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Orrin Hatch for Senate

Orrin Hatch for Senate

I’m not jumping on the anti-Orrin Hatch bandwagon, and not making his primary race part of Operation Counterweight.

Orrin Hatch is no Dick Lugar.


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Hatch has done some yeoman’s work.

But it is time to go. Term limits really are mandatory, I have come to believe.

We may need to consider term limits for staff positions, too.

    Kenshu Ani in reply to Ragspierre. | April 23, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    I completely agree.

    If having power leads to corruption, as has been demonstrated throughout history, then we cannot trust those in power to voluntarily step down. There have been some that have stepped down for various reasons; but the corrupt ones only go down when they are drug down.

    When Hatch argued against term limits in 1995 he said it wouldn’t affect him because running for re-election in 2012 wasn’t on his list of things to do.

    There are many things I hope to be doing in the year 2012. Spending time with my great-grandchildren at that time would be higher on my list than spending time with Senate colleagues, esteemed though they are. Running for re-election is not on the list. So I am offering here my own disinterested observations, based on my years of experience in serving the people if Utah in the Senate.

    Apparently his great-grandkids mean less to him than winning re-election. Of course, you can say the same of almost everyone in this horribly bloated spending-loving federal government. Who cares about our grandkids, so long as I get to cash in now.

StrangernFiction | April 23, 2012 at 12:01 pm

Orrin Hatch’s average NTU score = 72
Dick Lugar’s average NTU score = 70

Utah is A LOT more red than Indiana.

    William A. Jacobson in reply to StrangernFiction. | April 23, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    American Conservative Union – Lugar lifetime rating 77.02, Hatch 89.77. In 2010 and 2011, Hatch 100, Lugar 71 and 75.

      StrangernFiction in reply to William A. Jacobson. | April 23, 2012 at 12:46 pm

      The NTU rating is a much better gauge of a representative’s fiscal record — it looks at all votes that impact the federal budget (and weights them) — than the ACU rating, which looks at just 20 votes across the entire spectrum.

      And Utah is much more red than Indiana. Over the last five presidential elections Utah has voted for Republicans by 30 points (tops of all states), while Indiana has voted for Republicans by 9 points.

      Given the state he represents, Hatch’s fiscal record is reason enough to eject him, his atrocious rhetoric aside.

      PrincetonAl in reply to William A. Jacobson. | April 23, 2012 at 12:58 pm

      Agreed, and I think citing the facts make sense. But his rating was in the 70s after the 2006 election, and has swung back right to his traditional numbers.

      But the bottom line is he was conservative for the first several terms, starting swinging leftwards, and then came back when he saw what was happening in 2010. The lifetime rating masks the swing left.

      Now, if he could be counted on to stay that way, I’d be fine. A true believer is better than someone who cribs off of Mike Lee’s votes.

      But with another re-election prospect less of a concern, we don’t have the leverage of another election to keep him rightwards. And his comments just sounded vindictive, and so not in keeping with a fiscal conservative, that I think he represents a risk if elected.

      Finally, the ACU scores count a lot of different votes, and is certainly a valuable starting place. But not every vote is equal, and even over looking TARP, it seems to me he has stopped fighting for fiscal conservatism, even if his voting record mirror’s Mike Lee’s as of late. From a state as red at Utah, I want an advocate.

      I can agree he is not a Dick Lugar, e.g. he’s not as bad as him, without agreeing that he is the best candidate in the primary, and without having a problem supporting his opponent.

      Hatch’s ACU score relative to his state’s Cook PVI is as bad as Lugar’s.

Did you hear what he said about the Tea party? He doesn’t say tea party by NAME, but everyone knows what he’s talking about.!

Let’s get some new blood in Congress.

    Hatch may not be Lugar however he is McCain the Hobbit-hater and 36 years in the Senate made him insane to the point where he approved Holden, Sunstein and Ruth Bader-Ginsberg.

    Though Palin is entitled to her opinion, I won’t agree with her on Hatch, any more that agreeing with her opinion that McCain is an honorable man because he served. Any honor McCain acquired while serving in the military he corrupted throughout his political life.

    An honorable man would not demean his uniform with a lifetime of corrupt back-door gangery. Like McCain, Hatch should have left politics 8 terms ago.

Not with you on this one, Professor.

1 – As a moderately conservative but fiscally very conservative libertarian, I found Hatch’s comments offensive. I viewed his comments as a threat to punish

2 – I think Hatch is not a reliable conservative coming into his final term, given that he may just want to “stick it” to those who opposed him, especially given his spiteful comments.

I think it is actually more important than ever to support his opponent because of the increased likelihood that he will be a Murkowski type candidate at this point.

3 – His voting record didn’t come right until 2010, when he saw what happened to Bennett. A fair weather friend, again in likely his final term, meaning he doesn’t have to face the voters again.

4 – He did not win over the tea party voters who voted in Mike Lee last time, he worked hard to get his supporters elected precinct committeemen … meaning the local conservatives who supported Mike Lee last time around have not come around on him. That is an important perspective, that the local-feet-on-the-ground that won such a great victory last time around … are not sold on him.

Time to go. By his own words, he has served too many terms.

The fact that Levin and Palin have endorsed him simply means that anyone can make a mistake.

If you want a corporatist authoritarian nation with a balanced budget, support Orrin Hatch.

Crikey! Hatch is the guy Clinton went to for advice on who to nominate to the Supreme Court that the Republicans would find acceptable. Hatch: Ruth Bader Ginsberg.

I have no idea what motivated you to take this position professor when saying nothing would have sufficed. Hatch is a Ted Kennedy Repubican.

I’m on the bandwagon. 36 years is too long for anybody. The Senate oughtn’t be a fiefdom or a lifetime entitlement. As a candidate who launched his career by attacking entrenched incumbency, Hatch should be the first to realize this and retire.

I think if I were in a run-off election with my “Tea Party” opponent, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be calling tea partiers “ultra liars.” Seems a wee bit stupid to me (but I’m beginning to think that is a prerequisite for politicians!).

Yeah professor, not with you on this one though you and I usually run pretty much the same. I really don’t think I would want to vote for someone who wants to punch me in the face for only wanting to be left alone.

Cowboy Curtis | April 23, 2012 at 2:54 pm

I’m going to re-frame the issue a bit:
1) Regardless of candidate, are we going to lose Utah?- No.

2) Who is the most reliable and active conservative in the race?-___________.

The answer to number two seems like the guy to back to me. I don’t know much about his opponent, but I’ve never been a fan of Hatch. But that doesn’t mean he’s not better than the other guy.

I’m all for putting the old bulls out to pasture, just so long as we are trading up. Utah is about as safe a state as we’ve got, so if the other guy is a firebrand, my question is why wouldn’t we back him? If for no other reason than to put the other old bulls on notice that they’d better straighten up and fly right, or else.

BannedbytheGuardian | April 23, 2012 at 7:55 pm

He does have a point about some gf the “T Party ” formal groups. The one backed by Dick Amey seems to be particularly self serving. Freedomworks FreedmExpress etc -just who are they ?

Th rest of the situation is up to Utahians. It is also quite likely an intra Mormon clash.

For example he pushed off Chaffetz who was a Romney peep. Romney might have been wanting to wrest more control within Utah.

My line of inquiry would be to get a better clue about the internals in mormonry in Nthn California & arizona.

Now I am on the lookout for those nice people on bicycles & this time I will ply them with these questions.

It is long past time for Hatch to leave. He took office in January, 1977! That is 35 years ago!

Hatch is clearly suffering from “Potomac Fever” after 35 years in the swamp.

I appreciate what he did in the earlier years but the last 8 to 12 years are pretty hard not to notice a tilt toward “go-along-to-get-along” in DC.

Just like I said about McCain. “Thanks for your service! Now go and enjoy a long retirement.”

Term Limits, NOW!!!

TeaPartyPatriot4ever | April 24, 2012 at 12:12 am

I agree with you Mr Jacobson. There plenty more liberal progressive RINO’s that need to be replaced in Congress ahead of Orin Hatch, like Murkowski, Collins, Graham, McCain, Snowe, who is retiring thank goodness, and so on..

Mark Levin has endorsed Orin Hatch, as does Sarah Palin, and so on..

I would venture to say that whomever is guiding the Freedom Works efforts to oust Orin Hatch, should make their claims publically stated, so we can see exactly what and why they are specifically making and basing their case on.

Am I correct on this assessment, or am I not.. I believe I am.

Stalin was no genius, but he was smart enough to know he needed to have a firm grip on power before he started the purges.

Hatch is as far to the left of his constituents as Lugar is:

Hatch’s transgressions are as subtle as they are shewd:

ACU scores don’t tell the whole story.

From John Fund:

“But in truth, for all of Liljenquist’s policy sparkle, a bigger factor in his support was Hatch’s own record. FreedomWorks, a Tea-party group headed by former House majority leader Dick Armey, spent $700,000 on grassroots action against Hatch, which included distributing a 42-page book called Orrin Hatch Facts to delegates.

“The Hatch people ‘hated that book,’ says Adam Brandon, a vice president of FreedomWorks. ‘They quibbled about a couple of typos because they couldn’t attack the substance. [Hatch] voted for the TARP bailouts, the auto bailouts, the Fannie and Freddie bailouts, the Department of Education. The delegates who read it couldn’t believe it.’

“But the most damaging material in the FreedomWorks kit was the account of Hatch’s longtime collaboration with his late friend Senator Ted Kennedy. The Republican had supported an individual mandate for health insurance as an alternative to Hillarycare in 1993, and in 1997, he voted for the Kennedy-backed SCHIP program of subsidized health insurance. In 2009, as Barack Obama came into office, Hatch made clear he would like to work with his ailing Democratic friend on comprehensive health-care legislation. ‘I would like to do [health-care reform] as a legacy issue for [Kennedy], if I can — this would mean a lot to him,’ he told The New Republic. Then, as opposition mounted during 2009 to his colleague Bob Bennett’s nomination back home, Hatch quickly transformed into a fierce and often effective critic of Obamacare in all its forms.

“The FreedomWorks criticism clearly rattled Hatch. With only days to go before the convention, the normally unflappable Hatch lost it. He told NPR that he had a stern warning for those opposing his reelection: ‘Give me a break — these people are not conservatives . . . I despise these people, and I’m not the type of guy you come in and dump on without getting punched in the mouth.’ The jarring remark broke Hatch’s momentum and — given that he missed the 60 percent threshold at the convention by only 32 delegate votes — it might have made a last-minute difference in shifting some delegates away from him.”