I recently recorded a lengthy (20) minute segment with Aubrey Shines on Real America’s Voice network.
The topics centered around Israel and the rise of certain influencers – most prominently Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens – who are obsessed with demonizing Israel in different ways. I haven’t talk much on the website about those topics, but I’ve been pretty vocal on X about the malign influence of Tucker (I don’t really comment much on Candace). I guess it’s because he’s turned out not to be the person I thought he was. After leaving Fox News, he has done more to normalize Jew-hatred and bring it into the MAGA movement through the “woke right” than any other major ‘conservative’ personality.
I didn’t expect this. As readers know, I was on Tucker’s show many times when he was on Fox, and I appreciated the attention he brought to our work. When he was fired, I wrote Thank You, Tucker: “You are not alone. We are with you.”
Put aside the many times Tucker had me on his show to highlight the work we were doing at Legal Insurrection (including here, here, here, here, here, here. here, here, and here).He did something few other hosts do – he gave voice to the voiceless, to people suffering under the weight of local left-wing pressure, including several parents and teachers we brought forward on the Legal Insurrection website. While appearing on any of the major Fox News shows was good exposure, appearing on Tucker was a launching pad to national stardom….Tucker will come back, bigger and better, I’m convinced of it.
I was wrong. Tucker did come back bigger in many ways, but not better. Something has gone very wrong. Maybe his true self finally was freed of the constraints of corporate news, or maybe something else influenced him. But now he is — in my estimation — a malign force and not just as to Jews and Israel, but also to the Trump agenda which he seems determined to undermine. Yet despite his attempts to destroy MAGA, he seems to retain influence – and his relationship to JD Vance will be become a 2028 campaign issue.
You can view my posts about what has gone wrong here. This is a sample:
So when Aubrey invited me on to discuss these topics — which he chose not me — I jumped at the opportunity to get some things off my chest.
(auto-generated, may contain transcription errors, lightly edited for transcript clarity)
Intro (00:00)America shines when you are connected to Aubrey. S Shines. Here’s your host, Aubrey S. Shines.Shines (00:12)Well, hello and welcome to America Shines. I am your host Aubrey S. Shines.Antisemitism against our Jewish friends seems to be on the rise from anti-Israel demonstrations on college campuses, that saw the harassment of the Jewish American students, even to just plain ignorance and neatly hostile comments from figures such as people like Candace Owens, and even Tucker Carlson. But why is this vitriol aimed against the nation of Israel?Well, joining me is Cornell University law professor and Equal Protection Project founder William Jacobson. William, I want to kind of get to the heart of this here and I just want to say this to–not just to you–but to our audience as well. I’m only going to use Candace and Tucker [to] almost to personify what I believe is a broader picture as much as their platforms are large and have a large influence, this is not indicative because I hate either of them. I love everyone. But with that being said, their voices seem to resonate [in] my opinion, both historically, culturally–it’s pure ignorance.Why, in your opinion, professor, what’s wrong with these guys are they feeding into a frenzy that does not exist? Are they polluted, professor, by something that’s so nefarious that maybe we should all really be paying attention to? Professor William, what’s your response?WAJ (01:49)Well, I can’t know what’s in their heads. I can only know what they do and what they say and what they do, and what they do and what they say is really vile.Candace Owens promotes all sorts of bizarre conspiracy theories about Jews. Tucker Carlson has platformed and promoted and praised a fake historian who says Churchill was the bad person in World War II–not Hitler. [He] just had on a Cornell professor– somebody I know–suggesting that perhaps we should have sided with Hitler, not Stalin.It’s a very dangerous game they’re playing, and it’s something that their motivations– I don’t really care about, but what they do is they stoke Jew hatred when they do that. They know exactly what they’re doing.I followed Tucker a lot more carefully than Candace Owens [and] really, the only thing I know about her is clips that get circulated on the internet.But Tucker, I was on his show when he was at Fox many, many times. He interviewed me for an hour for his long podcast forum program. I spent an hour and a half with him at his studio in Florida. He was very praiseworthy of Israel at the time in our private conversations and on the show.Something changed with him. I don’t know what changed with him, but what he’s doing now is trying to set Christians against Jews. It’s very clear: he brings in not just these crank theories, Nazi revisionist historical theories, but he also brings on people who blame Jews for the purge of Christians in the Muslim world. It’s completely insane. Israel is the only place in the Middle East where the Christian population is increasing. In all the countries around it they’ve been depopulated of Christians just like they’ve been depopulated of Jews.So what’s motivating Tucker? I don’t know. All I know is he’s playing a very dangerous game. He’s doing it deliberately. He knows exactly what he’s doing.Maybe he’s playing to the bigger audience. There are close to 2 billion Muslims in the world; there are 20 million Jews, and bashing Jews, blaming Jews for everything, [and] coming to the defense of the Mullahs in Iran like he did, interviewing the leader of Qatar. All those sort of things play to a much bigger audience.So I don’t know what’s motivating him, but I don’t like what he’s doing. I’ve spoken out on X about it many times.And I think it’s really a problem for the Republican Party because he, more than any other person, has normalized this Jew hatred, has normalized the attempt to turn Christians against Jews, [and] has normalized the attempt to bring this stuff into the MAGA movement.I think it’s time for the Trump administration to disavow him and for JD Vance, who reportedly is friends with him, to disavow him as well, or at least to disavow what he’s doing.And I think that would be important because he’s trying to destroy the Trump administration. Why he’s doing it? I don’t know, but it’s pretty clear what he’s doing.Shines (05:01)You know, professor, I always get a little push back, which I always welcome. Again, I interview individuals that I don’t agree with probably anything they say. I like having that type of dialogue because in my opinion, it allows me to kind of know where they’re coming from, their sources, et cetera. So let me just put just a marvelous fact out there. If you guys are new watching what I do here, you do the research and yeah, you’re gonna find that my mother– yep, my birthing mother–she’s an Ashkenazi Jew. [I’m] very proud of that. But with that being said, again, I’m looking at Tuckers and I’m looking at the Candaces, and again, you hit on a few of these here, this revisionist, historical dynamic that seemed to look through the prism, squinting. I don’t know what exactly they’re squinting at. I think the evidence is overwhelming for so many of these things.I heard Candice say something, and I want you to at least speak to it. She said that she would never allow her children to fight in a war on behalf of Israel. But I thought about this professor, and I love your take on it: none of us want our kids to go to war. None of us wanna go to war. I get it, but sometimes war [is] a necessary thing. Why, in your opinion, and again, I’m not asking you to get into her head–I think it’s impossible. But I’m speaking of the facts–the things that she often says. Why wouldn’t she want her children to be very proud that they’re standing with the democracy? There’s no other democracies in the Middle East! Why is she taking this position? I don’t get it. I don’t get it, professor. We can’t get into her head–I understand that–but why not stand and fight with individuals that share the values that all of us here in this beautiful country, that we enjoy! [What’s] your opinion on that professor?WAJ (06:55)Well, you know, her whole position starts from a false premise, which is that Israel wants her children to fight for them. Israel has not asked an American soldier to fight for Israel. There are countries that do ask that.There’s South Korea. We have 28,000 troops that serve essentially as human shields for South Korea with a very real threat of a North Korean invasion. I don’t hear Candace Owens or Tucker Carlson, or anybody else saying, “I don’t want to die for South Korea,” “I don’t want my children to fight for South Korea.”Same as in Europe. We still have troops in Europe defending against a potential, it used to be Soviet, now, Russian threat. I don’t hear anybody saying, I don’t want my children to die for Western Europe. I don’t want to die for Western Europe.They only do it when they single out Israel–the one country that is not asking Americans to die for it.What Israel is asking for is for us to sell them weapons for us to us to assist them. But there are no American soldiers fighting in Israel. So why do they bring this up all the time? It’s because it’s an attempt to demonize Jews. It’s an attempt to separate Jews from the rest of the United States. It’s an attempt to blame Jews for something that Jews are not responsible for.There are many places in the world where American soldiers are fighting for other people. Israel is not one of them. So why are they singling out Israel?There’s a nefarious intent here, and it’s not an honest intent–it’s not an honest concern. They do it to drive traffic to themselves because there is a large percentage in this world that will buy into that, that feeds that, that will buy subscriptions to their podcasts and subscriptions to their services. That’s how they get funded. It’s not that Qatar is writing them a check. It’s that they get a lot of subscriptions, presumably, or at least potential from the Arab world, from the Muslim world. It’s always been an issue. Now there’s [similar] from the anti-Israel progressive movements as well. So why is she singling out Israel? Israel’s not asking her or her children to fight for them.Shines (09:07)No, you know, I’m really sickened over this professor. I have a few more questions for Professor William here in just a moment. I think you’re gonna really enjoy this, and I think this will make you a very informed individual as you stay tuned in. We’ll be right back.[break]Shines (09:34)So besides the social media personalities spreading so much hate against the nation of Israel, it is also legacy media sources who have been, in my opinion, very overt in their bias towards the nation of Israel. Despite this, our Jewish friends remain strong even in the face of such hatred. So, back with me to discuss this as Cornell’s University law professor and Equal Protection Project founder, William Jacobson.William, I want to ask you a different question here. I set that up, my friend, for a reason. I was watching an interview of Candace Owens. She was debating Rabbi Schmuley talking about Zionism and bringing in Theodore Herzl as its founder. But isn’t that a false premise? Because it assumes that the hopes for Israel started some kind of magical way back in the 19th century, forgetting about all of its historical data–whether you read for a Rabbi, the Tanakh and/or the Old Testament for Christian[s]; it’s same thing here with us. How is it then, that they’re taking a figure like Theodore Herzl put him into the 19th century? And again, Rabbi Schmuley can believe whatever he wants, you can like him [or] hate him. That’s not even my point. But to find a fault with the rabbi, you therefore, discount all of Jewish history. I think it’s a deductive way to express logic. William, am I missing something in my little small paradigm template that I’m sharing with you in the audience?WAJ (11:21)One of the biggest lies that has been spread–and it’s spread originally by the Soviets, and it’s spread by the progressive movement in the United States, is that Jews are somehow colonizers of that area. In fact, Jews are the indigenous people.If you want know who’s the indigenous people and who’s not, look at who supports archeology and who doesn’t. Jews almost obsessively want to dig into the ground to get the actual proof of who lived there, when they lived there, and what the civilizations were. Because every time they do that, they find that Jews have a multi-thousand year history in what is now the land of Israel.Who is against it? The people who identify as the Palestinians are against it. They will riot. They will do terrorist attacks. They will do anything to stop the archeology. So, you know, Jews are the indigenous people of that region.The people who now identify as Palestinian, some of them are the descendants of the Arab Muslim conquest in the seventh century. They are the colonizers.But most of them are migrants in the 18th and 19th and 20th centuries, who moved to that area. And you can see many contemporaneous accounts of people who traveled in that area in the 1800s, talking about how sparsely populated it was; it wasn’t empty, but it was sparsely populated and not developed. You can look at the photos from Jerusalem from that era, and you can see the Jewish presence. There has always been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem.So Jews are the indigenous people, and that is one of the primary goals of the delegitimization [of] the anti-Israel movement; it is to try to portray the Jewish presence there as somehow created by Europeans in the 1800s.And that’s simply not true; Jews have been there forever in terms of mankind–[and] have been there basically forever. And so that’s one of the main claims that is perpetrated, and that’s why you see them focusing on Herzl and focusing on other more modern things. But the Jewish presence there, I mean, Jews for, you know, 3000 years have said Next Year in Jerusalem? The Muslim world hasn’t said that. The Arabs haven’t said that–that’s a new phenomenon for them. But that is the land–the homeland of the Jewish people.The creation of Israel is the single greatest decolonization success in the history of mankind. The indigenous people return to their land. And unfortunately, because of the way the world is, those indigenous people have been portrayed as the colonizers and the colonizers have been portrayed as the indigenous people.Shines (14:15)You know, professor, I did a video, I don’t know, eight or nine years ago, whenever it was pretty viral [and] pretty hot. And one of the things that I pointed out–is not because I hate anyone–I’m just looking at it through the lens of historical fact. And I pointed out individuals like the late Yasser Arafat and others who are on record for saying, we concoct it, this concept of “Palestinian,” because we hate Israel. We wanna push them over into the sea. We want to annihilate them. And again, I don’t think that people really understand, professor that the idea [the] of Palestinian period, it’s a myth! It goes back to a time when Jews were being persecuted again by some of the Roman emporers who were kind of mocking them, saying, “we’re going to kind of name you after the Philistines who you allegedly beat.”And so when I hear this data from, again, I gotta go back to Candace, [and] I gotta go back to Tucker–even when Tucker was interviewing Senator Ted Cruz, it was almost like a “gotcha” moment, because, I don’t know, Cruz couldn’t identify the exact scripture of, the Tanakh where it says, A and B is for supporting of Israel. It was almost like, “aha!” – then therefore all of your message is inaccurate. Yet, professor, I never hear these guys or girls, again, Tucker, Candace—they never talk about the fact that there’s no such thing as Palestinian people. According to their own Tribalists, Yasser Arafat, Mahnoud Abbas. These guys said, “We’re Syrians. We’re Jordanians. And we are there for one purpose,” as didnEgypt. Just come out and say, professor, not even a week ago, we are not gonna bring in the Palestinians. Why? They say it is because their cause will not be able to go forward. Well, what is their cause? They tell you what their cause is: to destroy Israel.Professor William, how is it? Well, you know that I know this, [and] you know this, any history book can show you this. Why is it then again– I know I’m sounding like I’m being redundant here–but you can’t convince me, professor, that Tucker and Candace don’t have access to what Aubrey Shines or William have access to. Prove me wrong here, my friend.WAJ (16:33)Whether they know it or not, I don’t know, but I don’t think they’re interested in that. You don’t have to go very far back in history to understand what’s happened.The Palestinian National Covenant–the first one in 1964– go look it up, disavowed any claim to what is now referred to as the West Bank and Gaza. Why did it disavow any claim to that for the Palestinian people? Because those areas were occupied by Muslim countries. Jordan occupied what’s called the West Bank, and Egypt occupied Gaza. As long as those were occupied by Muslim nations, the Palestinians disavowed any territorial claim. Yet, once in 1967, just a few years later, Israel captured them in a defensive war – the West Bank was captured when Jordan attacked Israel – and all of a sudden those are the homelands of the Palestinian people.It’s very well documented that the whole concept of the Palestinian people and the Palestinian National Movement was created by the Soviets. That this was an attempt– a successful attempt by the Soviets– to counter American influence in the region.And so, you know, there are people who identify as Palestinians. I mean, in 2025, we have to address that reality. But it’s also true that historically it’s a fabrication. They always considered themselves part of the greater Arab world, and never identified the way they do now until those territories came under the control of Jews. They didn’t care about those territories when they were occupied by Jordan and by Egypt. So you don’t have to go very far back in time, but you do need to study a little bit of history. And the Palestinian National Covenant was then changed after 1967 to make it seem like the West Bank and Gaza were the homeland of the Palestinian people, when just a few years before they didn’t make that claim.So there’s a lot of fabrication. It’s really accelerated with the growth of the internet, because you can have people like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens–each of whom reach many millions of people–and they can put somebody on there and claim that he’s, you know, the most honest living historian, I think was the term Tucker used, who says Churchill was the real culprit in World War II.And that’s the problem we face, which is that what the war against Israel and the war against Jews in many ways is a war against truth. It’s a war against reality. It’s the ability of people who far outnumbered Jews to weaponize the internet and weaponize social media. And that’s why they do so well on Twitter (now X) and on TikTok and platforms like that, because it’s a numbers game.There are only 20 million Jews in the whole world. And you cannot compete on a platform where numbers matter when you have that disparity.And that’s why we greatly appreciatem Jews around the world greatly appreciate, the Christians who stand up for us.There’s that saying, “first the Saturday people, then the Sunday people,” and all you need to do is listen to what they say at these protests. They want to get rid of Israel, and then they want to come after the United States because it’s a Christian-capitalist nation. And that is the problem here.The internet has made it that the truth no longer matters–numbers matter. And unfortunately, the people advocating the truth don’t have the numbers.Shines (20:00)No, they don’t. Professor William Jacobson, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your expertise, and more importantly, thank you for your soberness on a topic that really isn’t that difficult. If a person is interested in just the truth.
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