UPDATES:
Judge finds probable cause (no surprise).
Prosecutor discloses unreported prior choking incident about a week ago. State asked for $50,000 bond, and certain exclusion zones, no contact, no weapons possession, etc. Defense asked for $4,900 based on state bond schedule.
Judge sets $9,000 bond. Can’t return to girlfriend’s residence, except if accompanied by law enforcement one time. [corrected – later in hearing judge said Zimmerman should send someone else.] Can’t have contact with girlfriend. No possession of firearms. Will have tracking device. No traveling outsided Florida.
Judge: “I’m not increasing your bond because of anything that happened in the past. As far as I’m concerned, this is a brand new case.”
(George Zimmerman with his attorneys at November 19, 2013 bond hearing)
Next #GeorgeZimmerman court date: Jan. 7, 2014. GZ will be on GPS monitoring as well.
— Jeff Weiner (@JeffWeinerOS) November 19, 2013
Judge Jessica Reckseidler, who will preside over #Zimmerman arraignment. #Local6 pic.twitter.com/eyERWCoQgq
— Jason Olson (@knightproducer) November 19, 2013
She removed herself from the murder case due to a conflict of interest. Read more: http://t.co/Gpt8bxWesD #Local6
— Jason Olson (@knightproducer) November 19, 2013
#GeorgeZimmerman attorney Jeff Dowdy tells reporters: "Hopefully he'll be out by tomorrow morning."
— Jeff Weiner (@JeffWeinerOS) November 19, 2013
A bad day got worse: while in jail Shellie #Zimmerman had divorce papers served on Geo. He'd been dodging 'em for months. #Trayvon
— Rene Stutzman (@renestutzman) November 19, 2013
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Comments
George Zimmerman’s 15 minutes are up.
Bad choices, bad outcomes. True for Trayvon, true for George, true for all of us.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Just a living reminder that being in the right once doesn’t make one righteous. Disappointing but true.
Yep.
The folks at NBC are breathing a big sigh of relief as George makes takes his damages from tens of millions to a dollar.
Hubris is a bitch. Just ask President Obama.
This does not look good for George. He is presumed innocent, but this does not look like a Corey set up. But anything is possible in Florida.
She set him up and is a media ho, along with her mother. Friends with both him and Shellie since high school. She refused to give a statement at the Shellie altercation even though she saw Shellie hit George over the head with the Ipod. Why?
Her story here doesn’t add up. She told the 911 operator that she had her house key on her and she obviously did since she let the cops in with it. So, why didn’t she just go back in w/o calling the cops? Those who believe her will say because George had the gun out, but, under the circumstances, why would he pull his shotgun out and not his pistol? Note she says Kevlan, but that’s the gun he shot Trayvon Martin with, not his shotgun. She owns guns herself (two of the four in the house were hers) so knows SOMETHING about guns.
Then, you have the choking incident, which only comes up at the exact right time. Funny that she didn’t mention it while shopping the story to any outlet who would listen to them. I just saw on Twitter that LI posted about the shopping so won’t bother posting a link. Good work LI!
Starting to think he’s become emotionally disturbed.
Well, the guy is pretty stupid to be constantly meeting up with police. I’m 58 and never had a meeting with them unless I was asking a question. This guy doesn’t have the intelligence to know when to lie low and avoid problems. I never saw him as some kind of icon for gun rights. I thought he behaved stupidly in the Martin event, but likely not criminally and the jury saw it that way too.
His stupid behavior is destroying his life.
Or his is sin that he gets involved with women who are troublemakers? This narrative about his “repeated” police encounters rings hollow. Following his trial, there’s been only ONE situation that even MIGHT involve anything relevant. The speeding tickets are meaningless.
Ahhh….yes, if it’s not an unarmed “thug”, or some uppity cop trying to arrest George’s friend, then it’s “women who are troublemakers” causing problems for poor old George (always the common denominator in this violent accusations)
Have you donated money to his online defense fund yet? Because we’re dying to know how he’ll spend those thousands this time around….because we all know his attorney won’t see one red cent.
BrooklynGirl, you’re all attitude, and no substance. It’s certainly possible that George acted unlawfully on one or more occasions. It’s just that the evidence doesn’t support his girlfriend’s or ex-wife’s stories more than his story. Relevant?
And by ‘evidence’….you mean what exactly? Because the “scenario” you worked out in your head may not necessarily count as “evidence” for the police department.
But hey….maybe GZ’s attorney will argue the “I can’t even hear GZ through the door in the voice recording” thingy.
I don’t need to come up with any evidence. I’ve made no allegation.
Well, one would actually have to have privy to police information before one determines there is no evidence….doncha think? Evidence aside, “she” called the police first, “she” claimed Zimmerman pushed her out of her home, “she” was standing outside her home when police arrived, “her” personal items were destroyed, “he” claimed he wanted to leave, “he” remained there despite that claim, “he” stated she was pregnant, “the police” determined that was untrue. So yes…”he”, once again, finds himself facing trial.
brooklyn girl. ever heard of “he said, she said”? i’ve been cited for speeding during my lifetime. it never made the local paper let alone a national news service. there’s something going on, in my humble opinion.
It’s real simple. GZ shot a sweet little black boy who was really just a thug. GZ is white. He had the audacity to defend himself against a deadly assault by a member of a protected species.
Go read Les Miserables. GZ will be hounded for at least a decade.
He has been pulled over twice by the police on traffic issues and just had a domestic abuse case dropped with his soon to be ex-wife where police were called.
With today’s incident that is 5 times he has had police stopping him or arresting him in what? 18 months?
He is out of control.
I don’t think having a lead foot or being divorced by a shrew means he’s out of control. It means that jurisdiction is digging for revenue and GZ had the bad luck to unwittingly roll through with a little too much pedal – can happen to anyone.
I think his mistake is being involved with this or any other woman at this time or in the near future, like a couple years at least. He should just lay low and take care of business, advance his education, rebuild his health and his life…..somewhere besides FL. He should go to a very red state, such as nearby GA, SC or TN.
GZ is still very young. He lacks wisdom, but that doesn’t mean he’s out of control.
He voted for Obama..there is that. And stirred up a hornet’s nest of charges of racism and sainthood for Trayvon. I think St. Thugon got what he deserved and quite possibly saved innocents in the future far worse grief. Sure seems that under Obama and Holder at DOJ that minorities are emboldened to act out even more. Recall the Black Panthers walking on voter intimidation charges in Philly and shipped to Sanford on the public’s dime.Of course let’s not blame it on color but the black and Hispanic culture of violence. How many more are murdered in Chicago each year than US troops killed in Afghanistan? Remove those liberal-ruled big cities’ murder rates and imagine how low the US would rank world-wide. Why can’t progressives admit that 3 or 4% (black yoots) of the population commits the majority of the murders? Story today in Overbrook High School about students running amok. Isn’t that Wilt Chamberlain’s old alma mater? Bet students were far better behaved way back then and why? Discipline, perhaps? A more decent family structure? I hope LBJ and his ilk are rotting in hell.
I am not a person who easily allows excuses in crimes against another person, but if George Zimmerman did not have a history of violence against the women in his life, then the psychological pressure exerted against GZ by the state, the millions calling for his undoing, the inability to find a job, and the constant fear of what is lurking around the corner might be enough to cause him to act in ways he would not have in other circumstances. Just a thought.
That said, I cannot imagine a situation where I would pull a gun on anybody not trying to harm me or my family.
I did not see anything about “pull a gun” here. Is there a reference elsewhere?
In the arrest report the Girlfriend claimed GZ pointed his shotgun at her during their argument. Last I heard though, the police still hadn’t located that shotgun.
Elsewhere I saw something about a KSG, and that it was locked up when the police got there.
For what it’s worth. We just have to wait and see what shakes out.
How do you know Zimmerman “pulled a gun”?
Prof. Jacobson writes: “Can’t return to girlfriend’s residence, except if accompanied by law enforcement one time.”
I thought I heard the judge say George CAN’T return to the residence even once, even if he’s accompanied by cops, because it would be too “volatile.” Didn’t the judge say Zimmerman must arrange for a representative to pick up his belongings?
Who are ya gonna believe – hearsay or your lyin ears?
/bitter sarc, in case there’s a doubt
“I thought I heard the judge say George CAN’T return to the residence even once, even if he’s accompanied by cops”
I heard the Judge say the very same thing that you heard him say. Zimmerman will need to have a [third party] go to the victim’s home to get his stuff, Shellie’s stuff, and Shellie’s parents’ stuff that Zimmerman stole.
No possession of firearms.
****************************
then hes a dead man soon I bet.
they got him to be unarmed now.
need more info before I offer any opinions on guilt or innocence.
“No possession of firearms. **************************** then hes a dead man soon I bet.”
I will take that bet!!! Zimmerman had been arrogantly running around his city in the same silver Honda pickup truck with dark tinted windows and a tinted cover over his license plate for months now, heavily armed of course, and he has not been threatened by anyone. So how is his now being unarmed create any true danger to him? All of that crap is only in his, and your, minds! 😉
But most certainly now he won’t be as great a threat to the women living in his city!!!!
Most importantly, those who would do him evil now KNOW he’s unarmed.
I think the judge should have considered the standing threats against GZ before making no firearms part of her order, regardless of what the law allows her to do. The evidence from the woman seems thin and GZ is under real threat.
Judges need to consider the suspension of an individual right preserved in the Constitution/BoR with a lot more seriousness and weight than we saw here.
Wow. Gotta love how one of the best legal blogs on the net has such jump-to-the-gallows commenters, who suddenly find the mainstream media such purveyors of truth that a trial becomes unnecessary.
All of you emotional long jumpers go to the basement and shut the door behind you – the grown-ups want to have a sensible discussion.
Right or wrong, this idiot judge just tossed common sense out the window and painted a large target on GZ. If he isn’t a murder victim before this is over, I will be surprised. For the dense among us, that’s because the world now knows he has been disarmed and I have heard of no one being prosecuted for all the death threats he got during the TM circus trial.
Does it not occur to people to harmonize statements someone makes? This female turncoat CLAIMS he pointed a shotgun at her WHILE SHE WAS ON THE PHONE TO 911. Yet she was alive and well when police showed up AND the firearms were under lock and key. Yet now she fears for her life and her fear is REASONABLE? If her fear was reality based, she wouldn’t be talking – she’d be getting embalmed.
GZ is being framed – again.
Perhaps, platypus, you might consider it necessary for a grownup such as yourself to clarify whether or not guns are typically confiscated following a domestic violence allegation. Is it an example of how GZ is being uniquely railroaded, or a systemic problem?
So you’re okay with there being a general outcome for specific legal situations and it applies to all regardless of differences? I frankly don’t give a damn what the traditional legal order is – I care about justice and due process. Silly me to think that’s what this blog site is about.
Get a grip, platster. It’s just a simple question. What’s wrong with asking you if you see a unique or systemic problem? Why the hostility?
Heard the 911 tape on the radio and when girl friend exclaimed “he just broke the table” there was no background noise. I didn’t hear any background sound at all even when she was allegedly being pushed out the door. Did I miss something ?
I’ve heard this strange attempt to defend GZ all morning (not sure how you can clearly hear someone through a door in a voice recording….but okay)
Is this the standard line we’ll hear ad nauseum from Zimmerman apologist?
In the future, perhaps you should stick to English if Latin gives you trouble. It is ad nauseam
Excuse me, Professor….does my misspelled word make my entire statement invalid? And do I need to get my parents’ signature on my paper you’ve graded and return it to class in the morning?
No, I just love it when people incorrectly use Latin to try and make themselves look (feel?) smarter, and FAIL! I resent the ad hominim attack. BTW. as I am sure you are unaware, I misspelled AND used ad hominemincorrectly
I assure you, Jazzizhep, that I was not “attempting look smarter”. I don’t require such validation on a thread, unlike you.
BrooklynGirl, what you mischaracterize as a “strange attempt to defend GZ” is really just applying the normal evidentiary standards. It’s about honoring due process. Zimmerman just happens to be the guy who’s being railroaded. There’s no cheerleading for him here apart from that issue. Don’t you believe in the concept of presumed innocence?
Of course I believe in presumed innocence. But that doesn’t mean that I allow my ‘personal feelings’ to get in the way of seeing obvious patterns. But sure…let’s say that GZ, even before the Trayvon shooting, constantly finds himself in situations where he’s “wrong accused” of violence…..
wrongly
“Obvious pattern?” Absolute nonsense.
The Martin case had nothing to do with a wrongful allegation of violence. Zimmerman admitted to using violent means of protecting himself and was wrongly accused of breaking the law in doing so.
The three traffic stops had nothing to do with any allegation of “violence.”
The claims of violence made by Shellie Zimmerman were so lacking in substance that no charges were filed.
A crooked law enforcement official wouldn’t find it difficult to convince you of a ‘pattern’.
That is more a “lack of evidence” comment. Breaking a table quietly? Difficult.
I’m not a Zimmerman apologist but I’d love to know how you managed to be on the scene every time he’s gotten in trouble. Since you KNOW he’s guilty of every allegation that’s ever been leveled against him, you must have been right there in the thick of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y87SF3vW8_o&feature=youtu.be&a
I agree that the g/f’s story rings completely hollow.
Poor GZ because he always pick battered (abused) women. Why don’t he find a woman with absolutely low mileage or zero mileage? I hope this lady judge Jessica Reckseidler is removed from the case due conflict of interest like the old GZ case.
The more I read comments (maybe I should go cold turkey) the more I want to defend GZ. Although I won”t go as far as platypus, is it out of the realm of possibility that the gf is a who decided to set up GZ. I am not saying it happened, but I bet Rachel Maddow, if given a chance, would put GZ in jail by sleeping with him and then saying “I am going to tell everybody you told me you shot TM after calling him an f’ing n’er” hoping, if not encouraging him, to go get a gun and then calling the police if he pulled a gun on her. You really think there are not hundreds of thousands of women willing to do that?
I don’t think the state is out to get him–this time–but the pro-active domestic violence laws (designed to take care of women because the state doesn’t think they can take care of themselves) can pull a man from his residence and put him in jail overnight because his gf says he did something even without substantiating evidence.
“I bet Rachel Maddow, if given a chance, would put GZ in jail by sleeping with him and then saying “I am going to tell everybody you told me you shot TM after calling him an f’ing n’er” hoping”
I would hope that even Zimmerman would have better taste than to hit that.
I think Maddow plays for the other team. Better choices of Obots to frame him would be Jeananne Garofolo or Cher. Or that Air America skank who called for W’s assassination on-air. I think George Z would have been better off moving to Texas or Peru, but even Texas has Sheila Jackson Lee types elected. Can’t we all just get along? Wonder how Z’s latest difficulties will influence lawsuits against the kangaroo court efforts by some in Fl. justice system?
When is circumstantial evidence sufficient to establish probable cause?
Almost always. If you are shot with a bow and arrow, the police come by fifteen minutes later and I am standing over you with a bow and arrow and nobody saw me shoot you. Do they have probable cause to search me and request a search warrant for my residence? It’s all circumstantial.
Right anything that is not a direct witness to the crime is circumstantial. Without actual evidence such as bruises that a crime did occur, it’s just a he/she said situation. Given that he counter accused her of destroying personal property and threatening him, there doesn’t seem to be and reason to affect an arrest if one of the persons involved has already agreed to leave the house. So the arrest and charging makes no sense on any grounds.
Getting to the setting of Bail and Requirements all without any probable cause is a travesty of a court proceeding. Why is it law an order that all law and reason go out the window every time says “Domestic Violence”?
Thank you. That was a concise yet clear explanation of why I think GZ is being targeted by opportunistic cops and DAs. Two conflicting stories and no evidence of violence against a person should equal no arrest.
Common misperception. Circumstantial evidence is always good enough.
Circumstantial evidence can be absolutely awesome evidence, very often superior to eye witness testimony. Police and court room dramas give it a bad name, but in the real world there’s nothing at all deficient about circumstantial evidence.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Andrew Andrew. Don’t you know you have to let a brawl really get going BEFORE you ride in and take control? You’re taking all the fun out of it. 🙂
Sorry, above post was intended as a reply to the “circumstantial evidence” sub-thread generally, not to myiq2xu in particular.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
No sweat, I like your answer better than mine anyway.
I would add that direct evidence is often in the form of eyewitness testimony, which is some of the least reliable evidence.
Haha, thanks! 🙂
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Wow, he was apparently arrested without probable cause. If anyone thinks that is not significant, I wonder how ht judge would feel if someone called the cops on her based on he said / she said and they arrested her! People lie all the god dam time, and this is a terrible precedent regardless of the truth
in many states for domestics none is needed, its presumed one is guilty and someone gets arrested.
Whatever the policy a state has, it must conform to the US Constitution. You cannot arrest someone without probable cause that they broke the law. A simple accusation is not enough without supporting evidence that a crime has been committed. This is on the face of it a false arrest. If it is correct based on the report, the Police Dept and the Prosecutor have some questions to answer about what and why they did what they did, especially given the circumstances. If the answers are not satisfactory then I advise them that justice is a harsh mistress, and “I was following orders” is not a valid defense.
“The testimony of a single witness, if believed, is sufficient to sustain a verdict.”
A common misconception, probable cause is not “can someone be believed”, the definition for probable cause is “a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person’s belief that certain facts are probably true”. From the record, there doesn’t appear to be any support for her accusation. There are certainly those people whom wish to lower the standards to “reasonable grounds” or “justifiable reason”, but that’s not probable cause. A reasonable and prudent officer without evidence of a crime would have taken down notes with everyone’s accusation and then instructed one of the parties to leave the house, which is what they normally do if there is no evidence of a crime.
I think this is really a troubling development in our legal system when we make excuses for these breaches. Back in the colonial days the salem witch trials kept proceeding when one person accused the other of being witches. People were arrested, tried and executed by “believable witnesses”, which quite predictably continued until the wife of the governor was accused of being a witch. just like accusing someone of being in league with devil, without some underlying support of the crime probable cause doesn’t exist. That’s what they were trying to prevent when they wrote probable cause into the constitution.
Oh, yes they can. If there is a woman or child involved.
Worse yet, family courts are secret proceedings.
the standard is probable cause, its written in stone in the bill of rights. Whether a woman or child is involved it is irrelevant. You can’t just arrest people willy nilly.
Maine is one of the (20 or so ??) states with mandatory arrest for alleged domestic assault, the 911 call is the PC.
the officer responding makes the call as to whom is the aggressor. And the evaluation procedures are basically pure judgment call and often wrong. the bigger and stronger (as perceived visually) is almost always considered the primary aggressor.
But that’s not probable cause. That’s “arrest the biggest person you see.”. This kind of reasoning would be hilarious if it weren’t true. Suppose instead of “biggest person”, you used another method that has been historically popular called “darkest skin”, where by you simply arrest the person with the darkest skin color upon someone’s call if you can’t find evidence of what happened? I am sure you could justify that under similar grounds as arresting “the bigger person (which is really just another way of saying male)” that people with darker skin colors have higher crime rates than compared to people with the lightest skin colors. Both would be equally valid, in that they are both equally unreasonable, stupid and violation of several constitutional protections. Just wait for the “Jew did it” law.
Probable cause, is not just probable cause that a crime was committed, it is probable cause that a certain individual that is subject to being arrested and charged with a crime is actually the perpetrator. If I call in a crime has been committed in say the middle of times square, A cop cannot just go in there, pick someone randomly out of the crowd and put them under arrest. “Well a crime was committed here, so I have probable cause to throw someone in jail”.
I personally this is so abhorrent to our constitution that maybe we need to start treating it as an insurrection. It’s an open defiance of our constitution that they are doing this.
Girlfriend’s testimony, broken table, etc. is more than sufficient probable cause here.
I don’t, of course, know if Zimmerman is guilty of these current accusations, but he certainly is doing himself no favors with the company he’s keeping.
Hope he straightens himself out before the New Black Panther Party makes good on it’s $10,000 dead-or-alive bounty on his head.
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Do they have that much money? I kinda doubt it.
“Hope he straightens himself out before the New Black Panther Party makes good on it’s $10,000 dead-or-alive bounty on his head.”
Bullsh*t! If they truly wanted GZ dead he would have been dead long ago.
Waiting for you to dig up some drama about Al Sharpton still being relevant as to why/how Zimmerman is now facing yet another freakin’ felony…
I also noticed that the police report said that the police officers stated “The front door, which was blocked by unknown items, was forced open to gain entry”. The implication being that GZ had barricaded the door from the inside. Based on my limited experience with DV cases (as a supervisor to Soldiers being investigated for DV), barricading someone outside of their house, or preventing them from exiting their house alone can qualify as Domestic Violence, even lacking any physical contact. So either the girlfriend barricaded the front door, and exited though another door, or GZ barricaded his girlfriend outside the house. Along with girlfriend’s statement, this seems like more probable cause then most of the cases I’ve been involved in.
If a broken table and a simple accusation is probable cause, then she should have been arrested as well, given Zimmerman accused her of theft and assault and the same table can be used to back him up that she was violent. Given the lack of evidence of an actual crime, and Zimmerman who apparently was flocking out of the house according to both parties from the 911 call, it’s hard to understand how they came to probable cause. It does appear from the available evidence that probable cause had nothing to do with the rest and they were operating under a protocol that did not require it especially as they didn’t find the double barreled shot gun he allegedly used. That evidence alone casts the whole arrest into doubt as to why they did it. The officer has some questions to answer, in particular why Shellie wasn’t arrested while Zimmerman. It would seem to be an equal protection issue as well if the police department was known to do this. I mean if a back gets into a fight with say a white guy, and there isn’t clear evidence, they can’t just always charge the black guy by default. Same deal here.
It seems like it should be that way. But in Domestic Violence cases, the police almost always need to make an arrest and it is almost always the male. It’s unfair sure, but personally I’m okay with it, it seems to be one of the few cases were our law reflects a sense of chivalry and the classic Judeo-Christian family structure, rather than this new-age non-sense that equality means that woman are the same as men.
Look if I were George after dodging a manslaughter charge, and having a domestic abuse charge thrown at me by my ex-wife, I’d avoid women for awhile. Too many girls wanting 15 minutes of fame out there. I’d work on getting my life back together and perhaps moving far away from Florida.
This guy keeps stepping into smelly stuff and sooner or later he won’t be able to wash it off. George was lucky he got off with the Trayvon case where I think he acted stupidly but not criminally. He keeps acting stupid though and he needs major help, from friends, if he has any.
I don’t have an opinion or a clue as to GZ’s guilt or innocence. It’s a he said/she said case, but at worst this is a typical low-grade domestic violence case.
From what I have read of Florida law, he’s getting the standard treatment for a first time DV defendant.
I am willing to bet money that sometime in the next few weeks SHE will contact HIM and tell him she is sorry and wants to get back together.
If he agrees then he is stupid.
It would not surprise me if she bails him out.
Zimmerman is STOOOOOoooooopid for getting involved with ANYbody at this point in his life.
And this lil’ honey is fifty kinds of sick poison, apparently drawn to Zimmerman.
Run away, George. Run. Away.
And STAY away from women for a YEAR after your divorce is FINAL…not filed. FINAL.
You have some discovery/healing to do.
FYI, the divorce was FILED many months ago, Zimmerman has been dodging service. Shellie had him served while he was in custody at the jail, today.
Not supporting Zimmerman’s actions here for very good reasons.
Everyone please realize that he is not a champion of gun rights. That is the trap the liberal media and race baiting guilters want you to fall into so they can deride you and bait you further.
His actions in the death of Trayvon were completely 100% without a doubt legal. Trayvon’s were not. Fact-based, hard evidence in the case decided his freedom…the very same evidence that should have prevented the case from going to trial.
Since this whole story came out, I don’t think anyone has ever said this guy is my hero and role model. He certainly is not mine.
I have a surprise for you, I agree with 90% of what you said in that one post! Hope you are well.
I know the “10%” you don’t agree with and don’t think we are having a kumbaya moment.
Nonetheless, I upvoted you for the effort.
After having followed the Martin/Zimmerman trial from start to finish all I can think of is that the pressure of what he went trough has left its mark on his common sense. I understand his fight with his ex because she was a bottom sucking media whore. But to then turn around and find another of her caliber is beyond reason. He seems to find the kind of woman that is either too stupid to not provoke him over ANY issue, knowing his past or too stupid to turn him down when he asks them out on the first date. I am not blaming the women in his life but by now anyone with an ounce of sense would steer clear of GZ at least for a while. The emotional chemistry of any relationship with him at this point is toxic.
But to then turn around and find another of her caliber is beyond reason.
There’s some folks I’d like you to meet– they’re called “roughly half of my generation.” You may see them on facebook, every three months or so they find a new, wonderful girl and are so glad she’s not the manipulative snake they just dumped last month….
He appears from past history to have a bit of a saviour complex(mentoring fatherless black boys, neighborhood watch person, etc.)We have no way of knowing at this point in time what transpired at his girlfriends house that he has been living in only for the past two months. She could have been really pissed off at him, demanding he leave and he wouldn’t, ( I can picture him trying out conflict resolution pyschobabble on the GF). So she calls 911 knowing that he is capable of shooting someone. She has to have some kind of drama to get the police there to remove him, so…pointing a shotgun doesn’t sound too over the top.
I do remember Shelly Zimmerman saying that he had “changed” since the trial. Whether that is correct, who knows, but I can’t imagine wanting to flaunt his freedom and previously unwanted celebrity the way he is….
Let’s put it this way. No matter the fact that Zimmerman killed a young man in self defense, the fact remains he killed a young man. If this is how he is dealing with that sad fact, then he is really not mananging it well. The fact that he can’t have guns currently ISN”T the State of Florida’s fault, it’s GZ.
If you haven’t read Andrew’s book(and I suspect some of you haven’t) I strongly suggest you get it. He deals with this type of “behavior” that is not in your favor should you end up before the law and it’s a good educational read.
My interest in GZ/TM did not extend past the legal questions involved due to the way political themes such as race and gun control buffeted the case.
As for other cases involving GZ, if there is no larger legal question at hand, I cannot understand why anyone would give a shit. Of course, this is my failing.
Henry, I think the interest in GZ stems from the fact that the media and the political/gun control proponents would not accept the verdict. They have continued to decry the verdict as GZ “getting away with murder” and have cheered the stupid as they wear hoodies and sing Trayvon songs, which includes politicians,Hollywood types, etc.
Let’s not forget that Eric Holder still has an open case against GZ despite the not guilty verdict as to whether he committed a “race/hate crime”.
Those of us who are pro 2nd amendment, pro self defense are having a hard time, I guess, accepting that someone whom we had a vested interest in the outcome of his case(There for the grace of God go I)is so flawed and keeps repeating the same behavior that many on the other side say led to the confrontation with Martin. In other words, GZ keeps proving that point, no matter how limited of value that point is.
In other words, the next time GZ pulls the trigger on someone, even if it appears to be in “self defense” , at what point does personal responsibility to not have yourself inserted into a confrontational situation come into play? Again, Andrew’s book goes into retreat, agressor, etc. in depth and there is a very fine line that one needs to know when to cross.
GZ keeps treading on that line needlessly, IMO.
I get all that, but respond “so what?” The law did just fine in GZ’s first case, and there is nothing unusual as yet about this case, a routine DV case, and as is typical, it appears a he said/she said DV case.
The GZ/TM made GZ a celebrity, or what passes for one in the US anymore, and I think that is the attraction for most.
I agree.
I think people on the left are trying to use these cases as the smoking gun proving that GZ is a ‘bad guy’ and therefore should have been found guilty int he TM case. On the other hand I think conservatives are getting over defensive, trying to show that he is in fact a ‘good guy’ to help validate that he acted properly in the TM case. Either way the only thing that would actually make his current legal battle relevant, would be if someone turned up evidence showing that this was in fact a setup by the left.
I feel really badly for George Zimmerman. This thing with Trayvon Martin was very, very bad, even thoug he was acquitted. I don’t know much about him and his wife, but as I understand it, they weren’t having marital problems before that.
So now, his wife brings false charges against him, and “for richer, for poorer” lady is gone and makes his life worse.
So now, he takes a chance on someone he apparently hardly knows, knows since August of this year as I understand it, and begins living with her, without actually knowing her well beforehand. Very unwise, but I can understand how he tried the marriage approach and it let him down after the most difficult situation. Of course, as I understand it, he didn’t show up when his wife was being sentenced for her charges related to the matter.
Part of my practice is divorce work. It’s not uncommon for women to make up stories and accusations… about violence, threats, money, the kids, you name it….
I heard GZ’s phone call to 911. He said she said she was pregnant and she wanted him to leave, and he never had a weapon out… This seems very consistent with his behavior in prior situations.
He needs to stay away from women, if this is the best judgment he has in choosing them.
As far as the speeding tickets, let’s just say, I wish I only had two or three speeding tickets. :^)))
Karen Sacandy: I don’t know much about him and his wife, but as I understand it, they weren’t having marital problems before that.
That is incorrect. Zimmerman had an argument with his wife the night before he shot Martin. It was serious enough that she left to go stay with her father.
Zimmerman had been previously arrested for assaulting a police officer. He was required to take anger management classes.
The court also issued an order of protection against Zimmerman for a previous girlfriend who claimed he assaulted her when she told him to leave. Zimmerman claimed she started it. Sound familiar?
The man has anger issues. His wife walked out on him the night before he shot Martin…
…and of course this leads to your hare-brained theory that supsersedes all of the actual forensic evidence and only eyewitness account from the scene that proved the shooting of Trayvon Martin was justified.
You should help the prosecutors write a how-to book on the ways to build an evidence-free case against someone in a criminal trial. You can publish a mass market reprint under a new title “How to lose a legal case and your livelihood”
healthguyfsu: …and of course this leads to your hare-brained theory that supsersedes all of the actual forensic evidence and only eyewitness account from the scene that proved the shooting of Trayvon Martin was justified.
The “only eyewitness account”. That’s funny. In any case, the forensic evidence showed, at best, reasonable doubt.
All so compelling, yet the prosecution introduced NONE of it at trial. Perhaps because it was so easily debunked?
Or are you one of those who believes Angela Corey did all this as part of a grand scheme to let Zimmerman go free? Hence all the despicable hiding of discovery evidence exculpatory to Zimmerman?
–Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Andrew Branca: Perhaps because it was so easily debunked?
Which you didn’t bother to do.
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=5782626
Live link apparently doesn’t always work. Try, http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/ and search criminal records.
BDLR is that you??
Honey trap: http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/wpgo/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/george-zimmerman-gf-300×178.png.
Well the Conservative Tree House is claiming that Zimmerman was setup. Apparently Scheibe has been shopping her story.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/11/20/george-zimmerman-set-up-if-it-walks-like-a-duck-looks-like-a-duck-quacks-like-a-duck-avoid-the-bill-dont-sleep-with-it/#more-72552
Fox news this morning says that GZ has filed an affadavit with the court claiming he is 2 million in debt, has no income, and needs a public defender.
$2M. in debt? Wow.
Well. Much ado about, so far, not much – just some routine domestic disturbance BS. And perhaps not even that, as we don’t know what the relationship of the parties actually is. What the press tells us is hardly consequential, as it will, in the time-honored tradition, almost surely be fluffed up into something more lurid than it actually is.
The Zimmerman trial was of considerable interest because it seemed to be a case of the Forces of Evil (professional race-baiters and hustlers, an overbearing State, a notoriously malignant prosecutor, and The Press) being intent on railroading a man presumed to be not guilty.
But a “he said, she said” squabble is of no interest at all. So far the actions of the police seem to be the default practice of police everywhere in America – address the immediate problem by removing one of the parties to the conflict. Confiscation of all guns in the area is another routine police response, whether justified or not.
If there’s a conspiracy afoot to railroad GZ again, it hasn’t so far put in an appearance.
An inference can provide guidance (i.e. correlation), but it does not establish cause (i.e. dependence). An overreliance on circumstantial evidence has caused corruption in our political system (e.g. diversity), legal system (e.g. persecution), science (e.g. global cooling/warming/change), etc., and has ensured that each is unreliable.