Did Donald Trump just strangle himself with McCain “war hero” comment? (Update)
Will this be remembered as the moment the rise of Trump’s campaign began to slow and the Republican Party began to heal?
When it came to Donald Trump’s comments on violence from illegal immigrants, I argued that it was possible to differentiate between the man (Trump) and the issue. Whether or not you liked the man, he raised a legitimate issue.
Trump in an interview today made a comment about John McCain that is reverberating around the internet:
“He’s a war hero ’cause he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured.”
https://youtu.be/qJ7JlUc82nA?t=1m40s
Now there is no daylight between the man and the issue.
It’s ludicrous to argue that McCain is not worthy of hero status for his service just because he was captured. It’s not like he was Bowe Bergdahl and deserted. McCain was shot down, and famously endured torture in North Vietnamese prison. He also refused release when the North Vietnamese learned he was the son of an Admiral, and sought to score political points.
There were plenty of people just waiting to find an issue to go after Trump. Illegal immigrant violence wasn’t the issue. This may be it.
Is this the end, or at least the beginning of the end of Trump’s rise?
Will this be remembered as the moment the rise of Trump’s campaign began to slow and the Republican Party began to heal?
https://twitter.com/EWErickson/status/622446366657265664
Per aide, @ScottWalker just said: "I just want to be clear, @SenJohnMcCain is an American hero."
— Niels Lesniewski (@nielslesniewski) July 18, 2015
Just told a crowd in Sioux City: @SenJohnMcCain is an American hero
— Scott Walker (@ScottWalker) July 18, 2015
If John McCain saves the GOP by being the iceberg Trump sinks himself on, I am going to laugh a very great deal. https://t.co/Q8KYoQ4y5x
— Rob 'NZ' Neppell (@rneppell) July 18, 2015
Trump, asked if he'll apologize to McCain: "No."
— Stephen Hayes (@stephenfhayes) July 18, 2015
Reminder: The Vietnamese offered to release McCain because he was an admiral’s son. He refused. http://t.co/EIbhZJoMvT
— Allahpundit (@allahpundit) July 18, 2015
https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/622445762258059264
https://twitter.com/AlexPappas/status/622455223517253633
Enough with the slanderous attacks. @SenJohnMcCain and all our veterans – particularly POWs have earned our respect and admiration.
— Jeb Bush (@JebBush) July 18, 2015
I'm repeating myself: TRUMP is a stalking horse for Hillary. His outrageous behavior is planned to ruin/split GOP vote #WAKEUP #mccain #tcot
— Darleen Click #RepealAB5 (mewe.com/i/darleenclick) (@darleenclick) July 18, 2015
My disdain for John McCain is legendary. But attacking a guy who spent 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton on his war record is a bridge too far.
— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) July 18, 2015
Skeptics have been wondering when Trump might go too far. Based on what I'm hearing at #FLS2015 today might have been the day.
— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) July 18, 2015
.@realDonaldTrump's comments today make him unfit to be Commander-in-Chief https://t.co/EVl1X66gHo
— Rick Perry (@GovernorPerry) July 18, 2015
https://twitter.com/straytski/status/622460216425250816
Or will it all just be noise?
#DonaldTrump comment about McCain will hurt him but it's a weekend. Call me cynical but 24 hour news cycle means this will be old by Tues
— Ryan Mauro (@ryanmauro) July 18, 2015
Trump statement on McCain after Trump questioned heroism of POWs. pic.twitter.com/KrFbiOG1yy
— Chris Moody (@moody) July 18, 2015
UPDATE: Leave it to RNC to say something repressive – No room “in this country” for negative comments about John McCain’s war record? You can disagree with the comments, but don’t prove that you are even worse:
.@thehill A sad day for free speech when a major political party says the country has no room for someone's expression.
— Adam Kissel (@AdamKissel) July 18, 2015
Update No. 2 – 8:30 p.m. Eastern, July 19, 2015: Trump is fighting back, and not backing down:
My @USATOpinion piece: "Trump: I don't need to be lectured" http://t.co/luEYQhgrr9
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 20, 2015
I don't agree w/ Trump's comment about McCain's service in the military, but I also don't agree w/the slurs McCain levels at conservatives
— John Hawkins (@johnhawkinsrwn) July 20, 2015
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Comments
Rick Perry has it right.
Damn straight Perry is right. NOBODY who thinks a Vietnam POW is a loser, especially under the conditions McCain was exposed to, should ever be CiC of our military, ESPECIALLY not a draft-dodger like Trump who lied about receiving a high draft number and making NO mention of his 3 student deferments and got his rich daddy to get him a medical deferment after college.
Trump is tight with the Clintons and gave heavily to ‘rats for many years. He only started giving any meaningful amounts to ‘pubs in very recent years. Bubba had Ross Perot, and Hillary and Trump are in it together to give her a win the same way. The man is a proven liar, a noxious gadfly, a duplicitous shill for Hillary and I am sickened by conservatives rah-rahing for this fraud. These people are as a dumb as a bag of hammers to be so blinded to what he’s up to. I am disgusted, and I pray that this major gaffe brings his political demise.
All that said, I strongly dislike John McCain, but he is no coward and no wuss when it comes to defense. I also believe he loves this country, unlike okiller and Hitliary. America, to Trump, is just another piggy bank and he’s the pig.
And yet, Trump IS driving the debate on Illegal Immigration. When one of the OTHER candidates has a press event where they’re on stage with a whole bunch of individuals who have had loved ones raped or murdered by Illegal Aliens, then we can have a discussion about it.
But any Republican that I hear say “comprehensive immigration reform” without immediately preceding or following it with “secure the border first” IMMEDIATELY gets crossed off my voting list. PERIOD.
Then vote for Rick Perry, Chuck. His position is that there will be no discussion on immigration reform until the border is as totally secure as it can be.
This is why Trump has targeted Perry with nasty remarks. Perry is tough on the border yet garnered over 40% of the Hispanic vote in TX. That’s why the libtard Austin prosecutor is trying to take Perry out with his trumped-up charges – a smaller version of the “John Doe” activities in WI. The prosecutor is using his office as a hatchet for the ‘rats because Perry gets the Hispanic vote border enforcer, in large part because he knows how to create jobs, which is what everyone wants. The fact that Perry is popular with Hispanics and yet is tough on the order is a major threat to Trump, so he’s been lashing out at Perry.
Further, Trump’s lashing out at McCain for calling Trump supporters “crazy” shows that he’s as think-skinned, petty and disrespectful of the military as okiller himself is. Trump is another power-hungry elitist. The rubes just don’t see it because he’s the Pied Piper playing a tune they want to hear.
I’m a little more cynical about Gov. Perry’s motives on his demand that Trump withdraw from the Presidential race.
Right now, Gov. Perry is on the bubble as to whether or not he will be invited to participate in the first Presidential Candidate debate. Trump withdrawing gets him significantly closer to a guarantee that he will be on the stage.
[Note: I like Gov. Perry as a Presidential candidate]
I have very little respect for McCain, as he has quite EARNED my disdain over the years with his support for Liberal ideals and his back-stabbing of Conservative causes. Am I the only one who remembers McCain calling the TEA-Partiers “hobbits” during the debt ceiling fight, McCain-Feingold, and the whole “Gang of 14” nonsense, which Harry Reid then used to stab the Republicans in the back by pulling the “nuclear” trigger?
Everyone plays the “war hero” card. We (Republicans) need to say to Sen. McCain: “Thank you for your service, what happened to you was terrible. Now stop being an ass and actually behave like the Conservative you claim to be, rather than the Liberal RINO you’ve been behaving like for your last 3 terms.”
Being a bit cynical to Perry’s motives for as to why he wants Trump to withdraw is irrelevant to the question of which is the better man, the better candidate. Perry’s other motive, or even sole motive, may be that he simply understands immigration far better than Trump does and clearly sees that Trump is driving the disaffected Hispanic vote to the ‘rats such that no ‘pub can win in the general election. Perry is doing exceptionally well in Iowa and of course will do well in South Carolina. I think (I pray) that he’ll make it to the debates.
As an aside, I detest that Trump has used these bereft families to raise his own star. We didn’t hear from him about any of these other death-by-illegals occurring over recent years until he decided to make this run. Haven’t there been similar deaths in NY, for instance? Did he, as a prominent person, go to the governors or the AGs of these states or the mayors of these cities with his outrage about these incidents? WHY DOES HE SUDDENLY CARE? IS HE EVEN TO BE BELIEVED? HE HAS ILLEGALS WORKING FOR HIM.
Not true. Trump wrote a book in 2011. Think the title was “Time To Get Tough.” he has a chapter on illegal aliens which I just read.
Try again.
LOL! Writing “a chapter about illegals” four years ago does not rise to the level of making a major issue of it by haranguing the pols, front and center, who created this problem. Did he approach any governors, mayors, or obastard and get vocal about it? No? Did he even give a press conference to call attention to that chapter? No?
Try again.
Stories of McCain’s “heroism” as a POW are all over the net. Every one I’ve read is based on interviews with McCain himself. Is there any outside confirmation of them?
Given that McCain lies through his teeth about his “conservatism” to the people of Arizona every six years and then shafts them for the next five, it’s entirely possible he lied about the events that took place in Viet Nam.
There’s plenty of outside confirmation that Trump lied about his draft history, lied about his finances and lies about his accomplishments, and he’s the candidate, NOT McCain.
I had an uncle who was a POW. He was a loser, too, according to Trump. Never mind that he went on to become a professor emeritus of science at one of the most prestigious universities of agriculture and husbandry in the country, and did more good by helping people by advancing food production techniques around the world than Trump has ever done for a single living or dead soul.
Well, you just knew it was a matter of time. Being a rich jerk doesn’t get you very far in politics.
Unless you’re a Democrat, of course.
Meh. Inflammatory comments just keep Trump at the top of the news. He’s already backtracked, and now everyone loves John McAmnesty or something?
Seriously.
Linked William: ‘Brilliant! Donald Trump Slams John McCain: He’s No ‘War Hero’ (VIDEO)’.
It’s not that conservatives all of a sudden love McCain. It’s that conservatives appreciate military sacrifices by all people, especially young people such as McCain was at the time he was captured and cannot, in good conscience, brush that away because he became jerk many years later. So did John Glenn. Glenn did much for America, and was a genuine hero. But he, too, became a jerk in later years.
The biggest thing is that Trump spat on all the military with his remark and as, Rick Perry said, is not fit to serve as CiC. We already have a military hater in office. We don’t need another one demonstrating such abject disrespect for military sacrifice and heroism, especially not a draft dodger like Trump. If he wanted to go after McCain’s nasty remark, he should have gone after McCain’s position on immigration and general performance as a senator, NOT his military record, of which he, himself, has none, except his multiple deferments that he forgot to mention when he said he got lucky with a high draft number implying he wasn’t called. He was, in fact, called FOUR times.
The only SOBs out there with equally low standing to even address someone’s military record are okiller and Bubba, both rats, both draft dodgers. See a pattern? Trump is a fraud. he says he loves America, but he never loved it enough to fight for it. WTF makes anyone think he would fight for America as president?
yeah, plenty of reasons to be angry at McCain, last in his class, and other stories of his recklessness seem to have some merit (one plane loss from his error, caused trouble in Spain with his admitted “daredevil clowning”.
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/mccains-plane-crashes/
Trump sort of admits to “maybe he was a hero”, but he clearly has such contempt for the man that he can’t even give him credit for the military part of his career. Why even go there? It demonstrates Trump’s willingness to break PC barriers, but respect for the POW part of a military man is not PC.
Of course the damage McCain does when yielding to Obama on this Iran “treaty” is far greater than the significance of his military time, and McCain leveraged his military record for political gain. But they are still completely distinctive from his time in Vietnam.
(Kerry on the other hand, and his three purple hearts, then lies about American atrocities, might deserve some contempt)
Hopefully the other candidates pick up the “border control and no citizenship for illegals” momentum, and Trump surrenders his poll numbers to Walker, or other non-RINOs.
Trump was responding, in-artfully, to a insipid question. How could Trump call McCain a dummy? I gotta say, Trumps overall assertion rings true with me. McCain is a loser and ran a horrid campaign and should not have been the nominee in 2008. McCain has not served veterans well by his actions. I think it is fair game to be blunt. Trumps’ view of McCain is irrelevant really… and will not matter one bit to the percentage of his supporters at this early stage that are furious about illegal immigration and the GOPe.
sure, and I meant to mention that McCain turned on the tea party and called them whacko birds … but Trump still has to be wise enough to separate out the military part of McCain’s record, especially the serving and staying with his men POW part.
“Blunt” and “stupid” are different things. Maybe Trump didn’t know about the offer for him to get out, but he stayed with his men. It is still stupid to knock men who served. He could just clearly state that serving in war doesn’t make McCain’s politics above reproach, and it is not germane to the discussion.
Listen, Trump insulted every member of the United States military by suggesting that being caught and becoming a POW was somehow dumb of him or made him a loser. Any ONE of our military people can become a victim of war, declared or not, shot to death as we just saw in Chattanooga, captured and beheaded, tortured for years or hanged from a bridge. Are they all stupid? Are they all losers? What of the lives and psyches of other POWs still living? How do you think Trump’s statement sits with them? TRUMP JUST SPAT ALL OVER ALL OF THEM.
Yeah, McCain has become an asshole over the last 25 years. I know because I’ve watched his career. There once was a time when I liked him and respected his opinions. He’s changed for the worse, but NOTHING will ever change what he was fifty years ago and what he sacrificed. That he eventually became an asshole after that is IRRELEVANT to those years. He is a living reminder on what happens to our military when we don’t protect them by not giving them the tools and ROEs they need.
That you agree with a money-grubbing pissant gadfly draft-dodging lying fraud daring to criticize a man who served honorably for even being a POW is disgusting.
McCain called us “crazies.” Trump fired back.
Trump strangled himself to the extent WE think he strangled himself, not entities or people who would never even vote for him.
Considering what Obama, Pelosi and Reid get away with on a daily basis, we’re going to allow our leading candidate to be strangled for ragging on McCain for not being ‘tender’ to McCain’s only claim to fame: being a prisoner of war? — and a pathetic one, at that.
http://www.vvof.org/mccain_hides.htm
If we allow Trump to get ‘strangled,’ we will be doing the work of the democrat party and strangling ourselves.
We should hold our candidate to the standards the democrats hold theirs, and vote the way we want and at our leisure.
If we allow Trump to go down over this, just imagine later if — IF — we can get a candidate to win in 2016 — that then-president GOP will be destroyed by the democrat media in his first month in office.
Most important: the real hero POWs Trump inadvertently insulted all despise McCain. While they all held up in captivity, they saw McCain fold.
McCain was no war hero in captivity. To the contrary, he was a burden to his fellow prisoners and some argue a collaborator.
Next.
Next? Next is he’s not “OUR” leading candidate. Trump is Hillary’s leading candidate.
Disagree.
Everything about Clinton is held together by tape and cheap glue. One ‘spot-on’ comment from Trump (or anyone in the GOP) about the flying obvious of that corrupt, incompetent old crow Clinton and she’ll be put out to the fat ankle farm.
Trump is doing the work the scummy hacks hogging the leadership positions of the GOP won’t do.
Trump has hardly said bupkees about his ol’ pal, Hillary. And he won’t. All he’s trying to do is get enough of you fools to vote for him in the polls so he can get on that stage and lie his ass off about what he’s done and what he will do, just as he’s done his entire life.
Thank you.
You are crazies. The fact that you are supporting a flim-flam man who says what you want to hear, a man whose record you clearly cannot have examined and still be supportive of, proves it. And that’s completely setting aside what he said about POWs.
I despise McCain. He’s everything that’s wrong with the Republican Party, but he always gets a pass thanks to his POW status. He’s a lying hypocrite who cares only for his own fortunes. I held my nose tightly when I voted for him for President; his opponent has made the wisdom of that vote abundantly evident. But I’ll never vote for him again, for anything.
Having said that, his military service was admirable and he deserves our undying respect and gratitude for that service, especially for his grace and courage in captivity.
As a military man, his actions were heroic. As a Senator, he’s been a disgrace. The distinction needs to be made, and Trump stepped in it big time by not doing so.
Gratitude. Not respect.
The respect that McCain earned he has squandered through years of being a RINO, causing immeasurable damage to the Nation by siding with Progressive Marxists and routinely stabbing Conservatives in the back when they attempt to mitigate the nation’s slide into decay.
I have for years called the Sr. Senator from Arid-zona “McAnus”.
I have NO love for the man he’s been for decades.
BUT I can honor a man’s conduct when it was honorable. Guys can compartmentalize.
I think Harry Truman was a worse Collectivist phuc than FDR, but I’d kiss him on both cheeks for having the stones to defeat Japan via use of the A-bomb. (Then I’d kick his ass…)
I mostly agree, but I don’t think gratitude is expressed by not defending the service of a person to whom we are grateful and standing silently while somebody undermines that service by implying they’re a loser for even being a POW in the first place.
McCain has used his POW status in the same way Obama has used his dark skin.
I think it’s undeniable that McCain has advanced himself by using his POW status. But what does that have to do with what Trump said about POWs. He made a general statement about POWS, implying they’re losers and he’s only interested in winners. How about all the other POWs out there? The families of MIAs? How about the five military just shot to death by one of obastard’s brethren in Chattanooga? Are they all losers because they didn’t win, didn’t escape, got trapped? They got trapped and shot to death. So they’re losers, too. Anybody who doesn’t win at a gambit or battle, no matter the odds, no matter how necessary, if they falter in any way, they’re a “loser”. Somebody should ask Trump about his failed marriages and his failed business ventures. Somebody should ask Trump the details of his deferments. Talk about loser.
It’s obvious what Trump meant, and it would do well to lay off of his somewhat sloppy Brooklynese way of expressing himself when in fact his meaning his clear.
John McCain is not a hero “because” he was captured (anyone can be “captured”), but because of the risks he deliberately undertook going into service on behalf of us all, and the suffering he then in fact did endure.
It would be better if our soldiers were not captured. Or injured. Or killed.
We had a candidate for VP–Admiral Stockdale who was a bonafide hero from ‘Nam–something I didn’t know until I saw a documentary on his activities as a POW in the Hanoi Hilton running an intelligence operation.
McCain did his time in hell, but so did every man who was there–and it has allowed him to draw a pass on criticism. This time, he shot off his mouth and one of the targets fired back.
Poor John, he doesn’t know how to react when that happens.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/27/my-father-the-spy-in-the-hanoi-hilton.html
McCain was totally out of line and insulting to the morons who showed up to hear Trump. He shouldn’t have called them “crazies”. He should have just kept his big mouth shut for a change or called Lindsey to vent.
But what people are missing here is that Trump’s remark was disrespectful to all our military. Perry is right. Trump should never be CiC. It doesn’t even matter that it was directed at McCain. He revealed something very onerous about and dark about himself. He clearly thinks that anybody who is captured or killed by the enemy is a loser, and that’s coming from a draft-dodger. So what does that portend for him as a president? Pretty much what we’ve already got – a prissy pissant who refused to serve.
Fuck you, Trump.
I think Donald Douglas (here in the comments section) pretty much put it succinctly enough.
Sen. McCain was a war hero, true enough. Mr. Trump and I don’t have necessarily the same definition of war hero (then again, it would be interesting to hear Mr. Trump further explain himself), but the overall point was, in my view, spot on.
No current politian has moved the political ball forward against Obama.
Further, it’s almost like everyone remotely against The Donald is simply waiting to catch him in any semblance of a stumble as a point to take him out. That makes me wonder what’s so terrible about The Donald?
I think the issue is that Mr. Trump is a man of action, and everyone knows it. Example: Jeb isn’t upset over Trump because of Trump’s words; he’s upset because Trump would show him up over most issues, and Jeb’s way too passive-aggressive on most issues.
With the end of the Obama admin, we need action, not passiveness, to overcome challenges.
There was a lot of “Stories” about McCain’s time in the HH during his run against obama. I do not know the truth and most of you will never know it either. That said, Trump screwed up but not to the degree that is being claimed. If it were anyone else but McCain he probably be done. McCain is so hated in Republican circles including many RINOs that it is hard to insult him or his shady reputation. Randy Cunningham, who was a Viet Nam ace, went to prison for his actions in politics. Is he still a hero? I would say he is but that didn’t keep him out of prison. McCain’s actions in the Keating Five should have landed him in jail but it didn’t. Is he still a hero? I wouldn’t have gone there myself and neither should have Trump.
Trump insulted all of our military by suggesting that becoming a POW in the line of duty makes that person a loser. It wouldn’t matter who he said it about. He, himself, is a draft-dodger.
It’s time for the media to start examining and publicizing Trump’s deferment history.
No matter the speculation about whether or not McCain was a collaborator while in captivity, or whether he was in any way responsible for the Forrestal disaster, or that he was last in his class at the Naval Academy, or that he was a reckless pilot who lost multiple aircraft. He repeatedly put his life on the line in service to his country and suffered severely at the hands of the North Vietnamese. Grant him his due for that; someone who did not serve should not be attacking his service. What came with his political career is completely separate. Shameful, but separate.
I don’t want the Republican party to “heal”. It is NOT representing conservative, common sense majority of Americans or their constituents. Rs WANT big government, to stay in power, are enabling EVERYTHING O-regime does. McCain is fully in that club.
I have no problems with what Mr. Trump said. I’m sure he’ll say other ‘offensive’ stuff. SO WHAT. USA needs a FIGHTER. The Washington cabal (to use Cruz’ word) must be dissolved and a Trump presidency could make a start on doing just that.
NO more Clinton, Bush or establishment oligarchy picks.
Go Donald.
How is the Donald not a member of the oligarchy?
I have never met anyone involved in urban real estate development who was not a corrupt insider. Few things get built in modern blue state America without the correct hands getting crossed with gold in some form or another. As with so much that ails the American economy these days, the quid pro quo system between government and business dominates these deals. I’ve looked in detail at the books. The accounting on urban real estate deals is as hinky as Hollywood accounting, which no movie, no matter how many tickets get sold, ever seems to make a net profit. From overpriced insurance purchased through the agency of wife of the Alderman in control of zoning to a kickback on every condo sold, everyone in the in group gets a generous cut and the ordinary citizen gets screwed.
For the record I think it IS completely crazy for people to be flocking to the Donald. He has taken a vocal position on a single issue. Show me the evidence of any interest or activism on this issue in his past? And where is the record that says he can back up his rhetoric with action?
Wise up. A lot of well meaning people are being played by a shrewd manipulator with the agenda of a proven attention whore. Donald Trump is not the solution. In fact he embodies two of biggest problems in the country today- crony capitalism and celebrity culture.
The loonies on the left have their fake woman in Bruce Jenner and the loonies on the right have their fake reformer in Donald Trump.
An absolutely stellar post, NC Mtn Girl! 🙂
Post of the week, AFAIC.
Trump wrote a book in 2011 “Time to Get Tough” and discussed illegal aliens and other issues facing the country.
Obama’s big claim to fame was book writing, and Cruz et al. have done the same thing.
BFD
I’ve always found McCain to be a grandstanding male chauvinist swine with a monumental sense of entitlement. But for someone who found reasons not to serve in Vietnam to attack him on these ground is way too much for me.
I met McCain back in ’96 around the time of his 60th birthday and my first reaction was that he looked and moved far, far older than his years. His hands in particular were gnarled like those of an octogenarian. That seems yo be a direct result of his experience as a POW.
I find Trump’s comments are almost as odious as those of Obama’s idiotic minions back in 2008. They tried to make McCain look stupid because he doesn’t rely much on e-mail. It turned out that as early as 2000 Forbes magazine noted that McCain has limited abilities with keyboards because of crippling arthritis related to injuries suffered when a POW.
“I don’t want the Republican party to “heal”.” Neither do I.
I think Trump in this case is using the term *captured* metaphorically, meaning, someone who is dependent rather than independent. A POW is a dependent, which is not to disparage one for that condition. Trump I think is implying that McCain, today and for long, depends on persons he would best not. He is saying McCain is owned and someone who is not owned — e.g., Trump — is better suited to high national responsibility than someone who is owned. That is the truth we see confirmed at least hourly at the White House.
As others have pointed out here, salivating for the chance to say Trump has done himself in is unbecoming. It is low.
Standing beside all of that is this: John McCain has harmed his country in civilian service more than he helped his country in military service.
Complete hogwash. All of it.
McCain referred to the 20,000 people who showed up to listen to Trump speak in Phoenix and all of Trump’s supporters as “the crazies”. McCain, directly, insulted a lot of people whose votes he would like to have.
Trump retaliated by insulting one man, McCain. The candidates and the media know that Trump’s jab was intended for McCain only, but that is not stopping them from asserting he disparaged all POWs. It makes them look smaller for making the assertion, but they’ll get away with it.
So, the facts are that McCain violated a cardinal rule of politics by insulting the voters. A lot of voters. In his own home state. Where he is running for re-election. By rites, he’s the one who should be done. Trump insulted one voter. McCain. And it was a retaliatory shot after McCain threw the first punch with his “crazies” line.
But the media and the other GOPers have been trying to push Trump off the stage for a month now. This may be enough to give him the final heave, but it’s not justified based purely on the merits, IMO.
So in 2015 America it is now OK for one wrong is to be answered by a another wrong?
Not really “OK”, but understandable. This is politics. People have done far worse things than make a one off disparaging remark about a Senator’s military service from 45 years ago.
I’m just analyzing it as I see it. I see this as sort of Todd Akin redux. Akin made a dumb comment after winning the GOP primary and the media and leftsphere ginned it up into a firestorm for their political gain. Then the GOP establishment who did not like Akin saw an opportunity to try to force him out for someone more to their liking. The GOP establishment actively participated in turning Akin into a public scourge. But he refused to be bullied and so he did not take himself out of the race. Why should he? He won the primary. McCaskill coasted to an easy win. Maybe she would have won anyway. But the GOP establishment did everything in its power to push him out and in the process contributed to making him unelectable.
Now none of the good and beautiful establishment people in either party like Trump. The good and beautiful people have donated hundreds of millions to other GOP candidates, and to Hillary. They don’t like it that an electoral neophyte like Trump is leading in a couple of polls. They want him gone. So the candidates they’ve donated millions to are trying to turn Trump into a scourge and force him out. Like Akin, Trump may not go. He has infinite money, a huge ego, and he doesn’t like being bullied. I don’t know if it is legal for him to go third party, but if he can then it would not surprise me if he does (I wonder the same thing about Bernie Saunders). If he went third party, he’d probably siphon off at least 10-20% of the Republican vote and ensure Hillary wins (unless Bernie also goes third party, then it will be interesting).
You can’t be serious. Trump insulted every soldier who has ever been captured, whether they were held and tortured such as McCain was, or beheaded, hanged from a bridge, or released.
Where they all cowards or losers? The coward in this is Trump, who also “acted stupidly” by even going there, given his deferment history and him implying he was never called even though he actually was.
A brutal riposte to McCain was warranted, as it usually is, but the target should have been McCains’ political record, not his military record with the obvious implication that anybody who gets captured is a loser or coward.
Looks like the RNC has decided to openly conspire with Democrats. It tweeted there is “no place” for Trump in the party. Seems like an invitation for Trump to go third party, split the Republican vote, and ensure Hillary wins.
https://twitter.com/seanspicer/status/622465254300209152
Let’s hope Trump doesn’t do that. Perot’s split of the vote was sickening.
theres a lot of info still restricted so we cannot see it but theres a lot to his torture and captivity that doesn’t add up.
find and read McCain and the POW over-up by Sydney H Schandberg as well as JOHN McCAIN THE MOST FLAWED PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN HISTORY by Roland C. Eyears
also
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/was-rambo-right/
and
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/silent-treatment/
stuff just doesn’t seem right.
and I may be wrong.
I made my own post below that is hardly hagiographic of McCain.
But McCain’s inability to comb his own hair, because the torture that the animals in Hanoi inflicted upon him, dislocating both arm sockets, is fake?
easily could have been an ejection issue but since the info won’t get released we’ll never know.
all we have to go on is his word and a media that liked to make him into a hero for some reason.
there are enough oddities that I just do not know what the truth is.
If you were to (1) reach down with both hands between your legs and pull an ejection cable, or (2) be hung by your wrists with your arms behind you, which event would you think more likely to cause permanent arm dysfunction?
Ejection injuries, when they occur, are usually in the spine, from the violence of the seat acceleration. Usually.
Hanging from your wrists with your arms behind you…
I’d suggest the lasting effect of Trump’s comment will have more to do with the size and timing of the next major news story than anything else, e.g. had the Chattanooga shootings not occurred, the Planned Parenthood story might have gotten some traction. As it is, the PP story is off the radar for now.
Trump is a buffoon, and nobody should waste their time defending him. What Next? I suppose he’ll insult the 4 marines and now 1 sailor who were killed in Chattanooga.
“They’re war heroes ’cause they were killed. I like people that weren’t killed.”
Everybody in the military knows you can become a POW through no fault of your own. Random chance can render you hors de combat.
One of the instructors at FASOTRAGRUPAC where I went for SERE was Doug Hegdahl. Unfortunately he was on vacation when I was there. But anybody who knows his story knows he was a hero. He as blown off his ship by the muzzle blast of a 5 inch gun into the Gulf of Tonkin and eventually wound up in North Vietnamese hands. An enlisted sailor, he was able to convince his captors he was so low on the totem pole he had no information of value, and so incredibly stupid he not only couldn’t read or write, he couldn’t even learn to read or write. At first they doubted his story about getting blown off his ship but he played his role so convincingly they gave up on him as completely useless to them, gave him a broom, and let him roam the compound freely. So he was able to memorize the names of 250 of his fellow POWs, memorize the route from the Hilton to Hanoi, and sabotage some trucks. All the POWs including McCain had made a pact that nobody would accept early release; they would go together or not at all. But when the North Vietnamese offered Hegdahl early release they all agreed he should be the exception. He could tell the government the names of 250 men who were still alive. Some of those men had been written off as KIA, and the North Vietnamese could kill them with impunity. Hegdahl didn’t want to leave the others behind, he was ordered to go, and by doing so he saved lives. Now the Vietnamese couldn’t kill anybody on his list. He also confronted the Vietnamese at the Paris peace conference and was able to give first hand accounts of their torture, brutality, and deprivations.
I didn’t meet him, but I’ve met others. They’re heroes. The R in SERE stands for resistance. I’ve always wondered if I could resist my torturous interrogations as well as they did.
Trump is a draft dodging jerk who has no clue about what he’s talking about. Don’t make the mistake of defending him. This won’t be the last time he shoots off his mouth and demonstrates those qualities.
Have you noticed that you are using the same tactic as the worst of the Democratic talking heads at MSNBC?
Not content with discussing what actually happened, you are making stuff up. I got to your second sentence, and quit.
I didn’t make a thing up. That’s the only larger insult Trump could have made about members of the armed forces.
By implication, Trump’s remarks DO extend to the military killed in Chattanooga. They were caught off guard with no weapons and shot to death. In essence, they were captured. They just weren’t imprisoned because they were shot to death by an enemy combatant let loose in this country through immigration.
If Trump had more firing brain cells than he has ego, he would have focused his remarks on the terrorist aspect of immigration instead of taking shots at POWs. What a colossal asshole he is.
Haven’t we had enough of arrogant, ignorant, loud-mouthed narcissists yet?
I don’t think even that idiot Pete McCloskey would have disparaged a POW.
John McCain, a Geneva Convention qualified POW in a prison run by those without an ounce of civilization, was an honorable man. But a hero? He had a choice between honor and dishonor. By choosing honor, that made him a hero?
Sorry, Trump is right, albeit “insensitive”.
And since McCain came back, as a Senator, he is a very unpleasant man, to a great extent riding on his time in Hanoi.
McCain’s honor more than came into question during the Keating scandals.
Pardon my quoting the Vatican Marxist, but who am I to judge? I’ve never been physically tortured [divorce doesn’t count]. I am not going to judge a man subjected to years of the real thing.
I am drawing a distinction between honor and heroism.
I’m really tired of Republicans allowing John McCain to wear his military service as a Teflon armor for his political career. It shouldn’t give him a lifetime pass to eff up everything he touches as a politician. But it always has and still does. While I personally admire McCain’s naval service and yet despise his political career, it bothers me not a bit if Trump is unimpressed by any or all aspects of John McCain. If what Trump thinks of McCain is some kind of litmus test for you, you’d might as well ask all fifteen candidates to hike up their pant legs and pick your winner based upon the color of their socks. That’s pretty much how we ended up with Barack Obama.
FrankNatoli, people who know better gave him a Silver Star and a Legion of Merit with combat V for his service as a POW. That doesn’t make him a hero. That recognizes his heroism.
I don’t think that a Nancy Boy like Little Donald should be defining hero. Four deferments and a medical……no cajones?
“…it bothers me not a bit if Trump is unimpressed by any or all aspects of John McCain…”
Merlin, Trump insulted all POWs. Not just McCain.
“…I like people that weren’t captured.”
McCain is a jerk, too. He’s a jerk, though, with an outstanding military record. Trump is a jerk without even a substandard military record.
If McCain violated one cardinal rule by insulting the voters, Trump violated another by insulting a group of people current and former members of the armed forces, and their families and friends, hold in high esteem.
And he directly insulted several thousand surviving former POWs directly.
No, Trump rather inartfully insulted John McCain. Nothing more. Attempting to extrapolate the insult to include others is quite a stretch unless you’re actually looking to be offended. That’s a prime offensive tactic of the left that they have elevated to an art form. They’re both big boys who can trade barbs without all the Hatfields and all the McCoys having to get their collective undies in a bunch. Rustle up some popcorn and enjoy the show!
Uh, no, you’re wrong. He insulted McCain for belonging to a certain group of people. Trump admires a different group of people.
“I like people that weren’t captured.”
This is what Trump’s statement means in plain English. Ace, at least gets it. By “inartfully” attempting to insult McCain, Trump managed to insult a great many people.
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=357955
” Trump’s comment doesn’t just target McCain — who I don’t care about — but all POWs. “I prefer the guys who don’t get captured” — oh, so those lousy POWs are incompetents and not classy and deserve their captivity because they were just too dumb not be superheroes, I guess?
So while I won’t flip out about this and claim it’s instantly disqualifying, it is deeply dumb and deeply offensive to many. Deeply impolitic — and, if there’s such a thing, deeply thoughtless.”
There is no other way to take those words except as an insult to all those “losers” who became POWs. Except if for some reason one wants to be deliberately obtuse.
It doesn’t matter if you call Trump’s words inartful, deeply dumb, deeply offensive, or deeply impolitic. They were deeply thoughtless. And they are indefensible. And he will do it again, because the man himself is deeply thoughtless.
You are wasting your time defending a man who insults POWs. All POWs. He’s going to continue doubling down on stupid.
“I like people that weren’t captured.”
Merlin, Trump was talking about people, the plural of person.
NOUN
1. human beings in general or considered collectively:
In plain English that means Trump does not like or respect (this immediately followed his statement that McCain is a loser) people who do not fall into that category.
People who were captured.
To insist he was talking about McCain and only McCain means you don’t understand English.
Why did McCain sabotage the POW/MIA hearing that advocates fought years to make happen?
Nobody could argue that Col. Bud Day wasn’t a hero. He had over 70 medals from his service in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. He was also McCain’s cellmate as a POW. He knows what heroism looks like. He said McCain was a hero. That settles the matter, anonymous denizens of the internet notwithstanding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfyGdG9llSE
“Col. Bud Day, POW cellmate of Sen. John McCain in Vietnam, speaks out on the character and heroism of the man who must be elected the next President of the United States.”
You couldn’t pay the man for that kind of endorsement. Col. Day also appeared in ads with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth comparing John Kerry to Benedict Arnold (a comparison that continues to be apt considering his betrayal of the US at the negotiating table where he strengthened and emboldened our sworn enemy Iran).
This doesn’t mean McCain hasn’t been a disgrace as a Senator. Not only for his disdain for the base and being two faced on amnesty. I hold him responsible for several disastrous Navy procurement programs. He puts on this big show, reading the riot act at DoD officials he hauls in to testify before his committee, venting his anger over programs being over budget, over time, and ultimately delivering a lousy product (LCS, to cite but one example). Buat as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, the blame falls on him. They occurred on his watch, and he was responsible for approving the nominations of every single military and civilian official who failed to deliver. Not once has he ever held anyone responsible.
I also blame him for Kerry. Now he’s complaining that Kerry is an incompetent living in an alternate universe. McCain is just figuring this out now? Kerry is the same incompetent who was living in the same alternate universe all those decades they were in the Senate together. All those years they were on the Senate Foreign affairs committee.
That alternate universe is that of the anti-American left where imperialistic, capitalistic, militaristic America is the source of all evil in the world, and we need to make amends to the aggrieved “other.” Most recently Iran.
And McCain voted to confirm him as SecState. Twice. Once in committee and once on the Senate Floor.
I have no idea what Bud Day thought about his former cellmate praising and voting to confirm this modern day Benedict Arnold as Secretary of State. He was then very ill, and only lived a few more months. Perhaps the disappointment contributed to his demise.
He was being way too generous.
Fellow POW’s say John McCain Was a Coward and a Traitor in Viet Nam:
http://polidics.com/ethics/fellow-pows-say-john-mccain-was-a-coward-and-a-traitor-in-viet-nam.html
That link only contains an unsupported smear.
“Fellow POW’s are sure the reason is he was a coward and a traitor as a POW in Viet Nam and it would ruin his political career if this were ever to find its way to the main stream media. They have put together eye witness accounts that describe McCain’s traitorous actions during his time as a prisoner in Viet Nam by his fellow prisoners. Former Senators, Governors and political records flat out nail John McCain as a scared little man on the run from a history of lies and deceit.”
There is no evidence for any of this. Neither of the two links to any purported evidence work.
Moreover, that link contains a still of a CPL Bob Dumas, USA (Ret). If he’s supposed to be one of the eyewitnesses to McCain’s “cowardly” and “traitorous” behavior, and you believe the story, you have been well and truly had.
He appears to be a fraud.
He’s not on the list of POWs who came home alive. Since he clearly lived into his old age, he was never a POW in Vietnam.
http://www.homeofheroes.com/valor/09_POWs/pow_rvn_detail.html
There’s a Duart, a Dudman, and two POWs named Dunn. No Dumas.
On the other hand, George Everett “Bud” Day is on the list. He also was indisputably McCain’s cellmate, and he’s on tape testifying to McCain’s heroism.
You can believe just some guy on the internet, taking the word of an apparent fraud if you like. Me, I’ll take COL. Day’s word over that any time.
Donald Trump is getting his material from jokes Democrat Al Franken told 15 years ago.
Donald Trump Uses Old Al Franken POW Joke About John McCain
Franken 15 years ago: “I don’t buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured.”
So there’s that. FWIW.
Heh. Franken was certainly prescient when it came to Beau Bergdahl.
That’s a good catch, Amy. The full quote from Franken was:
“I doubt I could cross the line and vote Republican. I have tremendous respect for McCain but I don’t buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured. I thought the idea was to capture them. As far as I’m concerned he sat out the war.”
You see, it’s impossible to insult McCain individually for being a POW without insulting all POWs. According to Franken if you’re a POW you sit out the war. According to Trump, if you’re captured you are somehow a loser complicit in your capture.
This is a monumentally stupid way to think or speak. The services haven’t instituted their various Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape to train people in high risk jobs to deal with evading capture, and withstanding the ordeals of imprisonment, because POWs are stupid blunderers, and they’ll just get to sit out the war.
And as I mentioned earlier, if you follow Trump’s logic you arrive here.
https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog
“David Burge retweeted
Tom Garrett @TheAxisOfEgo 11h11 hours ago
@iowahawkblog @thevoluntariat Why do we even celebrate Memorial Day? A lot of those guys just died. Winners survive. #TrumpLogic”
Yes, I know. Trump hasn’t said that. Yet. But as one commentator noted recently, trying to clean up Trump’s verbal messes is like trying to clean up after a dog with diarrhea.
You Trump fans will learn the pointlessness of it all. Some of you.
Trump saying McCain is not a hero and that Trump likes people who were not captured.
Also called McCain a loser.
That coming from a loser who sat at home during the war.
Trump who has given thousands of dollars to Hillary and the Clinton foundation along with other liberal Democrats is telling.
Have said, Trump will be chewed up in the first debate if he lasts that long until next month.
I hope the SOB gets struck by lightning very soon. Like, in an hour.
Read the following 87 worst quotes of Obama, then get a some perspective on the Trump/McCain hysteria and kill the Trump goose that has otherwise been laying golden eggs:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2942427/posts
Screw McCain. Say, where were all you McCain pity-ers when Vietnam War flying ace Randall Cunningham was sent to prison?
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/duke-cunningham-prison/2013/06/04/id/507858/
Randy Cunningham is a highly decorated Naval aviator, by all accounts an aggressive pilot, and a disgraced Congressman and a convicted felon.
Richard Marcinko is a highly decorated Navy SEAL, by all accounts a fierce warrior, was an outstanding commanding officer, and a convicted felon.
Senator McCain is a highly decorated Naval aviator, by all accounts an aggressive aviator who earned the Distinguished Flying Cross for his piloting skills (which is no small trinket), and a jerk and an embarrassment as a Senator.
Jesse Ventura qualified as a SEAL (No hair splitting about UDT vs. SEAL, the SEALs don’t care so nobody else should. The SEAL database goes back to 1942. If you’re in the database you can call yourself a SEAL. If a WWII frogman wants to say he was a SEAL because people know what that is, and he doesn’t want to explain what a frogman was, that’s fine with the SEALs.) He didn’t do much else as a SEAL, but he qualified so his peers respect him for that. And he turned out to be a jerk and an embarrassment.
Trump is a jerk and an embarrassment without the others’ achievements.
So what’s your point?
so how does the party heal from McCain calling 30% of the voters crazy ? maybe McCain should STFU …
McCain isn’t running, so you’re completely off point. What we have is a draft dodger calling all POWs losers for being captured. It’s a gross insult to all the military, including the five just killed in Chattanooga.
This isn’t even about McCain. It’s about what kind of man Trump is. Only a coward with five deferments would think that people who fight for the country are losers.
No, that’s not what we have. Trump has been misquoted which looks like it’s going to be a feature of the LSM when Trump is discussed.
IMO, he is deliberately crafting his remarks to bait the media ‘stars’ and they are dumb enough to grab the bait. I find this highly amusing and BTW, McSlime is an azz.
He said it, platypus. I can’t believe you’re buying the spin. I don’t know what media stars you’re talking about, but if you mean the other candidates, they’re giving minimal commentary when asked, which is smart. Trump buried himself with his remark, and you never stop your opponent from digging.
When a man throws bombs to get attention, which is Trump’s M.O., there’s a problem with the man. How you or any other regulars here can take him seriously is just mind boggling.
Sharyl Attkisson does a truth check on the stories. Trump did call him a war hero. Seriously.
https://sharylattkisson.com/fact-check-the-washington-post-on-donald-trump-and-john-mccain/
Did Trump strangle his campaign? Unlikely. He was never a serious candidate to begin with but the press loves him (especially if they can convince people that he’s the true face of the Republican party).
Prediction: Trump will continue to get lots of attention and to say stupid things. He will also continue not to be a serious candidate.
The charlatan has growing support among the stupid and the blind, as did obastard. If he runs 3rd party, it’ll be President Hillary or President Democrat.
“Did Trump strangle his campaign? Unlikely…..
I think he strangled it, and strangled it a purpose.
1 I don’t think Trump is stupid. You do not get to be a billionaire by being stupid.
2 With the last few polls, Trump found himself becoming one of the top tier candidates with a significant % of the population.
3 Agreeing with the point that Trump has never been a ‘serious’ candidate (I think all this has ever been since his first running for prez was a self promotion advertising campaign) he found that he may have come close to painting himself into a corner so he couldn’t pull the plug on the campaign.
4 He decided to do something that looks stupid, so that, in awhile, he can use this to bug out….again.
I thank McCain for his service and blow him a Bronx cheer for refusing to go up against Obama in 2007; refusing to let his VP tackle Obama head on, as she’d begun to do; refusing to honor our national sovereignty wrt illegal aliens; slandering patriotic Americans as “crazies”.
McCain is not the only patriot who is willing to go the extra mile for his country. He wants respect, well, let him hand it out instead of making offensive remarks.
As for Trump, apologize to those who served and are serving even as you remind everyone how badly McCain the senator has served the American people.
In other words, Trump didn’t say what the media claims he said. All this is being brewed up by the lying media.
Yet for some reason, people who KNOW the media will lie and they KNOW the media has no love for Trump OR Republicans, somehow NOW they’re willing to believe whatever the media tells them was said.
This is so pathetic. And what’s worse it’s over a guy that whatever his military record has been a thorn in the side of this country and conservatives.
If this ruins Trump then I wash my hands of all these whiners who allowed the media to manipulate the polity and that they allowed because it would ruin their only competition.
There are no statesmen in the Republican party.
“Statesmen?” Aside from a handful of conservatives, there are not even any “men.”
Yes, that’s Planned Parenthood’s attempt at spin, too. That Nucatola didn’t say what the tape clearly shows she said.
Good luck with that. It’s not working for Planned Parenthood or Dr. Nucatola, either.
Yep. It’s disgusting to watch conservatives fall for this crap all over again, especially such a charlatan and a fraud. The Almighty Stupid are going to hang us again. Now, acting EXACTLY like the left, they’re “nuancing” his words and claiming he didn’t say what he said.
Trump is a draft dodger who lied by omission about his draft history and now vaguely doesn’t exactly remember what his medical deferment was for??????? Bone spur on his foot? Really? If he had a legitimate medical condition, why wouldn’t he just have sought that deferment to begin with instead of using FOUR student deferments and THEN getting a medical deferment right AFTER college? And he wasn’t at Wharton when his number was called up. He’d been graduated and out for 18 months.
Here are his Selective Service records:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/celebrity/deferments-helped-trump-dodge-vietnam
He’s also been married too many times and sued way too many people to be considered a stable, straight-shooter. He’s also filed corporate bankruptcy (Ch. 11) 4 times and is real big on rolling the dice with other people’s money, leaving them holding the bag, with his ever-decreasing skin in the game. And he’s lying about his net worth by double what it really is, which is a $4+ BBILLION exaggeration. Why does anybody suppose he rushed to get his financials into the feds for the candidacy? He’s leaning on a lie to make himself look like a better businessman than he is. He’s just another egomaniacal, money-grubbing, power-grabbing elitist. Why anybody would consider putting him in a position of public trust and letting him get his hands on public monies is just beyond me. Oh, yeah, because he said what they wanted to hear about illegals. He’s hustling us just like he did his investors of the past and present.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2011/04/29/fourth-times-a-charm-how-donald-trump-made-bankruptcy-work-for-him/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erincarlyle/2015/06/16/trump-exaggerating-his-net-worth-by-100-in-presidential-bid/
No wonder conservatives in this country are considered stupid. We are. This asshole should be sent packing NOW. Instead, I come on one of the most intelligent conservative blogs out there and find what I thought were sharp people rallying for this fraud.
God help us.
We need to realize that facts don’t matter to Trump’s fans. Just as they don’t matter to Trump.
We need to remember that TheFineReport.com linked to this site as if it would destroy McCain’s reputation as a hero during his captivity.
http://polidics.com/ethics/fellow-pows-say-john-mccain-was-a-coward-and-a-traitor-in-viet-nam.html
Some guy on the internet promised this:
“Why?
Fellow POW’s are sure the reason is he was a coward and a traitor as a POW in Viet Nam and it would ruin his political career if this were ever to find its way to the main stream media. They have put together eye witness accounts that describe McCain’s traitorous actions during his time as a prisoner in Viet Nam by his fellow prisoners. Former Senators, Governors and political records flat out nail John McCain as a scared little man on the run from a history of lies and deceit.”
And delivers nothing. This guy on the internet doesn’t name a single eyewitness and the embedded links to other sites don’t work.
The videos work, and guess what? Not one eyewitness who was a POW with McCain appears in those videos. Just more people who weren’t there repeating second or third hand rumors.
Meanwhile COL Bud Day, McCain’s cellmate, at the Plantation and later the Hanoi Hilton said McCain is a hero. That he never saw any deficiencies.
VADM James Stockdale is a bonafide hero. He was awarded the Medal of Honor for his service as a POW. The story can now be told. He didn’t just serve as SRO or help set up the communications system between prisoners (John McCain got a bronze star for his contribution to that system). He ran an espionage organization that got information all the was back to the CIA in Washington. The link is in one of the older comments.
Here’s what Admiral Stockdale had to say about McCain, originally published in the New York Times.
http://www.miafacts.org/mccain_2.htm
“November 26, 1999
John McCain in the Crucible
By JAMES B. STOCKDALE
CORONADO, Calif. — I am not surprised by reports that Senator John McCain’s political enemies have been spreading rumors that his famous temper is a sign of a broader “instability” caused by his imprisonment in Vietnam.
In fact, a few weeks ago I received a call from an old friend who is also close to the George W. Bush campaign soliciting comments on Mr. McCain’s “weaknesses.” As I told that caller, I think John McCain is solid as a rock.
And I consider it blasphemy to smudge the straight-arrow prisoner-of-war record of a man who was near death when he arrived at Hoa Loa prison 1967: both arms broken, left leg broken, left shoulder broken by a civilian with a rifle butt.
…There was a special cramped and hot privy-like structure in that Hanoi prison reserved for whichever American was causing the Vietnamese the most trouble. I was the first in the camp to be locked up in it, and I gave it the name Calcutta.
There was only room for one person at a time in the cage, and after a couple of months I was taken out and marched back to a regular cell. As I limped along, I sneaked a peek at my replacement: John McCain, hobbling along on his own bad leg…”
Now, those videos have people who say a lot of terrible things about John McCain as a Senator. That, I can believe. I despise Senator McCain.
But I have never heard a former POW, VADM Stockdale, his cellmate, or any of several naval aviators I’ve been privileged to meet who were imprisoned at the same time and place as McCain, say anything negative about McCain as a POW.
If McCain had been a coward and a traitor as a POW, the same thing would have happened to him as to Kerry. He’d have been “Swiftboated.” Which is of course the Democrats sneer toward people who come forward and expose the lies you’re telling about your past.
As in, Sinbad the comedian and CBS news swiftboated Hillary Clinton when she claimed she landed under sniper fire at the Tuzla airport.
It never happened. Instead his fellow POWs either supported him or didn’t endorse him. But they never accused him making up anything about his time as a POW.
I’m starting to think these Trump supporters are the same dumbasses who supported Ron Paul and stayed home on election day pouting because the psycho didn’t get the nomination.
Trump won’t get the nomination but he very well may mount a 3rd party run aimed at these same idiots which will throw the election to the ‘rats….AGAIN!
You just can’t fix STUPID.
On a positive note, you won’t be getting any begging-for-funds letters from Trump.
I wouldn’t bet the farm on that. When he gets solid support in addition to the bunch of morons following this Pied Piper to political oblivion, he’ll start tapping them for it. He’s really, really big on using Other People’s Money.
Nobody is being manipulated. Trump, a “man” who got five deferments, the last one of which was a medical deferment, which he vaguely stated he though might have been a bone spur on his heel but it’s actually a birthmark on both heels, suggested that American POWs are losers for being captured. And THAT’S who you people are defending to become commander-in-chief of our military? You cannot possibly be serious. You’re following a Pied Piper playing a tune you like to hear. He’s never been serious in the past. Trump has always done what is best for Trump and doesn’t have an altruistic bone in his body – pure ego. He’s a charlatan and is toying with conservatives in this country. Que bono? Hillary, his good buddy of many years.
It is important to remember that General Arnold was a revolutionary war hero before he became infamous as Benedict Arnold the traitor.
McCain was a genuine hero in the 60s. That was then and this is now and we have a very fickle foul tempered old coot.
Agree! Whatever Sen. McCain might have been 45 years ago, he has , in my opinion, been an intellectual coward and turncoat for at least the past decade. Should have been removed from his comfy chair years ago.
Okay, fine. Agreed. So what? Can you not focus on what this incident says about Trump as a potential commander-in-chief, not McCain as a senator? Nobody disagrees with what’s been said about McCain, and that point has been beaten to death into French horsemeat. But you people keep falling for those who want you to focus on McCain, not Trump. It’s a diversion, “Don’t look at that, look here instead”, as they try to change or “nuance’ what he said. “He didn’t say that.” Yes, he did, and it revealed a great deal about his priorities and way of looking at people. It showed his carelessness and callousness, his elitism, and a major flaw in his character.
Quit falling for it. Trump’s remark specifically encompassed all POWS, MIAs and the military in general because any one of them can be captured – or shot to death by the enemy as losers. Trump only wants “winners.” Were the five shot to death in Chattanooga last week losers, too?
“Will this be remembered as the moment the rise of Trump’s campaign began to slow and the Republican Party began to heal?”
Congratulations! You have won the internet.
The following was a close second.
“If John McCain saves the GOP by being the iceberg Trump sinks himself on, I am going to laugh a very great deal.”
Trump is right on.
The admiral daddy’s little boy, McShame, should never been a pilot.
He wrecked 3 of America’s fighter jets, and because of his parents legacy cost America million$, including his free education which he didn’t deserve.
Hero my potootie. The man is a undocumented dimocrat, a screw up living on his daddy’s name and his wife’s fortune, with the ethics of a snake.
He’s been in government employ his entire life. Any of you McShame supporters that think our country is better off with him having been on the public dole for 50 years or so, are dumb.
Trump wasn’t right on, and neither are you. McCain didn’t wreck three planes. He did wreck one, during in advanced jet training trying to get aboard the carrier. He claimed it was engine failure, but the Navy investigation found the engine hadn’t failed and the instruments showed McCain failed to pay attention to his altitude and speed. The Navy blamed McCain for that.
The term for the other two aircraft is lost. He lost one aircraft to engine failure. The Navy never blames the pilot for that. My squadron lost several F-14s due to engine failure in the 90s (the F-14 never had the engines it should have had until the D version) and not once did the investigators attribute the cause of the mishap to pilot error.
He lost another in combat over Hanoi. And McCain was awarded a Distinguished Flying Cross for losing that plane, because even after he was hit he continued his bombing run, only ejecting after he put bombs on target.
Only an amateur like you in a political peeing contest would say he wrecked three aircraft. One thing is certain; you wouldn’t have had the stones to do what he did over Hanoi.
A reporter invited Trump to walk back his comments about McCain not being a hero by asking if the circumstances of McCain’s imprisonment would change his opinion, Trump declared the facts concerning McCain’s capture and imprisonment “irrelevant.”
It’s only fitting that since the facts don’t matter to Trump that the facts don’t matter to his fan boys.
Trump got out of service altogether with an RBSP-1 deferment – RichBoySonPayoff 1st class.
You are the epitome of ignorance AND stupidity. Ignorant because you have no idea what you’re talking about and have done no research to inform your ignorant opinion. You are stupid to even be focusing on McCain because the slur was against all POWs, MIAs and military people. Thus, this incident is about what kind of man Donald trump really is. HE IS THE CANDIDATE, not John McCain.
You should be ashamed to defend a somebody who would say this, but you’re not, and that’s because you’re blinded by your emotional need to believe in somebody, no matter if they’re a proven liar, fraud and charlatan. Donald Trump is the Al Sharpton of the Right now because of gullible fools like you.
DUH! Hell, double DUH!
Currently, I support Trump, which this early, is fluid. That said, one reason citizens like Trump, is that he doesn’t do “political speak.” When you aren’t handcuffed into a tiny box by political correctness, you’re liable to say things not entirely positive, or wrong.
We are all wrong from time to time. If you’re an adult, you factor that in, determine the level of the importance of the particular incorrect statement, and adjust, if at all, accordingly.
Trump acts like an American should act: He puts Americans first. If he hurts John McCain’s feelings, well John McCain has hurt my feelings, as well as put Americans second, third, fourth, etc.
Go Trump!
This is about Trump and what kind of man he is. He didn’t serve, has no idea of what being a soldier is, got a Rich Boy’s deferment, and yet has the GAUL to insult ALL POWs, MIAs and all of our military. If I could slap him across the face right now, I’d do it. Fucking cheap-shot, hustling, coward fucknuts.
I see all the Trump fanboys are giving thumbs down to anyone who brings facts into this little hissy fit they’re throwing in defense of Trump indefensible smear of McCain’s Naval service.
So I suppose actually pointing out facts about Trump will drive you further off your nut.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/245165-trump-wants-oprah-on-his-ticket
“‘I think Oprah would be great. I’d love to have Oprah,’ Trump told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos in an excerpt from Trump’s first interview after his Tuesday morning presidential announcement.
‘I think we’d win easily, actually.’
Trump previously floated Winfrey, one of the most recognizable people in the world, as a potential running mate back in 1999, the last time he formed an exploratory committee for the presidency. When asked by Larry King on CNN if he has a vice presidential pick in mind, her name came to mind.
‘I love Oprah. Oprah would always be my first choice,’ he said back in 1999.”
He’s the same Hillary Clinton supporting, Oprah loving social liberal he’s always been. Even now, knowing what he knows now after Barack Obama.
And you people think some guy who wants Barack Obama’s biggest booster in 2008 and 2012 as his running mate is the “conservative” for you?
And yet the fools on this historically intelligent forum, and other for a across the country, are still taking him seriously. Oprah? Please, God, let me wake up and have this all just have been a nightmare. Does he think that will get him the black vote? If he said it as a joke, it shows his obsession with celebrity, that he’s careless, shallow, has no circumspection and that he takes none of this seriously. It’s all frivolity, let the good times roll. Let’s elect Oprah and a guy who denigrates our military.
Great. I hope every dumb son if a bitch out there supporting this man get exactly what the deserve.
http://articles.courant.com/1999-12-02/news/9912020061_1_reform-party-donald-trump-presidential-candidate
This is your guy, Trumpalos.
“Donald Trump loves publicity.
And he loves making promises — like his most recent vow to run for president. He has spoken about that before, and then disappeared before a single ballot was cast.”
And he dropped out of the race before the Reform party chose a candidate.
“Connecticut residents, particularly those in Bridgeport, are familiar with Trump’s promises. He first said he would build a casino in Bridgeport. No dice. Then he promised to erect the world’s largest Ferris wheel at a $350 million waterfront theme park in the Park City. Never happened. Then, in 1995, he said he would build an Indianapolis 500-type racetrack with up to 60,000 seats in the congested city with little available land. That turned into a boulevard of broken dreams. Besides some full-color architectural renderings, none of these ideas went anywhere.”
Mm hmm. Just like now he’s promising to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it.
“Trump put part of the blame on then-Gov. Lowell P. Weicker, who opposed the casino. When asked by a reporter Wednesday if he was sorry he called Weicker a fat slob during his casino effort, Trump said, `At least I’m accurate.'”
He promises to do things he never intends to do, then torpedoes any chance at negotiations, then blames everyone and everything else except the destruction he inflicted himself.
This is your guy. He’ll insult all POWs just to insult McCain, who isn’t even running, because it’s red meat for fanboys.
Yeah, I despise Senator McCain, too. As Senator McCain. I do not despise LT McCain USN. That McCain I respect. And I have zero respect for a draft dodger who would insult all POWs just to insult Senator McCain.
Trump is the same clown, the same jerk, he’s always been.
To be a Trump fan is to be blind to the facts. Just as people commenting here can not admit that when Trump said he liked “people who don’t get captured” he was in plain English insulting people who have been captured.
Not just McCain.
No one can take away what McCain did for our country, and everyone should thank him for it. Yet if someone doesn’t agree with that, it doesn’t mean that the person’s character is ruined.
Why is it that only Republicans can kill themselves with a single comment. Obama lies profoundly and loudly, and everyone knows he is lying, and that’s okay by our standards. A Republican mixes a word up or something, and his character is assassinated. Trump is the only candidate that is calling out the Bank of International Settlements on the exchange rate. If we have equal exchange rates with China, we will return to a booming economy overnight.
It isn’t a matter of a single comment, although this one is pretty awful. He had just called McCain in no way a war hero, a loser, and to make clear he likes winners he said “I like people who weren’t captured.”
That is an insult to everyone who was captured, not just McCain. And by extension to every one of us who ever served. We all have code of conduct training, and some of us go to SERE, because it’s always a possibility that the fortunes of war could land you in POW camp. Not just the losers wind up there.
Trump’s mouth is a lose cannon. It’s always been a lose cannon, and always will be. He’s a thoughtless man. He is a self promoter, and not nearly the businessman he claims to be. He started out wealthy. He over promises and under delivers.
So, yeah, great. He’s calling out the Bank of International Settlements. He’s always talking about something, rarely doing anything about anything. That’s his track record, and that’s not all of it.
So if you want some social liberal who fails to keep his promises wants Barack Obama’s biggest supporter as his vice president and blames everybody else when he fails to deliver, why don’t you just vote for the Democrat who promises to be Barack Obama’s third term?
“…why don’t you just vote for the Democrat who promises to be Barack Obama’s third term?”
Hey, is that a draft McCain plea?
Trump is also the only ‘pub candidate who wants nationalized health care. He has said so. He’s also the only ‘pub candidate of any meaningful poll numbers to have been for abortion before he was against it. He’s also the only ‘pub candidate of any meaningful poll numbers to have given heavily to ‘rats until just a couple years ago and the only ‘pub candidate who has given money to the Clinton Foundation and to Hillary’s senatorial campaign.
But just keep telling yourself he’s on your side, keep telling yourself he’d be good for America, keep telling yourself he doesn’t like illegals even though he has employed them by the thousands, keep telling yourself he’s not a shill for Hillary, keep telling yourself he loves our military even though he dodged the draft and insulted them all. And that’s not just me saying it. Howza ’bout looking at remarks from military folks and associations? The first is a guest column by Paul Rieckhoff, leader of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. He might know a thing or two about what’s insulting to veterans or not. He points out just what I’ve said, and that is that an attack on one veteran is an attack on all veterans, and that Trump’s stupidity is especially egregious given the attack on our guys in Chattanooga last week, which I’ve also said. It’s right there in the column. Read it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trump-vile-slap-mccain-insults-veterans-article-1.2297306
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421359/donald-trump-mccain-clarification-slammed-veterans-group
http://therightscoop.com/do-veterans-support-trump-or-defend-mccain-heres-what-twitter-says/
And there you have it.
And I wasn’t kidding about the Trump/Winfrey ticket being Obama’s third term, Trumpalos.
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-supports-national-health-care-2011-4
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-donald-trump-helped-democrats-pass-obamacare/2015/06/22/002f4c7c-18ea-11e5-ab92-c75ae6ab94b5_story.html
How can anyone who purports to be a conservative or even a RINO support this guy? I thought conservatives, or those merely right of center, weren’t bleeding hearts. That they used their heads. That facts matter.
But you’re all getting swept away by raw emotion. As Trump knew you would; he’s basically a carnival barker, not a businessman.
From the WaPo piece:
“…In other words, Trump wanted Nancy Pelosi to be speaker of the House and Harry Reid the Senate majority leader.
Which is not surprising. At the time he made those contributions, from August 2001 to September 2009, Trump was a registered Democrat. (He had been registered in New York first as a Republican, then a member of the Independence Party, then a Democrat, then a Republican again, and then became unaffiliated.)…”
So, if this guy voted in November 2008 he likely voted for Barack Obama.
And he’s your guy, huh, Trumpalos?
http://news.yahoo.com/conservative-donald-trump-supported-auto-bailouts-2008-150008168.html
From April 2011. The last time Trump tried to fool people into believing he’s a Republican:
“Although Donald Trump is trying to re-invent himself as a conservative for a possible bid for president in 2012, reminders of his prior support for Democrats and big government polices keep adding up. The latest: The Donald supported the auto bailout in 2008.
…This occurred months before the birth of the Tea Party, but conservatives were outraged.
Not Trump. A longtime advocate of sweetheart deals between corporation and state, the real-estate developer went all in for the deal…”
Here’s your chance to vote for more Obama-style cronyism, Trumpalos.
Appreciate the yeomen’s work that Arminius and JRT have done in this thread, but unfortunately the Trumpkins are this cycle’s Paulbots. You can read it in their talking point addled comments where they repeat the same basic two or three things and move on. They can’t be reasoned with, so the only hope is that there aren’t enough of them to derail serious candidates.
And listen, McCain himself has shown that he’s the real whackadoo in Congress. I have no love for him or the way he’s handled himself. But Trump’s comments cut deeper than McCain.
Appreciated as well. But the invective and foul language of JRT is bringing this site down, too. We can have intelligent discussions without that. It’s the fate of popular sites, unfortunately. BTW, been here 6+ years.
I’ve been trying to take the high road. One more article about McCain, to illustrate this isn’t really about McCain.
http://www.newtotalitarians.com/index_files/TheOrsonSwindleStory.htm
“The story of Orson Swindle’s shootdown, capture, and internment at the Hoa Lo Prison in Hanoi is not mentioned in the ‘Honor Bound’ book [1] until page 301 with the footnote that “Swindle had firmly established his own resistance credentials during a brutal 39-day trip to Hanoi from his capture site near the DMZ. See Hubbell [2], ‘P.O.W.’ pp. 276.”
According to Hubbell, “As the war intensified, the Vietnamese became even more cramped for prison space. On May 19 [1967] alone – the Americans would remember it as ‘Black Friday’ – seven aircraft were downed. On May 21 [1967], Marine Capt. Orson Swindle was ushered into a cell he was told he must share with three others, Ron Storz, Wes Schierman, and George McKnight, three of the most stalwart resisters. Swindle was thrilled, but the thought nagged that he did not deserve such company, for there was no denying his treason.”
“‘Look, you guys,’ he said, ‘I’ve heard about you and I just can’t tell you how much I admire you. But I’ve got to tell you something: I betrayed you up here. I gave them a statement [at the Heartbreak Hotel – initial interrogation and torture section of the Hoa Lo prison complex] and didn’t take torture for it.’ Tears of shame filled his eyes as he explained himself: he had been shot down on November 11, 1966 near the DMZ, had been captured immediately and subjected to savage beatings. He was interrogated and pressed for information and concessions of war crimes several times during a thirty-nine day trip to Hanoi. Resisting, he had been rope-tortured numerous times during a thirty-nine day trip to Hanoi. Reaching Hanoi, he had refused to make antiwar statements and had been kept isolated, hungry, thirsty, and tired. Then ropes had been displayed to him and he was told he was to be tortured again. It had been too much, he said, and he had caved in, confessed to criminal acts against the Vietnamese people, agreed with Sen. Wayne Morse that the war was ‘illegal’ and was sorry for having participated in it. He felt he had betrayed his country, his family, and every American who had fought and died or been captured in this war. He was inconsolable.”
“ ‘Orson,’ said Ron Storz earnestly, ‘don’t worry about that.’ George McKnight laughed. ‘Orson, you’re looking at the Ernest Hemingway of North Vietnam! I’ve written so much bullshit up here you wouldn’t believe it!’ That made Orson laugh – and nearly cry with relief. He felt all right about himself again. He believed that with men like these around him he would not fail again. It would not be for lack of opportunity.”
The above cellmates were confined to the Desert Inn building in the Vegas section of the Hoa Lo prison complex [3].
…Another datum on when McCain and Swindle crossed paths during their imprisonment is recorded in ‘Honor Bound’ [19]. “At Christmas, 1971, cell 2’s [at camp Unity] McCain, Swindle, Fer, Hivner, and Waggoner starred in a ‘Hanoi Players’ production of Dickens’s holiday classic with Scrooge ‘meaner than a barrel of snakes’ and Tiny Tim and Bob Cratchit ‘more pathetic than ever.’”
An interesting observation has been made by David D. Kirkpatrick, the New York Times reporter, who follows the 2008 presidential election candidates. He describes John McCain’s behavior as a POW in terms of McCain’s thesis, written at the National War College after his return from Hanoi [20]. He writes, “[McCain] has talked about his studies as a tutorial in the hows-and-whys of America’s involvement in Southeast Asia. But the 40-page final paper he produced was limited to an evaluation of the military code of conduct through the prism of his ‘narrow, but personal viewpoint…At times, Mr. McCain seemed to court punishment, noisily cussing out his captors while giving ‘thumbs up’ signs to his fellow prisoners. ‘No matter what he did, he always played to the bleachers,’ Robert Coram, a military historian, wrote in a book about the camps.”
What is Kirkpatrick referring to here? The ‘P.O.W.’ book provides a description of an event in 1968 when McCain was imprisoned at the Plantation, the ‘show camp’ where POWs were paraded before foreign correspondents and American ‘peace’ anti-war delegates visiting Hanoi [21]. “On Christmas Eve [1968] approximately fifty POWs found themselves attending a religious ceremony in a room at the Plantation. An organ was playing, and [an Air Force major] led a small choir of Americans in seasonal hymns. English-speaking Vietnamese officers bustled about, trying unsuccessfully to get the other prisoners to stop passing information to one another. Photographers crowded the sides and rear of the room, popping bulbs, grinding away movie film, talking and calling out. A sort of low-key pandemonium reigned. Soft Soap Fairy, conscious that he was being filmed, stood smiling in an aisle and calling, ‘McCain, stop talking.’”
“‘F— you,’ called John McCain, who resumed briefing Doug Hegdahl on all that had happened to him. ‘I refused to go home. I was tortured for it. They broke my rib, and rebroke my arm’…McCain was deathly pale, his eyes sunken, and his arms looked twisted, as though he had suffered polio. But Hegdahl, who now had been months in solitary, was thrilled at the size of McCain’s spirit…”
I am angry that I have to defend John McCain, who as a politician I royally dislike. But the fact of the matter is he served admirably.
So did the men who served with McCain, at least those who didn’t collaborate. And there were some. But McCain wasn’t one; he resisted. And so did many others.
Which is what makes Trumps comments so despicable.
“I never liked him after that because I don’t like losers.”
“I like people who weren’t captured.”
He wasn’t just talking about McCain. I suppose Jeremiah Denton, who famously transmitted “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” by blinking his eyes, ruining what was supposed to be a North Vietnamese propaganda coup, was a loser, too.
We are living in interesting times when a guy with four student deferments and a bogus medical deferment can pass judgement on John McCain’s service. Newsflash, Trumpolas: look at the pictures of McCain on crutches after his release. I’d say he was suffering worse leg and foot problems than Trump’s mysterious “bone spur” that eventually rendered him 4-F.
Mysterious because not even Trump can remember which foot was affected. And it certainly didn’t interfere with Trump’s golf game. Meanwhile McCain went on to serve his country on active duty and the reserves despite being in far worse pain.
And if you are aware of the background behind the phrase “interesting times,” you know that is a Chinese curse.
McCain has arguably done more harm to conservative principles and the Republican party, along with such ‘good friends’ as Ted Kennedy, than the Donald could ever hope to do. Though I must admit, pining for Oprah Winfrey as a running mate is a bigger mark against him than slamming McCain, who frankly deserves to be knocked down a notch or twelve. All side show, however, keeping us droning away on unimportant issues. Same as it ever was.
OK enough already. We get that some of you don’t like Trump but for gosh’s sake make one point or two and leave the comments to others.
I don’t like McCain either. I never liked him. He’s not my Senator though. I only began to truly loath the man when he called me a racist for not getting onboard with his stupid amnesty program. If you go back through my comments I blame him for things most of you aren’t even aware that he’s guilty of.
But you can’t take away what he did. McCain was not, as Trump says, a war hero because he was captured. He was a war hero before he was captured. His DFC citation.
“The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Flying Cross to Commander [then Lieutenant Commander] John Sidney McCain, III (NSN: 0-624787), United States Navy, for heroism while participating in aerial flight on 26 October 1967 in North Vietnam. While attacking the thermal power plant at Hanoi, Commander McCain, despite extremely heavy and accurate anti-aircraft fire and more than fifteen surface-to-air missiles in the air, pursued the attack until his aircraft was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire. Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target. By his exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty, Commander McCain reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
Action Date: October 26, 1967
Service: Navy
Rank: Commander”
It’s similar to how he refused early release. He could have aborted his mission. He could have tried to save his skin as soon as he was hit. But his objective wasn’t to save his own butt, it was to put bombs on target. So he pressed home his attack even though his plane was mortally wounded.
I’ve heard and read a lot of nonsense commentary. That it doesn’t take much skill to get shot down. True. But it takes a lot of skill and a lot of courage to rate a DFC. To complete your mission while taking that kind of fire.
You’ve at least got to give him that. You can still despise him for everything he did later. I know I do.
On the flip side I can’t find any redeeming qualities about Donald Trump. Maybe he hasn’t damaged the Republican brand as much as McCain, but how could he? Up until 2009 he was a registered Democrat.
“Up until 2009 he was a registered Democrat.”
Perhaps you might like to complete the full history of Trumps politics. You could start with the fact he was an early supporter of Reagan for President.
Ronald Reagan was “registered democrat” at one point.
I loathe J McCain. I will say he was a genuine war hero as most aviators flying into those conditions were. As any “grunt” on the ground in combat was.
It was J McCain who attacked first, calling supporters of Trump / secure the borders – anti amnesty types “crazies”. I think Trump should apologize for not saying what is reported he said right after McCain apologizes for calling me a crazie.