New Trump Delegate Chief Accuses Cruz of “Gestapo Tactics”
Godwin’s Law strikes again
As I noted yesterday, Donald Trump is having problems with delegates, and it sometimes seems that he doesn’t understand how GOP nomination rules work or that the rules are different in different states or even that there are rules at all. Whatever the reason for this impression, it’s backed up by the fact that he’s only recently begun to organize his team to work on delegates.
One Trump campaign shake-up following his discouraging last month or so is his new hire Paul Manafort, a move announced less than two weeks ago. Manafort is a long-time GOP political operative who has served as an adviser on the campaigns of Bob Dole, John McCain, and Gerald Ford, among others.
Mr. Manafort, 66, is among the few political hands in either party with direct experience managing nomination fights: As a young Republican operative, he helped manage the 1976 convention floor for Gerald Ford in his showdown with Ronald Reagan, the last time Republicans entered a convention with no candidate having clinched the nomination.
He performed a similar function for Mr. Reagan in 1980, and played leading roles in the 1988 and 1996 conventions, for George Bush and Bob Dole.
His work as delegate wrangler for the Ford campaign may have been part of the reason that he was approached to join Team Trump to lead the delegate effort.
According to Politico, Manafort was “hired by the Trump campaign to work on securing delegates ahead of a likely contested Republican convention in July. This week, Trump said that Manafort’s role was expanding to ‘oversee, manage, and be responsible for all activities that pertain to Mr. Trump’s delegate process and the Cleveland Convention.'”
Today, on Meet the Press, Manafort, who now holds a top position in the Trump campaign and should thus be more circumspect, accused the Cruz campaign of “Gestapo tactics.” He’s not some low level staffer or a campaign volunteer, so it’s curious that he would employ Godwin’s Law, the meme that states “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”
Watch the segment:
Following is the relevant excerpt from transcript:
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think he’s threatening delegates?
PAUL MANAFORT:
Well, he’s threatening, you go to these county conventions, and you see the tactics, Gestapo tactics, the scorched-earth tactics–
CHUCK TODD:
Gestapo tactics? That’s a strong word.
PAUL MANAFORT:
Well, you look at, we’re going to be filing several protests because reality is, you know, they are not playing by the rules. But frankly, that’s the side game. Because the only game I’m focusing on right now is getting delegates. And the games that have happened, even this past weekend, you know, are not important to the long-term game of how do we get to 1,237.
CHUCK TODD:
But is he, I guess what is fair game and getting a delegate? Is paying for their convention costs, is it– golf club memberships? What’s fair and unfair in this? What’s ethical, what’s unethical?
PAUL MANAFORT:
Well, there’s the law, and then there’s ethics, and then there’s getting votes. I’m not going to get into what tactics are used. I happen to think the best way we’re going to get delegates is to have Donald Trump be exposed to delegates, let the delegates hear what he says. He’s done very well so far in putting himself in position by virtue of communicating.
Manafort doesn’t offer any specifics about this “Gestapo tactics” allegation, but then, Godwin’s Law doesn’t require specifics, the comparison itself is the point. The corollary to Godwin’s Law, however, is that the person who invokes Hitler or Nazism loses the argument . . . or has already lost it and that’s why the Hitler comparison was made.
As Trump’s team becomes more knowledgeable about the nomination process through hires like Manafort and are able to “box out” Ted Cruz as they did in Michigan, they may regret opening the door to Gestapo comparisons for simply outmaneuvering the competition.
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Comments
Never voting for Cruz no matter what he does. He is a fake.
The #neverCruz and #onlyTrump movements are growing. I’m seeing more and more of posts like yours and mine. These movements are growing partly because of the behavior of Cruz and his cruzbots but mostly in my opinion because of the behavior of the GOP party leadership at both the state and national levels. The following two stories out today are perfect examples.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/colorado-gop-nevertrump-tweet-221766
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/donald-trump-indiana-primary-221747
I am only Trump and will actively vote atainst the GOP all up and down the ballot in the general election if Trump is not the nominee.
It looks like you will get your wish:
In NC, of the 39 delegates to be elected at the Congressional District, the recap of the first 24 delegates selected are
Cruz 21
Kasich 2
Trump 1
To refresh your memory:
NC has 72 delegates; 39 chosen by Congressional District, 30 chosen “at-large” at the state convention, and 3 others reserved for Party leadership.
It looks like the second ballot will be a disaster for Trump.
I guess this is what happens when you are politically incompetent. What you are left with his accusing your opponent of “Gestapo Tactics”. I think someone has spent a little too much time in the Ukraine.
But as president Trump will surround himself with the Best, he knows them, and we will all Win Win Win.
Yea, like most entitled little rich boys who have never know a day in their life when they weren’t rich, Trump equates most expensive with the best and usually that just isn’t true.
You people are so stupid you think Cruz would be getting this success if thebGOPe at the state level wasn’t in full on stop Trump corruption mode.
As an insider, are you allowed to tell us more about the Trump corruption?
I have to say there is little difference between the Trumpettes and the Occupy Wall Street crowd. You repeat verbatim whatever your handlers tell you to say without any regard for the truth, facts, or reality. Whereas, the Occupy Wall Street crowd seeks anarchy from the left, your movement seeks anarchy from the other direction. This is why the good professor’s claim of the Trump campaign being founded on chaos rings true.
I get it, you are a movement, or more likely, you want to be a movement. Like the Occupy movement, it is a movement based on the faith that Donald J Trump can and will solve all of our problems. And like the pagan faiths of old, we have to accept all of your wacky precepts or face condemnation.
We have to accept that your self-righteous faith is far superior of everyone else’s faith. As the members of the Occupy Wall Street Movement are wont to say, “we are more christian than Christians.”.
I wish you much luck in your endeavors, you will need it; and like the Children’s Crusade of over 800 years ago, you will fail.
Gary, sorry to see that those hemorrhoids of yours are still causing you to be so caustic in your remarks……maybe it was the magic dust that Cruz dusted the air in your neighborhood with that caused them to flare up so badly. Maybe The Donald® will send you a check to make the boo-boo all better.
Funny how it’s not a corrupt system when Trump and his sTrumpets win something, but how it’s the corrupt establishment when he’s asleep at the switch and has delegates raided from him. Guess the only one who’s allowed to play hardball is The Donald®. It’s a good thing that The Donald® isn’t black, or we’d have to endure the shrill cry of racciiiiiiiiiiist hurled at Ted to boot.
And wow….hiring Roger Stone’s ex-partner is such a stroke of brilliance–and such a coincidence.
BTW–love that new Lhasa apso The Donald® has attached to the top of his head–the color is a lot more natural this time. I hope this one is velcroed into place since the Crazy Glue killed the last one.
Monoforts comments are especially silly when you consider that DT has no problem “greasing the skids” with campaign cash for business puposes. I wonder what his business competitors have to say about fairness? Reality is, Cruz’s team knows the rules and has been preparing for this for way longer than DT. This rediculous attack by Monofort was to be expected
It also happens when your are not conservative in the least. Those who preach Trumps conservative credentials remind me of a quote from McBeth; “It is a tail told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Whew! Glad to hear it. We have all been worried about your steadfastness.
We already knew you were a Democrat. We could see you coming from a long way off.
I have voted straight republican in every election since I turned 18. Far longer than you Valerie. So the only think you could have possibly seen is my big arse as I walked away from the corruption that has become the GOP you are stupid enough to continue to support.
No, it can’t be so. You voting the straight party ticket? We all thought that you were a student of the issues, not just one of the sheep.
Oh, so anyone who doesn’t believe as you do is “stupid”, yea way to wind hearts and minds there, brilliance.
Not that I actually believe that you voted Republican, but if you did then you have just let liberal propaganda change your out look, the Party outside of the establishment hasn’t changed that much, and most of those true establishment guys are getting voted out and honestly are so old their days are numbered in the first place.
Yah, yah, yah. We know, Gaghdad Bob. You are a a full-tilt cultist for your man-crush, and will brook no departure from the true faith!
We also know you to be a liar, so noting you’ve ever said or could say now about who you are holds any influence.
When you habitually lie as you historically HAVE, you become just white noise.
A hiss and a by-word. Nobody cares about you.
“I am only Trump and will actively vote atainst the GOP all up and down the ballot in the general election if Trump is not the nominee.”
And no one here even comes close to believing that you were ever gonna vote republican in the first place. From your first post it has been obvious that you are nothing more than a liberal democrat troll.
As far as their being a only trump movement, most likely these are people like yourself who were either gonna vote Hillary any way or weren’t actually going to vote at all. (Oh, I feel the same way about the never trump folks to, the vast majority are the folks that were either never gonna vote for anyone but candidate x or were just going to stay home anyway.)
Conservative in the Primary, Republican in the General. Is a rule I have followed for years. Trump is the furthers thing from conservative since all his views magically changed right around the time he decided to try for the Republican nomination.
If Trump is the nominee, which I never believed that the would be, but if he is, then I will vote Republican because I am a Republican and I believe that usually whatever they give us will be worlds better than the Democrat nominee.
Trump supporters may well get what they want, however I am fairly sure they are going to end up not wanting what they get.
But Hillary and Trump aren’t fakes…got it…and, bless your heart.
I will vote for him.
“I happen to think the best way we’re going to get delegates is to have Donald Trump be exposed to delegates…”
OK. I need the 55 gallon drum of brain bleach…
And somehow I doubt very much that having Der Donald expose himself to delegates will do much more than make them laugh manically.
I wonder…is he talking trench coat type exposure or just comparing his hands and his…? Just asking.
Being exposed to the delegates is what The Donald® has been rehearsing when he returns back to the City for a breather….he hangs around the Port Authority Bus Terminal, practicing with his panel of experts who work it–trench coat and all!
Current conventional wisdom is that Trump has to “change” & be “Presidential”. Except that Trump’s only advisor is Trump & Trump got where he is by being Trump; that is, by being a super-used-car-salesman. Cruz is the professional & the smartest guy in the room. Wouldn’t it be refreshing to have someone whose life & actions demonstrate a fidelity to the Constitution?
Cruz will be elected President, just as was Reagan.
Cruz/Fiorina 2016.
I thought he was faithful to the constitution too, but his campaign has been sleazy.
As for his actions, he’s a mostly untested half term Senator whose senate career has been characterized by a bunch of vote failures and PR stunts.
He could only get 44% in his home state for a reason.
Yeah there a reason, Trumptard, he only got 44% in TX. Marco Rubio. Cruz is popular in TX but at the time Rubio was still in the race and a lot of TX Republicans thought Rubio had a better chance of beating Clinton on the national stage. Which was a relief as most Texas Republicans don’t want to lose Ted as our Senator.
Had it only been a three man race Cruz would have gotten close to if not over 60%. Maybe even more what with you Trumptards lying about Ted and smearing him for simply running his campaign according to the rules. Do you imagine no one can see through your idiocy? Trump really is a liberal because everything he says, and his campaign spokes weasels say on his behalf. Gestapo tactics? Trump henchman Roger Stone threatened a campaign of intimidation against second and third ballot Cruz supporters by publicizing their names, hotels, room numbers and phone numbers so Trumptards like you could confront them. Confront them and do what? Here’s a hint. Trump threatened riots, and if not Trump others on his behalf threatened “days of rage.”
Those are brown shirt tactics.
For liberal NY democrat Trump and his supporters to threaten actual violence while accusing Cruz of engaging in “Gestapo tactics” is the height of hupocrisy. It’s right up there with Hillary Clinton accusing other people of turning the ’80s into the “decade of greed” when it was her and Billy Jeff screwing people out of their life savings on their crooked land deals.
You can always spot the corrupt liberal in the race because they’re hypocrites who project their own psychoses and their own misdeeds on their opponents.
Since the subject was raised, that ad created by the Super PAC founded by Cruz’s lawyer, was lovely.
Just the kind of discourse we need more of in politics, courtesy of Republican insiders, which Cruz is now undoubtedly part, trying to hang on to control of their rotten system with oppressive and underhanded means. Ironic how much they pretend to be ethical.
More seriously, I would hope this site, which cares about issues important to Jews, would chime in at the disgusting effort to not only demonize someone in the most vicious way, but trivialize Jewish suffering at the hands of the real perpetrators.
As I noted yesterday, Donald Trump is having problems with delegates
Anybody with a shred of respect for representative government should have a problem with delegates, if the behavior of Camp Cruz indicates a trend for America’s future.
The term “persistent, obdurate ignorance” springs to mind very often when I read your posts.
When stars run out of fuel they collapse in on themselves as the equilibrium between energy pushing outward and gravity pulling inward is lost. The largest stars become black holes. Density is infinite at the black hole singularity.
Houston, we have discovered another object in the universe of infinite density. The Trumpster.
Yes Tom. I’d have a huge problem with the delegate selection process IF we were talking about representative government. But Tom. We’re not talking about anything that has to do with government of any kind. We are talking about political parties, which are private organizations. Their internal processes are entirely up to them. This includes their candidate and delegate nomination processes. And that’s the way it has always been ever since we have had political parties.
How the hell is any of this news to you? I mean, political parties have only been operating this way for a couple of centuries now. And the CO GOP only announced last effin’ August that they had voted to change their procedures and do things this way instead of holding non-binding straw polls. Because the national GOP changed the rules and eliminated non-binding straw polls and the CO GOP doesn’t bind its delegates and hasn’t for years.
Snuck up on you, did it? I’d be ashamed to be posting comments like yours.
What business is it of yours, anyway, if you don’t live in CO (or the other two states or three territories that also don’t hold primaries or caucuses for presidential candidates). And if you do live in those states or territories it’s your own fault for not paying attention so it’s too late for you to complain now.
Oh so now that your rich boy genius is having trouble figuring out the system that has been in place for many years, you now want it changed because it is unfair! If your hero was half as bright as you Trumpets claim he is he wouldn’t be acting like a clown that knows nothing. Didn’t we just elect one of those? BTW, this entire article is a joke. Just last week Roger Stone, you remember Trump’s “Fired” right-hand man, testified that the Trump people would identify and “Out” any delegate that was going to switch to Cruz on the second ballot. Wow! Talk about Gestapo tactics!
Well, it appears most of the old firm of Black, Manafort, Stone (yes, Roger) are back together again. Charlie Black is working for Kasich.
While Trump and Kasich may maintain the innocence of what happened in MI, I am reminded of this quote from FDR:
“In politics nothing happens ‘by chance.’ If something happens, then you can bet that it was planned that way.”
To then accuse Cruz of “Gestapo Tactics”, is despicable. Anyone who believes this garbage is either facile or a troll.
In a lot of places, Goodwin’s law has a corollary, namely that whoever first uses the Nazi example loses, absent solid historical evidence.
I feel very safe in assuming that Ted Cruz’s campaign has been busy attempting to persuade delegates to their side, as well as arguing for rules favoring their side, and not sending armed men in the middle of the night to roust delegates out of their homes and cart them to concentration camps.
Carelessly slinging around over-the-top accusations, like “gestapo tactics,” plays into the hands of our Democrat-supporting press. It is a stupid thing to do, and invites derision.
I would like to know the specifics of whatever raised his ire, in order to know whether the accusation is more meritorious than I currently think it is.
Very well stated
I would also point out it was Roger Stone who actually has tried to incite mob violence to ensure the convention delegates vote for Trump. To date, I have not read a disavowal of Stone’s actions from Manafort or Trump. I think the only thing I have read from Team Trump and the trolls is that Stone is not working for Trump.
Wouldn’t the appropriate statement be: Hey Roger … STFU!.?
The tone is set at the top, and Trump’s now #1 jerk perfectly mimics Trump’s hyperbole, as do some of his supporters on LI.
For a campaigning figure such as Manafort, or campaigning figures from the Cruz campaign, to use the term ‘Gestapo’ is over the top.
As non-public figures, voters and supporters on either side have no such restrictions on the use of such terms.
Paul Manafort is now the team’s primary delegate consigliere.
Very wise move, if in hindsight, to bring this kind of talent on board.
Manafort throwing the Gestapo-bomb also has the effect of immediately garnering attention Media-wide (including this blog) to plant firmly the name “Paul Manafort” in the public’s mind.
A Throw-Down… which has achieved an objective.
I have no idea who you are or what you believe in but you just showed me a lot of your inner core. The fact that Manafort used terrible wording to get the attention of the media,
“Manafort throwing the Gestapo-bomb also has the effect of immediately garnering attention Media-wide (including this blog) to plant firmly the name “Paul Manafort” in the public’s mind.”,
tells me that you are without any substance and have watched too many TV shows. That tactic is a Pelosi-Reid tactic and it is as despicable now as it was then. I guess you were on board with Reid saying Romney hadn’t paid taxes in ten years? Or that Pelosi said the TEA partiers were just like Brownshirts? You are showing that you have the same shallow level of concern for your country that Trump does and that publicity is more important than substance.
VotingFemale | April 7, 2016 at 4:40 pm
Twitter Feed:
Come convention time, Trump will be prepared to do battle with the GOPe’s Cruzstapo Jackbooted Goons:
Twitter Feed:
Voting Female
@VotingFemale
Team Trump Prepares To Take On the GOPe Goon Squad
http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/07/trump-reorganizes-campaign-in-preparation-for-convention/
#NYprimary
#nra #maga #tcot #pjnet
http://pic.twitter.com/FcUxBQyrvs
1:13pm · 7 Apr 2016 · TweetDeck
You need some memory supplements…
I said: “As non-public figures, voters and supporters on either side have no such restrictions on the use of such terms.”
I am a voter, Rags, not an official with a national presidential campaign.”
You just barked up the wrong tree.
You’re barking mad.
And what you just said indicates you DO think there are two standards for Americans; ergo, you recognize and support an elite.
Interesting. No Constitutional Conservative I know believes that.
You can bark all you want to and you are still wrong.
There are different standards for uppity up politicians than for private citizens.
lololol
“Godwin’s Law” fails in situations in which the comparison to Hitler and Nazis is appropriate. Not saying that it is in this situation, just that the “law” is sometimes used to label an argument as “lost” merely for invoking Hitler, even when the invocation is appropriate. Godwin’s Law provides an easy way to claim victory in an argument, even if the claimant can’t provide an argument demonstrating that the comparison to Hitler and his pals is invalid.
In other words, invoking “godwin” is as stupid as invoking hitler. typically true.
Nooo. Nice try, Trumptard, but invoking Godwin’s law is a shorthand way of pointing out how stupid it is to invoke Hitler.
You’ve never learned the rules of logic then. It’s not up to the “claimant” to prove an argument is invalid because you can’t prove a negative.
It is entirely up to those making the Hitler/Nazi comparison is valid. If they can’t Godwin’s law applies. It’s only because the vast majority of Hitler/Nazi comparisons and/or accusations are so utterly baseless that invoking Godwin’s law is an easy way to claim victory.
Because it’s an easy way to achieve victory.
The GOPe are terrified hoomans living in DC. They can’t control Trump because he has the money. And, also because he has the headlines in his favor. (Politicians, especially those in a minority party) are dead when they lack media representation.
So Trump has the money to prevail. And, unlike Ross Perot in 1992, Trump is not paranoid. He also covers all his events with enough cameras … that he can flood out into the Internet anything the mongoloid media tries to push away.
Im not sure, but I think Reagan held sway “down the ticket.” So he not only won (twice!) … he brought lots of republican winners to Washington, DC. (Trump, not so much.)
And, of course, should Trump win there’s lots of people expecting he starts off his victory speech with “you’re fired!”
There’s a good chance Washington, DC is headed for an upheaval. Can it duplicate 1968?
” And, unlike Ross Perot in 1992, Trump is not paranoid.”
Are you serious? Anybody or anything that makes the slightest disrespectful comment of Trump is immediately vilified. Any threat to his imminence is not challenged but met over the top name calling and outright lies. He boasts of his wealth and likeability and when either is challenged he attacks the threat instead of answering the charge. To go into politics thinking that everyone who votes for someone else hates you is a sign of some disorder. I am no psychologist but Trump is suffering from some form of personality disorder.
Trumps confusion about delegate rules and process is easily explainable. Trump, being a life long liberal democrat, thought that they rules would be similar to the rules used by the democrats. So when he began lying and trying to act conservative he didn’t realize that he couldn’t corrupt the process as easily as on the democrat side.
Maybe, but I have thought that Trump simply believes that rules do not apply to him as a member of the ruling elite, along with Hillary.
You are right. If he were a Demorat he would own the super delegates just the way hillary does. The supers are for the power brokers in the Demorat party to decide whom the candidate will be after the little people play their silly game of voting.
There are quite a few accounts floating around the web today of Trump supporters being blocked out of the delegate selection process. Lifelong republicans suddenly not on the list? Trump favorable delegates left off the ballot? Preference votes being willfully ignored? I haven’t the time or means to vet them, but if true, there are going to be an awful lot of very pissed off voters out there. The party better tread very carefully. They could very well threaten their down ticket candidates.
I would suggest primarying the local races. That does take some effort, I admit.
Doesn’t Manafort have some Ukrainian fugitive to hide from Interpol? Or did that job end when he got the fugitive to Trump’s buddy and Trump approved downer of loaded civilian aircraft Putin?
“Manafort … has served as an adviser on the campaigns of Bob Dole, John McCain, and Gerald Ford”. Trump should fit right in on that CV, except for the total lack of class.
What a tremendous list of ex-Presidents to put on a resume–Bob Dole and McCain’s presidencies were just breathtaking.
I thought Manafort was trying to change the language. Take the word “gestapo” with its emotional connotation and imply the meaning of “guerrilla” wherein Cruz uses the local terrain of delegate rules to pick off a delegate here and there harrying Trump all the way to the convention. Basically, trying to give the news a term they’ll repeat ad nauseum and damn Cruz with the Nazi connotation.
Much like when the news missuses an idiom until the meaning has changed completely. A few years ago they changed the meaning of “double down” from a blind bet to “emphatically reinforcing” or “double up.”
Trolling is heavy here tonight. My, my….
Cruz follows the rules ==> Gestapo Tactics
Trump breaks rules and lies ==> A-ok, way to “make a deal”
Double-standards, indeed.
Time to watch Trump’s minions for breaking of laws….because that non-answer answer of this mealy-mouthed thug means he plans to do whatever it takes – regardless of rules or the law – to “get delegates.”
I call PROJECTION on the Trump-worshipers – i.e. the goon-squad-jawing, new-hire muscle, Gestapo name-caller Manafort (following closely Stone’s example), as well as the obedient useful idiot trolls, that is. (Yes, VotingFemale, I’m looking at you….)
I think the use of “Gestapo Tactics” was meant to scare NY Jews from voting for Cruz. No one would ever accuse Trump of “Gestapo Tactics”, since all Jews know Trump will remain neutral.
Manafort & Stone will only perpetuate the obnoxious whinefest that has collapsed Trump’s campaign, so……… shhhhhh.
This is all good practice for tghe electoral college when Trump runs third party.
As in the previous thread: Pray tell – on WHICH THIRD PARTY line would he run?
He’s missed the deadlines to file for his own party, and I don’t think that any of the OTHER established parties would have Trump, as his positions are an anathema to them.
Also, to address your previous assertion regarding Don Jr. running at the top of the ticket, I believe both Donald Trump and Don Jr. are both residents of New York, making it an eligible ticket.
Sore loser laws would keep him off the ballot in several states. In TX, if you ran in a primary and lost, you can not be another party’s candidate.
Talk about starting a game and then quitting and going home because you didn’t like the officiating! If Trump does that the brand of Trump will be dead to all who value trust and class. He will be beholding to the blue collar crowd forever even though his kingdom caters to the elite.
I think I should point out a subtle point about Godwin’s law. The winner is considered to be the first person against who accusations of being a Nazi are made. You know like being accused of having people at your rally give the Nazi salut, or having a “literally Hitler”.
Yeah yeah I know that in his finest “ambulance chasing” technique, Cruz is not responsible for these things. They just seem to benefit him. Just like Bill.
One thing is clear, the R branch of the uniparty is bust ripping off the facade that voters matter.
Those that take the time off work to bother with voting, because they believe it important, now know just how important the party thinks they are.
It will not end well for the republicans. Given what they have accomplished in the last 20 years, the sooner the better.
Very well said.
No. It really wasn’t well said.
On the other hand, I do agree with the idea that it is time to kill off the Republican Party. I’m all for splitting it into the Conservative Party and some Centerist party, and finally purging the RINOs (those who believe in ever-larger nanny state Federal Governance, lack of local control and who abhor smaller, more localized governance responsive to the people).
So basically you are in favor of only ever having liberal administrations again, that is what a party split would mean.
Frankly that is what I think Trumpettes are hoping for.
“So basically you are in favor of only ever having liberal administrations again…”
Hate to break it to you Gremlin, but that is precisely what we have, and have had for many years.
You cannot destroy the left unless you first destroy the left’s enablers, and they are the R party.
Yes and No, after a fashion.
Would it be a short-term pain? Yes, it most certainly would, as the death of any political party would be.
In the long run, one of two things would happen:
1.) the Conservative party would gain a sufficient foothold in the House, Senate and statewide races in order to influence policy, set a true set of principles and the masses would follow; OR
2.) the Conservative party would stabilize around 37-39%, and the Moderate party would draw away a good chunk of Democrat voters into the centrist/moderate party (because it would either no longer be labeled Republican, or because the most odious policies to the Moderates would go to the Conservatives (at about 37-38%. The remaining Democrat party would break at about 23-25%, and it would result in a shift back toward Medium Right to hard right.
If event two were to occur, you would see an extreme hollowing-out of the Democrat party, as the slightly left flee the Occu-pooper extremes and the Kos-kiddie morons. That hollowing out would likely cause a fracture in the Dims as well, as the Greens or socialists would make a play for control, and be fought to a stand-still by the family party and the Communist/Statists.
Call them the new Whig party.
That’s okay ……
You and your ilk are members of the Know Nothing Party. You have no idea how that moniker really fits; historically and present day reality.
“You have no idea how” much you are being fooled by the current R party.
3 monkeys apply.
Oh, votes DO matter. But so do RULES, and Mr. Trump has been woefully unprepared to deal with the RULES, merely whining when he doesn’t get his way.
Trump is supposed to be the big businessman in the room. If he can’t pay attention to the details, then there is no place for him in the government.
Hey Barry, it is the same in both parties. Have you not noticed the super delegates in the Demorat party? They have much more say than the one man, one vote rule that they and the Republicans advocate. The revolution is coming but not because of any whining from Trump or his supporters. They are just sore losers.
I find it strange tat the establishment cannot stand Cruz, & he is now their favorite ot son.
I don’t find it strange so much as amusing. They hate Cruz but the hate Trump just a little bit more. They don’t want to be stuck with a cranky old Grandpa campaigning in the general election by hiding in Trump Tower and tweeting out insults. Even Granny Clinton is on the road.
They hate Cruz because he was against everything they stood for. But they do know that he, at least, has an idea of how the world works and is not trying to reinvent the wheel like Trump. To my knowledge, every proposal that Trump has made of things he will do once in office are either illegal or not his prerogative to do. It is the opposite of what Superman can do.
What partisan supports of various candidates fail to see is the big picture within this year’s GOP primary. That is how totally messed up the GOP delegate selection process is.
In the first place, who, in their right mind, has different delegate selection rules for each individual political subdivision. You have states which have caucuses. States which have primary elections. And states which have NO caucus or election at all, where the party leadership picks the delegates. Second you have the actual choosing of delegates within the state. Many of the state GOP committees do not choose delegates who are supporters of the candidate for whom they are “pledged” to vote. More insanity. It would be far more representative of the will of the voters, if a delegate, who was pledged to vote for a particular candidate, was actually picked by THAT candidate, not by a very interested third party. Even worse if if the delegate is simply a tool of the leadership and will vote whichever way he is instructed to vote, by the leadership of the party. Third, there are the byzantine delegate voting rules in the national convention. Allowing a delegate to vote for a candidate, other than the one for whom he is pledged, makes sense. It allows for candidates to form alliances, at the convention, to select a nominee who will prove advantageous to their aims and objectives. However, it is only representative of the will of the rank and file membership, if a candidate’s delegates are actually supporters of that candidate. Otherwise, after the initial vote, in the convention, a candidate loses all leverage as “his” delegates are then free to vote for another candidate, whom they support. This essentially disenfranchises the common voter.
Now, the Party is free to set up any procedures that they want. But, what the GOP did was continuously tell their rank and file membership that their candidate election procedures were set up to allow those rank and file members to actually choose the nominee. They were going to follow the “will” of their membership. What this primary makes glaringly obvious is that the rank and file has little input as to who is going to be the nominee and that the leadership of the party has no intention of allowing the rank and file membership to actually have a voice in the selection of the nominee. In other words, everyone can see that the game is rigged. Everyone can see that their vote does not matter. The party leadership is going to choose the nominee, no matter what the rank and file membership want. And, when people realize that they are disenfranchised by the system, they simply leave it.
I hope Mr. Jacobson doesn’t mind this expounding on my experience this past Saturday…this is only a telling of my experience, not a condemnation of a specific campaign.
Once again, Trump is complaining about his failure at securing Colorado delegates and pointing the finger at corruption in the GOP and with the Cruz campaign. If only we had organizations that would investigate such allegations and clearly describe their findings as to substantiating such accusations…but no, the media no longer provides such services. They’re Democrats with bylines and goals; such actions might undermine their efforts to elect socialists and statists.
I can’t speak to any other state nor any other delegate’s experience—only my own. I live in the northwest metro region of Denver and attended my precinct caucus in February. That gathering of 17 neighborhood Republicans met to discuss the coming political season. No, none of us were closet elitists nor corrupt-ocrats intent on pushing a specific agenda. Most were retirees from the local elderly community; a few younger than my 57 years…The chair had to read through the materials in order to run the meeting, the treasurer and secretary were elected (volunteered) from the participants. We already knew that a straw poll to define our presidential preferences wasn’t going to occur…no bound delegates were being sent to Cleveland. We were only there to elect delegates to represent the views and values of the participants.
Is this democracy? Or a gathering of elitists hell-bent on denying the will of the people? Depends on your perspective, I guess. But this is the system Colorado has been using for decades and we’ve managed to do okay. Sometimes less than okay, other times better…depends on who is participating—just like a democracy, or as we once were, a republic.
I knew a couple of the folks that attended as I’d seen them in past caucuses, but I didn’t know their names. Some knew my face, but no one called me by name. As a precinct, based on the previous state election votes, we were allotted a set number of delegates to elect: six for county, two for Congressional and two for State, and an equal number of alternates. We who were interested in participating as delegates self-identified and described our values and concerns to the group. As it turned out, we had more slots to fill than people interested in attending the county assembly, which often happens; so everyone who wanted, got to go.
Given that there were more people interested in attending the Congressional and State conventions, those folks then ‘stood’ for election as a delegate. Prior to this vote, though, we discussed the presidential campaign and our perspective. Thus, everyone knew who supported which candidates (btw, only 1 Trump supporter attended our precinct caucus, and had no interest in attending as a delegate…Right there, the Trump campaign failed.) Remember, it’s only delegate votes that select a candidate as a representative of the party in elections—you don’t play, you don’t win. I was playing, and I won a delegate slot at both the Congressional and State assemblies.
The County assembly focuses on local elections (state House and Senate, county commissioners), one Saturday in March. No delegates move on or are associated with Presidential politics.
Then, as a delegate to Congressional District 7, I attended the April 7th gathering where we were assigned the task of electing 3 delegates and alternates to the Cleveland gathering. There were approximately 64 people who had filled out the paperwork—where would we be without paperwork, eh?—to vie for those 6 slots, of which the top three would be delegates. None of this is new; this process has been going on for decades and the rules haven’t changed in any meaningful way for this year. Again, the delegates elected would be unbound…not pledged to a specific candidate, not bound by Colorado GOP rules to vote a specific candidate.
The lack of Trump or Kasich organization was on display: no professionally printed signage, no slate of delegates pledged to vote for Trump or Kasich, nothing to make this delegate think that there was even another candidate but Cruz. The Cruz campaign had a slate, had signs, had delegates speaking in favor of the candidate. I knew of the delegates supporting Cruz from previous assemblies and knew their work in the GOP. Were they elitists or party poohbahs? Possibly, but they were people I’ve interacted and met with and people I trusted to support conservative values (yes, even non-evangelicals have values that they vote).That’s how an election is won; and Cruz won 5 of the 6 slots—and all three delegates—handily.
A quick word or more about slates. They’re nothing more than a list of delegates that support and are committed to a specific candidate. In an election with 26 winners and 580 not-winners, a campaign wants to maximize it’s possibility for victory by highlighting those people pledged to support them. By focusing the delegates on specific individuals amidst a 600+ list of delegate options, a campaign increases its odds of seating more delegates. That’s the power of the slate. Delegates who are committed to a campaign will work with the campaign staff to get their name on the slate…it’s what you do when you want to win. And politics is about winning, not media mentions or web site traffic.
The same experience was seen at the State convention last Saturday. Before walking into the convention center, the Cruz campaign was evident, with supporters in bright orange—Bronco orange, if you will—and handing out literature and the vetted slate. Sen. Cruz showed up, and delegates like a candidate that shows up. It’s meaningful and, if done right, powerful. Just ask US Senate candidates Daryl Glenn and Tim Neville about the power of showing up and showing up strong. Neville had the organization, the staff, and the recognition of being a CO State Senator. Glenn had some presence but his presentation, his showing if you will, was powerful enough to deny Sen. Neville a place on the primary ballot and will certainly drive many of the GOP activist/delegates in Colorado to his campaign.
Given the Cruz campaigns presence, organization, and hard work, it didn’t surprise me a bit that the rank-and-file Republicans that attended the State Convention supported conservative delegates…Mr. Trump has outed himself time-and-again as a liberal ‘Republican’ multiple times in the last few months and a financial supporter of liberal politicians from the northeast corridor of America. The Colorado GOP is populated by conservative Republicans who support conservative values, and continue to vote and work and financially support politicians who express conservative values. Do we necessarily like or approve of all that candidates positions or statements? Rarely, but we value the Constitution, the rule of law, and small government influence on our day-to-day lives.
Mr. Trump will thrash about in the media and internet, ‘Godwinning’ either through his staff or himself the Cruz campaign…but as we all know, the first person to reference Hitler or Nazis is usually the one without a strong argument or insight to the situation.
All the corruption in the GOP is being defended by the GOPe and the Cruzbot wing of the GOPe withe reply
“Sure it is corrupt but it has always been corrupt. It has been corrupt for over 10p years”
Somehow I just don’t think the “its always been corrupt” defense strikes me as not going to be all that persuasive to voters.
As Rush explicated today (for anyone with the brains and integrity to comprehend) there is no corruption.
You, of course, are excused from the exercise. On two counts.
Trump brags of fueling the corruption, but you expect him to end it.
OMG!! Corruption! Corruption everywhere!
You know what that corruption consists of? The GOP, like all political parties, is a private organization, and as a private organization it is going to maintain at least some control of who, as a party, is going to be their nominee.
To call this corruption is idiotic. I expect this from leftists, who also are under the same delusion. They’ll protest Burger King because it’s not a vegan. They think fast food restaurants exist to provide people with jobs at 15 dollars an hour.
Gary Britt can not possibly be the life-long Republican he claims to be, because like all leftists he doesn’t know why private organizations exist. Like all leftists he thinks private organizations exist to give him whatever he demands. Now that he’s being confronted with the reality that this is not and never has been the case since the dawn of political parties in the US, he can’t deal with it and cries corruption.
genes nails it. You want to know what corruption looks like? Look at a picture of Donald Trump. He’s not much of a businessman. His “competitive advantage” was that he was born into a family already rich enough to pay to rig the system in their favor. And he brags about it.
Trump is now demonstrating he’s not much of a politician either. He can’t win unless the system is rigged in his favor. All his life Trump has paid to rig the system in his favor. Now that he can’t he’s whining about it.
It isn’t like anything that happened in Colorado was a secret or a mystery. All you had to do is go to the state republican party site, click on “about us,” click on “CRC bylaws,” and if you can read you’d have known exactly what was going to take place and how (emphasis mine).
http://cologop.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/CRC-Bylaws-9-26-15.pdf
“ARTICLE XII: PRECINCT CAUCUSES
Section’C. Procedure.
4.b. NO PREFERENCE POLL OF ANY KIND SHALL BE CONDUCTED IF IT DICTATES OR REQUIRES THE BINDING OF DELEGATES to any higher assembly or convention. The participants at each precinct caucus, assembly, or convention of any county or district, alone shall determine if the results of any preference poll are to be a factor in the selection of individual delegates or alternates to any higher assembly or convention, and no candidate for delegate or alternate for any higher assembly or convention shall be compelled or required to identify the candidate he or she is pledged to support, but may do so at his or her option…
ARTICLE!XIII: ASSEMBLIES AND CONVENTIONS
Section A. Selection of National Convention Delegates…”
Everything Trump needed to know to compete is right there. It’s not written in effin’ hieroglyphics. It’s spelled out in plain English. But you see, Trump can’t compete. That’s why he bribes politicians; so he can write the rules so he doesn’t have to.
He’s not a great businessman, he’s not a dealmaker, he’s not the smartest guy in the room with the best mind and the best words who hires all the best people. The Colorado GOP can give Trump nearly a year to figure things out and he can’t make the cut. They can notify him in August 2015 that they won’t be holding any preference polls of any sort (because the RNC changed their rules requiring binding preference polls, and the CO GOP does not bind their delegates hand hasn’t since at least 2003), and craftily “hide” the rules by posting them on the website where a six year old could fine them. Too tricky for Trump, though. Trump just can’t adapt because he wins by corrupting the system. And he’s too old to change now.
These rules weren’t written to favor Cruz or Trump, as Rush points out. They were written to favor Jeb Bush. But the difference is Cruz can figure these things out, and he can win by these rules even when the rules are stacked against him. Trump can’t.
Trump and his Trumptards like Britt think being smarter or working harder than Trump (not hard to do) is cheating. Or, it means Cruz must be “GOPe” or “establishment.” Whatever lie that will work to comfort themselves so they don’t have to face the reality of Donald Trump.
Because if you’re not a member of the cult what Trump’s incompetence in Colorado, among other places, shows you is this. Trump will be a disaster as President. The process in Colorado was written out for him and actually is pretty straightforward. And it was still too hard for Trump to work that system to his advantage. But not Cruz.
Foreign relations, trade negotiations, national security, diplomacy in general is not going to be spelled out for Trump like the Colorado caucus system. The complexities of he international system is not going to be anywhere near as straightforward as what Trump is failing at now. And while the international system is corrupt like the pay-to-play system Trump is used to navigating so he doesn’t have to compete, Trump ain’t anywhere rich enough to bribe his way into the club that rigs that system in their favor.
Nobody cheated Trump in Colorado. Trump doesn’t know how to compete. Cruz does. Trump lost in Colorado because he’s a loser. Deal with it, Trump chumps.