Those of us who have been following Andrew Branca’s excellent coverage of the Zimmerman trial here on LI weren’t at all surprised by the verdict. Indeed, we’d have been surprised by anything else; however, leftists are busy little bees, working their race-baiting denial-of-facts-and-law nonsense with a disconcerting fervor.
One interesting development has been the “new” definition of “profiling.” Jazz Shaw explains:
This has caught fire in a way I never expected. We’re done saying, George Zimmerman went after Trayvon Martin because he’s black. The new hotness coming at you from the media – old and new – 24/7, is that Zimmerman “profiled” Martin. And if you think about it, it’s fairly brilliant. The race card has been played so often and for so long that there’s barely any paint left on it. But the idea that anyone – not just law enforcement officers – can “profile” somebody has a fresh coat of paint and sounds like it could sweep in all sorts of disaffected groups. Plus, it has the added bonus of already being a word in common use, nearly always in a pejorative fashion. The judge didn’t allow the word “racial” to be put in front of it – another plus for those who would have Zimmerman’s head on a pike – but that didn’t matter. Everyone heard it in their minds.
The police use racial profiling to unfairly target minorities and now civilians can do it too.
Profile we much. Or something.
Does it matter that George Zimmerman isn’t a racist? That the FBI cannot find any evidence of racism in this Obama-voting, black kid-tutoring Democrat doesn’t matter. What matters here, to the race-baiting left, is that we find a new way to keep racism alive. We no longer have to limit our fear and concern to just the police “profiling” hoodie-wearing black delinquents, we need to ramp up the fear of all white (or “white Hispanic”–whatever that is) people.
That should do wonders for burying the fact that attacks on whites increased 18% from 2010 to 2011.
But that’s different. You know, somehow.
Laudable now? Killing, assaulting, maiming random, preferably unarmed white people (and “white Hispanics”) “for Trayvon.” Yes, really. Leftists look the other way when their base beliefs actually encourage the very behavior they claim to oppose. After all, randomly beating someone because he or she is white is totally different than randomly beating someone because he or she is black.
Or something.
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Comments
“Profiling” is not a crime — it’s not even a bad idea.
If someone tells you they never profile, tell them you are going to lock their child in a room with either a pit bull or a golden retriever. Their choice.
Or lock them in a room with a Trayvon wanna-be, or a golden retriever, their choice
These folks would find Black-on-Black crime to be racist
The new racism is that the color of the skin frames the perception of race despite the reality of race.
President Obama feels no pressure to put mixed race origins on his 2010 census form because he looks black. The reality that he is mixed race is deemed irrelevant. His perception is all that matters.
The hypocrisy here is startling. George Zimmerman looks white. So the reality that he is mixed race and claims to be mixed race is dishonest when he clearly looks white from a distance.
And this is what we need to start saying to those around us who continue the narrative that GZ was a racial profiling by calling to attention how GZ was racial profiled.
He looked white. He wasn’t.
“You are the racist. Stop your own profiling! You called an Hispanic a white man when clearly he isn’t. When are you going to apologize for that!.” These words should be flowing as freely from our lips as the dribble coming from President Obama.
We need to start calling him our racist president. Racist in chief.
He needs to own his failure to achieve MLK’s dream because he wants to hold on to the past and pretend it is 35 years ago when it isn’t.
These race card players have to be made to smell their own stink because they believe what comes out of there orifices doesn’t stink.
Zimmerman has always looked mixed race Hispanic to me. I suspect that if his parents had decided to spell it Jorge Zimmerman this story never would have made it beyond the local police blotter.
That is because this began as a fishing expedition by some race-baiters trying to gin up support among lo-info blacks for the 2012 election. They saw a name and some facts that suited their purposes on some police reports and fed it to a media that reacted like the trained seals they have become. After buying into the racial profiling narrative the media discovered a problem. Rather than drop the story after the images of Zimmerman turned out to be not that of the stereotyped Florida cracker they had fantasized about they created the term White Hispanic. After all, this is now Amerika and the media mantra has become When the narrative becomes fact, flog the narrative.
I’m with NC Mountain Girl. To me, Zimmerman clearly looks Hispanic. The man is brown, not white. I have pale olive skin and am ethnically ambiguous looking, some people might call me white, but others have called me a “white n-word” or a “mud person.” There has been a sickening undercurrent of ethnic insensitivity throughout this trial that continues to this day, all for the sake of perpetuating the false narrative that the MSM and the hatemongers so ferociously cling to.
I agree with you, but it doesn’t matter. Having been on The Daily Beast every day this week on various Martin/Zimmerman threads, the leftists already have this covered. They say that “Hispanic” is a culture, not a race; thus you can be a white Hispanic, a black Hispanic, etc. Implicit in their tone is the question, “are you an idiot?” They will not acknowledge that at the beginning of this whole debacle, they clearly were trying to imply in the press that he was a minority-hating white anglo-saxon.
The corruption of language. Sometimes it is necessary to make snap judgments about people based on limited and superficial information. This works to the disadvantage of young black men. It is one thing to observe that this is a source of frustration and inconvenience for them and it is something else to say that they are being victimized by a thought crime known as racial profiling. These men are not served by fostering feelings of anger and resentment against those who must make assumptions based on limited information. It helps to encourage them to send counter signals in their dress, their language and their behavior that contradict the stereotypes that harm them. Neither they nor the people who “profile” them are at fault here. The villains are the young black criminals themselves and the race baiters who encourage a sefl-destructive sense of victimization.
What a remarkable idea you have, cwillia1! Limit the problem by not dressing like a hoodlum, not talking like a hoodlum, and not attacking other people like a hoodlum.
All I can say is that “profiling” has some basis in fact.
One could also say that in order to end profiling for any given group, that group needs to eliminate the cause for such profiling.
Of course I don’t think that Tingles would agree with me…
Well, today’s Al Sharpton’s big day – 100 cities of protests (aka Use the Trayvon false narrative as an excuse to attack whites and ignore the REAL PROBLEMS in the black culture.)
Sharpton’s Own Race-based Lynchings
There are no expletives vile enough to describe Sharpton’s character.
Fancy suits, fancy clubs, fancy cigars, fancy women – but underneath, he is a vulgar, sleazy, lying, hating, racist, con man and criminal.
List of Protest Cities (101)
Sybrina will be in NYC and Tracy in Miami.
I have to throw “evil” into your list of descriptors. This vile race-baiter has blood on his hands. (No, he didn’t kill anyone – but his words incited others to act, and in two separate incidents innocent people died as a result.)
http://www.jeffjacoby.com/633/al-sharpton-the-democrats-david-duke
Sharpton is unrepentant, of course. I don’t know how anyone with a conscience could remain in the same room with this piece-of-excrement.
To the extent that “profiling” could be considered wrong, i.e. one makes a snap judgment based on initial impressions and then does not allow subsequent discoveries to inform that initial judgment, isn’t it the case that Obama and DOJ and much of the nation “profiled” George Zimmerman as a racist etc., refusing to let facts correct their initial judgments, which now appear devoid of merit? On the other hand, in Zimmerman’s case, his initial profiling of Martin was due to his behavior, not his color, and in fact subsequent events proved his initial suspicions to be correct (i.e. Martin assaulting Zimmerman, not to mention the discovery that although Martin had no criminal convictions, he had been discovered to have committed a burglary, which is why he was suspended from school in Miami and found himself in Sanford).
Quote jlronning:
“he had been discovered to have committed a burglary, which is why he was suspended from school”
That’s not true. Read here:
Trayvon Martin, the teenager whose shooting death has sparked a national uproar, was suspended from school last month for having a baggie that contained marijuana residue in his book bag, a family spokesman said Monday.
“There was no substance found. There was a baggie that school officials believe may have formerly contained marijuana. There was no arrest or citation from the police,” Ryan Julison said.
The Miami Herald reported that Martin was suspended two other times from school. The first time was for missing school or being late.
In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing “W.T.F.” on a hallway locker, according to a school report obtained by the Herald. A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”
Ben Crump, an attorney for Martin’s parents, told the Herald they had never heard about the bag of jewelry.
“And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” Crump told the Miami Herald. “They never heard this and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”
Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, suggested in comments at a news conference that the marijuana residue report was aimed at smearing her dead child.
“They killed my son and now they’re trying to kill his reputation,” she said.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/26/10872124-trayvon-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school?lite
Crump quotes have the same veracity quotient as Jeantel quotes.
You are chasing a skunk.
How a Miami School Crime Cover-Up Policy Led to Trayvon Martin’s Death
In other words, had the Miami school system followed the law, Martin would possibly be alive and in Miami today, though possibly not free.
Compare and contrast:
The more you learn and research Trayvon Martin, you find evidence of drugs, lawlessness, obscenity, crime and violence.
The more you learn about George Zimmerman, the more you find evidence of respect for law and order good will, concern for others, non-racist concern for minorities, underdogs and disadvantaged persons.
Uncle Samuel, you come across in your musings and declarations as a person that really hates blacks, period; and you are using blogs related to Treyvon Martin to preach your hate, no better or worse that Al Sharpton. There is no middle ground with you, not understanding, just determined hate. I mean in almost every one of your posts you directly use the word “Blacks” or you trash Treyvon Martin. Sad little man. Why don’t you tel us what the Blacks have done to you that caused you to be a racist.
BTW, In my post a spokesperson for the family admitted to Treyvon’s suspension and the reason. The other two instances were reported by the Miami Herald from other sources.
Profiling while driving?
Disagreement with Al Sharpton isn’t hate in itself.
I do however acknowledge that I HATE, ABHOR, DESPISE, DENOUNCE his criminal and devious actions, lies, greed racism and dishonesty.
and I HATE the scam that Crump/Julison, Obama/Holder and the Martin/Fultons are trying to foist on a decent man, and his family, on law-abiding citizens and a noble nation.
I am proud to HATE those things. My hatred has nothing whatsoever to do with race.
DriveBy I’m one who believes in diversity of opinion, even if it’s stupidly expressed, and mostly I ignore your comments, so many of them just plain dumb. But you cross the line when you intentionally post distorted information, as you did in the starting comment above.
You understated Trayvon’s school infractions and out and out misrepresented the Miami Herald’s description of it. He was suspended for repeated tardiness and truancy: an indelible sign he didn’t’ give a damn about rules or responsibilities. Next, you understated the graffiti incident, where a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” (btw, you think the school police investigator should be discharged for profiling him?) Splattered the WTF graffiti on the door was another indication of his recalcitrant nature, his disregard for authority and property. And yes, the marijuana bag they found on him during the follow-up investigation was empty — and guess why — because they found a marijuana pipe with it as well – or are you going to claim one had nothing to do with the other? And you must know in your heart the jewelry they found in Trayvon’s possession him was stolen — you can’t be so naive as to believe his story that a ‘friend’ gave it to him is true: no friend ever came to claim the jewelry at the police department after they confiscated it.
But aside from his school malfeasance, what’s most troubling to me — but not apparently to you and other fawning sycophants of this troubled dysfunctional 17 year old juvenile delinquent — were the photos of naked underage girls on his mobile phone. Let me repeat that: NAKED UNDERAGE GIRLS. Who took those photos? Under what circumstances? Were the girls cajoled, threatened,intimidated into posing?Did Trayvon photograph them? Did he pass those photos around? Were those girls schoolmates, at Krop Senior High, in Miami?
Do you have teenaged girl children? Or relatives who do? Or friends? Isn’t the fact that photos like that were on his phone cause you any concern at all? Or has your own sense of moral equilibrium vanished in the cross-currents of self-serving rationalizations of the kind offered by Obama, and the other George Zimmerman persecutors, who have left reason behind in favor of a biased narrative?
Reply to Jayjerome66:
Jay, I did not do anything that you said in all of that rambling. Go back and read my post again. 99 % of that post was copied and pasted from the link at he bottom of the post. It was information for the previous poster who misunderstood exactly why Trayvon was suspended.
Now, regarding you words below, Quoting you:
“But aside from his school malfeasance, what’s most troubling to me — but not apparently to you and other fawning sycophants of this troubled dysfunctional 17 year old juvenile delinquent — were the photos of naked underage girls on his mobile phone. Let me repeat that: NAKED UNDERAGE GIRLS. Who took those photos? Under what circumstances? Were the girls cajoled, threatened,intimidated into posing? Did Trayvon photograph them? Did he pass those photos around? Were those girls schoolmates, at Krop Senior High, in Miami?”
My reply: You my friend have a devious and twisted mind to pile all of those descriptives to a photo that you have never seen of had described to you. I have never seen the photo(s) and neither have you. I have no idea of exactly what was exposed and what was not. Trayvon was a minor with (apparently) a photo of a nude or seminude girl on his phone – this is 2013 and the use of technology is very different from my or your teenage years. If every boy in America with a photo of his girlfriend’s tits or ass on his phone were prosecuted today, all of the juvenile detention facilities would be overflowing!
In other words, DriveBy, you’re losing the exchange so you baselessly call someone racist.
I think you’re the “sad little man.”
Rubio: Jesse Jackson allegations of apartheid defaming Florida. Defends SYG law.
you are right, SUSPECTED of burglary … he seems so much nicer now … almost angelic with his gold grill and tats …
I made no comment about that either way. I just attempted to correct the misbelief of the previous poster with the facts by submitting a newspaper article.
And I will try to give you more information as well. This is what Trayvon looked like when he died:
http://i.imgur.com/nUYjt3V.jpg
No “grills.” The “tats” are not visible. He has two tattoos and they are not Gang Related in any way. They are related to his mother and his grandmother. Read more here:
“She then gave details of Martin’s tattoos, noting that her son was right-handed and had two tattoos. One was on his right upper shoulder and showed praying hands with his grandmother’s and great-grandmother’s names.” The other tattoo was on his left wrist. “He had my name there,” she said.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-mother-voice-20130705,0,7554872.story
In the photo he surely looks big enough to have beaten the hell out of George.
And why do you believe his mother’s description of the tats? She misrepresented the voice on the 911 audio as Trayvon’s. Why do you believe she’s telling the truth about the tattoos? Do you have any photos of them to back that claim? If so, let’s see them. If not, if you were an honest commentator, you would have alerted us that they were based only on speculation.
Reply to jayjerome66:
Again Jay, read my post! The information in the post came from the article that I posted as a link!
You want to believe that Trayvon had “Gangsta Tats” and I understand that, it is because you hate him, want to trash him, and you are a racist. That’s OK, you are not alone here!
Trayvon’s mother’s words that were quoted in the article came from the trial testimony. There are of course autopsy photos that confirm that she was not lying. I’m sorry to break the news to you Jay, but there are many other things that you can use against Trayvon to make others hate him with the same passion that you do! No go out and enjoy yourself, your hatred.
Once more DriveBy you baselessly claim someone is racist. How about pulling up some quotes? Oops. Don’t got any… No you just get a feeling because someone doesn’t like canonizing a likely thief who attacked and severely beat a man.
You’re losing badly. Why not just claim that they’re Nazis and they’re all just like Hitler and be done with it.
I profile all day.
When I come to a stop sign, I profile the area for other cars (and the police).
When I walk down a strange street, I profile the neighborhood to see if I’m going the right way.
When I go shopping, I profile the store to make sure it’s got the things I want to buy.
When I see people coming toward me on the street (having profiled the it and realizing I’m somewhere dangerous), I profile them using my past experience (previous encounters) and any information I may have (such as the FBI Criminal Statistics) and decide whether or not these people may be a threat to my person.
Yes, indeed. Human beings profile every minute of every day of their lives.
And a damn good thing they do. Otherwise we’d have become extinct eons ago.
So most murders are same race murderer/victim. But black on white is twice the rate of white on black, and apparently black on white is getting worse as Obama/Holder push their racist views into executive actions, e.g. excusing Black Panther thuggery.
Obama dipped into the stand your ground waters. “let’s have that debate”. But that debate has been had, and is why SYG laws exist, to legislatively overcome the “duty to retreat” precedence, that at some point judicially weakened self defense rights. (afaik) The God given right still exists above the law, but prosecution is more likely.
He botches the law (and facts), claiming that Trayvon only needed to feel threatened, and could use that as an excuse for murder. An indirect interpretation is “if you white people don’t accept your deserved ass whoopins, from righteously violent black men, then ‘we’ blacks will use that law to start shooting you instead of just beating you”. Thanks for suggesting that Barack.
Obama doesn’t dare mention the verdict was correct, that Zimmerman was beaten MMA style for 45 seconds before the shot. He gently alludes to the possibility that Trayvon was aggressive, but shows zero compassion for, or even admission of, Zimmerman’s self defense.
Perhaps the message should be … “don’t assault people, they might be concealed carrying, and besides that, assault is WRONG and illegal”.
Instead, Obama wants to use the dead child as he used the Newtown children, to weaken people’s right to self defense. But this time he gets the added benefit of playing the race card.
I thought Barry was a lawyer? Being followed by someone is not a mortal threat, thus the law does not provide for the use of deadly force against it. Further, Martin had already reached his father’s girlfriends house (where he was staying) and thus, was not in mortal danger.
Zimmerman, on the other hand, found himself straddled as his head was getting bashed in. That constitutes mortal danger and justifies the use of deadly force.
Why is this difficult for a lawyer to understand? State statutes are pretty similar. He has an entire team of sycophants who could have looked this up for him.
1. Would the verdict have been different if TM had been white – no
2. Would the verdict have been different if GZ had been black – no
3. Was there any evidence that GZ was racist – no
4. Was there any evidence that GZ actually profiled – no
5. Is there evidence that there is racism on the other side yes
6. Is there evidence that the other side will use any means yes
Interesting concept here. Is the phrase “creep ass cracka” profiling?
[Please spare me the pseudo-cross-reference to a gay stalker…besides, that would still be “profiling” right?]
Profiling is the ignorant man’s new pejorative word for “situational awareness” … something another commenter pointed out as necessary for survival, no matter what color your skin might be.
There are very few African-Americans who have not had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had the chance to get off. That happens often,” he [Obama] said.
That my friend is profiling
No it isn’t. It’s RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION. Or something… uh… right…?
I mean you’re the racist. Not Lucifer… uh, I mean the light-bringer. http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/morford/article/Is-Obama-an-enlightened-being-Spiritual-wise-2544395.php
When we lived in Baltimore, we adopted a dog that had been tortured by young black boys. I believe they had taped razor blades to a Frisbee and thrown it at the dog. Consequently, the dog barked at all young black boys, some of whom said that the dog was “prejudice”. Now, we are not dogs. Despite the fact that the only people who have robbed, attempted to rob, mugged or assaulted me or my wife were black, we have the liberty- which dogs do not- of remaining open to the individuality of everyone we meet. But the dog in us never entirely goes away, nor should it. We are free, despite history, but we are not free of history. The dog has its place, but the dog shouldn’t have the last word; otherwise, we’re the prisoners of our personal and collective pasts. In that sense, ‘profiling’ and ‘prejudice’ are bad things. Otherwise, they’re inevitable, natural and desirable. Suggesting that we can be rid of them is pure demagogic Jacobinism.
Damn shtraight I profile. I am female. I have finely tuned female security hackles. If I hear footfalls behind me in a parking garage, you’ll see my car keys go between my fingers, ready to punch into your eyeballs. I haven’t even looked at you and it doesn’t matter what race you are. The attackers who have done violence against me have been white. And, my finely tuned female security hackles are not a bug, but a feature of being female. Every woman has them once she’s beyond the unicorns and rainbows idea of the world from childhood.
Profiling is not wrong, and racial profiling is only something that law enforcement can do (as defined by the FBI and the DOJ–the Color of Law statutes).
When you watch the 7-11 store videos (not stills), the store clerk is following and watching TM. The hood up may have made the clerk nervous because robbers do that to avoid getting an identifiable pic on the security cameras.
Seems we better hurry up and eliminate all aspects of pattern recognition in our society, beginning with our education system. Heck, that would include pre-k all the way through to those gawky geeks studying stuff like fractals & numbers. And while we’re at it, we must move to eliminate all sorts of “testing & profiling” in our medical care. Family history, genetic testing, race, gender….. It’s all way too expensive anyway and what if 1 out 100,000 are mistakenly mis-identified for a life saving procedure? Well, that’s criminal! There must be justice here, Now! End it all. All pattern recognizers are evil for seeing patterns where none exist! They merely halluncinate and put all of us at risk. Next time we take our cars in for a repair, we must require them to check it from front to back, piece by piece. It would be insensitive and irrational to check the make, model, year for any profile/pattern/trend info. We must end this madness! After all, pattern recognition is criminal!!!! I want justice!!!
An example of my experience of the current logic being spewed…
The federal government is the most race obsessed of all. They insist on those race category questionnaires in education, employment, and census. I think we should all answer Other: [Human] or Prefer Not To Respond. Deny them their statistics. Outright lie. We are all suddenly Asian. Eff those race obsessed federales.
Since the 2010 census when the categories expanded 2 or 3 fold, I have uniformly checked “Other” and entered “Homo Erectus.”
On my next form I might just check “Other” and enter “Creepy Ass Cracka” … what you think? 🙂
Better not – you might have to register as a sex offender.
Don’t be silly, Freform! That’s all the NSA does is pattern recognition. It’s okay for the government to profile you, it’s not okay for citizens to use basic judgement. Submit to the state.
Behavior, not race. What did Zimmerman report to the NEN dispatcher? “Walking around in the rain, acting like he’s drunk or high on drugs, looking into houses.” If you act like a duck, it’s not reasonable to blame people for thinking, at least until they see more of you, that you’re a duck. Why did Zimmerman shoot Martin? Behavior, not race. If you walk up to someone and say, “Why are you following me?” and he says, “What are you doing here? I called the cops.” Then you say, “Okay, we’ll wait here for them.” If instead you walk up to someone, sucker-punch them – that’s what playing the “knock out game” is – then proceed to beat them severely in the face and head you will get a different reaction. No matter what color you are. Trayvon was filled with the racist bull that is taught to young blacks all across the country: white people want to kill you; cops want to beat you down and put you in prison for nothing. Behavior, not race.
While this discussion is going on, there are a number of news reports of “bash mobs” terrorizing any number of cities in the country. The stories do not usually mention the race of the bashers, but the videos are clear enough. And we’re not supposed to “profile”?
Are you referring to this article from Drudge:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-bash-mobs-southern-california-20130719,0,1569435.story
If so, please read the entire article and watch the video. The article is from yesterday morning, and the video was broadcast at approx. 4:35AM. The Bash Mob they were afraid of yesterday afternoon never happened. The ones reported in both the video and the article are previous events; one from April in Chicago, not Longbeach.
I am glad that we are not seeing a repeat of the violence that happened after the Reginald Denny beating. No need to Fear Monger on a LI blog with “Fear Mongering” in the title!
Still misrepresenting through biased selections. Shame shame shame.
Other mob action noted at the link DID happen: at the Wal-Mart on Crenshaw Blvd; on Hollywood Blvd, where they assaulted people on the street, stealing phones, assaulting pedestrians, vandalizing stores; in Victorville where 17 a-holes tried to force their way into the Victor Valley Mall.
Guess what — almost every one of those arrested or filmed doing the rioting — were black. You know, Trayvon wanna-bes.
I did not misrepresent anything, but you are!
There was no incident YESTERDAY, you are referring to an older incident, just as I said in my original post.
Stupidity does go hand in hand with racism… SMH
Personally my read on this is that this is a complete admission that the leftists cannot do anything to keep young black thugs from assaulting or robbing people. And since assaulting or robbing, or rather ‘trying’ to at least, is a dicey and potentially lethal proposition when people routinely carry firearms, then the only way to keep those young black thugs alive is to make it much more difficult for people to defend themselves.
If you get rid of Stand Your Ground then you have a requirement to retreat. What this means in a home invasion as an example would be that you’d have to quickly pack up your family and run from the house. In the example home invasion as described in the Zimmerman trial the young mother could potentially have been found criminally at fault for having hidden herself in a room rather than having run from the house with her children. And had one of the perps died because of a pair of scissors to the heart or a major artery then we would be treated to a spectacle of young mother being prosecuted for having defended her children.
If SYG is eliminated then the duty to retreat is paramount. Frankly I’m not that enamored of thugs regardless of skin color so I’d prefer there was the implicit threat of an armed homeowner. That helps reduce overall the number of home invasions here in the USA while in countries with no SYG and weak self defense laws the duty to retreat makes life so much easier for thugs that home invasions are the preferred method of robbery since nothing is locked up.
Memomachine, that’s not quite how either SYG or duty to retreat (DTR) laws work. In practice, SYG and DTR are very similar.
In states the impose a DTR, they do so only if the defender is not in his property (home, car or business). So, to trigger DTR, one must be away from his property.
Self-defense even in DTR states can only be invoked if the defender is there lawfully and if he is engaged in a lawful activity (thus, one cannot claim self defense if one has come to rob a house and the owner defends his property).
Most states that impose a DTR (which is a minority of state, incidentally; FL is in the majority by not imposing DTR) give broad exceptions. Some states that impose DTR do so only if the attacker has not presented a deadly weapon. Other states (CT, for example) impose the DTR only if the defender believes taking the path of retreat would ensure his safety. Since turning your back on an attacker is always very dangerous, in practice, DTR and SYG works pretty much the same way. Self-defense laws in all states overwhelmingly favour the defender.
This means, of course, that the entire conversation is ridiculous, particularly since in the case that started the hand-wringing over SYG, there was no available path of retreat for the defender. Zimmerman was straddled and his head was hitting the concrete. The action Zimmerman took would have been perfectly legal in a DTR state.
This was my comment on another blog I frequent regarding SYG laws.
I think most of us would acknowledge the wisdom of retreat when it’s reasonable to do so, and if everyone had a similar definition of reasonable, then SYG laws would not be necessary. But when overzealous prosecutors, hungry for reelection, criminalize the inability to retreat (not the unwillingness, the inability), then SYG laws become necessary to protect us from that overzealous prosecution.
The home invasion stuff comes under Castle Doctrine rather than Stand Your Ground.
“Relevant science:
Heather MacDonald: The Post-Zimmerman Poison Pill.
The idea that the criminal-justice system discriminates against blacks — and that this bias explains blacks’ disproportionate presence in custody — is a staple of civil-rights activism and of the academic Left. Every effort to prove it empirically, however, has come up short. A 1994 Justice Department survey of felony cases from the country’s 75 largest urban areas discovered that blacks actually had a lower chance of prosecution following a felony than whites did and that they were less likely to be found guilty at trial. Alfred Blumstein has found that blacks are underrepresented in prison for homicide compared with their arrest rates. A meta-analysis of charging and sentencing studies showed that “large racial differences in criminal offending,” not racism, explained why more blacks were in prison proportionately than whites and for longer terms, according to criminologists Robert Sampson and Janet Lauritsen.”
Invoking racism, invoking “profiling” to replace “racism,” global warming, environmental concerns, etc. all have one thing in common: money/power/notoriety is transferred to the one who cries wolf the loudest. See Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, Al Gore and the rest of the Hollywood characters for further details.
When we lived in New York City, a block from 125th Street, my wife was assaulted and robbed several times by young black men. Our neighborhood was mostly composed of students, Hispanics and old Jews. After these incidents, she decided it was unsafe to get into the elevator with another young black man, and started to take the stairs. He pulled a knife and went after her. She escaped by kicking him in the groin, an act that gives her pleasure to this day. Some time after this, she was already in the elevator when a very large young black man came into it. She said or did nothing, but must have physically expressed fear by looking scared and backing into a corner. She remembers the pain that this caused the man. It turns out that he was a student—a piccolo player at Juilliard! Was injustice done to him? Of course. It was a pale reflection (pardon the pun) of the injustice that had been done to her. Her earlier decision not to get into the elevator with the man who pulled a knife may have saved her life. The President of the United States is not going to change that “profiling.” It was the piccolo player, my wife, and thousands like them who absorb the pain and move on, remaining as open as they can be, who do more for this country than an elevator full of Sharptons, Obamas and Holders ever will.
Profiling where I live, the west Detroit outskirts, neighborhood full of young children.
Assume black folks are present, because they are…and assume it is summer because it is.
Here’s a short list of some potential types of black strangers [those that do NOT live here, to be blunt … because others do live here] we see on our streets here:
1. Jehovah’s Witness solicitors, usually in groups of 2 or more, usually dressed in suits.
2. Group of 3 or 4 apparent teenagers in shorts and tank tops, on the sidewalk, carrying a basket ball, heading for the park at the end of my street, where there are courts.
3. Group of 3 or 4 teenagers, diddy bopping down the middle of the street, not on the side walk, wearing baggy pants half off their butts, wearing hooded sweatshirts in today’s 90+ degree heat.
4. One or two bicylists wobbling down the street very slowly with their heads on 180 degree swivels, checking driveways, not front doors [for addresses].
5. A guy with a pick up, with signage on the side saying “Landscaping”, going door to door soliciting yard work.
Which groups do you think we neighbors “profile” and watch? In fact frequently follow them, and if they persistently circle back and re-pass through, we likely will make sure they know they’re being followed?
Note: If it happens to be me doing the following, using my truck, or following on foot more than a block or two, I’ll probably have one of my dogs with me…they are always better judges of character than I am.
If you choose groups 1,2, or 5…your judgment is poor and you don’t live in the city. If you choose groups 3 and 4, you have decent situational awareness. The “tells” aren’t the routes or the general behavior, such as “diddy bopping” or whatever…kids are kids. No the “tells” are the clothing, like a hooded sweatshirt on a 90+ degree July day, or the odd behavior, like riding a bike down the street weaving in to ramps of driveways with your head on swivel.
Yeah, if you fit #3 or #4, we’re watching you, just like you’d be watching you if back on your own home block.
If you fit #1, we might ask you to sit down and have some coffee or tea. If you fit #2, we’ll likely smile and say “Hi” if we make eye contact. If #5, we might hire you if our grass needs work.
The FBI’s Uniform Crime Report is your friend. Bookmark it. We’ll need it when Democrats and whoever their newest Republican BFF is take another vote to restrict gun liberty, probably this fall.
The link below takes you directly to Table 6 titled Expanded Homicide Data which has been sorted by Race and Sex of Victim of Murder relative to the Race and Sex of the Offender.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6
In 2011, the FBI classified 2648 victims of murder as “black”. The FBI says 193 of those black murders were committed by people the FBI classified as “white”.
In a country of 310 million people, 193 black people were murdered by a white person. That’s 0.00006%.
Now go to the Hate Crime statistics. A grand total of 1 black murder was classified as a racial hate crime in 2011.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/tables/table-4
I assume the “real” number is more than one but the FBI did not have the evidence to classify the motivation for the murder as a racial hate crime. But it’s equally absurd to believe that all 193 murders were race based hate crimes. The real number is somewhere between 1 and 193.
For perspective, 450 people die each year from falling out of bed.
http://www.oddee.com/item_98002.aspx
Unfortunately the FBI is part of the Justice Dept, which means Holder. The chances that this administration will eventually try to game these numbers I’d put at something like 100%.
Fortunately, in the years that I’ve been (intermittently) following the FBI stats, I haven’t detected any obvious shenanigans. So far.
If the big-time race hustlers were somehow silenced, racial conflicts would evaporate in short order. Observe any mixed race setting where the agitators can’t get a foothold. Problems are few.
Unfortunately, the race hustlers are now running the US government.
And for that reason, it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
any community that glorifies and admires violence themed rap performers can’t complain when society starts assuming members of that community are violent …
True liberals do not condone violence. I have no idea what these folks are who claim they are “progressives” but they sure as hell aren’t liberal. My definition for them would be ethically bankrupt and hateful fools.
Here is the missing profile:
Teenagers are stupid and full of themselves; it’s a wonder that as many make it too adulthood as do.. They make foolish choices, get in over their heads, think they are immune to the laws of physics and nature, are dangerously naive and easily egged on by their peers into dangerous, antisocial and self destructive behaviors, or unhealthy, or risky or lewd activities whether it is wrestling in the bed of a pickup truck while drag racing, standing up on a roller coaster, sexting, taking unknown drugs from an unknown source, or like Big Jim Walker, that pool shooting son of a gun, messing with someone strange to him…………….. Notice how this hasn’t been factored into the scenario.
I don’t under stand your point. Seriously. I am 70 years old. If some teenager takes a swing at my head or face I am going to stop him by any means necessary. Acting nuts is one thing and assaulting people is another. That latter has to end badly for one side or the other. I prefer it not be me, so no I am not understanding you at all. Just what is your point?
Sorry, I guess I thought it was kind of an obvious scenario that TM was egged on to assault GZ. Unfortunately that is not as satisfying as blaming someone else, so it is a hard reality for parents to accept.
“Egging on” by anyone is not a defense for assault. Would you call “egging on” an excuse for the murder of Darryl Green in Chicago…he was not shot, he was beaten to death. Hello?
Said another way…was Darryl Green’s death due to kids just being stupid silly and to be expected now and then?
There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. — Booker T. Washington, “My Larger Education, Being Chapters from My Experience“, Ch. V: The Intellectuals and the Boston Mob (pg. 118 )
The central point that all this reinforces is the critical importance of our natural Right to Keep and Bear Arms. As a minority of left wing blacks and whites resort to violence “for Trayvon”, and politicized police departments stand down, our liberty and security increasingly depend on the strength of the Second Amendment.
Ponder this, and if you have not yet done so, join one of the several groups defending our 2nd Amendment rights.
It is simple not possible to not profile. Profiling is a part of us as natural as breathing and it is not illegal. What is worrisome is that Eric Holder gets people to equate profiling with racial animus. If he manages to do that, then every event in the world will become a racially motivated event. At this point, the DOJ can convict any person they choose at any time and we will truly be entering into a tyranny. I just hope that, should this attempt to equate profiling with racism be attempted, people are smart enough to realize the scam that is being perpetrated upon them and stop this in its tracks.
Interesting Nobama didn’t relate to Marley Lion killer as a son, or himself 15 years ago? where is the civil rights investigation into the group of 4 black men who profiled Marley as a helpless victim and killed him just in racial hate and spite? Watch the surveillance video and see he shots him and runs, no need to stick around and bother to get a wallet.
http://www.ibtimes.com/marley-lion-shooting-trayvon-martin-story-unarmed-teen-killed-video-draws-comparisons-internet
[Begin Sarcasm]
Thanks to Nobama, after Sandy Hook I purchased several high capacity guns, and now thanks to Nobama I carry everyday.
I didn’t use to but as a white-Hispanic I am now at additional risk of being profiled for a fun beating by a pack of coward punks.
Thanks to Nobama I fear for my safety and will resume my martial arts training, (did I say that out loud?)
Thanks to Nobama I profile even more, and have over-informed myself in politics and self-defense laws well beyond what I used to know up until last year.
[End Sarcasm]
I just hope that thanks to Nobama Zimmerman becomes a rich man. Until that day, I will continue to donate to his fund.
Thanks!!!
How come this Self defense case is not in the headlines? Don’t see anything about this 17 year old Christopher Cervini being murdered! Could it be that it doesn’t fit the real racist agenda? http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/07/tim-mcnabb/black-man-shoots-white-teen-jury-says-self-defense-and-nobody-cares/
Because it’s four years old.
I’m seriously wondering when one of these violent protestors is going to cross paths with another armed citizen and this whole thing starts over again. It almost seems to me like the hustlers are pushing this and pushing this until another confrontation happens. That will blow the lid odd this and all hell will break loose, no thanks to our President.
The President’s remarks about being profiled are so narrow. Does he not realize that most people have been profiled for one reason or another at some time in their lives? Any empathy I ever felt for black people for the legacy of slavery has dwindled. The Civil War was 150 years ago. My children are not learning good things from this, whereas prior they were truly colorblind and clueless about race issues. I tried telling my son what a “protest” is, and could barely explain it because it seemed so silly to him.
Not odd, off.
the race-hustlers, racist, bigots, political failures, and most importantly pravada are responsible for the trial, the dissension, deaths, personal injuries, property damage, and the setback of racial improvements.
I can call them all these names because it’s the truth.
pravada had to project Zimmerman as something he wasn’t, that was accomplished with one word, WHITE.
they had to get Zimmerman associated with WHITE, to procede with their profiling, and racially persecuting him.
i’ll play o’bama’s game, if Zimmerman would’ve been Hispanic, it would’ve never went to trial.
I am going to venture a guess that President Obama may be slipping into a psychotic state of mind. At the beginning of the GZ trial Mr. Obama said that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin. Now, the other day he said that he could have been Trayvon Martin. Mr. Obama is gravitating towards assuming Trayvon’s persona. I think that by next weekend the President will announce that “…I am Trayvon Martin.” If he does, run for the hills because it will mean Obama is psychotic and no white or brown will be safe.
How many innocent law abiding citizens have been victims of Stand Your Ground laws?
Can we compare that number to how many have been victims of Snitches Get Stitches?
Which is more dangerous to our youth, SYG or SGS?
How come the President is not doing something about SGS?
Is he really concerned about the safety of our young, or there’s another motive?
(Last question is rhetorical. We all know the answer.)
George Zimmerman is a private citizen. Even if you believe that profiling exists, he is not a police officer or government official. He is under no obligation to conform to some legalistic mumbo jumbo that is designed to inhibit law enforcement. If he, or anyone else observes something or someone that they deem to be suspicious, they are free to observe them and report what they see to the authorities.
now civilians can do it too
Deer MFM,
We’ve been doing this since the Stone Age, and probably before.
“I don’t recognize you, know you, and you’re not a member of my tribe, therefore you may be an enemy and I need to treat you as such until proven otherwise”.
Human nature in a nutshell. And bless you, Charles Barkley, for stating that African-Americans can be raaaaaaacist! too.
The whole “people lock their doors when I walk by” because I’m black is stupid.
I’m a white guy about 6’3” and sometimes I look rather imposing. I can’t help the fact that I look rather serious most of the time, it’s just the way I look. I sometimes hear car doors lock when I walk by someone in a parking lot; sometimes I get into an elevator with a woman and I can tell she’s apprehensive of me and uncomfortable. I’m not terrifying looking either– I’ve had random women approach me out of the blue to tell me they think I’m handsome, which is nice– though Ted Bundy was said to be handsome too. But I just can’t help looking intense.
Yes, I hate it when I hear a car door lock, or get into an elevator with a woman who looks scared– it makes me feel bad– but I understand it and I move on. I’m a MAN. It’s a part of being a man, regardless what color you are. There are times at night (especially if I haven’t shaved and my hair’s a mess) I see a woman walking in my direction on the sidewalk and I’ll casually cross over to the other side of the street and continue walking–just so I don’t seem like a reason for her to get her blood pressure up. It sucks, but if it weren’t for the bad intent of so many other men out there, women wouldn’t have a reason to keep their guard up. But this is the real world, so I work to make myself as non-imposing as I can.
The thing that gets me is that because everything is so PC nowadays, they can’t show criminals in TV crime dramas/home security ads in a way that accurately reflects crime statistics, so they resort to using intense looking white guys who look like ME! Meanwhile all the good guys are always people who don’t look like me.
About profiling and stupidity… once when I was younger I went into a pharmacy to buy Halloween candy because my girlfriend was going to bring her niece and nephew trick-or-treating. There was an older lady working there and she watched me like a hawk. It really made me uncomfortable and I assumed that it was something to do with my appearance and possibly my ethnicity. As I approached the counter to pay, she had been talking to some other customers about “thieves” and then she got real quiet– as if she had been talking about me. So I asked her if she was referring to me and she said “no” and shrugged it off.
I left and went home and then phone the pharmacy and complained to the store manager about how (I perceived that) I had been treated. I got nowhere. So later at night, I was still fuming about it. One of my buddies egged me on (literally) to take a carton of eggs and pelt the pharmacy windows at night and leave a mess. And we did. It was stupid and I totally overreacted.
The truly embarrassing part about the story was when I was at a party a few years ago– and I was telling this story. People were laughing– and then one of my friends got kind of quiet and said, “that was YOU who threw those eggs? I never knew that. I was working at (X pharmacy) part time and I had to come in on my day off to clean that f*cking mess off the windows. It took forever Thanks!”. It was like a bad episode of “Curb Your Enthusiasm”. I was really ashamed and it taught me a valuable lesson about trying to get revenge– it never really hurts the people you intended it for…
But racism is alive. It is just not where everyone is looking.
The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness
Drug Crazy: How We Got into This Mess and How We Can Get Out
Drug Warriors and Their Prey: From Police Power to Police State
Oh goodie, three links to three books on Amazon, one with an introduction by Cornel West.
Thank you so much! You have proven rampant White racism in contemporary America against all logic and statistics.
Take a bow!
http://thenewstalkers.com/forum/topics/george-zimmerman-is-a-no-good-jew?page=4&commentId=6450411%3AComment%3A556546&x=1#6450411Comment556546
Profile much?