I have a really bad feeling about the Zimmerman verdict.
Logically, it should be a slam dunk of “Not Guilty” on all charges, since the evidence clearly shows Zimmerman was acting in justifiable self-defense as he was being beaten by Trayvon Martin. Or at least there is a reasonable doubt as to self-defense, which the law requires result in a Not Guilty verdict.
I’ve said it before, this was a case which never should have been brought, and it wasn’t. Not until a carefully orchestrated professionally managed publicity campaign based on false racial accusations, resulting in a Special Prosecutor.
You know the rest, or at least you thought you did until today.
We knew that Obama pumped up the racial angle when he commented that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon. I wonder which Trayvon that was, the one the jury heard about who just liked to play video games with his siblings? Or the Trayvon of the cell phone, bragging not long before this incident about his fighting prowess and how he knew how to sucker punch people in the nose? But the jury never will know that.
We also knew that Eric Holder had the DOJ investigate the case, and that the FBI found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist or motivated by racism.
What we didn’t know until today was that the DOJ supported some of the anti-Zimmerman rallies, as disclosed by Judicial Watch (which also is helping me with my lawsuit to obtain David Gregory non-prosecution records from D.C.):
Judicial Watch announced today that it has obtained documents in response to local, state, and federal records requests revealing that a little-known unit of the Department of Justice (DOJ), the Community Relations Service (CRS), was deployed to Sanford, FL, following the Trayvon Martin shooting to help organize and manage rallies and protests against George Zimmerman.
The way the trial has been conducted is an equal travesty.
The prosecution is throwing everything against the wall, including conflicting and inconsistent theories that Trayvon was on the bottom of the fight screaming and alternatively that Trayvon was on top pulling back.
Similarly the prosecution creates obsessive distractions such as whether Zimmerman “followed” Martin, even though that is legally irrelevant.
We have had the strange spectacle of the prosecution attacking its own police witnesses who had the temerity to believe George Zimmerman’s story and find it consistent and credible. The law enforcement world has been turned on its head in this prosecution, because it had to be turned on its head to justify the prosecution.
If you want to understand just how dirty this prosecution case has been, consider one bit of evidence which probably slipped by most viewers.
The prosecution elicited testimony from defense gun shot wound forensic expert Vincent DiMaio that he participated in studies of gunshot wounds on live animals (under a federally regulated and sanctioned program in which the animals were under anesthesia). What’s the relevance of that? Nothing. Except that the prosecution knew that there were animal owners on the jury, and this was an attempt to poison the jury on something having nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of George Zimmerman.
It’s all coming together in this case.
Racial politics supported by State power.
I hope the jury views the evidence with the dispassion of the original prosecutors. I fear it will not.
Update: Other astute observations:
“Welcome to Trayvongate, where the President of the United States used both the bully pulpit, the Department of Justice and sly media manipulation to gin up charges of racism in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin shooting. Now that the trial is almost finished and the only act of racism mentioned so far came from the victim–Martin called Zimmerman ‘a creepy ass cracker’ according to testimony–the cynical and repeated use of the race card by the White house is even more abhorrent.”
A reader at Althouse (h/t Instapundit):
“Look at the residents of this ‘gated community’ who lived just in that one spot. It is more diverse than a Democrat photo-op. This neighborhood had young and old, Asians and blacks and whites and Hispanics all living next to each other in peace, but needing a gates and a neighborhood watch to protect themselves from outsiders.”
This case never was about race. It’s infuriating and disheartening how the narrative was manipulated, and how the State was a party to it.
Update 7-11-2013: Add this Bill Lee interview to the mountain of evidence that the prosecution of George Zimmerman has been a political scam.
Ex-Sanford police chief: Zimmerman probe ‘taken away from us’
The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked “in a number of ways” by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial, told CNN’s George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
“It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn’t care if it got dismissed later,” he said. “You don’t do that.”
When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a “sound” investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
(video via Common Cents)
New post: Breaking – State moves to charge Zimmerman with 3d Degree Murder based on Aggravated Child Abuse
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That is my concern as well, it really looks like the fix is in for some kind of conviction. The immediate result of this if I am correct is that respect for law and order and the justice system is going to take quite a hit. The other consequence is it will polarize the country on yet another subject.
I share you concern. We just this jury gets it. For George Zimmerman’s sake I hope they do. While I would stand as O’Mara walks by, I really do not want to see this be like To Kill A Mockingbird.
Strangely enough so does the Obama administration. The Zimmerman indictment helped get out the vote in 2012. They want an acquittal now to fire up their base. Last thing they want is outraged “White Hispanics” just before the mid terms…
Quote EBL: “Strangely enough so does the Obama administration. The Zimmerman indictment helped get out the vote in 2012. They want an acquittal now to fire up their base. Last thing they want is outraged “White Hispanics” just before the mid terms…”
No matter how hard Obama & Co. attempt to wipe their fingerprints off of this mess it is not going to work this time. The administration is going to pay a high cost this time.
Will White Hispanics riot if George Zimmerman is found guilty?
My fear is that the jury will agree to a compromise verdict of manslaughter or aggravated assault. Under Florida law that could net GZ life in prison.
Can you imagine a victim of the Left’s political lynching put away for 30 years for defending himself when he had reasonable fear of great bodily harm?
I can imagine it. It’s the next logical step for Liberal Fascism: You don’t confront, harm, or kill a member of the Democrat’s political base.
In other words, you run the other direction for not only your freaking life, buy your ability to be a member of productive society. Their isn’t a committed Democrat Leftist in America that would give George Zimmerman the time of day, let alone hire him for a job.
It’s frightening what this country is becoming, but it is a matter of morals truly more than a matter of law. Laws cannot fix the people who enforce the laws and the people are under them.
Only morality can do that. Morality that produces virtuous people who apply that in how they think and how they act rather than taking the shorter route. And morality comes from Christ.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
What happened to this once-great nation? We are becoming the nation of that is “The home of the depraved, and the land of the slave.” Freedom? a nation founded on the rule of law? Everything is being turned upside down.
Perhaps the Egyptian solution is becoming appropriate for this back-water has-been of a nation.
Okay, I’m depressed, but the situation is revolting, and the time is right for a revolution.
What happened is America is forgetting/has forgotten the God who shed His grace on her. What is the source of morality without the Divine? What is the basis of rights and freedom? With atheists ascendant and standing a meaningless monument next to the stone of the Decalogue in FL; with Democrats chanting “hail, Satan!”; and with Judaeo-Christians increasingly under attack from the government, as well as homosexuals and atheists, matters of right and wrong are what a man says it is based in his whim, as opposed to any idea of the absolute.
The law is what Obama says it is, and it is to be implemented only when he says it is because government has replaced God and this POTUS is the divinity who must be obeyed.
This case is just a symptom, and the sickness will spread until We, the People, act to restore both God and the rule of law to their proper place in our society.
I find myself being guilty of excessive optimism quite a bit lately, but I just can’t imagine 6 people finding him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of murder 2 or manslaughter based on this set of facts.
If the jury instructions are appropriate and they have been threatened/bought off/otherwise compromised, this is a mistrial at worst but more likely an acquittal. He’s simply not guilty and the facts cannot be manipulated to show anything else.
Then again, I’ve been shocked so many times lately that now a day that goes by without some outrage is what shocks me.
…haven’t been threatened…
I’m concerned that jury members will remember how activists placed on line the name, address, etc, of the policeman who supposedly shot Scott Olsen in the head at the Occupy Oakland protest.
If the jury finds Zimmerman not guilty, there’ll almost certainly be an army of hacktivists trying to put jurists’ personal info on line.
Unfortunately I fear you are correct. Given Judge Nelson’s latest outburst trying to get GZ to take the the stand and testify late this afternoon, I have no doubt that someone in that courtroom with access to juror information will leak it out somehow.
I am concerned and afraid for our country, more than ever.
“Given Judge Nelson’s latest outburst trying to get GZ to take the the stand and testify late this afternoon…”
That was not an “outburst”. It was mandatory procedure.
It was too early. The prosecution hadn’t finished questioning the other defense witnesses. That is why West objected and MOM asked, what is going on here?
It was too early but in the end not that big of a deal. I do feel bad for GZ because he was clearly taken back by it.
It really is just another example of her ham-handed approach to overseeing this trial. I’ll be glad when this is over just so I can put her out of my mind.
It is mandatory procedure to respectfully ask the question and get the defendant to put it on the record. She went way beyond that and the timing was all off. It was apparent she was trying to get Zimmerman to falter so she could get him on the stand.
This judge is a disgrace.
It’s mandatory to force the issue before Defense is ready to rest? It’s mandatory to overrule Defense counsel’s objection before he could even put the objection on the record?
Where is that mandatory?
Go back and read the information on these jurors – most of them were picked precisely because they had little to no knowledge of this case going in.
We’ve all been immersed in this case for months now – these ladies have only heard what has been presented to them in court.
Give them a chance to surprise us –
I hope you are right.
“The information that was presented to them in court” was not the true picture of the one who committed felonious assault or his motives, proclivities, the drug, fighting, stealing, punching a bus driver, looking to buy a gun, photos of guns, porn, etc. on his phone.
They never even got to see a recent photo of Trayvon Martin.
They did get a lot of pre-trial publicity about 12 year old sweet angel Trayvon and white racist vigilante from the Crump/Julison/Parks/Jackson narrative and the media that published it.
That is, Trayvon Martin, under the influence of drugs, committed felonious assault on George Zimmerman.
What is needed is a more vigorous prosecution of the Drug War. Police say they only get 10% of the flows. We need to up that to 15%. /sarc
Not everything is about the “war on drugs”, MSimon, or suits being co-opted into the battle for drug legalization. This case, for instance.
One thing I think people underestimate. These are people who said they don’t watch the news much. The predominant reason they don’t watch the news much is that they don’t trust it. I would subnit that that means there is a right leaning bent to the jury.
Further they are mostly mothers. The pundits say that this means that they are more likely to feel sympathy for TM, but:
1) Mothers have very good bullshit meters.
2) Mothers are used to people threatening to do things to get what they want: things like hold their breath till they turn blue, throw temper tantrums … riot.
Plus two jurors were gun owners.
I figure that if a stealth juror gets on we will have a hung jury, otherwise an acquittal.
Thankfully, most people don’t watch these things at this level. I suspect that if you were to ask these jurors about that, none of them would know what you were talking about.
I am afraid of guilt to manslaughter. The state failed to prove a case that shouldn’t have been brought, in front of a judge who was biased against the defense.
A sinking feeling.
Agree. Very bad feeling. I recall before the OJ verdict thinking, “this will be good for the country. It’s so obvious he’s guilty.” I had hoped that it would help race relations for such an obviously guilty man to be judged guilty by, as Eric Holder calls them, his people.
My worry today is that this all female jury is full of Obama voters. Lord only knows why they make the decisions they make.
White females, and over-30s of either sex, are not demographics Obama won here in Florida.
Zimmerman’s former lawyer alluded to it in these Eight Minutes You Missed.
And Daniel Greenfield has penned the eulogy.
Ok that was so good I might need a cigarette 😀
That was a Joan of Argghh classic comment here at LI for those who are new for the trial.
They could run those 8 minutes for the closing arguments.
As I watch this video (and identify with his frustration), the saddest part is that over a year later after all of the witnesses have spoken, all of the evidence has been dissected, and all of the cross examination we’ve seen, absolutely nothing has changed. Not a single iota of evidence counters GZ’s account of events.
Rick Scott allowed this to happen. In the event of a conviction, he needs to move immediately to grant Zimmerman a full and unconditional pardon, riots or not.
And the entire prosecution team and the judge should be disbarred and prosecuted themselves for malicious prosecution.
Then you’ll have a direct parallel to the Leo Frank (Cornell ’06, BTW) case (falsely convicted of the murder of Mary Phagan in Georgia in 1913). When Jack Slaton commuted Frank’s sentence to life, Frank was dragged out of jail and lynched; Slaton’s political career was ended. I fear for George Zimmerman’s safety.
And the irony of all of this is, the importance of a self defense, defense
A show trial like the ones in Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. The guilt had been determined but they needed a fall guy to pin their agenda on.
In this case they want to continue racial politics and maybe put a dent in your right to defend yourself with I dare say, a gun.
The Reichstag is burning.
Bingo — it is a two-pronged attack: fomenting racial unrest, and intimidating gun owners from defending themselves.
No matter what happens to Zimmerman, in the next month or so I expect approximately 50 black males between 18-25 to be killed by other black males. The the racial grievance industry won’t give a shit.
25 or more will be in Chicago. Maybe in one weekend.
I think 75-80 or so blacks were shot in Chicago last weekend. Where is the outrage? Where is the media coverage? Oh, I forgot, this was black on black, not Hispanic on black.
Four shot in Rockford a few days ago.
There was a 17-year-old who looked a bit like Trayvon, right here in Florida, shot while riding his bicycle. During the first week of this trial.
Didn’t hear about it? Might that have something to do with the race of the suspected shooter…?
I have no fear.
George was on the phone to the police, talked to the police after the shooting, and had his head and face pummeled.
That’s beyond the law, in the realm of common sense.
If all 6 agree he murdered Martin, well, none of us, including the jurors, have no chance in America.
I think they’ll come to realize this.
Further, the new and improved Martin family attorney admitted that murder 2 is off the table (just now, CNN)
That leaves but one person that I know of that still believes the charges the State brought against Zimmerman hold water:
Sunny Hostin.
According to CNN the are including manslaughter and aggravated assault, murder 2 is still on the table
tanks. i needed that:)
Who is the new and improved Martin attorney?
The Martins and their former(?) attorneys Crump, Parks and Jackson need the services of a criminal lawyer now.
He called the police first because he had a Ph.D. in alibis!
/sarc
My wife and I watched the entire trial today and after it was all over and we were preparing to have supper, I told her that I have a bad feeling about this jury and my gut tells me that this all woman jury just might find him guilty. Watching the power play of the state with the judge’s aiding and abetting them whenever she can is very unsettling. And though I am not a lawyer, I just got the sense that whenever the judge did rule in favor of the defense she was legally forced to do so because of case law precedent.Just a layman’s observation. God Bless George Zimmerman and win,lose or draw, this guy’s life going forward is going to be terrible — something tells me that if he is found not guilty he and his family might be moving back to South America. What a shame if it comes to that. Poor George.
“[I]f he is found not guilty he and his family might be moving back to South America.”
“Might be”, no. They WILL have to – for their own safety.
I’m just wondering, given their record so far, if the prosecution is going to tell the jury in their closing statement that they have to come back with a guilty verdict in order to prevent the race riots that an acquittal would surely produce. That would be the icing on the cake.
They won’t say that in as many words, but that will be the subtext. They’ll mouth platitudes about protecting the community and how people can’t just go running about with guns blah blah blah, but what they’ll be implying is exactly what you said.
I hope the jury views the evidence with the dispassion of the original prosecutors. I fear it will not.
I agree. Regardless of Zimmerman’s actual guilt or innocence, I fear we are reaching a point where juries will fear to cross powerful government/media figures.
In the OJ Simpson trial, the defense made unabashed appeals to white liberal guilt and black racism. It seems that the prosecution, judge and media are attempting to use the same tactic in this case. I predict it will work, and the jury will convict Zimmerman out of a desire to avoid being labeled racist.
But I hope the jury proves me wrong. I pray I am wrong.
OJ had a black jury getting payback against whitey. This isn’t an OJ jury.
According to this website, the racial composition of OJ’s criminal trial jury was 9 black, 1 Hispanic, and 2 white:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/simpson/jurypage.html
So while the black jurors may have been looking for payback against whitey, it was white liberal guilt that managed to drag the two white jurors (both female) along.
By contrast, the Zimmerman jury is 5 white and 1 Hispanic (all female):
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/21/zimmerman-jury-homogeneous-dangerous/
So for the prosecution to win they must turn up the liberal white guilt to nuclear intensity. Failing that (a not guilty verdict or a hung jury), the media and government officials pushing this case will see a race riot as an acceptable consolation prize.
I disagree with some posters on this thread that Zimmerman’s life will be destroyed even if he is found innocent. I predict in that case Zimmerman will quickly fade away from the media’s consciousness (the “white Hispanic” gambit failed pretty miserably), and the media’s full fury and hatred will be focused on the jurors.
The Simpson murder trial also had two idiot deputy prosecutors who were more interested in publicity and trying new positions . .. in the same bed.
Anytime drama and emotion enter the room it’s manipulation time. And when a portion of society is vulnerable because they can’t think above their heart, then drama and emotion become hubristic and threatening – and bullying. The judge in the Martin case has lost decorum several times thereby manipulating the jury. I would call it a legal soap opera or
more importantly a mistrial.
I just have a simple question. Why do we not have people fearing riots if there is a guilty verdict? That would be an outcome deserving of a riot, yet no fear. This is what must change if we can successfully combat the race and grievance mongers.
Yeah, I have thought of that angle myself.
Maybe we should go out and burn down a Whole Foods and a Trader Joes??? 😉
Not advocating burning stuff, just promoting a massive peaceful demonstration to condemn the Race and Grievance hustlers that forced this case to trial and influenced the jury which would never convict on any charge based on the facts of the trial.
hope im wrong, but not gonna happen. the masses are eatin this racism revealed up as fast as the supermedia/govt. can produce it.
Unfortunately the people who will be most outraged by a guilty verdict must go to work to support their families as well as the freeloafers who seem to overcome all their “disabilities” by some miracle. All of a sudden those who “cant” work can stand for hours & hours in the heat to go to political events or to “protest” . Meanwhile the taxpayers struggle with increasing food, gas, etc prices & lose sleep at night worrying about keeping what they have WORKED FOR!! So the result is REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! & we go to work holding our prideful heads high while others sit on enormous assessed fed by taxpayers, watch “the 23rd guy be tested to find out if he be the babbydaddy” – “cause he gots 2 eyes just like he daddy”! The best is they think its “free” or a gift from the “gubmint” ! Sorry, its not free, not to the poor bastard whose sweat pays your bills as well as their own.
These race hustlers have soiled the names of the poor who worked to get out of poverty. Those who proudly exclaimed “I want out of the welfare cycle” !
Regardless of race – there will always be those who abuse the system, but the encouragement to do so at record levels needs to be condemned loudly by taxpayers……to bad we are too exhausted after work to do so!
Watch out J. Crew and Brooks Brothers – I’m headed your way!! Hopefully there’s a Vineyard Vines shop in the area, too.
The very people who would be upset by a guilty verdict are the ones that do not believe in rioting in the first place
Oh, I think there will still be rioting. It’ll just be celebratory riots – turning over cars, looting, and burning stores. Just that the rioters will be saying, “Yay!” while they do it. Which makes it so much better, doesn’t it?
They are just waiting for any verdict, all over twitter & facebook they are bragging how after verdict they will be getting new flat screens & sneakers. Its quite disgusting!!!!
As a 31 year old white, college educated, Professionally licsensed in several fields self made blank business owner/landlord……I for the first time in my life am prepared to riot LOL if there is a guilty verdict ………..
I guarantee I have called the NEN and filed more police reports than GZ ever has dreamed of……along with following ” suspects” while on the phone and carrying……and I am 6’4 230ish and while I am “gym strong ” I have no desire at all for any kind of confrontation at all even though I probably could/should win, I would avoid it at all costs……this trial is my worst nightmare
I hope I am not too optimistic, but I just don’t think there is any way we will see a guilty verdict.
Yes, all you say about the political pressure and corrupt prosecution is correct, but these six ladies saw the same trial we did and were not corrupted by much of what you speak.
I would be lying if I said I had no worry at all, but I truly believe the a hung jury will be the worst thing we see, with a full acquittal as the most likely.
I have FAITH in good, smart citizens (regardless of the last election) who have seen what a zoo our government has become.
I have faith in these six lady jurors.
I think the Judge (who I could care less about) and jurors (who I fear for) must be struggling what may happen to them in a not-guilty verdict.
Not guilty SIR (hopefully)
i fear your faith is weak (“hopefully”), but given that this is a florida jury, it could only be weak….alas, I share it ,hopefully.
“Not Guilty” probably better serves Obama and the 2014 elections … so I’d bet on that. The rabble will not be roused with a guilty verdict.
But then, a guilty verdict puts all white-Hispanic or white-Germanic on notice, just as the tea party is on notice, and any candidate that Lois Lerner deems a threat to the union army. Every once in a while they need to drag some innocent out in the public square and hang them, to keep people in line. /sarc
Obama can not run again dont you remember history class or American government, a president can only run for 2 terms which is equal to 8 years. it might server the next president if he was black too
there are other ways to “serve Obama” than the elections, and 2014 in not for president anyway.
I think Venezuela had Presidential term limits too before Chavez decided he needed to stay. To be sure Obama already has Executive Order xx,xxx prepared to sign on some Friday night before a long holiday weekend immediately after some major newsstory eliminating Presidential term limits.
I think real likelihood this jury ends hung. The next trial will have a better case from the state since they know the defenses gameplans. There is just too much likelihood one of these jurors is scared, co-opted, irrational, or all three.
A better case from the State? You mean, they’ll call NO witnesses? 😉
I doubt that in their hearts and souls that any of the prosecutors in this case believe that GZ is guilty of any crime. And if my instinct is correct, that is a very frightening proposition: That someone would prosecute another human being and seek to have them locked up for life when they believe that the accused is innocent under the law.
From my perspective, this case has turned into a high-priced, high-publicity, “game” to a prosecution team that is simply desirous of winning at any cost and, presumably, bolstering their own careers.
The prosecutors in this case can attempt to rationalize their bringing this case to court by falling back on the cop-out rationale that “it is up to jury to decide if GZ is guilty or not.” But that is not what prosecutors are supposed to do. Rather, they are duty-bound not to bring criminal charges against a defendant unless they subjectively believe that there is objective evidence that is sufficient to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This case never met that standard. And all of the race-based rhetoric that motivated politicians, such as the Florida governor, to go after GZ can’t change the unalterable fact that no ethical prosecutor, regardless of their own ambitions, would have filed this case.
Regardless of the outcome in this case, the prosecutors have a lot of explaining to do … to themselves.
Prosecutor John Guy may have political aspirations if he plays his (race) cards right and he has the connections and is willing to follow orders.
The others are less likely to grace a political poster state-wide or outside the state, but they seem willing to follow orders from above and do the wrong thing.
The “We were just following orders defense” doesn’t cut it. Never did. Never will.
if people are thinking this will be a hung jury, how long do you think nelson will let them deliberate?
At least three days. I’m more intrigued by the nature of the “dynamite” charge she’ll give them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamite_charge
This trial attracted viewers. Even, here, this site saw a big rise in viewers coming here just to connect to the trial Live.
I know we’ve been told the audience is mainly made of couch potatoes, who live for their soaps. And, the media tends to skew it shows towards them. I don’t buy this for a minute!
Back when the senate hearing were on-going, against Richard Nixon, I was in Florida, vacationing. And, I remember females very angry that the Irwin Commission had bounced their soaps off the air. But that attitude was much in the minority.
We’re here, again. And, most of us know the shock of watching the OJ trial. And, the subsequent NG verdict it produced.
Here, the Zimmerman case even rises higher. Why? Because many Americans don’t do rioting demonstrations. Though, if we did, I think Florida would see an influx of Winnebago’s, carrying most of America’s retired community coming out to show support. (You should see how Winnebago’s show up for the Rose Parade!)
Drudge had up a statistic that 94% of Americans polled, favored George Zimmerman.
As to the floozy in the robe, she’s batshit crazy! If the legal profession has no way of calling her out, then your profession is in the gutter.
Will anyone pay a political price? I’ve already said so. I said Governor Rick Scott should save his money, and not run for re-election.
I can remember back to 1968, when it finally dawned on LBJ to “just go home” rather than face defeat in seeking a second term.
What will the jury do? All of us watching the trial have no idea at all what these 6 females look like. You say the biggest mystery is the verdict. No, sez I. It’s the faces of these female jurors. Their judgment will be secondary.
They’ll get their five minutes of fame.
But if they “guess wrong?” Because they haven’t see the whole show like we have seen? They’ll still be asked to tell us their opinions of what they saw when they were in the courtroom.
And, last but not least, the grey rubber dummy that Guy mounted. There will be lasting impressions, ahead.
Who knows? Maybe, I’m not the only person who thinks those flapping doors, that let people who “passed the bar” … emote like priests. While we, the serfs, begin to see the stage isn’t as holy a place as it should be.
I’m keeping an open mind on how this miscarriage of justice trails off. And, for all we know? Maybe, we’ll see emerging talents? Something on the order of Mark Twain … who got to rise above all the hoopla of his time. Into our time. While his works remain entertaining. Generation in. And, generation out.
I think the judge’s robes must have itched, only when dealing with the defense, thus putting her in a one-sided irritable mood.
Hey now, “Mr. Doll ” was my favorite witness….
That judge is about the ugliest woman I have ever seen. What is on the inside shows on the outside
If he is found guilty, there will be rioting – in “celebration.” And Zimmerman’s life is as good as gone if he goes to prison.
If he is found not guilty, there will be rioting – for “injustice” and raaaacissssmmmmm, they’ll claim. And Zimmerman’s life, his family, and all the jurors lives, will be worth ZERO, living with a target on their backs forever.
Poor Zimmerman and his family. This is a glimpse of the future in an Obama-esque America – not the United States anymore, but Obama-America.
There is no justice in this.
Obama has injected his poison into this oh, so well. Holder, Sharpton, Jackson are his henchmen…..but it all comes down squarely on Obama, who personally linked himself with Trayvon Martin.
Obama a “post-racial president,” my a$$.
Please excuse my passive comment, but altercations/murders happen like this in South Memphis every day. And no one gives a hot damn. And no one did in this one cared as well, until the race-baiters got involved. Anything less than exoneration is unfair, but not unexpected. And the race-baiters should be held to account. But won’t.
Most (not all) of the Democrat Party again being the party of racism and lynching.
guesstimating what a florida jury might do is about as dangerous as predicting what a california one might offer. but the zimmerman truth has a couple of things going for it, maybe: one, its obvious; two, six, not 12 jurors. three, the prosecution team. four, six women. (the last thing todays kick ass, tough, newly ready for special forces, modern woman wants to be is not strong. Or intimidated. hell they might vote to convict to prove their manhood. maybe they watch tv at night).
I agree but for the six-not-twelve factor…. will make it harder for a holdout in case the majority of jurors are leaning towards conviction.
in that case, hopefully, kick ass tv annie oakley will rise up and say: not on my watch. but i really cant conceive of 5 people voting to convict anyone based on what we’ve seen here. still, casey anthony, casey anthony. haunting, isn’t it?
The Dersh himself just said that if there is civil unrest following what he assumes will be an acquittal, the fault lies squarely on the shoulders of Angela Corey.
Chicago politics + NSA dirt on jurors = conviction?
The Obama regime has been a Thugocracy from the first, using his power to rob, attack, punish, malign and intimidate citizens.
He is a Chicago, black supremacist, Islamist thug.
With all he has done to America, he wouldn’t blush or hesitate to have his henchmen threaten 6 women jurors and their families.
Here is the current Florida deadly force instruction:
“Physical abilities. Read in all cases
In considering the issue of self-defense, you may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of the defendant and (victim).
Read in all cases.
If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether the defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find the defendant not guilty.
However, if from the evidence you are convinced that the defendant was not justified in the use of deadly force, you should find [him] [her] guilty if all the elements of the charge have been proven.”
[as amended through 2005] Source: Florida Bar http://po.st/6gPqvF
In what universe has the State proven GZ was NOT justified “beyond a reasonable doubt”?
In no universe. And, if I was O’Mara that jury instruction would be the centerpiece of my closing argument. It would be blown up on a large poster. And I would urge the jury to read that instruction over, and over, and over, thereby bringing home the incontrovertible fact that they could only carry out their oath to follow the law by doing one thing, and one thing only: Acquitting GZ.
I’m really not religious… but right now I’m seriously praying that these jurors have the light of truth burning beneath their feet, and into their hearts. A light they can’t – won’t – turn aside.
One question is about the behavior of the judge in regard to the question of whether George Zimmerman would testify himself. The way the judge asked Mr. Zimmerman repeatedly whether the decision not to testify was his alone, and not his lawyers, seemed improper. It seemed that the judge tried to force Zimmerman to the witness stand without explicitly saying that.
Also, while I do hope the Mr. Zimmerman is acquitted, I’d also like to see Mr. Branca’s analysis of the judge, plus also Professor Jacobsen’s views, and especially on her conduct during this trial.
There is so much that just seems wrong, so very un-American, regarding this case, from the president’s announcement about the death of one who would look like his son, to the DoJ’s involvement, especially its CSR department, and lastly, the behavior of the press in regard to the case.
I do also wonder how future generations will view this case, whether if will be viewed as a watershed event or as a change point in America’s development?
Actually, the decision to testify is solely that of the Defendant. No problem with a judge directly asking if the Defendant understands that it is really SOLELY his/her decision. The last thing you want is a convicted defendant filing a post conviction relief petition claiming that s/he wanted to testify but for her/his attorney preventing them from testifying.
http://www.americanbar.org/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_dfunc_blk.html#5.2
Standard 4- 5.2 Control and Direction of the Case
(a) Certain decisions relating to the conduct of the case are ultimately for the accused and others are ultimately for defense counsel. The decisions which are to be made by the accused after full consultation with counsel include:
(i) what pleas to enter;
(ii) whether to accept a plea agreement;
(iii) whether to waive jury trial;
(iv) whether to testify in his or her own behalf; and
(v) whether to appeal.
(b) Strategic and tactical decisions should be made by defense counsel after consultation with the client where feasible and appropriate. Such decisions include what witnesses to call, whether and how to conduct cross-examination, what jurors to accept or strike, what trial motions should be made, and what evidence should be introduced.
(c) If a disagreement on significant matters of tactics or strategy arises between defense counsel and the client, defense counsel should make a record of the circumstances, counsel’s advice and reasons, and the conclusion reached. The record should be made in a manner which protects the confidentiality of the lawyer-client relationship.
I just hope and pray the Zimmerman-O’Mara-West truthful narrative utterly refutes the Crump-Julison-Martin-Sharpton-Obama lying racist emotionally-manipulative narrative.
“It’s infuriating and disheartening how the narrative was manipulated, and how the State was a party to it.”
That’s how kangaroo courts and dictatorships do it.
http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/0/F186BCDA1AF5FEF285256A83005FFBC6?OpenDocument
Debra Steinberg Nelson
Good to see she’s just on the Criminal Procedure committee. I’d really be worried about the state of the Florida judiciary if she was on the Evidence committee.
Infuriating and disheartening, indeed, Professor. I share these sentiments as well as the trepidation over the outcome of this trial.
Among the documents received through the FOIA you mentioned were several concerning Miami Dade County Community Relations Board activities of which Sabrina Fulton’s brother is a member. Within the first 10 days following the incident in Sanford, the narrative was established and marching orders issued via the Executive Committee of M-D CRB.
“..People are questioning the killing of an African-American youth during an unexplained altercation with a Sanford resident (a white male, age 25 years). The shooter was described by neighbors as a member of the NeighborhoodWatch who regularly “patrols” the area at night. We understand that Trayvon was confronted by the shooter …” (3/7/2012).
Within three weeks of the shooting these board members had arranged to conference with Pam Bondi’s office to discuss the “Stand Your Ground Law” as it applied to this and other future potential cases in Florida: “SAO STAFFERS HAVE SHARED CONCERNS ABOUT THAT LAW, AS RELATED TO THIS AND OTHER POTENTIAL CASES. THE CRB COULD BE INSTRUMENTAL IN BRINGING ABOUT CHANGE.”
Also noted in meeting minutes of 3/21/2012, “THE US DEPT. OF JUSTICE COMMUNITY RELATIONS SERVICE HAS VERBALLY REQUESTED THAT CRB STAFF GO TO SANFORD. ”
Facebook pages organizing hoodie marches and petitions hit the internet. Sabrina Fulton had paid a visit to Trayvon’s High school principal about the same time as the CRB issued its original notice (before leaving for Sanford to catch a glimpse of her dead son) and this was immediately followed by students stomping out of the classroom and into the streets. Latino activist groups (Presente.org), islamic/ Occupy Miami activists (Muhammed Malik ), ColorofChange.org and CPUSA , all the usual components of the racial grievance industrial complex were fully on board this crazy train within less than a month of the incident in Sanford.
There are some who are laying this travesty on Gov. Scott’s doorstep as he was the one who announced the selection of A. Corey as special prosecutor. I cannot emphasize this too strongly. It was in fact FL AG Pam Bondi who was the actual conduit through which the political pressure was applied, both within the state as well as DOJ in DC. It was she who selected Corey. It was her office, members of her team that volunteered to examine SYG law as written in FS.
Along with a whole cast of scoundrels in this horror movie, Pam Bondi has got to be removed from office. Having voted for her, I am now deeply disgusted and disappointed by her performance in office. And I fear, like A. Corey and judge Nelson, she may run unopposed in this next election.
CPUSA.
That figures.
These are hard-core, ruthless ideologues.
This is Obama’s base.
A couple of tornado warnings interrupted my comment stream…
I have a bad feeling about Prof. Jacobson’s bad feeling. A jury trial is, indeed, hard to handicap. He should have never been arrested. Hang in there, GZ. Hang in there.
Was Prof. Jacobson arrested? Already?
Lousy typist. Meant to type a dollar sign. Which requires me hitting the shift key. So here’s the correction. In 2010 Rick Scott spent $25-million of his own money, selling himself as the “new new thing” as governor. He spent enough, because he became governor.
The Zimmerman “conviction” was going to zoom him into the White House. As a republican, no less.
Mr. Jacobson’s analysis seems reasonable to me and scares me to the core. I view the outcome of this trial as a fork in the road that hopefully will be indicative of a desperately needed course correction. The last major fork I witnessed was the 2012 presidential election and it shocked me in which direction it took and has made me fearful that it may never be possible to recover from that mistake. I still, though, remain positive for a full acquittal in this trial and here’s why:
I’m a conservative living in New York City and where I live a majority of non-criminals think that carrying a concealed weapon, or any weapon for that matter, is scary and means that you’re paranoid and dangerous and might for no reason just decide to shoot someone. Yes it is completely irrational but there is no discussion to be had with them. If Zimmerman’s jury was selected from people in Manhattan I can’t imagine him getting off with anything less than a manslaughter charge. But Florida seems to me to be different. I was there several years ago, in Ft. Lauderdale, on a consulting job for a liberal non-profit. At the end of the three day job a very nice woman (late 40s or early 50s) was driving me back to the airport. I seem to recall that I mentioned something positive about gun control laws in her state. She responded letting me know she had a weapon under the seat of her car and said something along the lines of, “I’m not going to get raped or have my car stolen.” I said, “Good for you.” While this is insignificant anecdotal evidence it did strike me just how different the culture around guns and self-defense differs between where I live and she lives. I’m desperately hoping for that course correction and feel strongly that it will occur.
“the Community Relations Service (CRS), was deployed to Sanford, FL, following the Trayvon Martin shooting to help organize and manage rallies and protests against George Zimmerman.” — — How is this not conversion of public resources for personal use. There is no legitimate public purpose behind organizing protests using government resources?? Hasn’t a crime been committed?
It’s a brave new world. And I don’t like it.
I want to know how that CRS deployment doesn’t automatically invalidate any possibility of a guilty verdict. How can a government that is organizing protests (since when does the government organize protests?) simultaneously prosecute the same individual those “protests” are demanding that they prosecute? Brave New World, 1984 indeed.
Think that there should probably be some civil rights suits here. We have evidence that both the state and the feds tried to poison the community, and thus jury pool, against GZ, depriving him of due process, then the same state indicts in a highly politicized way, after the local authorities decide not to. The judge didn’t help, though she is probably not really culpable under the CR laws.
The rule of law went out the window when the Black Panthers case was dismissed and hasn’t returned since.
I am actually expecting a “Hung Jury”. I have to believe that at least one of those 6 women have brains enough to see what has really happened and stand for justice.
Just as in the OJ Simpson trial, the jury did not hear or see all of the trial that we saw. They only know what was presented and allowed to be presented. They’ve no idea of all the evidence the judge would not allow for reasons known only to her, but we can pretty accurately guess. I’ve a feeling George Zimmerman will be found guilty of at least the lesser charged crime.
An appeal will be immediately filed, but won’t get to court until after November 2014 at which time he will be freed because he will have served his purpose to the Obama* administration.
The Heritage Foundation article on the DoJ abuse of power in the Martin-Zimmerman case.
“Created by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it is supposed to assist in “preventing and resolving racial and ethnic tensions, incidents, and civil disorders, and in restoring racial stability and harmony.” It is not supposed to be raising racial tensions by helping to organize protests.
The Community Relations Service says on its website that it “does not take sides among disputing parties” and provides “impartial conciliation and meditation services.” Apparently, it failed to avoid taking sides or provide “impartial” services in Sanford, Florida.”
In short, Obama used the DoJ, his race industry cronies to publicize, propagandize and inflame sentiment about this case to Organize For Action and win in FL.
Prediction: The ladies of the jury will be afraid of the state and the violent consequences by the TM supporters. They will therefore rationalize GZ’s guilt and vote guilty.
This is assuming that they are not Obama supporters, in which case the lead juror will convince and shame the wavering ones to vote guilty, just like in the election.
The chance that all 6 women are rational and will have the courage to vote not guilty is slim to none IMO.
I hope I’m wrong.
My concern is that a jury consisting entirely of women may try for a compromise verdict simply because it’s a compromise. Basically, Sandra O’Connor effect. For Zimmerman that would mean conviction on the “lesser charge” of manslaughter. Rubbish, of course; legitimate self-defense absolves him of manslaughter as well as murder 2. But the jury instructions are going to be complex, and Nelson certainly isn’t going to try to make them clearer. And she’ll snap at the defense if it tries to clarify anything.
Sharpton got nailed, too. But, as is the case with most clowns, someone else paid for his clowning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/15/nyregion/sharpton-s-debt-in-brawley-defamation-is-paid-by-supporters.html
Well I’m pretty confident that he will be quickly acquitted, i.e. in half a day or less.
This is one for the history books. If OJ brought in the era of AAs can do no wrong – where will this lead?
I would like to mention that Gz has handled the extreme situation very well.
Chicago, D.C.
It is important to realize that historically speaking – more white people have been lynched in this country than black people. (True fact.)
Cite?
What has happened to the rule of law and more importantly can it be fixed? This whole case is a repeat of 2006 in the Michael Lee Anderson boot trial case…right down to the letter. The same characters namely Crump, Jackson, Sharpton, NAACP and then Senator Obama whipped up such a racial furor that a prominent ME and a commisioner were removed from their jobs,8 guards were charged with manslaughter and the media did their job of fueling the fire.It is exactly what has happened in this case even the family of the boy using an old picture in the media. The end result was the guards were found not guilty, the boys family got 2.5 million and a lot of innocent lives were ruined.It seems now to be the MO and now it’s poor Mr. Zimmerman’s turn and I want to know why no-one is stopping this injustice. This case is even worse because it also involves a gun and the lesson here will be..even if you own a legal gun and use it to save your life,we still have the power to put you in jail.They want it to have a chilling affect on gun owners. If you don’t bend to our will we will criminalize you. I feel so sorry for Mr. Zimmerman and so helpless to do anything but I’m hopefull that this jury will be as wise as the 2006 was and find him innocent. When will the public stand up and say enough and do something about this injustice in the so-called justice system.
I don’t share your assumption of GZ having a wise jury!
SO, OBAMA HAS DONE THIS KIND OF CR*P BEFORE?
Using the system of justice and law for his own political gain?
This makes me 4+++ spitting angry.
We now know what Obama’s (quickly approved by the IRS) new tax deductible organization, OFA really stands for:
Obama F***s America.
Community organization are code words for creating disorder, perverting and diverting justice and gaining power by the Communist party.
Do believe you are right on target, Uncle Samuel.I share the same thoughts.
From this devious bastards original indications of:
1. Born in Kenya
2. To my knowledge, still NO release of “his” Columbia college status, including grades.
3. Images of him in various Islamic ‘dress’.
4. Despise of Israel and of Jews in general.
5. Pushing the Race Card, hard and heavy, when advantageous to HIS cause(s).
6. Words ousting an NON-saint in Mubarak, yet silent and miffed that Morsi has been ousted.
The list seemingly could go on forever.
One, or so, prior to his graduating with honor(s)in Neo-Marxism
I may NOT live to see it, but the very real possibility, of by EDICT crushing the two-term limit. As stated a devious bastard of the first order.
ACCORDING TO MASSAD AYOOB, in the Zimmerman case, the New Black Panther Party literally committed crime of Solicitation of kidnapping and murder putting out $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman’s head.(audio) http://www.cato.org/multimedia/daily-podcast/some-clarity-self-defense
Spike Lee was not far behind in criminal behavior when he published the name and address of the wrong George Zimmerman and urged the racists to harm him.
Crump’s false narrative, distorting evidence, the media and the justice system and prosecution going along with that narrative, are criminal offenses.
Sass207
I believe you mean Martin Lee Anderson (rather than Michael).
I looked up the case and got plenty of information, but no mention of then-Senator Barack Obama being involved.
Where would this information be available? Thanks.
I watched the OJ case. Gavel to gavel. The prosecution did not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
And the DNA evidence? The LA crime lab was sloppy as hell.
And you had what looked like to me the LAPD planting evidence. Well proved in the Rampart scandal a few years later. That tainted all the evidence.
What I see re: OJ is a mirror of what I see re: Zimmerman. People with their minds made up.
I fully accept that OJ was probably guilty. The prosecution didn’t prove it.
Absolutely right. The prosecution screwed up.
I still don’t see it. I started questioning the case when I found that Mark Furhman had (illegally) gone over the wall into OJ’s compound,, and that was where some of the incriminating evidence was found. Why should we believe cops who would lie to the judge about why they didn’t bother to get a warrant to search the place?
The other part of it is that I could never get straight whether it was supposed to be a crime of passion or a crime of premeditation. Visibly it looked like a crime of passion, but would have taken almost split second timing and a lot of planning.
Then, we find out just how stupid the guy really is, when he thinks that he can go into a casino in Las Vegas with a gun to reacquire stuff that he had lost in a lawsuit by the Goldman family. Pretty much everyone in NV knows that it is a crime to even walk in the door of a casino there with a firearm, and there is probably nowhere outside government facilities that have as much video surveillance. I just find it quite hard to reconcile the planning of the murder(s) with anyone stupid enough to do what he tried to do in the casino in Las Vegas.
I don’t see a similarity between the Simpson case and the Zimmerman case, except that the prosecution team in both cases is not very good. The police had a compelling argument for entering the grounds of the Simpson estate and even the house, with the permission of Simpson’s daughter, based upon exigent circumstances. If it was a crime of passion committed by an ex-husband, a very plausible scenario, it is not uncommon for the murderer to then attempt to end his own life. To delay could have been catastrophic, if such were the case. That such was not the case was fortunate for Mr. Simpson. This was never adequately explored by the prosecution.
Also, there was a very strong circumstantial case against Simpson and the evidence collection errors really were minor. It was a case that could have reasonably been decided either way. And it ended in Simpson’s acquittal.
The Zimmerman case, on the other hand, was almost a classic open and shut self defense case. There is absolutely no dispute over who shot TM. There is no reasonable dispute that GZ suffered a significant physical assault. There is no reasonable dispute that TM was bending over GZ when GZ shot him. There is absolutely no evidence that GZ followed TM with the intent of shooting him or harming him in any way. There is strong evidence that GZ was not the physical aggressor, as TM had no evidence of ever being struck and GZ had an abundance of such injury. There was never any good faith case against GZ. This was simply a malicious prosecution carried out for political gain. Something that stands totally against every precept that this nation was founded upon. This case can not, reasonably, result in any verdict other than acquittal. If it does, result in a conviction, then the consequences could be very dire.
“I don’t see a similarity between the Simpson case and the Zimmerman case”
People had their minds made up before they saw the State’s case. And few changed their minds. And the MSM was lousy in telling what went on in court.
That is the main similarity.
And the blood on the gate reeked “plant”. Once that is in the juror’s minds it is hard to prove anything.
And 3 years later it was shown that a wide swath of the LAPD were planters.
I fail to understand how the prosecution failing to prove OJ did it has anything to do with the state railroading Zimmerman.
The prosecution in this trial did nothing to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did anything beyond defending himself, yet he will more then likely spend the rest of his life in prison, thanks to the fact that America has it’s first Affirmative Action President.
I am disgusted with this whole thing, as should anyone else who fails to see the dangerous president being set here.
I would not presume to speak for M. Simon, but I believe the connection he makes between OJ and GZ trials is that both have a racial component that has prejudiced many peoples’ presumption of innocence or guilt, and that in both cases the prosecution hasn’t proven its case (IMHO in the former due to incompetence and overconfidence, in the latter due to a profound lack of real useful evidence).
Correct Dave.
I did not miss the animal reference; nor have i missed the mostly white all woman jury. I am also wondering which will be a game breaker IMO if the judge allows so many punishments for the jurors to choose from.
Once again? Hispanic people are considered white?
It’s a relative concept. About ten years ago I remembered reading about a shooting by a Latino police officer of a black person in Miami and the officer was considered “white.” At about the same time, there was an incident with a Caucasian police officer accused of abusing a Latino suspect who was identified as “Hispanic.”
So basically Hispanics/Latinos may be considered either “white” or “Hispanic/Latino” only insofar as the identification supports the narrative of “whitey is racist.”
I hope that helps.
I am curious as to who the gentleman is who sits in the front row of the gallery everyday? He is somewhat balding with silver gray hair and never shows any expression and looks forward the entire time he is there.
He is George Zimmerman’s escort (either police or private bodyguard) in the morning and a younger fully bald male is the afternoon and evening escort.
Thanks for your response. Appreciate.
I do suspect the American people are being played, as usual, for suckers which includes all people of all colors and political views.
The spectacle we are witnessing would rival the biggest con job in the world, Barnum and Bailey.
At least Barnum & Bailey’s clowns were professional…
I have a couple of questions.
I have read on some blogs that in Florida the jail time for a lesser charge could be in the area of 25 years because the victim was legally a child and a gun was involved.
Is that accurate?
Does the jury know before hand or have a chart showing what amount of jail time each charge incurs?
Can a defense attorney tell the jury the ramifications of a lesser charge in their closing argument?
Thanks in advance.
That is correct. Both charges come with 30 years. Jury won’t get to hear that and if they convict on a lesser charge thinking the punishment is also less they will be shocked once they get out of sequestration and learn the truth.
For some reason the defense is not permitted to introduce that info.
This farce of a show trial — put on without a scintilla of evidence to support a finding of probable cause to support an indictment; pursued solely to placate the bloodlust of the race-baiting black “leaders,” to appease the black community at large and proponents of the theory of perpetual black victimization, and to promote the political careers of self-aggrandizing prosecutors and politicians, with the aid of a compliant, biased and lazy liberal media which actively seeks to promote the narrative of perpetual black victimization at the hands of ceaseless white racism, truth be damned — will mercifully come to a conclusion, hopefully with the only outcome which is appropriate, given the total paucity of evidence provided by the State to support its baseless charges, to wit, an acquittal.
Any property damage and bloodshed resulting from Zimmerman’s acquittal can squarely be laid at the feet of Angela Corey, Obama, Sharpton, Jackson, et. al, the rush-to-judgment race baiters who fanned the flames of this case from the outset, for whom truth was not as important as reflexive, blind solidarity with the Martin family based on nothing more than shared skin color.
seriously doubt that Zimmerman will be acquitted. this whole thing stinks on ice.
As others have noted, it’s also incredibly ironic that, after all of the race-baiting posturing and flame-fanning, innuendo, allegations of racist motivation and character on the part of Zimmerman, etc., have been tossed around ad nauseam by the so-called black “leaders,” race victimization organizations, Obama, et al (and parroted by a compliant, biased and lazy liberal media), the evidence reveals that the only individual who used racial epithets and possessed a racist mindset on that fateful night was Trayvon Martin, who called Zimmerman both a “n!gga” and a “cracka.” The Martin family attorney tried to dismiss the significance of this by explaining — unconvincingly and rather hypocritically — that this was merely “the way teens talk.”
If this jury hangs, would Judge Farley preside over a retrial? Can the defense demonstrate her egregious partiality and request a new judge?
Would the testimony in this trial be on the record for the next? Even if prosecution could build a whole case with new and uncompromised witnesses, or question these same witnesses competently (in a way that doesn’t open all the barn doors they did this time) the defense could still make use of all the damaging testimony from this trial, calling all the witnesses the prosecution would try to bury.
Defense in a second trial would gain advantage from full discovery and time to examine the phone records (and extablish their authenticity). They’d have the benefit of deposing Crump et al. at leisure and be fully prepared. They’d simply have more points of attack on the weak prosecution case. They could be more aggressive in their opening statement, brushing back the prosecution’s hail-Mary gambits.
If there is violence in the streets over a failure to convict, will that really improve the jury pool for the prosecution?
In short, is there ANY FACTOR that improves the State’s prospects in a retrial?
In retrial state could elect not to present GZ’s hearsay statements to police, essentially “forcing” him to take the stand and undergo cross to present his side of story. The state wins most retrials after hung juries, although in part this statistic could reflect selection bias, with the state electing not to retry its weaker cases.
Or, a new trial could allow phone evidence supressed by the Police that apparrently shows Trayvon attempting to sell an unregistered 22 caliber pistol. Or, could mention the slimjim found in the bushes where Trayvon was hiding.
We all need to remember that the jury is not seeing ANY of the behind the scenes wrangling between the Judge, defense and prosecution nor are they watching ANY of the unfounded, completely false and blatantly biased comments by ALL of the so called “News” channels.
The jury is going into deliberations with only the knowledge of what they had gleaned from the witnesses in the courtroom during the last few weeks.
What worries me most is the lesser charge of aggravated assault judge Nelson is considering. The jury not knowing the sentence this carries may elect to use that to provide some level of ‘closure’ to the Martin family.
Have faith in the jury to come back with the right verdict of ‘Not guilty’.
Trials are all about how little truth the jury is allowed to hear. If you ever serve on a jury and they ask you to get up and leave the room – that means they are going to say something truthful that they do not want you to hear.
Forgive me if this has already been pointed out, but I’ve heard that the defense intends on objecting to any conviction on a lesser charge. In their minds, and I agree absolutely, an acquital of a charge based on self-defense is an acquital for all possible charges. Makes perfect sense.
If they do not object, then I would imagine they would hammer that though home in their summation.
You are correct. Judge Nelson has not yet ruled if that will be allowed. If allowed, Mark O’Mara will drive the point home to the jury that an acquittal of murder 2 is an acquittal of all charges. A lesser charge of aggravated assault is also being considered.
Aggravated assault “a reckless attack with intent to injure seriously (as with a deadly weapon).”
The state will argue that GZ’s flashlight was a deadly weapon. That was confirmed by the defense witness Dennis Root.
I really don’t see how the jury could return a guilty verdict based on that definition. TM did not have a scratch on him besides the abrasion on his knuckle and the obvious gun shot wound that was clearly put there by an act of GZ defending himself from great bodily harm by TM.
All of these lessor charges and I say charges being there are several variations is a 2 fur 1 for Obama in gun control. All the lessor charges seem to involve possession of a firearm which also could carry a stiff penalty. I don’t know how the CCW would affect it.
Listening to Rush yesterday when he did a guest appearance on The Five, and it was pointed out that we were assured that with the election of Barack Obama II, that we would finally have racial healing. And, yet, we find that the racial tensions are stronger than ever, and that the fans of such are being fanned by the same people who promised us that they would be ending. The reality is that the Dems gain and keep power nationally, and in a lot of states, by doing just that, fanning racial tensions. This got an unprecedented number of Blacks out to vote last year.
I worry here, because if GZ is convicted, a lot of people are going to believe that it was for purely racist reasons. He was indicted to get black votes. He was tried to get black votes. And, the state and feds used public monies to incite racial tensions, in order to make it more likely that he was convicted
If GZ is sacrificed that this time to appease the black community for their inability to properly raise and civilize their young black males, then who is next? Who is safe? Is it time for the middle class to start organizing itself against all the rent seekers and takers in the country? Is it time to take away much of the power that we have given these governments, if they are going to actively support those groups that attempt to destroy what we think most dear? Etc.
You worry that people will recognize evil in their government? I worry that they won’t and we will end up with a fascist state like Nazi Germany.
“…if GZ is convicted, a lot of people are going to believe that it was for purely racist reasons.”
Not to split hairs, but a lot of people already belief that the arrest and trial of George Zimmerman was in fact based solely on racist reasons. A conviction will only validate this belief.
Excellent analysis.
“Racial politics supported by State power” to ensure “Some Animals are More Equal” even if it ultimately takes riots and martial law to shove the BLT order down our throats.
What ticks me off more than anything is the BLATANT lies trying to conceal the fact that Zimmerman is of a Minority Group. He is Hispanic, not white.
I can imagine the Oh Sh!t moments in newsrooms when that hot potato was thrown in their laps and they had to juggle it to keep the heat off.
WHITE HISPANIC. That’s the ticket!
Now, if we can just wrap this case up before the majority minority group organizes to fight racism against them, we’ll be in the clear. Doesn’t matter if GZ later gets out on appeal. Appearances are all that matter. Got to save Corey, Holder, the POS, Sharpie, Jesse at all costs.
Meanwhile, the rule of law goes down the drain and just as in the Obamacare fiasco with the POS rewriting law by delaying employer mandates for another year the American People hand over another wide swath of our power to the administration fothermuckers.
What is also interesting to me is that you will not see demonstrations from La Raza in support of Zimmerman.
This is because, regardless of the actual interests of the people they pretend to represent, all Collectivist “leaders” are unified in one goal; fostering the Collective.
People like Obama actually militate fundamentally AGAINST the expressed goals and preferences of black Americans, who want school vouchers, for instance, and who are generally supporters of traditional marriage.
The Collectivist support for illegal alien amnesty is hugely against the interests of black Americans, who now suffer under the worst unemployment since at least the Great Depression.
And, let’s be clear, Zimmerman, as Glenn Reynolds points out, is more black than was Plessy of Plessy v. Ferguson. But this is not about people as individuals, or even as racial groups with their own interests.
This is about a narrative, ginned up and fanned with one purpose. Power for the Collective. That is the bald fact, and that is where we need to attack.
It’s not in La Razas interest and they really hate white people.
Zimmerman is Hispanic…or at least as Hispanic as MOST members of La Raza.
WHY is it not in La Raza’s interest? THAT was the point, see?
Ben Jealous is no MORE black than Zimmerman, by all appearances. Yet he heads the NAACP, so he is “Mr. Black”.
If La Raza hates whites, they must hate at least half of Barack H. Obama. Am I getting through…???
“This is because, regardless of the actual interests of the people they pretend to represent, all Collectivist ‘leaders’ are unified in one goal; fostering the Collective.”
Perfectly said…and I’m likely to steal the line, with attribution where appropriate. I’d add that “collectivist leaders” tend to secure their own position in the ranks of those equals that are more equal. Oink. Oink.
Admittedly, I always thought GZ’s story rang true. Further, I believe that the MSM’s disinformation campaign for this case was, and is, despicable. But I never really “liked” GZ. I always assumed he probably was a bit of a jerk (not that being a jerk makes one guilty of crime). However, after watching this case unfold in the courtroom, I now think GZ comes across as a very nice, kind man who went out of his way to help his neighbors. I’m just hoping that the jurors are also left with a favorable view of GZ.
My biggest fear is that this is Florida, so despite the fact that the state’s case is a big bag of nothing, I have no idea what the jury will do.
“My biggest fear is that this is Florida, so despite the fact that the state’s case is a big bag of nothing, I have no idea what the jury will do.”
Why that comment?
That’s just my opinion about Florida juries. I don’t think they are… predictable would be the nicest way to put it.
I don’t get any impression of GZ being a jerk. I thought for a while that he might be kind of stupid, but I don’t think that any more either. I think this was a clash of two worlds: a black male teen from a rougher neighborhood where people understand the gang/thug ethic and whose assumption is “snitches get stitches” visits a middle class neighborhood that has paid a lot of money to live in a gated community to keep that world at bay. But it didn’t work. Some thugs got behind the gates or even lived behind the gates (Emmanuel Burgess). But the neighborhood assumptions are generally middle class, with a work ethic and responsible positions in life who would have too much to lose by acting like gangsta thugs. That night, GZ was being the eyes and ears of the community for the PD as trained by the NWP trainer lady, and he was following at a distance to observe and answer the dispatcher’s questions–he was not in hot pursuit or chasing down TM. He thought he lost him but had a reasonable fear of stating his address because it was so dark around the dogwalk that he didn’t know if TM would hear the address and show up at his house. TM saw GZ as meek, weak, puffy, an easy target, and thought this would be a good opportunity to act with his catfisher on the phone to witness the fight, so he could pound a white guy (or even kill him) to get shtreet cred or fulfill a requirement of gang initiation. There were apparently going to be no witnesses in TM’s mind. He didn’t count on GZ yelling and screaming for help and drawing witness attention. He didn’t count on GZ being a CCW holder, trained, chambered, and packing. This was a clash of worlds and operating assumptions.
[…] 0845 EDT 11 JULY 2013: See also this piece from Legal Insurrection (h/t […]
I have a sliver of hope. I realize that the prosecution and TM’s parents have made much of a dead child, teenager, young boy…blah, blah, blah…trying to pull sympathy heart strings to almost breaking.
But who was on the stand as being TM’s girlfriend/friend… the 19 year old rather large woman with a very bad attitude. The only other peer presented as a witness was his 4 years older brother. A young man in his 20s who hung out with TM on a regular basis.
The impression for the jury is not some innocent child. The impression for the jury is that this was a young black man. Is it racist to be afraid of young black men or just a clear understanding of statistics? Unfortunately, groups of young black women also put me on alert… but that is because I read the local crime news and personal experience.
That jury must think, why didn’t RJ call 911 when she heard confrontation and fighting sounds, assumed it was a fight, and the call was cut off? The jury is middle class and that’s what a middle class person would do. They have to assume that RJ egged TM on and/or fighting was normal for TM and RJ wasn’t worried about TM getting beat up or losing. RJ’s not calling 911 screams volumes.
I try to imagine what could be going through the mind of the 6 women on the jury. Unfortunately, given that there are six women who in 18 months never heard of GZ or TM indicates that I can’t even begin to comprehend their mindset.
I really only started paying attention when the trial started. I am a busy person. The advantage is I hadn’t paid attention to the media campaign, so I am perceiving the evidence like these jurors are. I am in many ways like these jurors. I hope I am anticipating their framework of understanding accurately.
The State has earned a movie title, coming soon to theaters near you:
DESPICABLE THREE
The ramifications of a guilty verdict are far-reaching, much more so than the potentially violent fallout of an acquittal.
[…] Racial politics supported by State power come down on George Zimmerman […]
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[…] Racial politics supported by State power come down on George Zimmerman […]
Let’s start from the top. Trayvon Martin is dead, so unless the savior decides to raise him for a court appearance, he can’t defend himself. And absent some witness coming forward, Zimmerman would be a fool not to place the onus of the entire incident on Martin’s shoulders. A man being innocent until proven guilty in our system, he SHOULD get off.
That being said, the thing that has always irritated me about this shooting, is the utter inability of some people to ask themselves how the whole incident went down. Wounds on Zimmerman, do not mean that he didn’t in some way commence the incident, and the way I understand it, under the Florida law, you can’t instigate a fight, and then shoot the other guy when you start to lose. People talk about a nasty racial undercurrent to the trial and there is one all right. In fact I believe there are two. The first, is the automatic raising of the “black thug ” stereotype. Indeed some blacks are thugs, but not all or even most. And it’s been my experience, that thugs are not particularly dedicated. So if the weather is bad – like a dark and rainy night, they pretty much go indoors. They don’t run around in the rain and “stalk” some guy they don’t even know, who may wish them harm. The second thing, is that blacks are never allowed to be children. The seemingly spring right from the stroller to full grown “thughood”. That goes back to the attempt to blacken Martin’s reputation in order to make Zimmerman look better. For example by pointing out that his Facebook pages had all sorts of crap on them. Yes – like every other teenager out there. Any sign that a black wasn’t utterly perfect when young, is a “sure sign” that he will graduate to a lifetime career of armed robbery and murder. No doubt about it; a loud band of white teenagers is a loud band of teenagers, a loud band of black teenagers is a band of mongols bent upon rape and pillage. and I’m fairly sure I will leap through the TV screen and strangle the next poster (yes, we blacks are all violent) who justifies the shooting of a black in one place, by the actions of a black somewhere else in the country. This from people who are always bitching – justifiably – about being painted with the broad brush of “racism”. Because too many people always see “hulking black thug” when ever you say black teenager, the real tall pencil thin Martin has disappeared.
You are wrong on the law. Catch up.
Can anybody find any incidents of a black man shooting an unarmed white teenager, and being home before the body cooled? That was the original racial aspect of this entire incident – the speed with which the police conducted a perfunctory investigation, and then let Zimmerman go. AND if you believe that the Prosecution ever wanted to try Zimmerman you haven’t been paying attention. What prosecutor – who wants to win the case – puts such a collection of ill prepared witnesses on the stand? The prosecutor is simply giving it a; “see we did our best” – and trying for the outcome they wanted in the first place. Can you imagine a prosecutor in a case like this going with a white an Hispanic jury? No matter which way it goes they are going to blame the jury – watch.
[…] George Zimmerman | racial politics | prosecution. […]
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[…] The irony and the tragedy in this case are that in assuming this was a racially motivated crime, the federal and state authorities (including the president, who publicly identified with Martin by saying Martin could have been his son) turned a simple self-defense case into a racial circus. As Cornell law professor William Jacobson explained: […]
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[…] two and half years later, Sharpton fanned the flames of hatred and outrage leading to a case “which never should have been brought.” Yes Zimmerman is a free man now. But he is also a marked […]