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Lasciviousness in the defense of liberty is a vice

Lasciviousness in the defense of liberty is a vice

I’m not on the “Howard Snowden is a Hero” boat.

I’m may get on board the “Edward Snowden is no hero” boat.

As this plays out, it’s not clear that Snowden has added a lot to what we already knew, as Mandy pointed out this morning, but it does cause us to focus our attention on the potential for abuse particularly in light of the IRS targeting.

I’m very suspicious of Snowden’s motives and modus operandi in conveniently dropping the bombshells at a critical time to ease Chinese cyber-espionage diplomatic problems, and then conveniently setting himself up cynically in Hong Kong, under the watchful eyes and possibly protection of Chinese intelligence services.

So I’m not accepting that Snowden is as pure as he would have us believe. But I’ll wait and see before I jump on a boat.

But, then there’s this, it can happen here:

So tell me about your medical file, Mr. and Mrs. Tea Party


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From my reading of Snowden, I think he was trying to foretell a possible ugly future and needed some “street cred” to get our attention.
I don’t think of him as a “hero” but even villains often have a point to be listened to.
His comment in the video interview about a future President having access to a “turnkey tyranny” is not to be dismissed lightly.

Bottom line is this: If you trust the government you are a fool.

Wherever humans participate in any activity that activity will be subject to abuses regardless of safeguards. That’s just human nature and in the business of intelligence gathering, it’s part of the price to be paid for a robust information gathering program.

However, this administration has shown a significant propensity to use any information for political purposes and as such, all the safeguards in place need to be revisited to ensure to the maximum degree possible the effectiveness of these safeguards.

Face it… Nearly everyone has heard of Carnivore which now is long obsolete, yes? The only way that we can stay ahead of the curve is to continuously update the technology available to our intelligence gathering agencies.

Personally, I worry a whole lot more about what the anointed one may have in mind rather than what the professionals at NSA and CIA might be doing…

2nd Ammendment Mother | June 10, 2013 at 4:45 pm

IMHO, there’s just no way that something this large won’t be abused. With all due respect to our host, envision what an unscrupulous prosecutor, divorce or tort attorney with an “inside” connection to these databases could do with such a vast repository. How long until the use of all this data in routine background checks becomes common place? The Obama campaign used an extraordinarily detailed and personalized data mining operation to influence low information voters.

“SALT LAKE CITY — FOX 13 News has learned authorities are investigating a data breach of personal information at the Utah Department of Motor Vehicles.

Investigators are accusing a former employee at the DMV of taking people’s information and passing it to others, who would then go out and commit crimes. But state officials acknowledge they may have no way of knowing how widespread the problem is.
“This individual shared with us some information that, in all honesty, we weren’t even expecting to get,” Ellis told FOX 13.

A search warrant recently unsealed and obtained by FOX 13 News states that after being given her Miranda rights, the woman “admitted to using her computer access, as an employee of the Utah State Division of Motor Vehicles to illegally acquire personal information about private citizens.”

“She admitted to then disseminating that information to specific individuals for the sole purpose and with the understanding the information would be used to commit crimes against the unsuspecting private citizen,” a fire investigator wrote in an affidavit filed with the warrant.

“I believe she stated she’s been doing it for 14 years,” Ellis said.

The Utah State Tax Commission, which oversees the DMV, said the information that was allegedly accessed includes names, addresses and the make, model and vehicle identification number. But officials with the agency acknowledged it is hard to know how widespread the data breach is.”

and this was just one instance in one DMV.

Prism was never about terrorism…it was about getting Obama reelected. If you look at the leaked graph it all leads up to the 2012 election where all these techs came on board with a secret mass tech effort called nawhal to collect data on voters and swing the election. That combined with IRS,EPA,FBI,DOJ intimidation of Conservatives was all planned to reelect Obama with help from these tech giants in a “Top Secret” program.

    BannedbytheGuardian in reply to sass207. | June 10, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    Yes “. North Carolina went from 40-60 gay union referendum to 49-51 Obama in a few months. Yet the state is in a definite R turn .

    They almost won it ,

Lasciviousness in the defense of vice is a libertine. 😉


Snowden doesn’t see himself as a hero, nor is he asking you to do so either. He realizes what he has done.

I and my partner had a limited exposure to this part of police work. I have told people “You have NO idea what we know about you.” and that was with just my small local exposure.

So, when Snowden came forward I wasn’t surprised, but I am shocked about the reaction of many. I think Tim Carney at the Washington Examiner gets it. Read his article, I did a post on it. He reminds all of us that the government decides who is a criminal and who isn’t.

However, even HE misses the true danger of the NSA intrusion.

1. We somehow have gotten used to the idea that the government has a right to our papers, if those papers are electronic. That is wrong and a typical example of how courts (and by courts I mean lawyers in robes) have not been able to adjust to the new world. It may also explain why FISA courts fell down on their jobs. If I make an contract agreement with a cell company that is between me and the company and not anyone else to read unless there is probable cause. It really is that simple.

2. This is a Constitutional issue. I wish I could take credit for this thought, but my MENSA bright ex-partner brought this up. Have we not seen the Obama people target tea party member’s ability to assemble and organize? Isn’t that a Constitutional violation?

Now let’s expand that to the NSA sweep. If they target you (and DHS has already telegraphed who they think are potential terrorists- the exact definition of who the NSA is looking at) and you go to church or Synagogue, the NSA can sweep the phones around you and see who you are worshiping with. Further, if you decide to assemble for a political purpose they can sweep around you and see who you are meeting, even if the meeting is at your kitchen table and all your curtains are drawn.

Think about that chilling effect the next time you walk into your service with your smartphone on your hip and see all of the others with theirs around you. Or when you have lunch with your friend to talk about politics and life.

    Sanddog in reply to archer52. | June 10, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    It’s absolutely a constitutional issue. Does the government have the right to unilaterally decide they will no longer protect our 4th amendment rights in the name of “safety”? How insane is that?

    The prevailing argument seems to be… it’s okay to data mine every American citizen as long as you just store the records and don’t look at them without a court order. Would it be okay to rob a store as long as you didn’t spend the money?

Henry Hawkins | June 10, 2013 at 5:23 pm

Snowden is an irrelevant messenger. The issues are the length and breadth of the NSA PRISM datamining of American citizens, whether other such operations exist, and have they or could they be used against Americans along, saaaay, political lines.

Whatever Snowden is – crook, spook, patriot, traitor, hero – is small potatoes compared to the existence of NSA/PRISM, its potential for abuse on a scale never seen before, and how Americans feel about it.

I think a large part of the problem in convincing citizens that their freedoms and liberties are sacrosanct is that the public’s fear of death has increased. Part of this fear is due to state secularism and communitarianism, which afrights its citizens with the risks of injury and death, and promotes the notion of “safety.” The other part is the increasing irreligiousity and narcissism of people, and concomitant reluctance to trade life and limb for principles. We’ve become a nation of cowards – and countering that, I believe, is part of the approach needed to get people thinking less about their mortality and more about how properly exercising their liberties and freedoms are the key to achieve good things in their lives for themselves, their family and their community.

    Uncle Samuel in reply to Uncle Samuel. | June 10, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    A sample:
    David Burge @iowahawkblog

    “your privacy is important to me,” said the guy who’s president only because of the release of 2 different sealed divorced proceedings.

BannedbytheGuardian | June 10, 2013 at 8:49 pm

As an observer – there is a big split on the right blogs over Snowden . For example Bolten came out & said Snowden is a traitor & he is being disparaged & worse.

I gotta think the guy knows his stuff even if I don’t know everything he thinks or why.

Something tells me this is a dangerous time for those in the conservative camp as much as those in the liberal camp. Libertarianism is a fine line to walk.

BannedbytheGuardian | June 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm

Where does it go from here? This is where I can see Bolton I coming from . No matter what a country is your country . None is perfect.

Snowden aside – who has the PRISM methodology & data ? Surely not The Guardian.

Does Edward Snowden = Benedicte Arnold or are the very British names just a co incidence & fit for a good historical or a trad Brit spy novel.

I would like to know more about this Snowden – the life facts as outlined right up to the 200 thou are strange. I will take my Aspergers possibility & the GED back. I can’t fit the army profile with this .

BannedbytheGuardian | June 10, 2013 at 11:31 pm

Go over to the Faily Mail . They have the scoop on “the girlfriend”.

As I suggested sheis a mid – lower high class escort. Oh yeah acrobatic troupe appearances hanging off a tree gets enough $$$$$ to live in Hawaii. The other outfit The Waikiki acrobatic troupe has 20 -30 members – not likely to even bag a decent community arts fund share. Most look amateur.

Stripper pole shots .
Sexy Geek photoshoots .

Interesting that both Snowden & Mills have parents who are only 19 ( mothers ) & 20 -22 years older. That is certainly unusual for PA & MD white middle class.

[…] personnel would trade clips of eavesdropped phone sex between US soldiers abroad and wives in […]

[…] JACOBSON: Lasciviousness In The Defense of Liberty Is A Vice. “As this plays out, it’s not clear that Snowden has added a lot to what we already knew, as […]

[…] So if you are on the Snow­den is a hero band­wagon right now, I sug­gest you sit back and read Stacy McCain’s entire Free Kate thread from first to last. Then fol­low Legal Insurrection’s exam­ple. […]

” it’s not clear that Snowden has added a lot to what we already knew”

No, but he got the media to trumpet the fact they’re doing it.