During a fiery appearance on CNN’s State of the Union, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. clashed repeatedly with host Dana Bash over vaccines, the COVID-19 pandemic, and what he described as years of media malpractice. Refusing to play defense, Kennedy turned the tables, accusing both Bash and her network of spreading misinformation throughout the pandemic while silencing legitimate scientific debate.
Kennedy launched into a blistering critique of CNN’s coverage, arguing the network unquestioningly echoed government talking points while dismissing or ridiculing experts who challenged the prevailing narrative. He contended that Americans were repeatedly assured of claims that later unraveled — from the origins of the virus to the effectiveness of various mitigation measures — yet few in the legacy media have acknowledged those failures.
The interview quickly devolved into a series of heated exchanges, with the two frequently speaking over one another and neither willing to yield ground.
One of the sharpest moments came when Kennedy challenged CNN’s credibility on COVID-19. He maintained that the network has little standing to lecture anyone about public health after its coverage of the pandemic.
He emphasized that protecting citizen’s constitutional rights is “the primary obligation” of our government, and that it should take priority over public health.
Bash appeared horrified.
“We completely dismantled our constitutional rights,” he said. “We began censoring people in violation of the First Amendment.”
Bash cut him off, “Forgive me, but you’re talking about rights, and I’m asking about a potential public health crisis that is coming.”
Ignoring her, he continued. “And one of the mistakes we made last time was suppressing those rights. So people weren’t being heard. Doctors who were saying, ‘You’re doing it wrong,’ were being marginalized and vilified.”
Bash interrupted him, “Again, I really want to move on …”
Irritated, Kennedy replied, “Yeah, of course you want to move on because you were part of the problem.”
He accused CNN of uncritically amplifying official narratives while dismissing experts who questioned them. “There was absolute press malpractice. Your job — your job — is a fierce skepticism toward authority, and you weren’t doing that.”
“You were beating up on people who were dissenting,” he added.
Kennedy accused CNN of stoking public fear throughout the pandemic, telling Bash, “You were scaring people.”
Asked why he would say that, Kennedy replied, “Because that was the job of CNN.”
For her part, Bash repeatedly pressed Kennedy over his past statements on vaccines and his leadership of the Department of Health and Human Services. She said, “I also don’t want to use this interview to allow you to say things that aren’t entirely true. You’re talking about therapeutics — fine. It is also factually true that the COVID vaccine worked. The COVID vaccine prevented deaths. There is data upon data upon data.”
Kennedy grew increasingly exasperated and said, “You are saying nonsense. You are saying something that you cannot show me a single study that says that.”
Kennedy steered the conversation into another contentious exchange by asking Bash, “Do you think the COVID vaccine protected children? Can you show me one study that shows children were protected by the COVID vaccine? … That the vaccine did more good than harm to children?”
“I can tell you that when it comes to the vaccine, there have been studies that show that because of vaccine disinformation, disinformation, there could have been 100 to 200,000 lives in the U.S. saved. But because people didn’t get the vaccine — ” She was cut off again, and angrily exclaimed, “Let me finish!”
Bash turned to the recent rise in measles cases across the U.S. She asked Kennedy, who she called “one of the leading voices questioning vaccine efficacy,” whether he bore any responsibility for the current outbreak.
“Absolutely not,” he shot back. “The reason we’re having a measles outbreak is because of the COVID lockdowns, because people didn’t — children during that period did not get vaccinated.”
“You are the HHS secretary and you are talking about things that lead to vaccine hesitancy. … And it is causing problems for people — ”
Kennedy interrupted, “Let me ask you something. Do you see your job as ending vaccine hesitancy or do you see your job as telling the truth to the American people?”
“I see my job as telling the truth and the truth is that there is study after study after study — it’s one of the most studied things out there in science and — ”
“You’re like a parrot. You’re a parrot. I’ve actually read the science.”
Bash said, “I’m not debating this with you.”
To which he responded, “Of course you won’t. All you know how to do is repeat things that people told you and say, ‘Trust the experts!’ That’s what you did during Covid. Now we know that Anthony Fauci, who was the ‘expert,’ was lying about everything. … Now, you’re rolling out the ‘experts’ again to talk about something that you have no personal knowledge of.”
And on it went. By the end of the interview, neither side had given an inch. But Kennedy had accomplished something that rarely happens: he had managed to put Bash — and her network — on the defensive. And he made it clear he has no intention of letting the media escape scrutiny for the role it played during the pandemic.
While my instincts tell me that Kennedy had the better of the exchange, in the end, CNN got the last word. The headline for the network’s write-up of the interview read: “RFK Jr. targets Fauci and pushes medical misinformation in fiery CNN interview.”
The full segment can be viewed below:
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