Free Speech Champion Elon Musk Battles Brazil’s Supreme Justice over Censorship
Musk plans to release a report types of information Alexandre de Moraes requested on Brazilians’ communications.
Legal Insurrection has previously reported on Twitter Files, in which the firm now known as “X” under the ownership of billionaire and free speech champion Elon Musk allows investigative journalists to read and review records from that social media platform. For example, we have focused on the analysis on Big Pharma’s role in repressing covid information and the Propaganda Media’s role in the disinformation campaign related to Hunter Biden’s laptop.
Last week, Brazil began a sweeping crackdown on free speech led by a Supreme Court justice named Alexandre de Moraes. Journalist Michael Shellenberger began new Twitter Files showing how the Brazilian government, now being ruled by far-left president, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, pressured Musk’s social media platform to censor its own citizens in direct violation of the Brazilian constitution.
The Supreme Court of Brazil is directly involved in the matter, led by Alexandre de Moraes (President of the Superior Electoral Court a justice of the Brazilian Supreme Federal Court).
Twitter Files, released here for the first time, reveal that de Moraes and the Superior Electoral Court he controls engaged in a clear attempt to undermine democracy in Brazil. They:
— illegally demanded that Twitter reveal personal details about Twitter users who used hashtags he did not like;
— demanded access to Twitter’s internal data, in violation of Twitter policy;
— sought to censor, unilaterally, Twitter posts by sitting members of Brazil’s Congress;
— sought to weaponize Twitter’s content moderation policies against supporters of then-president @jairbolsonaro
The Files show: the origins of the Brazilian judiciary’s demand for sweeping censorship powers; the court’s use of censorship for anti-democratic election interference; and the birth of the Censorship Industrial Complex in Brazil.
TWITTER FILES – BRAZIL
Brazil is engaged in a sweeping crackdown on free speech led by a Supreme Court justice named Alexandre de Moraes.
De Moraes has thrown people in jail without trial for things they posted on social media. He has demanded the removal of users from social…
— Michael Shellenberger (@shellenberger) April 3, 2024
There has war between Musk and Moraes since then. To begin with, Musk lifted the restrictions in Brazil.
We are lifting all restrictions. This judge has applied massive fines, threatened to arrest our employees and cut off access to 𝕏 in Brazil.
As a result, we will probably lose all revenue in Brazil and have to shut down our office there.
But principles matter more than…
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 6, 2024
‘
Then Moraes targeted Musk in an ongoing investigation over claims of “disinformation” after Musk provided the Brazilian people a workaround to the censorship.
In his decision, Justice Alexandre de Moraes noted that Musk on Saturday began waging a public “disinformation campaign” regarding the top court’s actions, and that Musk continued the following day — most notably with comments that his social media company X would cease to comply with the court’s orders to block certain accounts.
Musk, the CEO of Tesla and SpaceX who took over Twitter in late 2022, accused de Moraes of suppressing free speech and violating Brazil’s constitution, and noted on X that users could seek to bypass any shutdown of the social media platform by using VPNs, or virtual private networks.
Then Musk decided he would shed some light on the types of information Moreas requested on Brazilians’ communications.
Coming shortly, 𝕏 will publish everything demanded by @Alexandre and how those requests violate Brazilian law.
This judge has brazenly and repeatedly betrayed the constitution and people of Brazil. He should resign or be impeached.
Shame @Alexandre, shame.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 7, 2024
It seems publication of the information on Moraes will have to wait until Musk’s employees are safe.
They have been told they will be arrested
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 9, 2024
Now Brazil is threatening to cutoff service to Musk’s satellite internet communication service, Starlink.
Amid reports that the Brazilian government will also suspend all Starlink contracts in their ongoing battle with Musk, the X owner said that Starlink will provide free Internet for schools in Brazil “if the government won’t honour their contract.”
“When did de Moraes become the dictator of Brazil?” said Musk.
“He (de Moraes) demanded that X suspend accounts of people who raised corruption concerns while insisting that X pretend the suspension was for violating our terms of service,” Musk alleged.
Many Brazilians appreciate Musk’s efforts.
As a member of the Brazilian Congress who has been exposing and combatting the abuses of our Supreme Court for years, I want to express my deepest gratitude to @elonmusk.
Elon, you are currently aiding Brazil more than many members of the Brazilian House and Senate. You are… pic.twitter.com/dwp29ZXaCS
— Marcel van Hattem (@marcelvanhattem) April 8, 2024
To be honest, I have deep concerns about the possible role of Democrats and American bureaucrats who support them in the efforts against Musk.
Democrats are using Brazil and the EU as proxies to destroy Elon Musk and X.
Democrats are outsourcing the targeting of Americans they disagree with politically to other corrupt nations
What does that say about this party?
They hate Americans and will do anything for power.
— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) April 8, 2024
I will also express concern that I have found very little information about the threats and attacks against Musk in our nation’s news outlets. It seems the only real reporters left in this country are on X.
I will simply note that America’s legacy media seems happier to report on Brazil’s thuggish Supreme Court Justice Moraes’ threats to @elonmusk and his staff than Musk’s defense of Brazilians, his staff, and free speech. #Brazil #TwitterFilesBrasil #FreeSpeech pic.twitter.com/NU6Yx9EkUV
— Leslie Eastman ☥ (@Mutnodjmet) April 9, 2024
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Comments
Musk is not a free speech champion, the record clearly shows this.
How much does the Democratic party pay you to spout this nonsense?
Democratic Party? Maybe…but there are so many globalist entities out there with deep pockets, we can no longer make assumptions about the trolls and gadflies we see comment.
Gee, I assume BartE is a POS based on his?It’s comments.
One group of Communists or another, they’re all the same
Good grief no wonder your so clueless. Your conspiratorial thinking is quite something.
Me: your wrong and the facts prove it
You: I can’t possibly defend my position like a normal human being, I must immediately assume the dishonesty or poor intentions of the other person. All while denying the possibility that actually I might be wrong.
It’s really quite fascinating to see conspiratorial thinking in action.
How about offering evidence to support your contention that Musk is, on balance and within the context of our contemporary society, not in favor of free speech?
Bart, if we want your opinion we’ll ask the people holding your leash.
@commochief
I provide evidence in a different comment.
What facts have you offered? I haven’t seen any.
A lot better champion than you. I remember way back when true leftists believed in Freedom of Speech – ah, good days. Equality under Law fell by the wayside too.
Leftists and Dhimmi-crats used to believe in Freedom of Speech, and, would staunchly defend it. The ACLU was a relatively laudable organization, in those days. No longer. Now, we’re at the point where an appallingly dim-witted, “diversity” hire SCOTUS Justice oafishly opines during oral argument that she is concerned about the First Amendment’s ability to “hamstring” the federal government’s censorship efforts. That’s the hellish and totalitarain place that the vile Dhimmi-crats have taken the country to.
Were Democrats ever champions of free speech? Given the Democrat parties roots in slavery I very much doubt they ever truly believed in free speech.
“Were Democrats ever champions of free speech?”
No.
Only until they got real power.
Except that Musks version of free speech was to ban journalists, shadow ban leftists, sue organisations when the pointed out twitter was becoming a anti semitic racist infested shit hole, made deals with foreign governments over peoples personal data.
He simply isn’t what he claims to be.
As for your comment on the left, it’s not a monolith. Leftists argue all the time about the extents and pros and cons
Within strict Party guidelines….only shades of difference .
You first blame Musk for operating within the limits of the particular Nation aka ‘cutting deal’ then you refuse to give credit when, as here in this article, he refuses?
Offensive speech, such as antisemitic speech, while repugnant to most is pre it the kind of controversial, unpopular speech the 1st amendment was designed to protect. No need to protect popular speech or uncontroversial speech.
Which journalists did he ‘ban’ and were those journalists simply restricted based on their attempts to commercialize their Twitter /X account to feed their accounts elsewhere without compensating Twitter/X? There’s a good bit of context you seem to be leaving out re your claims of bans/shadow bans particularly when we consider how Twitter operated pre Musk.
1. It’s not clear that it even true journalists are affected by this case. Feel free to point to some actual specifics that say otherwise
2. Why would I give credit to man protecting Bolsanaro lackies
3. Journalists were banned from twitter, there wasn’t an ending of commercial relationships. This was well reported at the time, your statements about ‘context’ is just factually wrong. Your just making up stuff now. The context was journalists covering Musk being a bit of a twat about the guy tracking his plane, the journalists were suspended for covering the story because frankly Musk acted in the most embarrassing manner possible.
A journalist is someone with a pen, pad and camera. IOW everyone can be a journalist in the USA. If there were professional standards for entry and CE requirements and a code of professional ethics it might be different. However if there were professional ethical standards then using a flight track program to publicly post arrival/departures of an individual would not be allowed b/c it at minimum borders on harassment and could assist some disgruntled rando to carry out some whacko attack.
It’s a private company owned by Musk. Piss him off at the peril of your ability to utilize his platform or retain your employment with X. Seems simple and non controversial to those of is who were told ‘if you don’t like it, build or buy your own platform’. Chickens /roosting.
@commochief
1. Your definition of journalist isn’t relevant to the points being made
2. Plane tracking data is public info irrespective of whether its a private plane or not. It CANNOT be harassment, that’s legally the case.
3. Your points are once again unresponsive. The claim is that Musk is a free speech champion but his actions are contrary to that notion. Your non argument is that he is entitled to be a twat which is generally true but that doesn’t negate the point that its contrary to the claim he is a free speech champion. Nothing your stating actually addresses the point being made.
Except that Musks version of free speech was free speech.
FTFY
Non responsive to the facts. Do better
Leftists believed in freedom of speech before they basically owned all of the culturally shaping institutions. Then, like true authoritarians, once they owned those institutions they sought to close off freedom of speech.
Bruh,……
Does that make him wrong this time?
Can anyone cite anything BartE is right about.?
LI commentors opinions aren’t an indication of whether I’m wrong. When you can actually make a coherent point in response then you can make that claim. This happens on here quite rarely
How to say “I iz an idjit” without actually saying “I is an idjit.”
Begone, dufus.
My claim was specifically about the claim that Musk is a free speech champion. It does not extent to being a comment on the claims with respect to the Brazilian court. The consequence of this is not that he is necessarily wrong but that we should treat Musk with a handful of salt. He has mostly proven to be FOS
Why were you commenting on Mr. Musk as a “free speech champion” when the topic is about the conflict in Brazil? Oh, but let’s give you another chance: with respect to the censorship issue in Brazil, which side are you on — Musk or de Moraes?
The article literally starts with the statement “free speech champion Elon Musk”.
Clearly I’m on Moraes side because only a moron would be supportive of the government using twitter as means of distributing propaganda at scale which is what the Brazilian court ruled against.
Bart, the court ordered X to ban accounts of political opposition and then to pretend they did it for other reasons. The court ordered X to lie about why the accounts would be suspended.
@geronl
No the court ordered accounts removed that were associated with a campaign of misinformation which was in support of an increasingly authoritarian government. It was part of an attempt along with Jan 8th to make bolsanaro a dictator
Oh, really? Which record, and how does it show this? And what makes you trust that record? Who manipulated it?
It’s fact that he banned journalists, I was there when he did it. It’s also fact that he has sued various organisations for pointing out that his platform has become infested with hate speech since his arrival. It’s also fact that Musk has complied with requests from gov at a much higher rate than prior
https://restofworld.org/2023/elon-musk-twitter-government-orders/
His treatment of his own employees who have used twitter to make comments is dire too
https://www.freepress.net/blog/elon-musk-absolutely-enemy-free-speech
Musks version of free speech is being produced speech that makes him look good. That’s it. He has no principles and ita naive to think he does.
1. Repugnant or offensive speech or just speech you disagree with is what Musk restored to Twitter for the nomal.users and public at large.
2. Employees gotta toe the line to their boss or suffer consequences no matter the boss. Make.the boss look bad or run your yap and in a free market that Employer is free to fire your ass.
3. The high performing, motivated/driven, results oriented employees at Musk’s companies seem to do quite well for themselves. Those who are less capable or whiny, spoiled shots who expect the world to bend to their desires and adjust to them ….seem not to thrive in Musk’s companies.
1. This is unresponsive to my point which is that Musk has sued others for using there free speech to criticise twitter for become a bit of a shit hole
2. Again unresponsive to the point. Free speech champ fires employees for legitimate criticism is contradictory
3. Musk IS the spoiled brat, twitter employees left in droves becuase they didn’t need to take his shit, and he consistently embarrassed himself with his stupidity. There are a number of hilarious examples of this. Musk has a reputation for being full of shit and got called out on it then he threw tantrums and acted like a bully.
In summary you haven’t addressed my points in substance at all.
From the lefty bubble it may seem that way, after all those with privilege have a hard time recognizing it. In the case of many ideologues who found their way into employment at social media companies the abrupt shift in philosophy as well as the sacking of 75% ish of Twitter staff probably chapped more than few asses of disgruntled employees.
Those of us outside looking in at the astounding differences between pre/post Musk purchase of Twitter which has returned most of the way towards the original promise of free/open communication even for unpopular speech/opinions see it differently.
Musk can sue whomever he wishes in our overly litigious society, however to win a suit he has prove his claims for an actionable tort. The lefty habit of making false and/or unsupported claims is colloquially defamation. When made against an employer other claims may arise, particularly if the claim is made during a negotiation where tortuous interference might be raised.
Someone like Musk who is a results oriented, demanding, accept no excuses boss is a big change from prior Twitter management. This seems especially evident in the sheer number of Twitter employees terminated with a short time after acquisition by Musk.
Any former Twitter employee who was truly valuable to the organization would have been able to find a comparable position elsewhere or if very competent and possessed of a competitive spirit they could found their own firm. The days of endless rounds of Venture Capital and cash infusion for tech companies based on ‘potential revenue’ instead of actual booked profits are IMO done for while. I am sure that along with Musk’s firings have left a bitter taste for some who saw their hopes dashed in its wake.
@commochief
You really do seem unable to address the actual points made do you.
A free speech champion would not sue for someone else using free speech. Especially in context of those people making honest criticism. You seem totally obvious to what an utter moron musk was during this whole episode. For example.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/08/1161857747/elon-musk-apologizes-after-mocking-laid-off-twitter-employee-with-disability
Musk was completely clueless about how twitter operated and the loss of so many employees in part trend twitter into a shit show.
A free speech champion would not sue a company for stating facts about his company
Once again unresponsive to the points being made
I’m all in for free.speech and if I defamed or slandered with false accusations I would sue the heck out of the person or organization making the false claims. You are certainly entitled to hold a different opinion about free speech but don’t you have your hands full in the UK particularly in Scotland?
Barte, You’re about as bright as a 5w light bulb 😂😂
Mailman, a person with such inadequacy issues that he has to throw meaningless insults out against others who can think critically. In the absence of any actual argument Mailman and your past performance I’d suggest you get back in your little man box. A tool doesn’t get to comment on any one else’s intellect.
You really don’t read the shit you write before you hit Submit, do you, dingus.
You’re the worst kind of troll… all hat, no cattle. Not one single redeeming feature.
Even your insults are kindergarten level.
I hear the UK is missing one of their idiots.
You should return home.
Projection isn’t much of an insult
You offer up yet another whiff of elevator flatulence, without offering a scintilla of evidence other than “the record clearly shows this.”
It is simply not possible to take you seriously. Why are you here?
Scary freaking times
Mike Benz
@MikeBenzCyber
One year before Brazil’s 2022 election, International Institute for Democracy & Electoral Assistance — funded by CIA cut-out NED — held a censorship planning summit where the NED-backed rep said goal was to end “international exchange of ideas” between Trump & Bolsonaro groups […]
– Funded by the US State Dept, USAID & the National Endowment for Democracy:
https://twitter.com/MikeBenzCyber/status/1658238390968676352
– “The keystone of the censorship industry’s branding operation is its claim to be is non-partisan. It doesn’t censor particular viewpoints – it censors “disinformation.” It doesn’t persecute its political opponents – it monitors “extremists.” It doesn’t interfere in elections on behalf of particular parties or candidates – it simply defends “election integrity. Every major censorship organization makes some claim to this effect.”
https://foundationforfreedomonline.com/
Mike Benz July 24, 2022.
US Tax Dollars Funding Text Message Censorship In Brazil.
SUMMARY
– Brazil’s election court announced it may nullify election winners who spread online ‘misinformation.’
– Hundreds of censorship professionals have been hired to read text message chats in Telegram and WhatsApp for ‘misinformation’ to report for apps to ban.
– Financing for censorship of Brazilian citizens’ text messages is coming from USAID, the State Department, and the National Endowment for Democracy.
https://shorturl.at/emQ38 Links to foundation for freedom online.
Very sad and disheartening to see subversive, vile and totalitarian Leftists take power in Poland and Brazil. Their lawless, corrosive and corrupt governance is already manifesting itself, in both countries.
And very soon the UK!
Too funny, Bolsonaro literally tried a couple and you morons try and claim its the left that’s totalitarian.
*coup
Why are all the leftists sporting crazy eyes, and weird facial features?
BartE more than like has AOC eyes, and a dimwit’s look like judge EggheadMoron.
A Peter Strzok demeanor, and lord knows what else.
That is funny, and so true.
“A Peter Strzok demeanor, and lord knows what else.”
I’m guessing a smaller-than-normal appendage.
That’s the mirror you’re looking at. Which would make more sense given this is a comment board with no pictures, Jesus your retarded
Your
You’re
Your use of English leaves a bit to be desired, thus you are (You’re) retarded.
So, in your words, you are saying Jesus is retarded.
You seem to think I care about this, I spend a few minutes here that’s all. You clowns aren’t worth the time spell checking.
Imagine if even a handful of other tech magnates (e.g., Bezos; Zuckerberg; Brin; Page; etc.) joined Musk in this free speech battle. But, they’re all too feckless to stick their necks out. They’re utterly worthless.
Oh it’s even worse! The Brazilian court is asking twitter to remove accounts that were used by the previous government to pump out propaganda. So Musk is against the removal of accounts that were used to support a campaign of lies and distortion to keep bolsanaro in power.
It’s not any Governments role to determine what the people may or may not read. If they don’t like things the previous administration supposedly said then they should man up and point out what was so wrong with what was said and leave it up to the people to decide for themselves.
Similarly it’s not the Governments role to determine what the public may read online based solely on who the Government says people may read. That kind of shit is what authoritarians get up to, you know kinda like what the National Socialists got up to in 1930’s Germany and what Democrats are attempting to do in America.
Dumb person says dumb thing. Firstly it’s not the government making the determination it’s the court, second the court case was about the government using twitter for distributing propaganda. So the court literally stopped an authoritarian from doing a goebbels you utter moron
So the Brazilian Supreme Court is not a fellow traveler with the REST of the government?
The judiciary is separate and distinct from the government.
Tip for you — slinging infantile insults at people is not an effective means of conveying the alleged strength and merits of your argument. All it demonstrates is your own glaring immaturity, incivility and grade-school level behavior and vocabulary.
Tip for you, if you learn to actually read you’ll see that when I’m subject to insults I bite back, nor do the majority actually address the points. Maybe read and understand the points being made before responding because if you don’t actually read what’s being said it makes you seem rather foolish.
Since when are courts not part of a government??? Your idiocy is flagrant today. We, for example, have 3 separate but supposedly equal branches of government – the courts being one.
No the judiciary is a co equal branch of the state. In this context the government is the ruling party as elected.
“Dumb person says dumb thing.”–
“Firstly it’s not the government making the determination it’s the court,”
Yes, Bart, you are a dumb person–as you so fervently demonstrate.
You are screeching the Musk is no fan of free speech because he refuses to aid Brazilian leftists in censoring people.
A lot of hot air and bluster from someone who has yet to make a coherent argument
You’re also somewhat misleading (you lied) in what you say Barte as Morales is demanding Twitter censor journalists, private individuals and, even worse, current members of the Brazilian Parliament.
This isn’t about censoring the previous administrations Twitter accounts but the fact you tried to lie that this is what Morales was doing raises some concerns about how easily you’ve allowed yourself to be swayed by leftist lies and how easily you posted those lies as if they bore any resemblance to reality (they don’t).
Basically there’s little point engaging with you since you’re a carrier of the leftist disease 😂
You’ll have to back up your claims. I see only references to a now imprisoned politician, I see no references to journalists. In fact the news reports indicate musk isn’t even allowed to state what accounts are being blocked
Bart, no one has to do anything the demand, are you admitting that you are too lazy of dumb to do your own research?
Apparently reading is hard for you, I’ve done my research and as per my prior comment couldn’t find references to journalists. Sure mailman doesn’t have to reply with a source but if he doesn’t I’m entitled based on my own knowledge of both the facts and mailman to conclude he is FOS
First of all, this purported court is not “asking”, it’s demanding. Which it has no right to do.
Second, you just admitted that what it’s ordering Twitter to do is to remove accounts for no other reason that they express a view that differs from those of the current government, with which this disgraceful judge is colluding. Surprise, surprise, the previous government disagreed with the current one. And surprise, surprise, the current government calls its opponents’ views “propaganda”, “lies”, and “distortions”. Who’d’a thunk it!
This is precisely what the freedom of speech exists for, and Musk is championing it while this tyrant is destroying it.
The freedom of speech is not something that the US constitution grants to people under its jurisdiction. It’s a fundamental human right that automatically belongs to every human being simply for being human, and that no government has the right to infringe. The US constitution merely ensures that the US government respects that right and doesn’t infringe it, since it has the power but not the right to do so. The Brazilian government is equally obligated to respect and preserve this right, but it violates that obligation, with this judge’s collusion.
By Geoffrey, Mulhouse, when you’re right, you’re right!
This is silly, the prior government got caught trying to abuse twitter with obvious crap to prop up a authoritarian. This wasnt
some campaign adverts this was a wilful attempt to distort reality and the court found in fact that this was the case.
And the US has a particular view on free speech, that isn’t necessarily the same as everyone else’s. And let’s be honest it’s meant that any old crap can be posted and the mugs that are MAGA lap it up.
It’s so much fun reading your comments. I reminds me of my days in college studying the Soviet Union and Marxist-Leninism. I always like listening to Radio Pacifica while in LA. The Lawyers’ Guild and the latest news from the socialist struggles. It would be great entertainment if it weren’t so dangerously wrong.
And still no substance. You make a lot of noise but never seem to have a point. Tut tut
“There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech.”
― Idi Amin
Ironic, the point being made is that Musks actions chill free speech on his platform upon which he claims to be a free speech absolutist. In other words directly contradictory to his claims of being a free speech champ
Not the “Brazilian court,” dingus. De Moraes, who apparently (with the connivance of his Lefty handlers) is the sole arbiter of what constitutes propaganda, is the one pushing this.
The court wanted X to eliminate accounts of sitting elected members of the government and then to lie about why the accounts were banned.
Leslie Eastman: I will also express concern that I have found very little information about the threats and attacks against Musk in our nation’s news outlets.
News about Brazil, Elon Musk
Many of the accounts blocked by Brazil are people who were involved in organizing the January 8 attack on Brazil’s National Congress and Court. Blocked accounts include Daniel Silveira who was imprisoned for leading a movement to overthrow the Supreme Court, and Bruno “Monark” Aiub who advocates for the Nazis to enter electoral politics.
It’s even worse than I thought, thanks for the link Zachriel
A budding Bromance!
Soon, they will be taking warm showers together,
Golden ones undoubtedly
MAGA every insult is a confession.
Zachriel is probably Bart’s older and smarter brother.
They’re both still morons, but at least Zachriel might have gotten laid one time.
According to the Associated Press, which cited the text of the judgment, “Musk will be investigated for alleged intentional criminal instrumentalisation of X as part of an investigation into a network of people known as digital militias who allegedly spread defamatory fake news and threats against Supreme Court justices”.
Oh no….digital militias!!! Criminal instrumentalisation!!!! That last word is worthy of Pravda….the one from Stalin’s era.
alaska bob: “. . . threats against Supreme Court justices. . . ”
Threats against the Supreme Court are a serious issue, especially in light of the attacks of January 8.
So serious that NOTHING has been done about those threats against SCOTUS?
alaskabob: So serious that NOTHING has been done about those threats against SCOTUS?
The Supreme Court has its own police force. A man was accused of trying to assassinate Justice Kavanaugh in 2022. He’s been in federal custody since his arrest and could face up to 20 years in prison. In the light of the increase in threats, Attorney General Merrick Garland ordered around-the-clock Marshal services security for Justices. Just this month, a Florida man was sentenced to prison for phone threats to kill a Justice. The Supreme Court has asked Congress for additional security funding.
This isn’t true, there have been arrests with respect to threats. Additionally Jan 8th was a mob assault on gov buildings thus considerably more evidence to do something
Why does anyone pay attention to AP, they have not been credible for a long time.