude of absurd race-agitating actions and words coming from those who refuse to accept the facts and law as to the Zimmerman trial.

This lawyer interviewed by Greta is part of the Parks and Crump law firm which represents the Martin family and was behind the publicity campaign to get George Zimmerman charged.  She’s been on a PR tear since the beginning of the case, and recently was on TV in a hoodie.

(via American Glob)

While most people are focusing on her “social engineer” comment, her statement near the end of the segment supporting federal charges because “that’s why we have federal preemption” was more revealing.

A federal hate crimes charge (assuming it applied) would have nothing to do with preemption.  [Note added:  The police in the Rondey King case were prosecuted under a federal civil rights statute which would not apply because it requires acting under color of law.]

Preemption occurs when a federal law overrides inconsistent state laws, or supplants them completely in some cases. Think the Arizona immigration case recently decided by the Supreme Court.  Think federal civil rights legislation overriding any contrary state laws.

A federal hate crimes charge would not preempt state homicide laws, however.  If that were the case, Florida would not have been able to prosecute Zimmerman for murder.  So a federal hate crimes charge would be the exact opposite of the preemption doctrine invoked by the lawyer.  And she’s an adjunct law professor at Florida A&M to boot.

This is what happens when law schools train social engineers.  The line between the rule of law and politics disappears.


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Great Headline!
Greta slammed that idiot last night. It was a thing of beauty.

littlebeartoe | July 16, 2013 at 5:53 pm

Just remember: they might be stupid. This woman appears to be stupid. It’s in keeping with Occam’s Razor. Lawyers tend to think they’re rully, rully smart, and they often are, but sometimes they’re stupid.

I know, right?

Many. MANY of the law school “clinic” I am aware of are nothing more than Collectivist boiler-rooms, staffed by law students and directed by full-tilt, no-holds-barred dogmatic Collectivist instructors who TOTALLY call the shots…

at tax-payer expense.

Greta was pretty amazing ripping Ms Jasmine and her social engineering to shreds. That this woman has been employed by a law school to teach future attorneys is about as scary as it gets.

    wyntre in reply to Mary Sue. | July 16, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    I LOVED the expression on Great’s face!

    If looks could kill . . .

      M3Princess in reply to wyntre. | July 16, 2013 at 7:34 pm

      I disagree with all the comments here. This chic is super smart and makes some really good points. She has given me another perspective and has, shall we say, “got myself in touch with myself”. If she says the jury is wrong, then dammit it, it was wrong. Cant you all just agree. Zimmerman is a murderer and thats that. She is so smart and greta is a moron. Ok, my wife left, so i gotta go for round 2 of happy time. Bye

“The line between the rule of law and politics disappears” —
My two cents, this is also what happens when you appoint Supreme Court justices who believe in the law “evolving”.

Soo umm, Costanza shows up with Jasmine and da’ Bubble Boy says:
“Bubble Boy: What’s your story?
Susan Jasmine: I-I-I have no story.
George: She works for NBC a race baiting law firm.
Bubble Boy: How ’bout takin your top off.

Prepare for some more shaking, Professor.

Check this out!

DOJ solicits email tips in Zimmerman civil rights probe

The U.S. Department of Justice on Monday afternoon appealed to civil rights groups and community leaders, nationally and in Sanford, for help investigating whether a federal criminal case might be brought against George Zimmerman for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, one advocate said.

The DOJ has also set up a public email address to take in tips on its civil rights investigation.

That email address, which is now in operation, is [email protected].,0,4338518.story

    wyntre in reply to wyntre. | July 16, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    To the lawyers, isn’t this Double Jeopardy? Aren’t citizens protected against this kind of witch hunt?

      Observer in reply to wyntre. | July 16, 2013 at 6:42 pm

      There are some exceptions to the double jeopardy rule. One of them is the “separate sovereigns” exception. Double jeopardy generally prohibits prosecutions for the same criminal act by the same sovereign, but since the state government and the federal government are separate sovereigns, both can bring separate prosecutions for the same act.

        sequester in reply to Observer. | July 16, 2013 at 7:02 pm

        Absolutely true, the “dual sovereignty exception”. However the US Attorney Manual 9-02.031 provides guidelines on successive prosecutions. Those guidelines are designed to prevent a second prosecution unless there has been some miscarriage of justice, not just an unhappy public. The relevant section reads in part:

        The [second] presumption may be overcome when a conviction was not achieved because of the following sorts of factors: first, incompetence, corruption, intimidation, or undue influence; second, court or jury nullification in clear disregard of the evidence or the law; third, the unavailability of significant evidence, either because it was not timely discovered or known by the prosecution, or because it was kept from the trier of fact’s consideration because of an erroneous interpretation of the law; fourth, the failure in a prior state prosecution to prove an element of a state offense that is not an element of the contemplated federal offense; and fifth, the exclusion of charges in a prior federal prosecution out of concern for fairness to other defendants, or for significant resource considerations that favored separate federal prosecutions

        What makes this interesting is that 18 USC 249 requires that manual guidelines concerning Hate Crimes be followed. Those guidelines indirectly reference this section of the US Attorney Manual.

        wyntre in reply to Observer. | July 16, 2013 at 7:18 pm


        I thought the state’s original charge of Second Degree Murder included malice, ill will, spite, etc. And the FBI interviewed roughly 40 witnesses and found no evidence of a “hate crime.” I guess those are unrelated investigations?

        And now Holder is pandering to the NAACP because their petition to investigate Zimmerman for Civil Rights violations has hit the 1 million mark.

        It is confusing and alarming. As one poster on another site put it:

        “The government just sanctioned a lynching.”

        For the DOJ to set up a tip line to elicit evidence of Zimmerman’s racial hatred is chilling.

    Uncle Samuel in reply to wyntre. | July 16, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    According to the great comments so far, the citizens of Sanford aren’t buying Holder’s con game.

    What Holder is trying to do is deprive George Zimmerman of his Civil Rights because of a drugged up thug who attempted to murder GZ.

    America is disgusted with the Gimmes and the Dhimmis and the Marxists and the Islamists.

    Americans don’t like all that social engineering and thuggery so much.

      Uncle Samuel in reply to Uncle Samuel. | July 16, 2013 at 6:26 pm

      Make that a *politically connected* drugged up thug.

      Sybrina Fulton’s brother-in-law is a big Miami Community Relations politician.

      wyntre in reply to Uncle Samuel. | July 16, 2013 at 7:20 pm

      Just read through the OS comments. But I would imagine the tips will mostly come from NAACP members and supporters.

    Observer in reply to wyntre. | July 16, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    It would almost be fun to watch Holder and his corrupt, racist minions (e.g., Tom Perez) at DOJ try to gin up some sort of federal hate crimes case against Zimmerman.

    It would be interesting to see the type of evidence DOJ prosecutors could conjure up to prove that George Zimmerman, a Democrat, an Obama voter, a man with a with a black great-grandfather, a man who worked with underprivileged black kids and spearheaded a campaign to get justice for an unjustly accused black man, is a secret Klan member.

      Uncle Samuel in reply to Observer. | July 16, 2013 at 6:32 pm

      I’m writing a movie script in my mind in which the Mossad or some secret Patriot special ops squad rescues George and family and takes revenge on Obama, Holder, AlGore, Pelosi, Biden, Reid, Hillary & Bill, Crump and company by tricking them into thinking they are going on an exclusive, expensive space ride to the moon and leaves them there in a secretly constructed space station with enough food (MRE, of course) and water for a hundred years.

      moonstone716 in reply to Observer. | July 17, 2013 at 5:48 am

      I don’t think it’s funny. They can get anyone to lie about anything they need them to say.

    robbi in reply to wyntre. | July 16, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Just sent an email to the address asking them to look into the violation of George Zimmerman’s civil rights by Angela Corey.
    Thanks for the link!

    seeing_eye in reply to wyntre. | July 17, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Isn’t this about the same as the DOJ asking citizens to improvise, dig up, or invent some kind of charge against Zimmerman? They’re trying to railroad him again?

Not a ‘Social Engineer’. Jasmine Rand is a Left Wing Anarchist and Domestic Enemy of the Constitution. Don’t think she’ll mind if her constitutional liberties were violated and we try her in a kangaroo court.

I’m seeing commentary to the effect that the federal investigation failed to find evidence of racial animosity toward black people on the part of GZ, and therefore prosecution would be difficult. That understates matters significantly. All the evidence that has become public indicates that GZ’s attitude toward black people was friendly, even benevolent. An indictment would be a farce.

However, the feds may look at it from a different perspective. Indicting GZ would tie up his life for another year possibly, make him more indebted than he already is, and keep him in the spotlight and in danger for an extended period. And that’s if he is found innocent! So if the decision makers at the Justice Department think of the indictment itself as the punishment, it might be a rational thing for them to do.

    MouseTheLuckyDog in reply to James IIa. | July 16, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    I don’t know how federal criminal trials work ( as opposed tos tate crminal trials ), but I suspect there is something similar to a preliminary hearing and a motion to dismiss which it would have to survive to actually have a trial and I don’t think it can.

      James IIa in reply to MouseTheLuckyDog. | July 16, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      Understood. But you could have said much the same thing about the state trial.

        MouseTheLuckyDog in reply to James IIa. | July 16, 2013 at 6:42 pm

        The charges are different. In the Florida case they have to prove the elements for murder/manslaughter need to be there and those were basically there in a degree sufficient ot go to trial.

        For the Federal hate crime laws though, they have to show some form of racism on George ZImmermans part. Don’t get me wrong they might get the right judge, but I think they want to make sure that they have enough evidence to get past most judges.

          No, they prove the elements for murder/manslaughter. Angela Corey deliberately held back pictures of George Zimmerman’s injuries when she went forward with the case. She misled the people.

      Sorry, meant to say they did not prove the elements for murder/manslaughter.

      James IIa in reply to MouseTheLuckyDog. | July 16, 2013 at 8:15 pm

      Mouse, I’m totally with you on the description of the way things should work. At the state level there was a judge tasked to screen the request for an indictment, and, by a combination of the prosecutor omitting information and possibly a judge not looking too carefully, the indictment was waved through. Alan Dershowitz explained this pretty fully in various interviews. I don’t doubt that our attorney general could arrange for the same sort of thing on the federal level.

That this woman has been employed by a law school to teach future attorneys is about as scary as it gets.

Just wait until she becomes a judge!!

Carol Herman | July 16, 2013 at 6:10 pm

Costs money to go. And, like graduates of gender studies, or black studies, or really crappy studies, after they graduate they can’t find jobs.

So then you hear of all those law school graduates who end up driving taxis because their bills are real.

How did this twit pass a bar exam?

Doug Wright | July 16, 2013 at 6:31 pm

In the greater scheme of things, we’re totally irrelevant compared to Obama’s strong desire to radically transform this country. Obama’s excreting much effort in working to achieve his goal. A few more cases like the current Zimmerman vs. Martin case and the radical demand for changes will only increase and too the demand for more “social justice” will only increase.

Too many of us only consider the facts of a case and the law as defined, the social justice crowd considers only that which is perceived to be of benefit towards reaching their goal of overturning our way of life. So, when we chide them, realize also, in their minds, they are making progress towards their goal.

They could care less whether we agree with them or not, they only care about subverting our society, with or without our assistance.

[…] UPDATE: William Jacobson offers some fascinating legal analysis on this here. […]

Uncle Samuel | July 16, 2013 at 6:41 pm

George Zimmerman’s parents are in hiding because of the numerous death threats.

Barbara Walters interview”

America has been the victim of social engineering since the birth of the politically correct movement some forty years ago. All it has gotten us is more discontent, more inequality and more dependency on government. It is the democrats wet dream come true and a golden source of votes.

Radical left academia is a hotbed of crazy ideas none of which serve the nation well. In fact the indoctrination of our kids are leading all of us to a financial and practical abyss from which there may be no escape…

Because I am a patent attorney, I must admit that I like lawyers who are engineers. I like them because they have enough of a technical background to do math and detect lies.

“Social engineeers” aren’t engineers. They are, as you observed, politicians. I would add they are politicians trying to bootstrap they reputations by claiming a scientific background they do not have.

    Icepilot in reply to Valerie. | July 16, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    Truly. “Social Engineer” is an oxymoron. All such should be identified simply as Bull Majors.

Calling her a social engineer is an insult to engineers.

Jasmine, you ignorant slut.

Non sequitur.

Following proper autopsy procedure involves taking fingerprints.

I imagine this is a non-starter. Notwithstanding, if the woman whose home was burglarized for the jewelry that Trayvon had in his possession was willing, and if it remains feasible to extract evidence, it might be fruitful to examine the burglar’s points of access and egress for fingerprints.

Jasmine spoke of social engineering, if you do not know what that is please find some time to do a little research.

Regarding poor George… The “Occupy” crazies are on board; there was a blog about that the other day, and we all know what a mess they can create. But the “Never let a crisis go to waste” thing is in full swing and George is in a real shyte storm and everyone is using him to promote their agenda(s). But seriously folks, George has a lot of organizations and people working to keep him in the Justice Dept crosshairs – how else could the Reverend Al promise protests in 100 cities? See below:
And here:

The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) is a Marxist-Leninst, working-class revolutionary party fighting for socialism in the United States.
The here:×500.jpg?fit=scale&background=111111&center=0,0
Organizing protests here:

SEIU here:×413.jpg

lo coalición primero de mayo – immigration reform, really!? here:
The Vision, the Works, the Leadership for a New Stage of Communist. Revolutionary Communist Party. Fight the Power!!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/usa-florida-shooting.jpg
And here:;380;7;70;0.jpg
And here:
Its national steering committee represents major national organizations that have campaigned against U.S. intervention in Latin America, the Caribbean, the Middle East and Asia, and organizations that have campaigned for civil rights and for social and economic justice for working and poor people inside the United States.

Workers World Party:

National Black Church Initiative
The National Black Church Initiative (NBCI) is a coalition of 34,000 African-American and Latino churches working to eradicate racial disparities in healthcare, technology, education, housing, and the environment.–/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTIxNDtxPTg1O3c9MzAw/

There are many more leaches using the George/Treyvon tragedy to their benefit(s), but I will stop now, you get the picture.

This girl is so smart. If crump hasnt defiled her, tell her to call me so we can discuss how its all unfair and what a dumbass jury it was. I agree with her. Unless someone on this forum is a woman, hot, and has big self-defense hooters.

Unfortunately, i have a feeling we are all just a bunch of ugly middle aged creepy white ass crackers so i guess no one can change my mind. Jasmine, i am your manservant!!!!

Way OT but also relevant.

I am still working my way through this lengthy investigative piece but if you want to know who’s who in the marketing and selling of the Trayvon Martin narrative and how it all leads directly back to Holder and the POS, check this out.

I retract every positive comment I made about this woman the other night. There’s no way I could manage to lie my way into the sack with her without vomiting.

Greta wrecked her. I wish the interview was twice as long.

    DriveBy in reply to Matt in FL. | July 16, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Matt, you are discussing your desire to have sex with a beautiful woman,an attorney, intelligent, representing a dead teenager and a cause that you reject – and then changing your mind about that desire; and all of that you are expressing on a blog on the internet! And the other day you talked about maybe having time to “now take a shower.” You are giving me a realistic belief (and a disturbing image) that the figurative of a character that lives in his mother’s basement, blogging away in a nasty t-shirt with Cheetoes crumbs on himself is real! Creepy. Very sorry Matt… for you. Gross.

      Matt in FL in reply to DriveBy. | July 17, 2013 at 12:26 am

      Pretty sure I never mentioned anything about a shower. I don’t recall anything to that effect, and Google can’t find it either. You’re more than welcome to provide proof, if you can find some. Seems kinda irrelevant.

      I live in Florida. Basements are pretty uncommon here. I actually live on the 2nd floor. My tshirt was clean when I put it on two hours ago. Cheetos are kinda nasty.

      You’re still just mad because I called you a concern troll. Got anything else of substance to say, or are we done here?

I don’t think the DoJ goes after Zimmerman for civil rights violations. I think it more likely they pursue some sort of wire or mail fraud charges regarding the defense fund, much as the state of Florida is going after Shellie Zimmerman for alleged perjury regarding that fund. I’m not saying there is anything untoward in the Zimmerman’s handling of that fund, only that it seems a likely avenue of attack and propaganda generation.

Hmmm, I see two legs sticking out under a bus and it appears to be driving back and forth. Hey it looks like George Zimmerman.

How low is it when the vocal civil rights group of your own ethnic group throws you under the bus and runs you over.

    This case is through the looking glass. Conservatives rooting for the defendant; an Hispanic Obama voter. Libs rooting for the prosecutor; Republicans to some degree, and at least by name. BdlR is a Republican; O’Mara is a Democrat.

Ms. Rand’s argument reminds me of the 4th commandment of flaming.

[Racists] abound: If everyone’s against you, the reason can’t possibly be that you’re a ******. There’s obviously a [racist] conspiracy against you, and you will be doing the entire [country] a favor by exposing it.

Further details at

I’m horrified. This woman needs to go to law school. Oh wait…

That she considers that her duties as a social engineer take precedence over her duties as a lawyer ought to be of interest to whatever bar she is admitted to.

Have got to tell you about Florida A&M University. It is Florida’s entry in the “historically black university” derby. Went to school at Florida State; both schools are in Tallahassee. FAMU has always had an attitude of “We’re black and therefore do not need to be bothered with the rules.” They have a long history of doing so, and I can quote you book and versed if another commenter wishes to challenge this.

So I would not take Ms. Rand as, pardon me, an expert witness…

    MAPTX in reply to NeoCon_1. | July 17, 2013 at 12:02 am

    Former student housing developer from Tallahassee and FSU graduate and all I have to say is LOL is I dare anyone to hang around for FAMU homecoming weekend or for the spring whatever weekend

    moonstone716 in reply to NeoCon_1. | July 17, 2013 at 6:02 am

    Correct. I am in Florida and just chuckle when I receive a resume from a FAMU “graduate.”

DesertViking | July 16, 2013 at 11:57 pm

Social Justice is the participation trophy of legal arguments.

What an idiot! She is an attorney and has no idea what the job of an attorney is. Hopefully she will realize what a dumba$$ she was on Fox, and she will drop out of lawyering and go into civil engineering (instead of social engineering).

In the meantime, what about Benghazi? How’s that IRS investigation going? Fast and furious, anyone? All these squirrels are really distracting, which I suppose is the point, right Holder?

I R A Darth Aggie | July 17, 2013 at 9:13 am

And she’s an adjunct law professor at Florida A&M to boot.

Maybe someone could ask her how the Robert Champion case is progressing?

John Sullivan | July 17, 2013 at 10:40 am

Jasmine Rand is just a telegenic and well-spoken law school graduate. At least she has not been hired by a network as a “legal expert” yet. I heard Gloria Allred’s daughter, Lisa Bloom, a so-called expert, complaining about 27 pages of jury instructions on NBC yesterday. Such a comment merely confirmed that Bloom has never tried a case in her life. Although 27 pages tends towards the long side, it is far from surprising, given the serious issues of the case.

Is this social engineer a product of liberal schooling?
Is this the medium average intelligence of these social engineers?
If so, man are we in some deep doo doo.

Barnestormer | July 17, 2013 at 1:35 pm

“A federal hate crimes charge (assuming it applied) would have nothing to do with preemption.”–WAJ

Perhaps, but if not already done, a rigorous supremacy/pre-emption analysis would be prudent before standing behind such a categorical assertion given the following hypothetical situation: Justice initiates a hate crimes prosecution and Zimmerman lodges an immunity defense under Forida Statute Ch.776.032. Wouldn’t such a case produce a direct conflict of the sort the federal pre-emption tests would be required to resolve?

Piper Scott | July 17, 2013 at 3:50 pm

Is that law firm she’s with Parks and Crump — or Parks and Recreation?

[…] then made an appearance on Greta Susteren’s show and Greta proceeded to hand Rand her head. Bill Jacobson then blasted her assertions about social engineering and eviscerated her arguments about […]

[…] she then made an appearance on Greta Susteren’s show and Greta proceeded to hand Rand her head. Bill Jacobson then blasted her assertions about social engineering and eviscerated her arguments about […]