Closing of the Campus Mind on Men’s Rights
All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others on campus.
This video comes a little round-about.
It started with a post by Dr. Helen Smith (h/t Instapundit) regarding some feminists trying to blame the Pick-Up Artist community for the mass murder by Elliot Rodger.
Revelation No. 1: There’s a ” Pick-Up Artist community”? Do they have rights?
Revelation No. 2: A reference to a 2012 incident in Toronto with which I was not previously familiar:
Perhaps it is the feminists and their supporters who block funding and education going to boys’ and men’s issues that are to blame. Case in point? Warren Farrell tried to give a talk in Toronto about suicide in young men and other topics and was accosted by nasty feminists who did not want him to speak.
The link is to this video about Warren Farrell:
Here’s some more videos about the protest (Language Warning):
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Comments
None of these “repressed” and “injured” groups on the Left act with “Political Correctness”. Why do we tolerate or allow it when they demand it of us?
Some of those “feminists” have more in common with Elliot Rodger than they do with the rest of society. It’s time to just ignore them. Women are not an oppressed class in the United States.
Oh, just pass the popcorn, already. I find it hard to take either group seriously.
The problem with the feminists is that they won everything a reasonable woman could wish for when Title IX and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act were passed. Instead of turning to publicizing ways people could use their rights, they chose to dig up more grounds for “victimhood,” and most reasonable people left the movement.
I know when I left. I was in a doctor’s office while I was in law school, and saw a copy of Ms magazine. At one time, I read every issue as it came out. But it had been years, and I’d been busy. An article about child custody drew my attention because I was taking Family law, and so had recently become accustomed to the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act. I happily set down, to find out all the ways this Act could be used, and how a clever woman could protect herself and her children.
There was no mention of the Act, and no decent advice anywhere in the article. The article was nothing but a bunch of whining about how tough life was for a woman, with no mention at all of the very real tools that had been put into place, or how to use them. I never read Ms again.
At the same time, the Men’s Rights movement was just getting started. I could see how men might actually want to see their kids, and maybe even want custody. But that was not what Men’s Rights was all about. It always boiled down to reducing their child support and alimony payments. Like the family law judges, I learned to ask “What relief do you seek?” The answer was always “reduce my payments.”
We live in a glorious, free country, where any adult is free to arrange their life as they see fit. Yes, men have rights. Yes, women have rights. But anybody bothered enough about the limits this society places on their rights because of their gender is, in my experience, just a little nuts.
There is a difference between supporting your children, and being forced to give a certain amount to a spouse (who has no accountability for what she does with it) at the point of a gun. We will leave out cases of men who actually were paying child support while taking care of the children.
Do you really think there is equality in the US in regard to divorce, custody (“or may even want custody – wow!”) and support payments, or is it a sort of witches brew of paternalism and equality, depending on what benefits the female partner?
How about, for starters, having the woman give a detailed expense report of what she does with the money?
PS – I have no children, have never been divorced, and have no intention of doing the latter. I am married and have never been in a “relationship”.
The extent to which child support has been perverted is most obvious in the case of baby mommas for star athletes.
I remember reading an article about Terrell Owens. It was a laughable story trying to generate sympathy for his financial situation, ignoring the fact that over his career his pissed away over $80 million (more than 50 average people combined would see over their lifetimes).
But in the article, it mentioned that he was paying $40k a month in child support to 4 different women.
Ignoring the idiocy required to actually have 4 different kids by 4 women, how in the name of God is it in any way fair or equitable to give a woman that amount of money for ‘child support’.
You are lying about the Men’s Rights movement.
Everyone’s entitled to their own ridiculous opinion. Can you be more specific?
Men’s Rights is not just about “reducing child support and alimony payments”.
“At the same time, the Men’s Rights movement was just getting started. I could see how men might actually want to see their kids, and maybe even want custody. But that was not what Men’s Rights was all about. It always boiled down to reducing their child support and alimony payments. Like the family law judges, I learned to ask “What relief do you seek?” The answer was always “reduce my payments.””
Valerie, how many men have been paying child support for other men’s children? How many men have been deprived of the right to see their children by a vindictive ex- who might even go so far as to coach the child to lie that daddy abused it? How many men are put through hoops when they try to see their child? How many times have the courts refused to grant a man custody of his children? Sure, there are deadbeats, but the courts have had a major role in creating those deadbeats, often by not ensuring that the letter of the law of the custody arrangement is followed by the custodial parent, often the moms, some of whom are stone cold vindictive bitches.
The legal system has been abysmally and grossly unfair to heterosexual men, treating them as wallets without feeling. Is it any wonder that some men respond similarly? What man wants to be just an open wallet? No wonder men are turning away and not getting married.
Child support payments at a middle-class wage are grossly in excess of the needs of a child. They are always an implicit subsidy of the mother. If the father makes $4k a month that’s $800-1000 a month (he pays all the taxes on that income) for one kid at the typical 20-25 percent child support payments are set at. He’s easily paying half or more of his after-tax take-home pay for that one kid once the extras are tacked on. He’s basically left a pauper that can barely afford a slum apartment.
Don’t forget that the child support payments themselves are just the tip of the iceberg, as the poor sucker we call “dad” is often forced to pay for all the court costs, her lawyer, college, and health insurance (which is super-expensive because the kid isn’t legally his dependent) on top of the basic child support payment.
Isn’t alimony deductible?
Alimony payments?
Alimony still exists? We’re my wife and I to divorce I would have no qualms about paying my fair share to financially support our child as he grows up. But there is no way in hell I’m going to give someone money just because she used to be my wife. That is pure freaking insanity.
I would simply not pay.
Alimony is a violation of the 13th amendment, and therefore unconstitutional.
“I learned to ask “What relief do you seek?” The answer was always ‘reduce my payments.'” — you obviously didn’t ask my brother-in-law — who pursued custody in the courts, but stopped when it became obvious it was hurting his 3 kids (especially the younger ones). So, he sucked it up until the kids left home – the oldest girl getting married in high school so she could leave her drunken, profligate mother sooner.
Valerie,
I am taking your post at face value and wish to respond to you in a reasonable way, and not just flame you.
I am an MRA. Why? Because I was falsely accused of rape in college – twice. At different colleges it was my misfortune to date two very different women. One a perpetual victim, who I stopped seeing and who, 7 months later, decided that she needed a dramatic story to get attention – and the other who decided that for my daring to stop dating her she’d “teach me a lesson”.
I am also an MRA because I believe in PARENTS (to include fathers) rights. Not because I was some guy denied access to my child, but because I am a man, who was a child, who was denied a loving and nurturing relationship with my father because my mother (whom I do love dearly) decided that punishing my father by denying him access was more important than the damage such a move would do.
I am an MRA also because I can’t stand double standards, which feminists are ALL about.
What do men have happening that would be a legitimate set of grievances? That’s a fair question.
1) Men die, on average, 7 years earlier than women, and there is an office for Women and Girls’ Health, but none for men.
2) Men use healthcare services, EXCLUDING pregnancy and reproduction, on average, 40% less than women, but we are mandated, by law, to pay the same premiums – we are subsidizing women’s health care – again, even though we die 7 years earlier.
3) Education is geared to how girls learn, and boys are being left behind. In high school graduation rates, in rates if prescriptions for “hyperactivity”, and in programs to engage students – girls/women are the focus.
4) Almost 60% of incoming university freshmen are women – and no one cares young men are being disenfranchised. But there are numerous initiatives, programs, and women-only scholarships to give women “a leg up” in many fields – but none for men.
5) Men’s universities were excoriated and forced to TRULY open up to women – while the “7 Sisters” colleges admit a token amount of men to these Tier 1 schools – and no one cares.
6) More than ***40,000*** men’s sports teams have been disassembled under Title IX – but programs that are female friendly/centric have never had this applied. Generally, men like sports more than women – but all the programs that women like more (whatever they may be from college campus to campus) never face federal lawsuit Title IX challenges.
7) Women-Owned-Businesses are granted special protections and tax breaks, and get preference in contracts – is that equality?
8) 95% of work place deaths are men – and that EXCLUDES the military. No national “Office of Mens and Boys’ Health” exists, nor does any feminist seem to care. MRAs do.
9) Over 90% of the homeless are men. If this were reversed it would be a national topic, but tell me the last time (if ever) you saw a news story that highlighted the plight of the homeless that spot lighted the fact it’s almost all male.
10) Women do not have to register for Selective Service, but there are set asides in the military so that women get a certain cut of the glamour jobs (pilots & command). So women do not have to go to combat, can fight (but only if they want to), and are given short lists for advancement when they CHOOSE to do this. Must be nice to be able to opt out, or get fast tracked.
11) Male children and men who are raped can, and often ARE sued for child support. Yep, they get sexually molested or sexually assaulted and are then made to pay to their sexual abuser – under the threat of prison. The ONLY debtors prison we have in the U.S., outlawed by the Supreme Court under the Anti-Peonage Act, is for child support.
12) Men who are provably not the father, DNA tests have come a long way, can still be obligated for 18-21 years of “child support” for a child they had nothing to do with conceiving. Women on the other hand can utilize safe haven laws, adoption laws, and abortion – but we talk about “deadbeat dads” and you’ll never see a TV special or a national discussion about “deadbeat moms who walk away”.
13) Men basically have the choice at hitting 18 – work until you save enough to retire, or starve. For women there are many more options. In case you think I’m exaggerating – you can Google this – of the women who graduated from Harvard Business School in 1980, 1985, & 1990, less than 15% are working full time. Women who were / are the “go-getters” who competed to get into one of the most elite business schools in the country, and of THAT group, less than 15% are working full time, in their PRIME earning years. Must be nice to have that option – men don’t.
14) Women initiate over 65% of all divorces – and let’s be frank here – you don’t initiate a legal proceeding in which you know you’ll end up the loser. Women get custody over 80% of the time, and while not paying for child support can land you in jail, denying visitation is a deliciously wicked and satisfying way to hurt your spouse for which you’ll almost certainly face no real punishment. That’s vile – and while it does happen to some women (and it’s equally evil no matter who is doing it) the majority of parents alienated from their children are men.
15) Men being drunk and having sex makes them a predator – women being drunk and having sex makes them a victim. In no other area of law is this blatant divide solely based on gender so glaringly obvious and abused.
16) Women and men who commit the same crimes are often not charged with the same offence, women are allowed to plea to far lower offences and then besides that they get a steep sentencing discount for the same crime.
These are some serious issues – going from childhood to the grave, from education to prison, from healthcare to legal set asides in all stages of life. MRAs have issues with feminist legal initiatives because those programs & initiatives are blatantly bigoted and, largely, never talked about in our society.
Give it some thought.
Reading from a script… Quite symbolic of the vacuous babble she perfectly absorbed in the mush between her ears, then faithfully regurgitated at the feet of the perceived “enemies” of feminazism.
Bravo, Red.
Are they against Pick Up Artists in general, or just against MALE Pick Up Artists?
Or to put it another way, the difference between the pick-up culture and the hook-up culture is that the former gives you a way to blame men and not women for doing the same thing.
It would be as if we took a couple who were fighting and claimed the male was a batterer and the woman was innocent. Or we took a couple who got drunk and had relations and accused the male of rape.
Except that this is what we do.
Exactl – “slut shaming” is called out, and discussed on national news programs – but men who have the same desires and actions are blamed for anything bad that comes of it.
Everything about feminist jurisprudence is projection:
1) Don’t blame the victim, unless he’s male.
2) Don’t hold responsibility for one night stands, unless it’s a male.
3) Man “hurts” a woman (makes her angry – her actions are always a ‘reaction’ to her ‘hurt’ – never ‘violence’ out of anger) and he gets what he deserves. It’s a punchline in movies, and a theme in many a plot in popular TV shows and movies showing he deserved it. Women, apparently, never deserve revenge to be done to them – for the same actions.
etc etc.
Good lord. Bring back the crime of being a common scold.
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/05/19/4-reforms-that-would-make-our-schools-more-boy-friendly/
That link is to a Prager University production about boys.
Feminist “theory” has been so successful and pervasive…especially in “education” colleges, that being a normal male is really a handicap in a lot of settings.
Screw THAT…!!!
The feminists ALSO gave us the entire concept of a “hook-up culture” in which young women can behave as young men are told THEY behave.
I am for bringing back the code of chivalry. And modesty, respect, and continence in both…ok…ALLL…sexes.
Feminism stopped being about equality under the law a long time ago. There’s nothing that pisses me off more than being lectured by some 20-something women’s study twit about the oppression of women in America. As a 50 year old woman, I’ve never asked for special treatment and never received it. I’ve never “competed” in the job market with other men or other women, only with myself. Any successes I’ve achieved are due to my own actions. The dumb and young “feminists” want everything handed to them because of their gender. They are a perversion of the original goals of the feminist movement.
You,re dead on right, Rags, as you were also about feudalism and socialism.
I tuned out feminism in my long ago college days. Apart from the fact that I love men and think they are great, no guy ever set limitations on any of my endeavors, and I tried plenty. Some practical guys did put into writing stuff that, upon experimentation proved to be true—women don’t have the same upper body strength as men, for example. For this, they were lambasted as chauvinist pigs, and when the barriers came down and women applied for things like the NYFD, guess what? They were right. Feminists didn’t care as long as they could claim success for breaking barriers. Public safety? Pish tosh!
To these young yapping feminazis, pish tosh!
Nonsense like feminism can only exist in prosperous societies where the consequences for being wrong are limited and/or can be easily avoided.
Imagine if life were hard here in America. Truly hard. Frontier life hard. Just how quickly would these ideological indulgences evaporate?
If being wrong meant the difference between life or death, people who make a habit of finding new and creative ways of being wrong would not be long for this world.
Almost makes me want to wish for such a world.
Feminism is a culture of gender hatred.
Can’t help but wonder if it’s often gender SELF-hatred.
When taken to extremes, most -isms originate with a rather adolescent intolerance of perceived ‘unfairness’, no matter how slight.
If it has earned an ‘ism’ in popular culture, it will have organized to some degree, often to a high degree. This brings on the inertia of victimhood wherein the reperesentative organization behind the ism must nitpick where offense cannot be found, and often devolves into outright fakery of offenses.
To keep the orgs and their often high-salaried proponents alive, you have to keep the ism alive. The tail now wags the dog.