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The Penny Lobby

The Penny Lobby

Getting rid of the penny is like converting to the metric system: people argue for years that it is inevitable, but it never really comes to fruition. Instead it remains a staple of elementary civics discussions

I always wondered who would really lobby for the penny as it is today. While we don’t have to dispose of a single-cent coin, it would behoove us to make it a bit more cost effective. And who is really profiteering off of such an endeavor?

My answer came in a CNN Fortune article published today: Don’t Mess with the Penny Lobby

[the ACC is] “a consortium of 50 groups that are working to highlight the benefits the penny provides to the economy and consumers.” …  In few such accounts is it noted that the ACC is run by the main lobbyist representing the zinc industry, which supplies most of the metal used in pennies. The “report” was merely a short statement from the group citing various opinion polls, most of them completed from 12 to 20 years ago. The most recent was conducted in 2006 — by Coinstar (CSTR), a business that is built largely on the fact that Americans must periodically haul huge, penny-filled cider bottles to vending machines if they want to turn the coins into usable currency. (Coinstar  also owns Redbox, the movie-rental outfit). The link provided by the ACC to Coinstar’s survey is broken, and there is no information on the company’s site about the survey, which, according to the ACC, found that two-thirds of Americans want to keep the penny. That’s the number several media outlets cited in their accounts of the “new report.”

It costs 2.4 cents to make each penny. … “Picking up a penny from a sidewalk and putting it in your pocket pays less than the Federal minimum wage, if you take more than 4.9 seconds to do it,” writes New Yorker writer David Owen in his recent anti-penny column in the New York Times.

There you have it – there’s a market for everything, even pennies.

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Comments

It’s not as if it’s impossible to get rid of pennies; lots of countries have done so. All the mint needs to do is stop making them! It’s as simple as that. What could anyone do about it?

In Australia they got rid of 1c and 2c coins about 20 years ago, and nobody missed them. Prices are still quoted as $3.99 or whatever, but if you pay cash then the total bill, after adding up all your items, is rounded. Legally they can round to the nearest multiple of 5c, even if it’s higher, and when the change happened the government distributed charts to every shop giving the proper rounding for each amount depending on the last digit, but in practise nobody ever rounds up. Shops found it worth the goodwill to round down even if they lose 4c on a transaction. So everyone came to expect it although it’s not legally required. Payment by credit card or EFTPOS (debit card) is still to the exact cent.

They should also get rid of the $1 note, and people will be forced to use those coins. Again, what could people do if they don’t like it? Refuse to use them?

    BannedbytheGuardian in reply to Milhouse. | April 11, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    yes US currency is very bulky . & untidy. I put a $5 into a drink dispenser at a state park kiosk in Ny & received several $ coins as change. I think I looked at them for 5 minutes never before knowing they existed.

    I think you guys are traditionalists. I have to admit the $1 greenbacks brought back memories of youthful times travelling across the USA in a Kombie Van. When times were good.

    We regularly ditch currency & can therefore boast the absolute best designs & plastic note technology around. But yes Us money is quaint & kind of cute.

NC Mountain Girl | April 11, 2012 at 3:59 pm

Why do I suspect the 50 states would pass laws that for sales tax purposes merchants have to round up rather than to the nearest nickle and remit the excess to them?

…makes sense…

*snicker, snort, chortle*

…vonce ve stop to zinc about it…

Arguing about ending the penny to save taxpayer money is like stepping over a ten dollar bill to pick up a dime.

~its ignoring the big picture.

    Darkstar58 in reply to OcTEApi. | April 11, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    That is the Democrats argument at least.

    That is, every time we hear calls to end the known fraud and abuse in the system we are greeted with “that is not going to do much as it is small change compared to our greater problems and what we really need to do is raise taxes on rich people”

    meanwhile, absolutely everything stays exactly the way it is while people pick their political corners on the “big picture” changes that similarly never take place…

      OcTEApi in reply to Darkstar58. | April 11, 2012 at 5:38 pm

      reaally, going with bolstering democrats argument?

      my argument was stop the massive borrowing, spending and money printing that’s devaluing US currency

        Darkstar58 in reply to OcTEApi. | April 11, 2012 at 5:54 pm

        Nope, just going with reality

        Any time anyone ever mentions a way to save money, the first thing we hear is that it is unimportant because its a small amount of money. Generally its done more from the Left, but can be heard from the Right as well.

        And while you didnt actually have an argument in the post I replied to, you provided a completely non-related (and actually, contradictory) argument here to do what? Prove that we should get rid of Pennies in an effort to cut into the “Massive borrowing, spending and money printing”? I thought you were telling us saving money in such a way was pointless?

        None the less, even if we were to give you the benefit of the doubt, your argument here of “ignore saving money thru X because its small, you can save more money by doing Y instead” is in essence the same argument we always hear while X, Y and everything else between A and Z never actually get done – which is, you know, what I said in my first post an all…

          OcTEApi in reply to Darkstar58. | April 11, 2012 at 6:31 pm

          Its not just any “way to save money” you’re arguing to stop producing a certain currency that in my argument is being devalued by TRILLIONS of borrowing, spending and money printing.
          Which is the “big picture” that you need to have explained.

          -other than that all you’re giving is the added x, y, z moonbat rationalization.

          Darkstar58 in reply to Darkstar58. | April 11, 2012 at 7:13 pm

          you seem to be running around in circles here, looking for your straw-man

          Question – should we save money by stopping the production of Pennies?

          It seems a fairly simple, straight-forward question. But oddly, you say no. And you’re reasoning? It’s “like stepping over a ten dollar bill to pick up a dime”.

          You seriously don’t see your issue yet? (or do you just hate being called out as illogical?)

          That said, we can stop “borrowing, spending and money printing” (the thing you claim you want to do) a bit if we were to eliminate pennies. Yet that is where you really get even farther out there as you simultaneously say we shouldn’t think about stuff like that – that’s your arguments contradiction.

          Cole hard fact is, roughly 7 Billion pennies are made each year, at a cost of about 2.5 cents each. That’s more then a hundred million dollars literally just thrown away every single year.

          You might personally think eliminating such waste is pointless; which is fine I guess, to each their own. I don’t though, I personally feel the Government should look for savings everywhere they possibly can in a real effort to cut “borrowing, spending and money printing”…

          Now, the value of currency issues is a complete secondary issue which you didn’t bring up until after you were called out. Correct, devaluing the dollars value further would create a larger gap between the 2.5cent cost and 1cent vale of the penny going forward – but that is all hypothetical based off the assumption there is any way possible to stop deficits overnight anyway in a situation where you yourself dont even see saving the wasted penny costs as a way to cut some spending. In other words, its pipe-dream theory simultaneously contradicted by your own stance, and in this case you are using your pipe-dream to argue against saving real-time money.

          Instead, I choose to look at a real-time situation. Today, even if the value of the dollar stayed exactly as it is for the next 10 years, we will throw away more then 1 billion dollars over that time solely creating pennies (which doesn’t even include their housing and transportation cost; plus the added costs to businesses having to do the same) – that’s real hard money savings which can be achieved literately overnight to fight the real-time issue of spending, borrowing and printing without even having to delve into the hypotheticals you choose to chase your tail in

          OcTEApi in reply to Darkstar58. | April 12, 2012 at 8:42 am

          My reading and comprehension is fine, you’ve spent a copious amount of energy formulating (bloviating) to project my argument for me, fortunately for yourself this projection is to fit your own preconceived rebuttals.

          –that this penny thing is the most egregious form of wasteful spending of our time, and to object to said waste defeats my own argument of spending reductions.. that leads to borrowing and devaluation of US currency.
          (and hilariously, in your mind this also makes me a tax and spend liberal that’s destroying the country)

          ==let me just say its been fun, watching you flail about endless to project me (personally) as a necessary object of public derision, in an effort to support your position as “fairly simple, straight-forward” ie “removing pennies eliminates what is purely wasteful spending” wrt 100 mil per year waste

          While I would have been inclined to agree with if you had picked on say … the USPS where the US taxpayer has flushed about $25 billion down that hole since 2009 “~its ignoring the big picture.” -on spending
          … or you could have picked the Sacagawea dollar where 20% of all dollars are mandated by congress to be the odious coin and I had been inclined to agree “~its ignoring the big picture.” -housing and transportation costs.

          ==quit citing Wikipedia to bolster your failing arguments.. ie the 2.5 cents per coin more than their face value.
          March 30, 2012
          an estimated 1.8 cents each—to produce

          ==Also Darkstar58, quit taking up the Demoncrats position of attacking the mining industry (like that, flip your own tactic back on you in the form of ridicule) which I support. Right now there is a huge glut of Zink, countries that “state sponsor” mining industry are divesting interests in Zink mines ( hope they fail ).. whereas there is huge opportunity for market consolidation to the advantage of private mining industry “~its ignoring the big picture.” -on wealth creation and jobs.

          Moreover, President Abraham Lincoln (R) depicted on the US Penny is considered the greatest, most revered presidents in U.S. history. “~its ignoring the big picture.” -you’re a damned simpleton and a fool.

          -Lastly, obsessively argues endlessly to defend such stupidity when its questioned – but you just obviously are. And pitifully, you keep proving it with each post you provide…
          “~its ignoring the big picture.” that “I” operate on a whole different plane of knowledge, understanding and reasoning to be bothered with moonbats such as yourself.
          -be thankful I even took the time to even respond you your mindless meanderings.

          Darkstar58 in reply to Darkstar58. | April 12, 2012 at 2:32 pm

          Seriously, you just major have issues man…

          Paragraphs like this do absolutely nothing but highlight your ignorance to the conversation at hand and eternal search for that Straw-Man to argue against:

          “–that this penny thing is the most egregious form of wasteful spending of our time, and to object to said waste defeats my own argument of spending reductions.. that leads to borrowing and devaluation of US currency.
          (and hilariously, in your mind this also makes me a tax and spend liberal that’s destroying the country)”

          We are dealing with 3 extremely simple facts you seem to want to do everything possible to ignore:

          1) Producing the Penny is wasting money
          2) You say we need to stop “borrowing, spending and money printing”
          3) You also say “Arguing about ending the penny to save taxpayer money is like stepping over a ten dollar bill to pick up a dime.”

          That is the only issue I have ever talked about – your blatant contradiction, and in turn, straw-manning in your pitiful attempt to change the conversation to save face or whatever it is you think you’re doing.

          Every word of every post you have provided since my first post has done nothing more then try to avoid those 3 facts. Why? We all know that answer…

          And as far as painting you as a Leftist because of your contradicting position, well I had merely said ignoring common sense money savings by saying they are too small is generally a leftist tactic – but if you want to go there, your Alinksy-like tactics of Straw-manning to avoid the actual conversation, twisting and downplaying of facts, overly personalization to lower the level of conversation, repeating incorrects endlessly and on and on, does show you are willing to use the Tactics of the Left to try and obscure the fact you are blatantly wrong.

          Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck… well, then its probably either a Duck or its just too stupid to know what it is and is merely copying the actions of those around it

          OcTEApi in reply to Darkstar58. | April 12, 2012 at 7:01 pm

          Alinksy-like tactics of Straw-manning to avoid the actual conversation, twisting and downplaying of facts, overly personalization to lower the level of conversation, repeating incorrects endlessly and on and on

          It was you who attacked in your FIRST reply, then you twisted and downplayed facts and bloviated endlessly
          -you’ve never proved anything I’ve stated as incorrect.

          Go back to IOTW and with all the other pseudo-conservatives who play Alinksyite games.

          You been bested and we’eere DONE

        OcTEApi in reply to OcTEApi. | April 11, 2012 at 7:42 pm

        Darkstar58 seems to think they can endlessly bloviate their way to success…

        The “Cole hard fact is” that monetary devaluation was my primary argument, I just left that part open to obvious assumption in my stand alone comment.

        I didn’t offer a penny for your thoughts, your bloviations started with an insult… GFY

          Darkstar58 in reply to OcTEApi. | April 11, 2012 at 8:10 pm

          “Cold” – and you have my apologies; I was unaware you would be one of those types, nit-picking comments for typos in an effort to “win” or whatever it is you think you can do in your quest to twist logic and look less foolish… (although, I should have probably been able to guess you were one of those types based off the argument you presented – oh well…)

          Anyway, again, if “monetary devaluation” was your point, and to stop said “monetary devaluation” you feel as though we should ignore blatant wasteful spending with such a simple no-brainer solution staring us right in the face, well then you are the exact problem I recognized you as in my very first post.

          And I guess I can only say, thank for proving my point!

          OcTEApi in reply to OcTEApi. | April 11, 2012 at 10:28 pm

          … first Treasury coins mandated by congress to be minted are “known fraud and abuse” and now its “waste.”

          There are plenty of things that congress does that are true waste, fraud and abuse I don’t have the time or inclination to “argue” with a bloviating moonbat.

          OcTEApi in reply to OcTEApi. | April 11, 2012 at 10:34 pm

          “….is small change compared to our greater problems and what we really need to do is raise taxes on rich people”

          if “monetary devaluation” was your point, and to stop said “monetary devaluation” you feel as though we should ignore blatant wasteful spending with such a simple no-brainer solution staring us right in the face, well then you are the exact problem I recognized you as in my very first post.

          You engaging in circular logic and putting words into my mouth I never said…. you’re a huge jackhole
          F**k O**

          Darkstar58 in reply to OcTEApi. | April 11, 2012 at 11:12 pm

          Seriously, WTF are you even talking about? Reading comprehension just isn’t your strong point, is it?

          My point has been, and will always stay, removing pennies eliminates what is purely wasteful spending. Spending 2.5 cents to make a 1 cent product is “waste”. And I never called it “Fraud and Abuse” – I only said “Fraud and Abuse” because the three result in the exact same result -money saved- while simultaneously meeting the same “well it isn’t enough to bother with” argument from the Left (and idiots like you). Its about as clear as day if one can follow conversation at the level of a 1st grader…

          So I am sorry that you are one of the single stupidest people I have ever seen in my life – a person who seriously claims they want the Government to spend less by telling people to ignore ways to save money, and obsessively argues endlessly to defend such stupidity when its questioned – but you just obviously are. And pitifully, you keep proving it with each post you provide…

1) a penny costs 2.4 cents… So what: $100 bill costs 5 cents to print.

2) Elimination of the penny will on balance cost consumer more money directly

3) I regularrly jar my change includin $1 bills, to the tune of a couple 100 bills every 2-3 weeks. Thats money I wouldn’t have.

4) Why are we arguing over reducing granularity in currency when markets go the other way? ( gas is sold in 10ths of cent, Stock and Forex are to 10,000ths )

5) If the penny bothers you why use imaginary currency at all? See federal reserve , Fractional reserve banking system…. its all monopoly money (two puns there if you are counting) right now anyway.

Steve

    Milhouse in reply to Steve. | April 11, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    1. What kind of argument is that? The $100 bill produces a $99.95 profit; the penny produces a 1.4 cent loss. The difference should be obvious to you.

    2. How will it cost the consumer anything?

    3. How would you not have this money? You might not put it in a jar, but you’d still have it. Nobody’s stopping you from putting whatever you like in whatever receptacles you like.

    4. Because pennies cost actual money to produce, and take up room in the pocket, and have weight. Extra granularity is fine, so long as the fractions only exist as numbers on paper. The problem only arises if you need to mint and carry a coin for them. The smallest unit of USA currency is the mill, but no 1 mill coin has ever been minted; even 220 years ago that was too small to be of any use.

    5. US currency is not imaginary; it’s as real as any currency.

      Steve in reply to Milhouse. | April 11, 2012 at 9:33 pm

      1) My point is that the penny doesn’t have a real cost, its more than paid for by ‘profit’ from the bills.

      2)Hmm try .. by rounding everything to 5C there is potential loss of 0 to 4 cents on any transaction… see ‘Modulus’. I say Consumer since it will disproportionately affect the cash using consumer.

      3) If pennies /dollars don’t exist how would I receive them in change for placing in my jar? Are you proposing i could legally make my own?

      4) Well then don’t carry them. I for one save them and trade them in for larger denominations.. this isn’t burdonsome. Sheesh you’d think that we routinely carry 1000’s of pennies for your argument to be realistic.. that just isn’t true. You can choose to leave your 0-4 pennies on the counter but don’t try to take mine.
      + Cheapest Checkers counter I can find.

      5) Which is not real… again see fractional reserve. Fiat currency. Its only worth something because people trust the word of the FED at the moment, but they create money out of thin air. I distrust this move to eliminate physical tokens. If your argument holds for the penny, then after the penny the same applies to the nickel, dime and quarter as they become smallest currency.

      A credit currency is a disaster waiting to happen in the wake of any event that removes power from points of commerce, as long as cash is available commerce can easily flow. I had a direct experience of this. In the wake of a hurricane a restaurant nearly closed because they had no small bill/change cash and many of the customers did not have exact change. Because of me and my Jar of pennies, nickels , dimes and quarters, collection of ones more than 400 people were able to get fed and the restaurant was able to sell their inventory rather than give it away or let it spoil.

        Darkstar58 in reply to Steve. | April 11, 2012 at 9:52 pm

        “2)Hmm try .. by rounding everything to 5C there is potential loss of 0 to 4 cents on any transaction… see ‘Modulus’. I say Consumer since it will disproportionately affect the cash using consumer.”

        uhm, there is a potential gain of 0 to 4 cents as well.

        And considering the countries which have eliminated pennies generally round down or in a worst case, round to nearest, you are left with:
        Best Case) 0-4 cent gain
        Worst Case) 50% shot on every transaction for a net 0 gain/loss on average

        “4) Well then don’t carry them. I for one save them and trade them in for larger denominations.. this isn’t burdonsome.

        It is for the world around you. Every single business with a register ends up counting pennies multiple times a day between opening, closing and bathes. In locations with multiple registers, you are talking about counting hundreds of pennies a day. Yet when all is said and done, said businesses are likely paying the employees around $10 on average to maybe document they have a couple bucks accounted for. Then they have to store and transport/deposit said pennies.

        Its an unnecessary costly burden which does little more then ensure a higher costing product to you, the guy worried about saving his pennies…

        Milhouse in reply to Steve. | April 12, 2012 at 12:56 am

        1. How does the profit on the $100 note affect the loss on the penny? If a grocery makes a loss on apples, it should stop selling them, shouldn’t it? How should the fact that it makes a profit on oranges change that?

        2. If rounding is to the nearest 5c, then the maximum loss to the consumer is 2c per transaction, and the average loss is a big fat zero. Only an idiot would worry about that. But experience shows that in practice rounding won’t be to the nearest 5c, it will always be down, leading to a gain to the consumer of a maximum of 4c and an average of 2c per transaction. So consumers would be very very slightly better off, besides the benefit of not having to carry around all those pennies.

        3. Why should anyone care about your jar? What law says you can’t put anything but pennies and dollars in it? Why don’t you put nickels and dimes in it? Or $1 coins? And how does your jar make you better off anyway? You have the same money no matter where you put it.

        4. If you don’t carry the pennies then what’s their point?

        5. Coins are just as notional a currency as bills or anything else. US currency doesn’t “stand” for money, it is money. Fractional reserve banking is a perfectly normal and rational business practise, and people who rail against it reveal themselves to be kooks, just like people who rail against fluoride in the water or FEMA concentration camps, or mind-control rays from space.

          Steve in reply to Milhouse. | April 15, 2012 at 1:43 am

          1) It isn’t apples and oranges … Besides business DO actually do this commonly. See ‘Loss Leader’ Customers who like apples ( that produce a loss) also buy Oranges and are happy both are available. For the Business owner it is a net win that matters not item by item loss.

          In this case its small apples and really big apples. 99.95 profit off of the $100 would pay for each denomination we have and STILL provide an overall profit.

          2) Ignoring ad Hominem. Your assertion of lkack of pennies being a benefit in the face of my assertion that it is no such thing cancels. Ignoring point 2.

          3) Its called SAVING. Pennies allow segregated savings. Debit cards don’t generally. I find I save a whole lot more when I use cash as opposed to credit.

          4)See Point 3 SAVING. AS in a Penny saved is a Penny earned?

          5) If you understood Fractional banking as described and practiced by the fed you’d be a bit wary of their ‘perfectly rational business practice’. US currency isn’t ‘money with intrinsic worth’ like a commodity that is readily tradeable.

          It is money based on and representing debt and literally created out of thin air. See Printing Press. Historically such ‘fiat’ currencies have not been stable. This one is starting down that road too unless the FED and Congress get control of spending, lending and other forms of inflating the currency.

          If a private citizen or non-bank entity used these ‘perfectly sane business practices’ we’d all be in jail for theft by check/warrant etc.The only legal means of practicing this is via credit card and as observed results in financial bondage.

          Take those lessons and apply back to the nation and its easy to see that there is a problem.

          6) New point… Once the nickel is the smallest currency, why not use the same argument to remove all currency except 100$ bill? I mean who wants those pesky $5 bills and its so much cleaner just to hand out $100 bills for almost everything. 90% of merchandise could have the same price!

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | April 16, 2012 at 12:44 am

          So now pennies are loss leaders for $100 bills?! Are you insane? Oh, that’s right, you are. Nobody needs to be persuaded to accept $100 bills!

          You save as much as you want to. Using cash does not magically give you more money to save! Debit cards are better than pennies — the money stays in your account instead of in a jar! Nobody but you is responsible for your peculiar habits.

          You seem to have no idea what money is. Money is by definition not a commodity, and has no “intrinsic value”. Money, all money, has value only in people’s minds. There’s nothing peculiar about the Fed’s use of fractional reserve banking; ranting about it is the sign of a conspiracy theorist. Do you believe in the black helicopters too?

          Nickels may still have some use, though I think probably not. By now the smallest useful coin is probably the dime. So by all means get rid of nickels, either at the same time as pennies, or after people get used to living without pennies. Dimes, on the other hand, are clearly useful, so why would you want to get rid of them? If they ever become as useless as pennies, then it will be time to get rid of them too.

Doing away from the penny would play havoc with the state and local sales taxes and with retail pricing. Since the sales tax is the same on .99 as on $1, stores will price at .99 rather than $1 and clear more than they would without the tax and charging $1, at the same time getting the sucker .. er … customer, to believe that it’s a whole cent cheaper. As if one cent bought anything these days.

    Milhouse in reply to Ike. | April 11, 2012 at 9:06 pm

    Garbage. This makes no sense at all. Doing away with the penny would not have any effect on prices or sales tax. They would all be calculated in the usual way, and the total would be rounded afterwards. That’s the total on the entire transaction, including the tax, not the price for each item. So a store that chose to always round in the customer’s favour would lose a maximum of 4 cents per customer, and an average of 2 cents per customer. In stores that chose to round to the nearest multiple, both the store and the customer may lose up to 2 cents per transaction, but would on average come out even. Either way, it’s nothing. It’s less than the cost of a plastic or paper bag to put the goods in.

      Steve in reply to Milhouse. | April 11, 2012 at 9:36 pm

      Well it isn’t nothing. my 0-4 (2 cent avg) pennies which I KEEP add up to hundreds of dollars by the end of the month every month. Keep your hands off my pennies, give yours away if you wish.

        Darkstar58 in reply to Steve. | April 11, 2012 at 10:01 pm

        Yes, it is nothing.

        Here, let’s put it in actual numbers and scenario for you to see.

        Now – your bill is $1.07. Lady tells you “it will be $1.07, please.” You had her $1.10. She hands you 3 pennies.

        No Penny World – your bill is $1.07. Lady tells you “it will be 1.05, please.” You hand her $1.05. She hands you 0 pennies.

        Which scenario is better for you?

You guys have gone mad. Why would I as a business owner round down? I wouldn’t, gas stations don’t now.

As far as cost of counting I call BS, there are machines that count and roll pennies accurately and quickly and which are quite affordable. I bought a small one with my pennies for example. As far as storing and Transporting, most cash businesses make deposits daily , the additional volume of pennies is negligible.

There is no real reason to do away with he penny.

    Darkstar58 in reply to Steve. | April 11, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    As far as rounding down – In countries where Pennies are no more, they often do; so not sure what to tell you. Much of it likely has to do with the fact that they don’t have to count, store and transfer the annoying things.

    Otherwise, they round to the Nearest – which if you pay with cash when it rounds down and CC when it rounds up, one would still be purely saving money if they were that much of a penny-pincher. Eliminating pennies is a net gain for the populace, even if you don’t want to believe it.

    As far as the cost of counting them – I take it you have never worked retail? That’s all I can say really, as every single business I have ever worked for (including one of the most profitable jewelry stores in the entire world) has paid my coworkers and I to count penny after penny after penny…

    And realistically, there is less reason to actually keep the penny then do away with it.

    Its a negative cost for the Government, its a negative cost for businesses and it serves no purpose to the public who generally could care less if one drops from their hands.

    They take space for everyone, add unnecessary weight for everyone and a hundred thousand of the stupid things being stolen still doesn’t constitute anything other then simple “petty theft”.

    Businesses are currently forced to keep them to satisfy “change” requirements, where most of us think nothing of telling the cashier to keep um or just toss um in the “take a penny” pile

    The only non-conspiracy argument to keep them is “sentimental/like them” – which is hardly a logical stance for Government to take.

    Milhouse in reply to Steve. | April 12, 2012 at 1:00 am

    Why would you round down? Because all your competitors are doing so, and customers will be angry if you don’t. But even if you hold out and stick to your legal right to round to the nearest multiple of 5c, that will be down half the time and up the other half, so the average effect on consumers is zero.

Funny, I posted about this very issue on my blog the other day, as the Canadians have given up their penny.

http://armedlaughing.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/in-for-a-penny/
Fortunately, we have no pennies in the U.S., only cents.

As to value v. cost of production, as our money is only based on what we’re told it represents, metallic value is of no importance. We no longer used copper, silver or gold.
Thanks for your time.
gfa

tomthesubmariner | April 12, 2012 at 5:42 pm

After reading all the comments, I realized, as I suspected that none of the commenters have lived in a penny free environment. I have. As a long time member of the US Military and living and working in overseas bases where we didn’t use pennies we didn’t miss them. At the PX/BX or commissary all transactions were rounded. 0 – 2 cents were rounded to 0. 3 – 5 cents were rounded to 5. In years of being overseas I probably was up 1 cent or down 1 cent. There was one exception, the Post Office. We had to use pennies there. Go figure!

    I realized, as I suspected that none of the commenters have lived in a penny free environment.

    Really? How exactly did you reach that conclusion? It should be pretty obvious that at least two commenters beside you have indeed lived in penny-free environments.

Darkstar58 = Paultard

Go back and hang out at ronpaul.com

Perhaps we should consider abolishing the $1 bill as well. It’s worth, well, less than $1.

And that’s my $0.02.

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