Highland Park shooting suspect Robert Crimo III appeared in court where a judge said he would be held without bail.
Judge Theodore Potkonjak described Crimo as a “threat to the community.”
Crimo is charged with seven counts of first degree murder:
Crimo, 21, allegedly fired more than 80 rounds at a crowd of spectators Monday morning in a suburb of Chicago, killing seven people and injuring dozens, before fleeing the scene dressed as a woman, authorities said.
According to prosecutors, Crimo confessed to shooting at innocent paradegoers from a rooftop perch. He allegedly admitted to dressing up in a woman’s clothing and covering his tattoos in makeup to try and conceal is identity. After he fled the rooftop, according to prosecutors, his Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle fell out of his bag in a back alley.
Lake County Deputy Sheriff Chris Covelli said that Crimo told the police “he happened upon a gathering in or near Madison, Wis., and considered attacking people there with a rifle he had in his car” after he left the scene in Highland Park.
Crimo did not attack the group “because he had not conducted enough advance planning.”
Crimo watched the hearing via a video link from Lake County Jail. He told the judge he did not have a lawyer. His lawyer Tom Durkin “had to step aside because of an unspecified conflict of interest in the case.” He will have a public defender now.
The police also revealed how Crimo’s father helped him obtain his guns despite having a violent past.
Robert Crimo II, sponsored his son’s FOID application in December 2019 since he was only 19 years old.
Crimo II did this despite someone calling the police twice in that year because his son threatened to kill himself and his family:
In April 2019, an individual contacted the Highland Park Police Department a week after learning of Crimo’s attempted suicide, Lake County Major Crime Task Force spokesman Christopher Covelli said Tuesda
It was a delayed report, so police responded to the residence a week later and spoke with Crimo and his parents. Mental health professionals handled the matter with no further law enforcement action.
Months later in September 2019, a family member reported that Crimo had a collection of knives and said he was “going to kill everyone,” Covelli told reporters. Police responded to the residence and removed 16 knives, a dagger and sword from his home. At that time, there was no probable cause to arrest, and no complaints were signed by any of the victims, Covelli said.
The Highland Park Police Department notified the Illinois State Police. But they did not have information he had any firearms:
Illinois State Police “received a Clear and Present Danger report on the subject from the Highland Park Police Department,” the agency said in a press release. “The report was related to threats the subject made against his family. There were no arrests made in the September 2019 incident and no one, including family, was willing to move forward on a complaint nor did they subsequently provide information on threats or mental health that would have allowed law enforcement to take additional action. Additionally, no Firearms Restraining Order was filed, nor any order of protection.”
Crimo was able to pass background checks because no one filed complaints against him:
Between June 2020 and September 2021, the younger Crimo also passed four background checks when purchasing firearms, through the Firearms Transaction Inquiry Program (FTIP), which includes the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), Illinois State Police said. The only offense included in his criminal history was an ordinance violation in January 2016 for possession of tobacco, Illinois State Police said, adding that the agency has no mental health prohibitor reports submitted by healthcare facilities or personnel regarding Crimo.
The September 2019 Clear and Present Danger report “indicates when police went to the home and asked the individual if he felt like harming himself or others, he responded no,” Illinois State Police said.
“Additionally and importantly, the father claimed the knives were his, and they were being stored in the individual’s closet for safekeeping,” state police said. “Based upon that information, the Highland Park Police returned the knives to the father later that afternoon.”
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So, allegedly, the shooter was found via DNA from the crime scene he fled.
The only technology that could turn around a DNA test in less than 2 hours is “Rapid DNA”
Oh, and fun fact, according to the FBI, it’s not allowed to be used for crime scene analysis because of its technical limitations: https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory/biometric-analysis/codis/rapid-dna
There’s even the more basic question, “why was his DNA in the system in the first place”?
Something smells rotten – I’m betting these chuckleheads knew who this guy was before he started shooting.
I concur. My BS indicator is at warp core breach now.
Then the other part about being worried about getting caught he wore women’s clothes but AFTER he was off the roof, he dropped his weapon ( with the SN pointing straight to him) and didn’t invest 2 seconds to pick it up.
“Selective Stupidity” has always been a big red flag with me. Mistakes are one thing- obvious stupidity is another.
IIRC, even the serial number would require the ATF to reach out to the FFL, and the FFL would have to do a manual search of their paperwork. That doesn’t sound like something that happens in less than a day.
Maybe Illinois has a state firearm registry I didn’t hear about that maintains a list of SNs and owners?
They did. He was on their radar after the cops got a report of him being a danger. They went to the house and confiscated his knives, he didn’t have guns at the time.
Report said he was a danger, but apparently it didn’t get put into the system as he passed 4 background checks after getting his FOID.
Then the lying small duck* piece of crap prosecutor at a press conference said Illnoise has the best red flag laws and America should sign on. Even though they missed this sicko. Then to add even more stupid to his already dumb as a box of rocks with the niches filled with four day old bullschiff, he tells everyone we need an assault weapons ban.
Hey Illnoise, get enough people to go to each precinct and stop the cheat and get rid of these duckheads.
Not directed at you but some of the points you raise that others have that need some clarification because I think lay people don’t have an understanding of how these things actually work or what they can and cannot do.
>>> He was on their radar after the cops got a report of him being a danger.
There is no such thing as being on a “radar” or being a “danger”- that’s why it didn’t flag
>>>Report said he was a danger, but apparently it didn’t get put into the system as he passed 4 background checks after getting his FOID.
Its in the system but remember this “CLAIMS” are HEARSAY and not actionable by any legally punitive means. ( this excluded those which rise to the level of threat or whatever). A “claim” has NOT been ADJUDICATED ( which is the basis of unconstitutionality of the “red flag” law).
Remember, these “actions” WILL BE ( not may be) subject to STRICT SCRUTINY testing. ( same as flag burning and other protections) so as i said in other threads- NOTHING this kid did prior to shooting was “legally actionable”.
I challenge anyone to produce and single thing they think is and I’ll show them where it isn’t.
That’s why he passed the background check and how these “emotionally charged red flag criteria” eventually are UNCONSTITUTIONAL by any strict scrutiny test and should be outlawed.
I’am Shocked he wasn’t released on R.O.R.
The DNA report was poor reporting that conflated two separate actions by BATF, that they traced him (from the serial number on the gun) and also collected DNA (again from the gun). Journalism is seriously in the toilet these days.
Could very well be. That being said, tracing from a serial number on the gun generally means the BATF has to find the FFL, then the FFL needs to search their paper records. The timeline from serial number to positive ID is still suspect – unless someone has started creating a database of 4473 forms (which I know is already something FFLs that have gone out of business might have contributed to – https://freerangeamerican.us/atf-form-4473-database/).
Maybe Illinois has a state gun registry?
Just to let you know the process, here’s how it is “officially” supposed to work- speaking as a former and soon to be current FFL and old school LE having initiated a few.
(Side note- I personally believe the DS has a current illegal gun owner database and have for years and is prepared to weaponize it but have no evidence or proof other than they “say” they don’t. That’s beyond the scope of this answer)
They didn’t have E-trace back then but the process is the same basically.
An LE organization has a weapon and SN ( it may take some time to recover a mangled SN) so they apply for the trace.
The ATF contacts the manufacturer or chief distributor for the weapons path. ( usually down to the regional distributor or end use FFL)
Depending on the individual company and how it does its supply chain to its distributors and its open hours and time zone- this can be almost immediate to a day or three.
The end FFL searches his stuff and gets the first “original” purchaser
That’s the “perfect” world- then you have pawn brokers, closed dealers and everything else.
So, it can be faster but a day or 2 is average for most recent purchases and then the timeline can grow.
With E-Trace, it can be done in minutes ( if everything works right) for a modern recent purchase such as this one is alleged to be.
Still, something doesn’t smell right here.
If you thought the level of dumb and evil was bad in Robert Crimo III, I’d like you to meet Robert Crimo II.
Apparently daddy Crimo was running for mayor at the time so didn’t want the bad press.
I don’t know what that means.
The father lost the mayor race in April 2019.
He sponsored his mentally ill and dangerous son on a FOID application in December 2019.
Crimo III reportedly threatened to kill himself and the rest of his family in or before April 2019, the month of the election and a decidedly unhandy time politically for such an event to be made public.
Police responded to that threat but the matter was handed over to ‘mental health professionals’.
Right, but that has nothing to do with his dad assisting his mentally ill son, well after the election was over, to buy guns on his own. That is the height of irresponsibility. The father has blood on his hands.
Right. But it has everything to do with establishing a pattern of Daddy irresponsibly hiding his son’s violent mental health issues for whatever the reason.
We might also mention that when the cops confiscated the son’s knives in 2019 the father claimed they belonged to him, not the kid, in order to get them back from the cops for his kid.
Both of which illustrate the original point of Crimo III being dumb and evil as well as his son. So we seem to be in agreement.
Not a lawyer here-
Any chance wrongful death suits will be aimed at father for failing to use reasonable judgment in helping his son get the guns?
We know about the potential abuses of red flag laws, looks like this is a case where the call should have been made and wasn’t.
In general, I assume parents already have a ton of guilt and regret to deal with without legal issues, but this sort of asks the question.
You can bet they will try but unless they get a biased liberal court- they will lose.
I caution everyone to be VERY CAREFUL about what we call this person because the left can and will use these tactics against American citizens as well.
Here’s why
First- there is NO MEDICAL EXAMINATION that has officially established this kid was “mentally whatever”. ( even if there was, it had not been cross examined in a court by a trier of fact).
You cannot put a “layman” ( parent) in the position of making a MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS- that’s the first failure of the red flag laws and this line of thinking.
So far, his “acts” ( the weird pictures, lyrics, tattoos, poems and what not) are PROTECTED SPEECH. None of them rise to the LEGAL LEVEL of a threat or “fighting words”. The fact he went out and committed mass murder does NOT “defacto” change the fact his prior words and expressions are totally legal and innocuous.
People are talking about the knives and other threats- here’s a reality check based on the above paragraph.
There was no actionable crime there without a complaining witness filing a complaint ( their RIGHT not to file one too)- If anyone doesn’t like that then make sure you apply that same level of adherence to EVERY marital spat, bar argument and 75% of the population will be in jail too. ( these things cannot be selectively enforced)
Be careful what you ask for and what standards you choose to uphold because you will find them used against you as well eventually.
Not directed to you specifically because thousands are saying it Colonel but show me..
To a LEGAL standard
Where this person has been properly examined and adjudicated as “mentally ill”
What did he do that constituted him as “dangerous”?
Be specific
Other than the shooting act, there has been a great smear campaign ( and I personally agree but I have to let my personal thoughts be subject to my professional judgement)
I see NO PRIOR ACT this kid did or was alleged to do that legitimately shows him to be “mentally ill” ( defined as clinical) or dangerous. ( as an indicator he was going to commit mass murder)
I would like the specific act identified, the statute and evidentiary standard it met, the diagnosis proper please.
I’m doing this to make a point regarding peoples “perceptions” versus what laws actually say and are capable of doing.
Yeah nothing to see with this guy he is completely normal. Blame the inanimate firearms. /S
He certainly never displayed any indicators of behavior or philosophy in common with other youthful mass killers. His life was a closed book, how could anyone have any concerns, it’s not as if he had multiple LEO encounters or his friends, family or acquaintances ever noticed any abnormal behavior. It’s not as if he posted bizarre content and mad ramblings online. It’s not like he ever articulated a threat to himself or others. /S
This guy is totes normal. Not abnormal at all. /S
@Chief
Lets have the opposing view (and no, I’m not supporting or defending this guy but trying to stop a worse problem of guilt by perception rather than fact which is even more dangerous)
>>>He certainly never displayed any indicators of behavior or philosophy in common with other youthful mass killers.
Conjecture, he exercised his 1st amendment rights. Millions do the same thing and they aren’t mass murderers
>>>His life was a closed book, how could anyone have any concerns,
Is being an introvert a felony?
>>>it’s not as if he had multiple LEO encounters or his friends, family or acquaintances ever noticed any abnormal behavior.
What exactly is “abnormal” behavior? Having an LEO “encounter” isn’t a crime ( he was never arrested or charged with anything). A speeding ticket is an LEO “encounter” too. Apparently his “abnormal behavior” didn’t rise to the level of probable cause for an arrest or litigation so its called free speech regardless of what our personal thoughts may be.
>>>>It’s not as if he posted bizarre content and mad ramblings online.
If that’s an actionable crime 80+% of the world’s population is guilty too
>>>It’s not like he ever articulated a threat to himself or others.
What threat ( that meets the legal definition and standard) did he articulate? I have yet to read one.
Granted this kid isn’t “normal” by my personal standards but there is no legal standard of normalcy so its a subjective red herring.
Let us all be careful to not go too far down the rabbit hole of conjecture and opinion as a basis of legal action lest we find our own actions and value subject to the same by leftists using their “standards” as well.
Taurus,
We are already going down the very dangerous rabbit hole of red flag laws. That choice Jas been made by political leaders in many States. Congress has passed funding to nudge or bribe others to join in.
It is no longer a debate about ‘if’ red flag laws are a good idea (they are not) now the debate is about ‘how’ they will be implemented. Heck Illinois already has red flag laws.
Here are some things we know and my recommendation as to how we should proceed.
Reports state: The suicide attempt was a week prior to LEO involvement which suggests another suicidal ideation as the reason to contact LEO. The homicidal ideation resulted in the removal of a sword, dagger and over a dozen other knives.
Combine that with a review of his public social media. Conduct interviews of friends, acquaintances, peers, employers, co-workers.
Provide all that data to a psychologist. Let them make a recommendation to either proceed to an involuntary commitment hearing or not. Either he is or is not a danger to himself and others or he isn’t.
The end state shouldn’t be this halfway measure of removing firearms alone. Citizens have a right to remain free unless they adjudicated to be mentally defective or convicted of a crime. I agree with you and others that the red flag laws are a horrible idea and subject to abuse by zealous or vindictive people.
IMO we need to demand a comprehensive review culminating in an adversarial judicial process with the full protections of rules of evidence and procedure which is absolutely necessary to protect the integrity of the system and the rights of the accused.
Sure, now lets test them based on strict scrutiny of those implementations
>>>Reports state: The suicide attempt was a week prior to LEO involvement which suggests another suicidal ideation as the reason to contact LEO. The homicidal ideation resulted in the removal of a sword, dagger and over a dozen other knives.
There are no published details about this “claim” of a suicide attempt. Was it an “excited utterance”? Did he try and it took medical intervention to save him? ( that would have been actionable so most likely not). Did the parent over react or just act out of frustration?
The initial removal is and of itself SOP ( and they were as quickly returned)
From a factual actionable legal perspective- a zero
>>>Combine that with a review of his public social media. Conduct interviews of friends, acquaintances, peers, employers, co-workers.
Hearsay and protected speech- a zero
>>>Provide all that data to a psychologist. Let them make a recommendation to either proceed to an involuntary commitment hearing or not. Either he is or is not a danger to himself and others or he isn’t.
Under color of what law or statute that mandates an involuntary review of a citizen minus legally solvent probable cause? ( and who pays for all this?)
Another zero
>>>The end state shouldn’t be this halfway measure of removing firearms alone. Citizens have a right to remain free unless they adjudicated to be mentally defective or convicted of a crime. I agree with you and others that the red flag laws are a horrible idea and subject to abuse by zealous or vindictive people.
RFL’s are way beyond a horrible idea- they are illegal and unconstitutional which is why they fail when challenged. You just stated a citizen has a RIGHT to remain free unless ADJUDICATED ( which I concur) but I just pointed out where the criteria given does NOT meet any legal standard toward such adjudication and as a result must never be allowed to happen.
>>>IMO we need to demand a comprehensive review culminating in an adversarial judicial process with the full protections of rules of evidence and procedure which is absolutely necessary to protect the integrity of the system and the rights of the accused.
We have one that works very well now. What the left is trying to sell is “fortune telling” based on a bucket of bullshit (hypothetical what-ifs anchored in a “looks like” analysis accepted to be “true” by people with a socialist agenda out to destroy the US Constitution and our nation) to supplant established legal precedent requiring PROOF and SCRUTINY before a citizens RIGHTS are restricted.
No human, no law, no protocol whatsoever will EVER be able to predict tomorrow or what any person may or may not do but that’s what’s being sold.
Be careful because that’s how Lenin and Hitler did it too.
Taurus,
You and I agree that red flag laws as currently passed are lacking in appropriate constitutional safeguards. That they can and will be exploited to enact revenge by vindictive people or by zealous at nuts of the State to enforce their ideology.
You made great arguments which look at each single step of the comprehensive process I proposed. That’s the flaw in your analysis and those who support red flag laws. Both you and they seek to view a single act in isolation to buttress their claim.
You ignore that my proposal is a comprehensive system that doesn’t take a single event or action and elevate it alone as proof. I proposed using a combination of events which in concert result in enough weight to tip the scale in favor of review by a psychologist. Then a recommendation from the psychologist for a commitment proceeding. Then a full adversarial hearing with all the safeguards provided to a defendant in a criminal trial.
I fully agree that each event in isolation may not meet the standard for a referral in this proposed process. I never claimed otherwise. I am laying out a way to improve and refine the purported goals of red flag that is more consistent with our shared vision of liberty.
You seem to have ignored the opening sentences as you didn’t address them so they bear repeating. Red flag laws are the unfortunate reality in many States. Congress has, foolishly, provided funding to nudge or bribe other States to adopt them. The recent Congressional debate about whether or if our Society should enact these laws has been closed for the moment. We lost.
IMO, you are spitting into the wind by your failure to recognize that your arguments, which I agree with, have for the moment lost in the political arena of DC and many States. You continue to argue as if the debate as to whether these laws should be enacted or encouraged was ongoing. It isn’t, our arguments failed to persuade a majority in Congress to reject them.
Of course we should continue those arguments in our States where sanity has prevailed and we are still able to work towards prevention of these laws being enacted. No argument from me there but we do need to recognize that these foolish policies have become the law in many States and work to reform them into a more effective and less Orwellian process.
We need to pass even more gun laws that nobody will be bothered to use to report insanely obvious people like this before their inevitable crimes.
“Yeah nothing to see with this guy, he is completely normal. /Sarc”
I’m old enough to remember when people like this were in the minority. /No Sarc Intended.
They still are despite the media and marketing attempts to flood the zone with all sorts of diverse representation that is completely out of proportion to their actual numbers.
If that is true that would be a silver lining. I’m afraid, however, it would be a bit threadbare
This creep is really not going to fare well in prison. His appearance just screams out ‘weakness!’
I think he is going to be very popular. and popped.
This dude’s photos set off my threat radar as guy who would shank someone just out of the blue. No way I let someone who looks like this remain unobserved at my 6.
You have high odds if you always have ‘creepy Gollum looking MFr’ on your who’s the mass killer bingo card.
Yeah I can see that, but both can be true. He’s weak, which makes him afraid. And his fear makes him angry. And his anger might make him a hit-and-run shanker.
But the weakness, when confronted directly, will get him on his knees really fast, I would expect.
Why does the media make these deranged killers famous? Clearly, some of the perpetrators of these heinous crimes keep ‘score’ and even admire previous
mass killers and their body counts. They seem to feed off of and attempt to outdo each other.
It is not newsworthy and does not contribute positively to anyone in the public at large to know names and/or the likeness of any mass murders.
Well its just a part of a free society and the benefits of that outweigh what little the benefit the killer gets.
Our Free Society does not publicize rape victims names, voluntarily, and we’re still free.
A victim and a perpetrator are vastly different.
That said I agree with you that after the initial reporting that confirms the name of a mass killer it would be be better if people voluntarily referred to them not by their name but by location of the killing. Uvalde v Name.
Have you ever asked yourself, “What would Peter Pan look like if he had facial tattoos?” Now you know.
He looks more like Wendy.
The father of this reprobate is an irresponsible idiot, helping to procure firearms for a transparently wayward and mentally unstable son. He should have helped his son get a job and mental health treatment, instead.
His mother is a wacko. She went off on the SWAT team and was acting very strange. Too many intoxicants maybe.
https://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2022/07/denise-pesina-confronts-swat-personnel-and-police-exposes-breast-in-front-of-her-home-after-highland-park-parade-shooting/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
She’s even got Karen hair.
I would suggest that we not conduct ourselves in the “rush to judgement” so prevalent with the left that we often call for doing it with emotionally charged observations rather than actual vetted information.
I don’t know this woman but I have had to deal with a number of high intensity crisis’ and have seen similar conduct.
This is NOT to say she isn’t “odd” ( whatever that means) but lets put it in proper context before we exercise judgement.
This woman just found out her child (presumably she loved him) literally just altered every part of her “universe” forever in the worst possible way. I’m sure it was not delivered gently either. He just became a mass murderer and now the entire “world” is going to attack her, her family and all that goes along with it with the intent to cancel/destroy.
This level of emotional/ sensory overload combined with shock/horror is enough to drive anyone insane for a while and reduce them to babbling unthinking emotional wrecks with a total loss of rational thought.
I’m willing to look at what she was and did prior to the event and how she recovers before I pass such judgement on her- I recommend others do the same.
THEN, if she’s a wacko, druggie or whatever- let the chips fall where they may.
And once again I am forced to ask “what’s right with this picture?”
OTOH, there are at least a dozen people who look as odd and outcast as he does who walk into the mochahut in Portland while I am there in the morning. Normally I’d think that any facial tattoo is a big “stay away” beacon, but upon reflection, I am starting to wonder if perhaps it is a new strategy where the mentally ill use these signals to attract a mate, or whatever their gender bender thoughts call the “opposite” of what they are, and there I am assuming that it is an opposite that is desired. I’m so old that I remember going to school, doing well, working hard, and taking a shower as a way to find a mate. Happily my son seems to be following in those steps, so far.
I wonder how Illinois residents feel about the death penalty right now.
We got rid of it because of all the procedural errors that put at least a dozen innocent men on death row.
True but there are certain circumstances where there is certainty. The problem is that once there is a murder, there are no further consequences for murdering others. Every crime after the first is a free-bee.
You would have done more and better to just address those procedural errors
A lifetime of being a pass-around might be a decent option. A living hell on earth is the least that can be done. Since he injured children he will be so special.
It would be interesting to interview and record the living “mass shooters” now in prison. Presently, they fade away into the big house and that is that.
he definitely has the stare–even a freak like him has rights and am more concerned about preserving those than seeking vengeance for his acts
just mind-boggling that his family was concerned for their safety when he had access to numerous edged weapons and then dad decides to help him acquire multiple firearms–lord
Hang on Tex, lets stay even keel here and FYI I agree with your statement in truth and application but there’s that unofficial test of where his right to swing ends and its a very vague obscure line at best.
People here ( on the right) need to ever stay vigilant to not fall into the traps the left sets for us.
We have to fight the urge to make decisions based on lies/hearsay and media accounts.
We have no official details about this “complaint” with the knives and confiscation. Everything is gossip and innuendo. What we DO KNOW is no arrest was made, no witness filed charges and no trial was held.
At the end of the day that means nothing because there was no crime or judicial decision.
The kid’s “rights” as a then ADULT were intact. ( that’s the bottom line)
Father signing for the card- first there is the argument the entire FOID system is in and of itself illegal and unconstitutional but that’s a different argument beyond the scope of this.
The kid had no legal flags against him and a legally clean slate as an ADULT- why should his father “not’ sign?
Yeah he looks and acts weird and says socially unacceptable things but so do punkers, rappers and millions of others- which one of these denies his inalienable rights? ( 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th?)
I’m in no way supporting this kid or making an excuse or justification for any actions- I am pointing all this out because this is how the left wants us to subvert our Constitutional rights under the false flag of public safety so they can weaponize them against us for our “safety”.
Yes, living in a free society has risks and at times casualties but its better than 1984 or Idiocracy or Marxist rule.
Months later in September 2019, A FAMILY MEMBER reported that Crimo had a collection of knives and said he was “going to kill everyone,”
_____________________________________________________________
this statement, coming from someone with a personal knowledge of the guy, me thinks speaks volumes–were he my son, would damn sure say something to me
am not arguing for/against red flag laws here–believe in this case we’re looking at early-onset parent failure to understand/comprehend this kid’s behaviour
imagine your kid has a professed/demnonstrated passion for arson–let’s head over to ace hardware and get him a bunch of flammable liquids/accelerants and a big old box of matches–pretty damned clueless on the parent’s part
two things to consider–nothing a judge/jury/shrink/corrections facility can do to restore the victims to their loved ones–nothing–and, regardless how heinous and senseless this guy’s (alleged) actions were, protecting and upholding his rights(and ours) should be paramount to all of us–and to those that come after us
Don’t disagree with any of it but for the benefit for readers who have never done this at the “nuts and bolts” level…
>>>Months later in September 2019, A FAMILY MEMBER reported that Crimo had a collection of knives and said he was “going to kill everyone,”
First, “family members” have “reported” things like this for CENTURIES with a heavy emphasis on domestics, family courts, squabbles and what not. It still requires an investigation/testing and proof before a trier of fact. (since nobody swore a warrant or pursued action legally- they must not have thought much of the validity of the threat then)
Then comes the emphasis on making it “sound” worse- what is the numerical quantity of a collection? 2 or 200? When does a few guns become an “arsenal” then an “armory”?
Were these butter knives? fishing knives? bayonets? “assault” knives? Kitchen knives? Does it matter? Where they illegal?
Anyone know how many actual knives he really had?
Here’s another, “gonna kill everyone”- lets objectively cross this one.
Is this a DIRECT QUOTE or the reporter’s “understanding” and “interpretation? (many a case dies right there is its not a direct quote). “who” is everyone? (technically and legally a threat has to have a degree of specificity and intent to a reasonable standard- goes back to the same reasoning as trying to twist Trump’s words on the “insurrection”)
At the end of the day- unactionable hearsay
Now to this
>>>believe in this case we’re looking at early-onset parent failure to understand/comprehend this kid’s behavior
imagine your kid has a professed/demonstrated passion for arson–let’s head over to ace hardware and get him a bunch of flammable liquids/accelerants and a big old box of matches–pretty damned clueless on the parent’s part
This is the biggest and most cruel liberal lie of all.
First- a parent is a human with strong feelings toward their children. The WORST POSSIBLE OBJECTIVE OBSERVER ( with a vested interest even) to bring their child into the netherworld of the government.
This is nowhere near the same as a parent dealing with illness or injury and seeking help.
The entire field of psychiatry is a step away from pseudoscience and one must first be an MD to become one- yet there is an expectation that somehow a “parent” just knows these things “because”?
Then there’s the social and financial cost.
Where’s the dividing line between normal rebellious behavior and deep end ( gothic, punk, rap or whatever) and a true psycho who is about to kill? If nobody here can identify that line- its unreasonable to expect a generic parent with an emotional bias to either.
Just food for thought
court is not the real world–to even a casual observer, this kid is a bit off–contemplating suicide, enamored with “mass shootings,” writing about and verbally expressing thoughts of killing/murdering others, concerned family members, etc.
none of those things are lies but observed behaviour–actions bespeak character, bespeak intent
regardless of leo’s perspective, am wondering why the folks in this kid’s primary relationships weren’t able(or refused) to see calamity/violence brewing
You’re right but not. (I’m pointing this out for the masses- not directly at you)
Everybody is saying he’s off and whatever ( which personally I am in 100% agreement. I too think he even “looks” dangerous even without knowing him personally and I would go to yellow alert just in his presence)
Problem is my personal or even professional beliefs and observations are not codified law. They cannot justify action depriving others of their rights nor be a sole basis of legal action without a vigorous defense.
The problem is this: None of that is either illegal or judicially actionable ( which is what people want. Some “miracle” that predicts and avoids bad things- which does not and cannot ever exist)
Here’s the worse problem- These same people then want to then defacto punish others for not seeing” all this and stopping it.
Then the worst of all- these people want to make laws depriving people of rights which further opens them up to attack which those laws are PROVEN to not directly address or reduce the very things they are implemented to do.
I’ll ask you your own question.
What observations (specific actions) accurately indicate “calamity” and/or violence brewing?
What specific conduct indicates this and how would a lay person be able to “recognize” it for what it is?
I hear lots of people wanting “it” to happen but cant ever define exactly what “it” is.
In the next breath many of those people talk about hating red flag and other oppressive laws.
Cant have it both ways.
What observations (specific actions) accurately indicate “calamity” and/or violence brewing?
What specific conduct indicates this and how would a lay person be able to “recognize” it for what it is?
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in another life had a bit of training in this area (as was necessary) and, as a result, am somewhat conditioned by it still
a rather huge topic and yet individual-specific as well–as you mentioned, might be confused with typical “teen-age rebellion” in young people but manifests in adults in more refined and less perceptible ways–they’ve practiced
too many to list but if had to pick only one would say ease/comfort/facility with physical violence and its expression/employment in primary relationships(parents, siblings and especially younger siblings) peers, romantic interests, pets or other domestic animals, even an unlucky wild animal (“overkilling” comes to mind)
in adults, several other tells but more subtle and a bit more difficult to read(they’ve practiced)–many of us have encountered this type in life and if had to describe one(especially a clever, practiced one) despite(as opposed to because of the) tells present or sublimated, there is SOMETHING about the individual that alarms me
viscerally–difficult to pinpoint at times but have never ignored it
On this
>>>>too many to list but if had to pick only one would say ease/comfort/facility with physical violence and its expression/employment in primary relationships(parents, siblings and especially younger siblings) peers, romantic interests, pets or other domestic animals, even an unlucky wild animal (“overkilling” comes to mind)
Fair answer and in my mind as good as any possible. Problem is that’s more of a therapeutic estimation and would be a FAR CRY from any LEGAL bar to deprive a person of their rights under strict scrutiny.
The whole point to my series of posts is that the left attempts to a totally undefinable set of requirements onto a person where compliance is virtually impossible then want to pass meaningless laws based on pure fantasy.
You couldn’t define it, I couldn’t define it and nobody else on the planet can either- the left knows this and doesn’t care. They want an EMOTIONAL law that “feels right” and does what they “want” ( which has nothing to do with crime- its about disarming as a prelude to domination by force except THEY want to be the ones with the force)
W cannot allow them to ultimately win this unless we want our farmers shot too