Trump: I’ll End The War By Threatening Putin We’ll Give Ukraine Even More Weapons “Than They Ever Got”
“Had DeSantis said what Trump said this morning, putting on the table sending Ukraine over $100B more in weapons, every MAGA influencer on this site would be posting about it and calling him a neocon.”
President Donald Trump told Fox News’s Maria Bartiromo how he would end the war between Russia and Ukraine.
If Russia wouldn’t accept a deal with Ukraine, then he’ll send all the weapons to Ukraine:
TRUMP: “No, no, I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is I know Zelenskyy very well, I know Putin very well, even better, and I had a good relationship, very good, with both of them. I would tell Zelenskyy, no more, you’ve got to make a deal. I would tell Putin if you don’t make a deal, we’re going to give them a lot. We’re going to give them more than they ever got if we have to. I will have the deal done in one day, one day.”
Trump praises Zelensky as “very honorable”. Says he’ll give Ukraine even more weapons. Now we know why he’s campaigning with Lindsey Graham. pic.twitter.com/J3UpVoBEle
— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) July 16, 2023
Can you imagine if any other Republican presidential candidate said this? Better yet, any other Republican said this?
Neocon! Warmonger!
Had DeSantis said what Trump said this morning, putting on the table sending Ukraine over $100B more in weapons, every MAGA influencer on this site would be posting about it and calling him a neocon.
We all know it. Don't bother gaslighting otherwise.
— Bonchie (@bonchieredstate) July 16, 2023
Hilarious. Trump is asked to explain how he would actually end the Ukraine war in one day. He says he would tell Zelensky to stop and then tell Putin we will arm Ukraine a lot more if he doesn't agree???
No wonder he skipped the Tucker Iowa event.pic.twitter.com/wqbx5EMI0m
— AG (@AGHamilton29) July 16, 2023
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Comments
We could end the war in short order by simply not supplying Ukraine.
Yeah, possibly, but more likely what would result is a an ending no one would want. President Trump has to deal with the pre-existing situation and is exploring means to negotiate the best resolution possible as quickly as possible. A variation of peace through strength.
Trump got three Peace deals between Israel and Arab states. So, I guess he knows the process.
Russia is hardly Israel or the entire Middle East. It looks like desperation to me that he would say such a contrary thing from his past view on war. He might not realize that Russia has nukes and threatening them is not really smart. I don’t mean that he doesn’t know they have nukes but Putin is in a corner now and desperate men do desperate things. This is the last thing that I believed I would ever hear from Trump. The primary is a long way off!
Russia could end the war tomorrow by pulling out of Ukraine. An absurd thought!
BBBBUTTT NAZIs and ZELENSKYY!
Doesn’t matter. The war will be over Long before Trump takes office. So we’ll not need to test Trump on this new policy of his.
Russian forces are killing Ukrainians at rates Ukraine cannot sustain. And Biden/EU ruined all chance at negotiated peace.
Worth noting – Not long after taking office Trump ordered a MOAB dropped on a large Taliban camp. Annihilation ensued.
He then opened negotiations with Taliban leadership.
Depends on what you call Ukraine? Do you include the Crimea in that?
Barry lost the Crimea so it’s too late to do anything as that should have been done before Russia annexed it.
Khrushchev gifted Crimea to Ukraine. Catherine II snatched Crimea from a weak Tatar Khanate. Previous to that the Ottomans, Greeks, Romans, pre Slavics controlled Crimea, Don, Dneiper, Dniester.
Crimea is not a Russian property running forever and ever. By the way, the Turks control the Bosporus and suffer Russian navy transit at their pleasure.
Trump needs to talk with Vivek on an actual good plan for stopping the war not engage in Forever War rhetoric where the US National Interest is not represented. We have no reason to be involved in a war concerning a non-NATO country. In fact, we should pull out of NATO and let Europe take care of itself. They have enough money for a massive welfare state and green nonsense, they have enough to defend themselves from Russia. We have spent way too much over the decades. Enough already
Just like we could have ended WW2 by not supplying the UK and Russia. Right?
poor analogy,…very poor
This is a lot more complex than that. For one thing, if Russia tries to takeover Ukraine it will require hundreds of thousands of troops to stay there and police the country unless they commit mass genocide, and Russia does not have that kind of force left. Zelensky is the main problem and dementia Joe doesn’t realize it. He is an ex-comedian who has ties to the neo-Nazi movement in Ukraine. He has shown all the makings of a dictator by stopping all free press. Arresting any political opposition. Closing all churches. Sound familiar? Your suggestion of not supplying weapons to them may have turned out to be the correct one because of the effort required by Russia to accomplish what they wanted. An occupying force is a terrible thing to have to maintain and just like when they were in Afghanistan, they paid big time in blood.
Except that I don’t believe that was Putin’s plan. It appears that he was only intent on annexing the Eastern provinces of Ukraine to give him a land route to Crimea. After all, he invaded the same provinces in 2014 when he annexed Crimea in the first place, and the West’s reaction under Obama was muted at best. It’s likely that he expected the same reaction from Biden and NATO. The lands he was targeting are ethnic Russian, and it’s unlikely he expected serious resistance. He misjudged Zelensky.
The Eastern provinces were all on the coast and that would mean that Ukraine would lose most of its sea front and ports. No country is going to allow that. What if Mexico only wanted Texas back from the US? Does that make any sense? That’s how absurd Putin’s claim is.
To Inspectorudy,
Well if Texas were majority Mexicans, and the US was abusing those Mexicans, and the US made an agreement that they would not move their War machine there, and the US was doing everything to destroy Mexico and Texas was the center of all corruption, and Texas had Biolabs to infect my Mexican population and………
Suggesting that the leader who doesn’t want what the Russians did to Afghanistan to happen to his own country “is the problem” seems like a weird take.
Zelensky isn’t the problem. Putin is the problem. And we’re limited in how we can deal with that problem.
You have jumped into the argument in the middle. Putin’s reason for his invasion is because of Zelensky and his Nazi regiment and what he was doing or allowing to be done to the Russian people in the Eastern provinces. Zelensky is not the Robin Hood that the msm has painted him to be. He and his cronies all have multiple homes in all of the large European cities along with luxury cars and a high lifestyle living all from money given to their country for defense. Zelensky’s wife was just photoed on a shopping spree in Paris. I don’t pretend to know what is going on there but I don’t think a beggar like Zelensky should be dictating the outcome. Biden is partially to blame for his stupid statement and lack of involvement.
He had a horrible relationship with Vladimir Putin who was bidding his time to see if Republicans wouldn’t negotiate with him over implementing the Minsk accords would the Democrats do so, and when Joe Biden announced just like Trump did he didn’t do red lines and would not be influenced by Russian positions Putin invaded.
Americans had little to no input on the Minsk accords. The Krauts handed Crimea and the Don river basin to Russia on a silver platter..
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier is a Russophile and America hater.
Then you agree with my assessment correct?
Trump refused to implement Minsk, murdered Russian soldiers in Syria (there is no other way to describe killing without a declaration of war, justification of self defense, or even justification of a national interest involved) and routinely waged economic war on Russia via sanctions completely unprovoked.
I don’t think you disagree with me that is a description of an atrocious relationship with Putin and Russia and one that could be considered (at best) horrible.
Whatever you think of Minsk nations refusing to honor their agreements to another nation…that is not what I would call a good relationship.
I just listened to VDH’s Blade of Perseus audiocast. He thinks the war will continue for a long time to come. “Verdun” fashion.
I just wanted to add context about Minsk I and II.
The “bidding” is over; now Russia and China are “Biden” their time…
Is this the same Biden who refused to implement Minsk, concerning Ukrainian NATO membership being labelled a red line to war by Russia announced he doesn’t do red lines and continued membership discussions, ramped up military supplies and training to Ukraine, sent arsenals worth of equipment valued significantly more than the Russian military budget to Ukraine, used his diplomatic influence in Western Europe to create major sanctions on Russia and encouraging other western weapons to be sent to Ukraine, and has as his foreign policy whatever it takes to make Russia lose the war and suffer a second collapse that Biden?
I don’t like Biden, I however do not in any way shape or form approve of an alternate reality where he is pro-Russian because it isn’t reality, and pretending it is does make you look like a total war monger.
To do more than Biden for Ukraine has would require a formal declaration of war which would be the end of humanity because whoever loses on the battlefield would use their nuclear arsenal (resulting in counter-nukes).
I think avoiding this war would have beaten the Trump/Biden policy and I am not ashamed to say so and I am not shifting position because Trump doesn’t hold it.
Allowing a neocon globalist weasel such as Lindsey Graham to influence policy proposals is a bad idea. Most of the GoP base and a larger % of the indy voters have moved on from the policies of the past; coercion, bullying and threatening more military adventurism.
While no candidate can prevent a political figure or a private Citizen from endorsing them they can keep them at arms length. Bringing the failed neocon policy ideas into the inner circle much less campaigning with the neocons is a horrible decision.
It fits in with his “strategy” of running to the left of DeSantis,though.
I agree and this statement by Trump is a real shocker to me. In my lifetime since nuclear weapons have been available, I have never heard of such an open threat against another nuclear nation. Some may like his boldness but as in any taunt, the response from the other party is critical. If it is the Dirty Harry one we are in big trouble. “Go ahead, make my day”.
I have never heard of such an open threat against another nuclear nation.
The former Soviet Union did it constantly to US, UK, France, and NAtO. In recent years, both The Russian Federation, and CCP-China have done similarly. See “Wolf-Warrior Diplomacy.”
Iran tends to make such bluster, tho they don’t have the world-power arsenal themselves. Back in they day Sadam Hussein’s regime in Iraq promised escalating annihilation to anybody in reach, and many who in the event were not.
No, they didn’t openly threaten the West with a vocal statement. They did it with the implementation of assets that threatened as in Cuba. They made statements like “We will bury you” but only in retaliation for some threatening thing the West did like in Turkey with missiles aimed at Russia. No matter what Trump meant, it is the opposite of his approach in the past.
“No matter what Trump meant, it is the opposite of his approach in the past.”
Maybe. I do recall some bluster about “My button’s bigger than yours.” dealing with Little Rocket Man. Or maybe read “The Art of The Deal” for The Orange Crush’s take on negotiating.
The rest is BS, for example look up “We will bury you.” even on Wiki-ganda (until someone edits it.) When was that Cuban Missile Crisis again? Not 1956, but what’s half a dozen years between comrades?
For the last several months various and sundry Russian generals in the Russian language press talk openly about nooking Ukraine.
Trump being indiscreet is Trump. Not that I approve it in this instance.
Generals are not the CIC. Only the words of the leaders count. Look at the Chinese generals and how they talk trash constantly about crushing the USA. Doesn’t mean a thing.
I think it is time to stop infantilizing Trump. This policy does not come from Lindsay Graham it is direct from Trump.
His reaction to the start of the invasion was to label it genocide. He wasn’t significantly different from Biden towards Russia in office, and with some waffling that he has no recanted isn’t different towards Russia out of office either.
We had the cold war with Russia, men and women of Trump’s generation have the ripple effect of seeing that country as a permanent enemy.
The Republican Party is going to have a hard time surviving the primaries intact. If so, it will have a harder time surviving at all after the looming loss in 2024. As of today, I don’t see us capable of beating the other team of ‘nothing and next to nothing’.
It is looking grim, but take heart! There are still many more miles (and months) to go, and a lot can change in that time.
Take heart! Encouraging news from the Greater Boston Area: A diverse group of Shopping Mall Santas show unity by organizing a political action committee called “Da Santas for De Santis”.
Okay, that did it. I laughed out loud. I love that! I wanna organize Da Santas for DeSantis this Christmas!
I saw a video of DeSantis this weekend. He was at a Dairy Queen (after Trump had been to one) wearing a vest (in a blatant rip-off of Youngkin).
If he stopped being so fake, I would be willing to give him a chance. He needs to get rid of the consultants that are giving him bad advice.
There is no longer any denying that his funding comes from billionaires that support establishment Republicans. Either drop the MAGA-lite pretense or go all-in as an establishment candidate. But the contradiction is hurting his candidacy.
He has worn a fleece vest a number of times.
I could understand basing your assessment on looks and mannerisms alone if that’s all we had to go on, but it’s not. DeSantis has a stellar record as governor, and it’s been very conservative and consistent. But if you think he’s fake because he wore a vest that you think he stole from Youngkin . . . I really don’t have anything to say to you.
DeSantis does have a very fine conservative record. But we have plenty of conservatives to pick from in the Republican field. Success in the general election (and as president) requires leadership, and also a certain amount of likability. DeSantis has shown great organizational skills as governor, but very little in the way of true leadership.
Part of the reason is that he does not come across as genuine. DeSantis is an excellent public speaker, but his attempts to craft his public persona seem forced and fake. I believe he may well be a policy wonk and nerd. He should just own that and be himself. Instead, he seems unsure, unconfident, and not very likable.
I want him to become a good candidate and a worthy challenger for Trump. Whoever wins will be a better candidate in the Fall. Right now, he is a very poor candidate.
DQ and vests…..the globalism just reeks right through it
god you can’t make this idiocy of the trumpets up.
In terms of true leadership how about the covid crisis?
How about the fact that he has fought Disney and other mega corporations the other “conservatives” in the race would have cow towed to under the same circumstances?
If you compare DeSantis to Tim Scott who would you pick based on record? Tim Scott is from not a but THE red state.
Utah has a vastly redder electorate than Florida, opposition to gender ideology has resulted in a member of their board of education being suspended.
Furthermore as far as electoral record goes
Florida was a swing state in 2018, year of the giant blue wave. He defeated a blue wave year.
OMG! Next, you’ll go after his wife for having big eyebrows!
That’s because they stick together and we fight among ourselves.
The Rs, since WF Buckley days, have usually fought over ‘principles’…meaning how best to lose and look noble doing it. It’s not a straight line of course but always frustrating.
It’s called “primary season”. It used to be the case that we’d fight like tigers until a nominee was selected, and then we’d (pretty much) unite behind him. Not anymore, as the Perotistas have declared war against the Republican Party.
A fair number of us also stick with them.
Yep most on this site would probably describe themselves as conservatives yet the prevailing posts and articles could be titled “Anyone but Trump”.
I also read the Powerline Blog and its writers are also hardcore never Trumpers, though most of the posters are not.
I have no problem with Desantis and quite frankly, like him as a candidate for 2028 but if he is the nominee for 2024 would support him. Many on this site and establishment supporters would never vote for Trump or anyone that supports his agenda of America first, secure borders, no endless foreign wars etc.
Unfortunately, the GOP is really 2 parties the populist conservative wing that believes in the ideas espoused by Goldwater and Reagan and the establishment wing that first called Rockefeller Republicans when he was their leader. It is best represented by Romney and the Bush clan.
The divide of the 2 groups was best illustrated in 2010 when the Tea Party led the GOP to massive gains in the house and state legislatures but was bitterly opposed by McConnel and the establishment party leaders afraid of losing their power and gravy train which has enriched them and their donors at the expense of the American middle class and working class.
His “agenda” aka the crap he spews don’t track with what actually happens. That’s why we don’t support him. It’s not because most of his ideas are bad…it’s that he doesn’t execute them.
In this case, though, it’s a bad idea and he’s somehow suggesting that it’s a good one. Why don’t you carry your Trump water trying to excuse his comments in the article?
As I have pointed out several times I will support the GOP nominee period through it may be more just opposing the Dems.
Perhaps someone else could work with Congress better but I expect that the uniparty will continue to block effective action to control the border and immigration, to reign in the administrative state or to promote American prosperity over the interests of the globalists and Chinese interests l.
I don’t really care about parsing any verbal tidbits or gaffes from Trump or any realistic GOP nominee.
Actually the carrot and stick approach works pretty well in diplomacy. Russia wants control over Crimea and Russian speaking areas in the Donbas. They already pretty much have that unless we provide vast amounts of military resources. Russia knows that would be stupid to prolong the war indefinitely as all that would accomplish is to kill thousands of Russians, 10s of thousands of Ukrainianns and consume billions of dollars of resources from Russia and the U.S.
Much like 2014 I think Russia would take the deal in large part as it represents their frequently stated objectives.
Who did a better job stopping Democrat judges McConnell after 2014 when he was in charge, or Trump after 2022?
Sorry but I am sick to death of your crusade to fight internal battles over aesthetics. If your chance of winning is bad your chance of me supporting you for the nomination is zero.
I have zero interest in battles over who should be senator in 2013 or 2014, far from wishing to have a lost cause mythology I am glad Republicans like Mitch McConnell stopped Obama judges and made the last one appointed pre-2014 election and I wish crusaders like you would return to Earth.
We just sacrificed 2022 on the altar of Trump/delusions lets stop doing that. We could have taken the senate and avoided further Biden judges.
Return to Earth immediately, and stop being bitter about who Republican voters chose for senate in Mississippi a decade ago.
You could also explain how identical policies from Mitt Romney and Donald Trump impact the working class differently.
How the heck could Trump stop Dem judges in 2022?
The radical leftist that was confirmed to the Supreme Court was after Trump left office although timing isn’t important as McConnell was and still is the GOP leader in the Senate
Danny are you on drugs?
What in the heck is the Mississippi Senate question about? I haven’t seen any post on this thread about any Mississippi issue.
I will give you a couple of examples of differences between Romney and Trump. Pro American trade policies with China and no open borders and controlled immigration vs. open borders and amnesty.
Please don’t be rude to Danny (or anyone here, except me, maybe :P). He’s right, a bit over-wrought and thus kind of writing free-style, off the top of his head, but he’s absolutely correct. Danny’s point is that Trump really did screw over the ’22 midterms; what should have been an historic red wave was a hugely disappointing raindrop (and that fell in Florida, thanks to Ron DeSantis–not just his win, but his work in cleaning up our elections and reining in the blue areas’ covid voting protocols.).
Danny’s point, of course, is that had Trump kept his stupid crazy out of the races (as but one example, Dr. Oz, the celebrity–something Trump reveres, from NJ can so totes win in PA because he’s on TV!), we would have had a red wave, and would then have been able to stop Biden’s judicial appointments (he’s already outpacing Trump on that, in case you haven’t heard. And yes, it’s important.).
1. Trump helped Democrats make himself the issue which is one of the primary reasons Democrats won in 2022
2. Trump picked unelectable candidates in every competitive statewide election resulting in defeats
3. Trump actually GAVE DEMOCRATS THE SENATE in 2022 by helping them win TWO Georgia senate seats (seats he helped them keep in 2022 when he first picked a bad candidate then for the runoff made his run for president officially start).
4. Trump caused the radical Democrats to be appointed to judgeships all over the place at a much faster rate than what he achieved. That is bad.
@Mauio
“Danny are you on drugs?
What in the heck is the Mississippi Senate question about? I haven’t seen any post on this thread about any Mississippi issue.”
The reason I brought up Mississippi is that is the kind of issue you have. The fact that your responded actual complaints are figments of your imagination does show that.
You think Romney is a pro-China guy?
Here is Romney on China
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904836104576558090193802586
As for immigration here is Romney on immigration
https://www.romney.senate.gov/romney-introduces-bill-make-e-verify-permanent/
https://rollcall.com/2021/02/23/gop-senators-propose-10-minimum-wage-mandatory-e-verify/
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/trump-romneys-crazy-policy-of-self-deportation-cost-votes-084238
(Note who the attacker is in that case)
What you are bitter about is not policy.
Isn’t it interesting how different people can look at the same situation and see something completely different?
Even the language used by the different GOP factions is different. Take “Never Trumpers,” as an example. You use it, or seem to here, as so many other of our Only Trump commenters do: as anyone who is not supporting Trump in the ’24 GOP presidential primary. It doesn’t matter if they voted for him in 2016, 2020, or both; it doesn’t matter that they will vote for him if he wins the primary. They’re still “Never Trumpers.” That’s strange to me.
To me, a “Never Trumper” is someone who refused to vote for him at all, even going so far as to actually vote for Hillary or Corrupt Gropin’ Slow Joe. People like the Lincoln Project, like Liz Let’s find a country to bomb Cheney and sniveling little weepy pants Adam Kinzinger or Smarmy Mittens McRomneyCare. Weird how that works, huh?
As to your two parties within the GOP idea; I think it’s a bit more complex than that. Instead of lumping everyone who did vote for Trump (twice) but are just done now and ready for some winning for a change in with the establishment, country club Republicans, have you considered that it’s entirely possible for Tea Party patriots who loathe the GOPe, the deep state, the bigness of government to have just split off from both Trump and the GOPe? Perhaps seeking a conservative who is neither a corrupt globalist, big spending, big government, war-mongering neocon NOR feckless as is Trump? Who is, as our dear gonzo likes to say, effectively all hat and no cattle?
Trump talks a good game, is probably the best crowd-rousing, sloganeer since (on our side) Reagan (from whom, ironically enough, Trump got his MAGA slogan: “Make America Great Again” is, of course, Reagan’s from 1980.). But Trump has proven that he has no ability to work with Congress to pass lasting change. He’s ALREADY attacking members of the House and Senate, and he’s not even got the nomination yet. Do you really imagine they are going to be falling over themselves to help him when he’s going out of his way to harm them and their careers? Does that even make sense to you? It doesn’t to me.
For me, the final straw with Trump was his attacks on Ron DeSantis PRIOR to the 2022 midterms. It showed so much. He was petty, spiteful, not at all team player, and most importantly, that he had learned absolutely nothing during his time in office. He’s the head of the party, and midterms were in DAYS. He couldn’t try to help his party get through one election without attacking HIS OWN SIDE? He’s spent more money on attack ads on DeSantis than he did helping his own hand-picked candidates in 2022. He threw away (arguably) both Georgia Senate seats over petty crap. Are these the actions of someone who genuinely believes our country is in crisis? That the Obama-Biden-Harris agenda must be stopped at all costs? I think not.
That’s if I can’t have it, no one can.
Not, in other words, putting America First.
There were other things, piling up, of course, but those comments about DeSantis prior to the midterms were the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I was and am done.
That does not mean I regret my 2020 vote FOR Trump (or my 2016 vote AGAINST Hillary), I don’t. I don’t regret the time and effort I put into defending Trump against Democrat lies on these pages for the four years he was in office. I don’t regret my support for Trump as an incumbent in ’20 (as a whimsical aside, I actually bought a Trump hat. I had never in my life bought any political merch, not even back in 2009-10 when I was working to get Scott Brown elected up in Massachusetts to stop ObamaCare. So I really was on the Trump train, at least for a while.).
But not supporting Trump for the ’24 GOP presidential nomination hardly makes me an establishment, country club Republican. That’s just a bridge too far. I am to the right of Trump on pretty much everything, actually, as anyone who’s been reading LI for any length of time knows. And not just on cultural issues like Disney, Bud Light, and grooming kids in public schools.
For example, Trump’s saying he wants to move the FBI closer to the DOJ, right next to it in DC. That’s the freaking opposite of draining the swamp. He’s not said one word, ever, about abolishing any federal agency (and there are a long, long list that need to go or be folded into one, competent, non-partisan agency; even DeSantis only has four on his radar, but it’s better than zero).
And Trump’s argument for his readiness to drain the swamp (you know, this time, for sure) is that he’s better at reading people now. He knows the good ones and the bad ones (why does he talk like a five-year-old? So annoying). Or something. Insane. The man’s 77 years old, and he’s just now able to read people? He didn’t know that Comey was a slimy POS? I knew it. You knew it. How could Trump NOT know it.
Ditto all the other appointments he made and his abject failure to drain the swamp, and he gets excused because “no one knew.” Look back over our comments for the past 12 years. EVERYONE knew McConnell was an establishment sleazeball. EVERYONE knew Rona Romney was a disaster. EVERYONE knew about all of the times Obama had weaponized Executive branch agencies against the Tea Party and conservatives, even against Fox News and its reporters. EVERYONE knew about Obama’s multiple efforts to censor Americans spreading–what they now call “misinformation,” but what they then called “fighting the smears”–remember Attack Watch? Its earlier incarnation as “flag the fishy“? If I knew, you knew, and everyone with two brain cells to rub together knew, how could Trump NOT know what was going on with the deep state? It makes no sense to me that people even make this argument because it makes Trump look even worse (completely feckless and clueless). I mean if Joe and Joanne and even the baby Jody Schmoe all knew from their home in middle America, isn’t it worse that Trump couldn’t figure it out?
Anyway, there are more than two factions in the GOP. Keep in mind, too, that more than a few of Only Trumpers are just that: they’ve literally only ever voted in one or two presidential elections, one or both times for Trump. Those are not Republicans. They are not conservatives. They are disaffected indies, anarchists (rightwing ones), and other non-civic-minded persons. They aren’t even part of the Republican party, or they weren’t until Trump came along and have made it more than abundantly clear they aren’t sticking around if he loses the nomination or wins the nomination but loses (as he will) the general. Trump’s no spring chicken, and when he’s gone, they’re gone. They’ve said so. Repeatedly.
It would be pretty if things were as neat and tidy as you like. But people are complex, and their politics are complex unless they don’t think at all and just blindly follow some charismatic leader who makes big promises, keeps none of them, makes them again, and they believe them again based solely on blind faith since there is no record of lasting accomplishment. Sorry, that’s just mind-blowing to me.
I just think you have a pretty simplistic view of what’s been going since 41 (the Tea Party was really composed of people rejecting his progressive “compassionate conservatism” and endless wars and picked up speed when Obama took office and started ramming his version of progressive socialism down our throats). Many people in the Tea Party did become MAGA, but not all of us stayed on the Trump Train.
Ok I am not going to respond to the entire thread but simply ask a question.
I have stated that I have no problem with DeSantis and if he is the nominee will vote for him.
If Trump is the nominee which is very possible will you vote for him or sit the el croon out?
Of course I would vote for Trump if he is the GOP nominee. It won’t help because he’ll win my state anyway in a general and all of its Electoral votes (I live in Florida, a winner take all state).
Which states do you think Trump should actually care about and focus on? Where are there problems that he has not addressed in the past two years except to royally irk anyone in own party who might help him (*cough* Kemp *cough*). But Trump is an idiot, his team is full of idiots, and he’s going to lose Georgia. Again. Was there cheating there? Oh, yes, I truly believe there was. I was watching the results come in and was completely mortified when it all went dark, they quit counting. I knew the fix was in. We all knew. We can’t prove it, but in that moment, we knew.
And Trump has done absolutely nothing to build bridges in the affected states to ensure there isn’t a replay; indeed, he goes out of his way to piss off the people (Kemp!) who can help him. He’s completely useless and won’t win, but yeah, I’ll vote for him again if he wins the GOP nomination.
And then settle in for the next four years of Newsom ‘Making America California.’ The joy.
Fuzzy this is actually in response to your post saying that you would indeed vote for Trump if he is the nominee.
I have no clue what states that Trump wins that he lost in 2020 or how DeSantis would do there.
My guess is it depends on if Manchin or other Dem pol runs on a 3rd party ticket and if the state courts will enforce their laws on ballot security, witness signatures of vote by mail ballots and enforcing the opposition party’s right to observe and contest the election. I do think some non woke Dem voters are wise to Biden and will sit the election out but have no clue if that is 1 percent or double digits.
If some positive actions are taken by state courts and a few honest Fed courts then a GOP candidate has a chance in the swing states . If the courts allow the Democrat counties to ignore the law and cheat at will the election is already over. I would bet that with the Obiden machine going full bore to eliminate opposition that there is little that they are not capable of to maintain power. That becomes even more imperative with the Biden family probably facing felonies if they lose.
Ah, now you are speaking my language. If Manchin runs, he’ll pull a lot from Biden, but he will also pull from Trump. I honestly don’t know who would be harmed the most, but Manchin was running on all cylinders with right-leaning Indies, squishy Republicans, and fed-up Democrats . . . until he blew it all with his (seriously bizarre) trust in Chuck Schumer (who on God’s green earth would trust Schumer on anything? Anything?). Manchin voted for the Green New Deal on Schumer’s word that he’d get his pipeline. Duuuuuuuuude.
Manchin was gumming up the works, refusing to eliminate the Senate filibuster (along with Sinema, both deserve not only our approval but some modicum of respect. What they did in stopping the radical Biden agenda is immeasurable. Frankly, this is super important. Trump kept trying to harangue Senate GOP leadership to trash it because he wanted to steam roll his inchoate crap post hasty. McConnell, for once, did the right thing. He said “no.” Honestly, that is one of the best things that has happened for the right in a very long time (excluding culture war wins).
Do you get what important move that was by McConnell?
Since Manchin ended up looking like a swamp thing sell-out drooling moron, he’s no longer a threat to either party’s nominee. He could have been, but he blew it.
Oh, the federal courts absolutely matter. Don’t you wonder why Trump didn’t have his DOJ investigate states that were working, clearly and blatantly and proudly, outside the law, up to and including violating their own states’ Constitution.
Here’s the thing: Trump thought then, as he does now, that he was coasting to victory. All of the election shenanigans were all going on right under his nose, but he was confident that he would win no matter what the Dems did, so he let it all slide. That is lazy and careless. What did he think the presidency was? It’s hard to tell because he infamously called the U.S. Military “his army.” I’m sorry, but what the freaking hell? The Constitituion does not provide for a presidents’ personal army. That is just insane. Trump, if he’s elected (and he won’t be) He does not and cannot, per our Constitution, name himself king or Super Kid Comb-over.
Trump is Hillary without the Arkancide baggage. But make no mistake, Trump is the newly-crowned most hated pol in presidential politics in America (just eking out Hillary for that top spot). Trump will just phone it in because that is who he is. He was a phone-in president (via EO’s) and he’s now a phone-in GOP presidential candidate. Trump is just riding it out in own “presidential bunker’ or whatever.
Trump’s level of hubris, the degree to which he takes his truly earnest worshipers for granted, is completely insane in American politics, but there it is. Trump, even if he did win (and of course he can’t per the EC numbers; they just aren’t there for him), would care first, foremost, and always about Trump.
[FS: to all]
For example, Trump’s saying he wants to move the FBI closer to the DOJ, right next to it in DC. That’s the freaking opposite of draining the swamp. He’s not said one word, ever, about abolishing any federal agency (and there are a long, long list that need to go or be folded into one, competent, non-partisan agency; even DeSantis only has four on his radar, but it’s better than zero).
This is a lighten rod topic in the DC area and connected with Jamie Raskin and Steny Hoyer. This actually was an interesting statement and he is on game here and he is playing with the controlling swamp. The Virginia and Maryland areas are lobbying for the new FBI HQ. It is a political hot potato. I would think a little deeper on this one for what you said is more a talking point than reality.
Paula, that might be the view from some but I would like to say we are debating the candidates rather than fighting. The left have no candidates except Biden so there isn’t much to fight over.
From where will these weapons come? I thought everything was in short supply.
Have you never heard of a magic hat?
The ones from which Bullwinkle pulls lions?
Yes. It’s always better to go with the larger size.
LOL, you two crack me up! 😛
“Watch me pull an Easter Bunny out of my hat!”
“That trick never works!”
Bullwinkle always said he needs a new hat. Maybe he gave the old one to Trump
Felix the cat, and his bag of tricks.
If Trump is re-elected (he won’t be but let’s pretend he is) he will immediately create Operation Warp Speed Pt. 2 and somehow the military/industrial complex will be put into warp speed to produce as much weaponry and ammunition as needed at only 10X the cost to the U.S. taxpayer.
What possibly could go wrong.
Lu, you are making the same mistake most Trumpers make and that is he can do it alone. He can’t and must have Congress to make it happen. Looking at his history, he failed in everything he did except the huge spending bill and the tax cut. Without Congress, he can’t do anything for long.
Not Trump’s style. Usually he adds novel stuff to a deal to make a deal so that it’s a deal about other things too that they never thought about.
Ugh, not the answer I wanted to hear. But we are in a position of no good answers on how to handle the mess gifted to the next president by the idiot criminal Biden.
I’m done with him.
So are we going to be building factories, ramping up production at existing ones to supply Ukraine with the arms they need? As I recall we seem to be critically low on some of our own supplies when it comes to munitions.
Big, beautiful factories for our amazing American workers to build arms to protect ::: checks notes ::: Ukraine’s border. But the factories, they’ll be yuge! And beautiful, the best arms factories in the world!
Is this supposed to be a slam?
Not at all. Trump spent 4 years protecting what was left of Ukraine’s borders after Obama let Putin annex Crimea. Of course, the problem I see is that none of the weapons they build will be tested to see if they actually work, or whether they’ll blow up and kill the people they’re supposed to protect.
Perhaps, but I’m commenting more on the fact a re-elected Trump would commission American manufacturers to make American ammunition. That’s a compliment in my view, and not a slam.
As for Ukraine, I will say that Trump handled the foreign policy that was/is given to him. If there is a good solution as to how to handle this mess I’m sure Americans will be all ears.
“Perhaps, but I’m commenting more on the fact a re-elected Trump would commission American manufacturers to make American ammunition.”
To go to Ukraine.
A lot like commissioning American petroleum producers to produce petroleum to be sent to China, after exhausting THAT military reserve, too.
Who knew? White people’s countries truly ARE for everyone (else).
“”If there is a good solution as to how to handle this mess””
But of course, that’s what we’re discussing – Trump’s “solution”. Apparently you agree that the “24 hours” thing is a bit optimistic.
Will the plants have golden escalators?
It is not known for sure, but it is fairly certain Zelensky will have golden elevator shoes.
Fuzzy, may I suggest a small edit? “..and I’ll get Mexico to pay for it all.”
Hehe!
They will have plenty of low wage illegal aliens to work in them. Wife’s company has a bunch fresh from the border working in her warehouse. Can’t speak English, government is putting them up in hotels, feeding them and provides a van to get them to and from work every day.
And they will be manned by illegals!
Operation Warp Speed Pt. 2!! What could possibly go wrong with that. 🙄
Biden got us in this mess and Putin is not going to just step aside at this point
President Trump can’t very well say what he’s willing to give Putin but at the end of the day, Putin will get land
Not quite. The neocons and DC establishment hell bent on imposing their version of globalism got us into this. The big flare up was 2014, color revolutions, as well as the continual eastward expansion of NATO towards Russia.
NATO was created as an alliance to check the USSR and their client States. The fall of the USSR should have marked the winding down of NATO. After all the basic justification for the existence of NATO, opposition to the Soviet Union, disintegrated with the fall of the Soviet Union in ’91.
Instead the establishment kept pushing and expanding transferring the boogeyman of the USSR to Russia (couldn’t put it on China b/c the same establishment types had signed off on western investment in and cooperation with China). All those think tanks and defense dollars need justification so they created one in Russia despite China being far more dangerous to the USA.
Bottom line is this has it’s roots all the way back to the end of the cold war and many of the same establishment figures in power then who helped create the facade of the Russian boogeyman have only gotten more powerful in the decades since as they advance up the establishment ladder. This despite them all missing the Intel that the USSR was about to fall (our establishment was surprised) and their public sell out to China; inviting them into the IMF, granting favored nation trading status, removing tariffs, outsource manufacturing jobs and resource extraction jobs to China.
Of course he will. How much land is the question. Putin is now supplying pressure for a deal by cutting off wheat exports from all ports. Putin see’s how badly this is going and wants a deal but one that will allow him to save face. Let’s give him one since we are in the drivers seat and can force Ukraine to do a deal or get no more money or arms.
Hello? Did you not see what he said? He said he would THREATEN Putin! He didn’t say what he would GIVE Putin.
Not only that…he openly discussed a hollow threat shell game he would play between Zelensky and Putin.
More of that 3-D chess….where he telegraphs his moves to potential players on the board.
The trick is, Trump is a wild enough card that even when he’s bluffing, you’re not sure if he’s crazy enough to go through with the bluff.
He’s like Larry Bird talking shit on the court before doing the *exact* thing he said – it works as a bluff when he switches it up, and it works as a double-bluff when he does exactly as he stated.
What weapons? What weapons have we got that would scare Putin that much?
Tony the Plague Horseman.
I do believe that Trump was referring to the amount
That wasn’t one of the brighter things Trump has said lately.
But what I really want to hear from his is his plan to drain the swamp. Or any indication that such a detailed plan actually exists.
I suspect you have a long wait.
Vivek has a plan, a pretty specific one. Will it work? I’m doubtful but at least he has a plan.
As Marines are told in Officers School: “Inertia is not an option. Have a plan. Good plan, bad plan, doesn’t matter. Have a plan and commit to it then adapt to conditions”
I don’t know if he has a plan but I do know this, he is well aware that if he doesn’t drain the swamp, the swamp will drain him.
This is why I am not too excited by his uuughe lead because of his big mouth. This is totally contradictory to what he has said in the past. He has abortion to talk about and he has changed three times on that. He has the LGBT+XYZ to talk about and he has supported and acknowledged them in the past. School choice. EVs. Reparations for nonslaves. The woke military. The corrupt DoJ and FBI. Recently he said that nominating Wray MAY have been wrong but not to worry because Chris Christie made him do it! Like I said, the primary is a long way off.
“For four years Trump averted misadventures by Putin. He would praise Putin publicly (which made lib heads explode) and threaten him privately.
Some similar -but not exactly the same- strategy is expected in his second term.”
Brietbart
Trumpbart.
Trump has made several mistakes recently. For instance, he is saying on cable shows he is so far ahead in the polls he doesn’t need to debate. What he means is he doesn’t like the primary system and wants a coronation instead. Secondly, although he is usually right about things, he shoots from the hip when he responds to questions extemporaneously. With these weapons to Ukraine admissions, his political opponents will jump on him for making a non-strategic comment and saying he is not fit to serve. I know you’ll hate what I just posted. Still, one of Trump’s glaring weaknesses is that he speaks in superlatives and makes self-aggrandizing analogies to the point he sounds like a braggart causing a large percentage of voters not to take him seriously.
Sounds like Kennedy over Soviet missiles in Cuba. Threaten publicly, cut a deal in private away from cameras and the press.
And you know this because……………?
Secrete insider club….when you go all in with your buddies on his NFT you get the secret newsletter in your AOL inbox.
Sounds huge.
Why does anyone expect a person to give out a detailed plan, years ahead of time, about how they intend to outsmart their opponent?
I swear, it’s like you’re all brain dead.
Agreed
Word
Because many of us are not inclined to trust politicians.
Good point. We should have known we wouldn’t actually get the promised border wall when Trump spilled the beans about making Mexico pay for it. As you allude to tipping your hand like that may doom the implementation. It sure did for the border wall.
Politicians killed the border wall.
It has always been Trumps greatest sin –that he is not one of them.
Trump failed to use his VETO when presented a budget by Ryan and McConnell that didn’t have funding for the border wall.
When the moment came for a showdown with the DC establishment ….Trump blinked instead of choosing to fight by using his VETO. Using it would have forced Ryan and McConnell to either try and round up the votes to override that VETO (and risk breaking the establishment hold on the GoP) or to go find money for the border wall.
It isn’t as if everyone didn’t already know the DC establishment opposed a border wall. It wasn’t a secret until after Trump got inaugurated. A wide variety of folks had been calling for it for decades and DC establishment continued to ignore them.
Trump’s promise to build the wall a big reason many folks voted for Trump in ’16. If he had used his VETO and the Dac establishment was able to override it then you could legit make the claim that the DC.establishment blocked it.
Since he chose to walk away from the confrontation instead of fight the DC establishment on this you can’t make a convincing case that it was all the fault of the DC establishment political class.
So if a man has a plan to save tens of thousands of lives but can’t reveal it unless he gets elected in two years, isn’t that called blackmail? Should he be up for the Nobel prize once he gets elected and reveals his plan? I think you might want to look in the mirror to see what brain dead looks like.
What Trump put up is a really weak plan that’s actually dangerous even if it’s false. It tells neither counterpart to trust him nor to stand down.
Were this 2020 you might be able to delude skeptics enough into thinking he has a deeper plan…but we’ve seen that pathetic song and dance and it got booed off the stage already.
Forget the obvious point that Russia having far more people and industrial might than Ukraine makes the natural long term outcome of the war hard to avoid. But, fighting back and forth for years in Ukraine eventually means much of the country will become a wasteland, even if they can arrange a Korean solution. Are American taxpayers going to pony up a trillion for reconstruction? Has anyone thought this through?
I question Russia’s might as if were as powerful as we’ve been hearing for the last 50 years, Ukraine would have fallen long ago
Russia’s might is based on nuclear weapons and not their poorly performing military. A cornered rat with a nuclear weapon is the most powerful enemy you can have because they are unpredictable and irrational.
The nuclear arsenal +dominating geographical location across Eurasia +tremendous oil/Nat Gas deposits + rare earth minerals +gold deposits + the leading producer and exporter of grain among other things.
Russia isn’t a weak nation as some would like to believe. Their military isn’t up to snuff with the US on a unit by unit comparison of combat effectiveness. On the other hand they are gaining hard won combat experience, weeding out the underperforming officers, learning to lean on their NCO Corps which is also becoming more professional. All this combined they are becoming a more effective fighting force. Equipment is an issue for them. When they solve that production puzzle and if they don’t back slide into old culture of cronyism and corruption within their Army they gonna be more formidable.
Big banks are already signing rebuilding contracts as you speak. This is the honey hole of the 21st century.
This situation looks to me more like this:
— It’s more accurately “The Russian Federation.” They have a lot of resources if they can keep a lot of restive resources in line. There’s not a lot of volunteering coming from distant non-ethnic Russian provences.
— It’s more accurately not “Ukraine”, but “The Ukraine Coalition.” Ukraine on its own would have fallen in months without surprising, surprisingly effective supporting coalition.
— The mutual centers of gravity are the association and coordination within the two coalitions. Whichever one disrupts n disorganizes first loses.
— There’s a lot of driving the opposition together coming from Russia. Germany is coordinating troop movements with Poland. GB is playing nice with the EU. (WTF? Bizzarro-world here.) Finland and Sweeden got off the “don’t provoke them” dime, because if they’re gonna invade anyway…
That is not what Trump said.
I listened to the whole statement, what Trump said is he would bring them to the negotiation table and force a settlement, and that he would use the threat of shipping more weapons to Ukraine.
BY the time he becomes President Ukraine will have probably ceased to exist.
“”BY the time he becomes President Ukraine will have probably ceased to exist.””
So you think he was just bloviating about something he’ll never have to make good on? Sort of like “Lock her up”?
He was asked.
And he responded. That’s what we’ve been discussing.
Or build the wall and Mexico will pay for it. He’s been lucky so far, but if he goes on with Carlson and is asked tough questions, stand by for some new answers that show he has become more political than before.
There’s a literal direct quote of him clarifying what he said…..and it’s not good. You don’t need to paraphrase to your spin as we can read the whole thing straight from the horse’s mouth.
The Ukrainian East is where the reasons lie for Western support., not really the farms or food production areas
Rare Earth minerals, lithium, neon, palladium, potassium, and natural gas .
That’s Europe’s exit from the Putin racket empire over energy and other stuff.
That’s why Blackrock and all the interlopers are there, already dividing up ukraine
Trump will not make Europe a vassal of Russia.
Listen to what he said
He’d arm Ukraine to beat out Russia if Russia doesn’t agree to a deal.
Of course, some territory will be lost to Ukraine, the two communist shitholes
Russia occupied since 2014 but not 1/5th of country and not a Crimea controlled by Russia ( or at least militarized by Russia) because that would be a block to trade between Europe and Central Asia.
Trump is not a Russia ass kisser as the leftist media want you be believe, Russiagate ring a bell, or the loony right had hoped.
Remember, no
New wars under President Trump, zero, nada, since when has this happened?
Seems like forever
Ukraine is in the fight because of the arms Trump shipped them and the nukes Clinton took from them
Thank you for pointing this important point out. This is not just a war against Putin, it’s a war for resources. After the debacle in Afghanistan which is rich in rare earth minerals and Brandon turned over to the Chinese, he can not afford another rare earth disaster in Ukraine. This may be of the reasons he is acting so irrationally.
Good summery of the mineral resources in Ukraine https://www.icog.es/TyT/index.php/2022/05/the-mineral-resources-of-ukraine/
“Listen to what he said
He’d arm Ukraine to beat out Russia if Russia doesn’t agree to a deal.”
This is already what we’ve been doing. Doubling down on it is a shit plan.
Pretty good statement minus the part about Crimea.
Thr Russian Empire/USSR/Russian Republic have controlled the Crimea since the late 1700s until 1954 when under Soviet Russia it was ‘transferred’ to Ukraine but still under Soviet control. Then Putin took it back for Russia. They ain’t gonna give it up again without a fight.
As you point out it’s vital for black sea trade. Which is why the West/NATO won’t guarantee safety for commercial shipping for transport of Russian commodity exports. This is causing a disruption in commodity markets and will soon impact grain prices not only world spot price but especially for the Central Asian and African markets who used to rely on these shipments. Hungry people have a history of causing political instability so the damage won’t be limited to Russia.
This is why I’m not voting for Trump. We should not be involved at all in Ukrainian affairs. No how, no way. Grahamnesty is the last person anyone should look to for competent advice. Furthermore, why would any thinking person want to continue Xidens policy of propping up his money tree??
FJB
I’m not voting Trump because of Stimulus and the vaccines. Standing up for freedom and liberty abroad is something the US should do.
An America that doesn’t stand up for freedom and liberty abroad will never be great.
Yeah! We should stand up for that “country” that banned political parties, criminalized criticism of their government, has roving press gangs grabbing their young men, and has long had a horrific problem with corruption and actual nazis.
If we support that country, then we can maga!
Does that only apply to Ukraine or are you also advocating similar levels of funding and equipment/munitions transfers to EVERY other point of conflict in the world on the side of the ‘good guys’ who stand for liberty and freedom?
In case nobody has told you, we’re broke. In fact, we’re worse than broke. We’re in debt up to our eyeballs. On top of that, between Trump and Biden, we’re also functionally disarmed. We may save Ukraine if we ship the rest of our materiel over there, although I doubt that’s possible, but we’ll very possibly do so at the cost of Taiwan, the S. China Sea, and SE Asia. I’m not sure that’s a good tradeoff.