Poland, NATO: ‘No Evidence’ Russia Launched Missile That Landed in Poland, Killing Two
“From the information that we and our allies have, it was an S-300 rocket made in the Soviet Union, an old rocket and there is no evidence that it was launched by the Russian side.”
This is why everyone must keep a level head before screaming ARTICLE 5. It’s why outlets need to put “Report” in headlines and not act like anything is confirmation without confirmation.
NATO and Poland announced there is “no evidence” Russia launched the missile that landed in Poland along its border with Ukraine. It hit a grain facility and killed two people:
“This is not Ukraine’s fault. Russia bears ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters in Brussels.
NATO ambassadors were holding emergency talks to respond to the blast on Tuesday that killed two people at a grain facility in Poland near the Ukrainian border, the war’s first deadly spillover onto the territory of the Western military alliance.
“From the information that we and our allies have, it was an S-300 rocket made in the Soviet Union, an old rocket and there is no evidence that it was launched by the Russian side,” Polish President Andrzej Duda said. “It is highly probable that it was fired by Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense.”
The Polish radio station I cited yesterday continues to provide updates. I used Google translate:
If any of the missiles were intentionally heading towards Poland, we would know about it and could react in many cases. Of course, one must be aware that no air defense system is able to be 100% effective, Tomasz Szatkowski, Poland’s ambassador to NATO, told journalists.
—
“NATO allies are not part of the conflict in Ukraine,” Stoltenberg said. This was the answer to the question why the Alliance “does not want to help defend the skies over Ukraine to help intercept missiles sent from Russia.” He added, however, that NATO will continue to provide Ukraine with air defense assets.
Stoltenberg: – NATO countries agree that we must remain vigilant, calm and closely coordinated.
He stressed that the incident did not meet the criteria of a “premeditated attack”.
NATO and Europe have continued to push against a no-fly zone because it “would post a threat of direct confrontation between Russia and NATO.”
Don't know who all needs to hear this, but a No Fly Zone is not a magical umbrella that prevents planes flying in a given area. It's a decision to shoot at planes that fly in a given area, including with one's own planes. To put in a no fly zone is to go to war.
— Olya Oliker aka Dr. Olga Oliker (she/her) (@OlyaOliker) February 25, 2022
Ukraine also wants access to the site, even though it is in Poland:
Oleksiy Danilov, Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, said Ukraine wanted a joint study of Tuesday’s incident with its partners and to see the information that provided the basis for its allies’ conclusions.
Kyiv is “completely open to a comprehensive study of the situation,” he wrote on the council’s official Facebook page.
Danilov also said Ukraine has evidence of a “Russian trace” in the incident and echoed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in blaming Russia’s “missile terror”. Danilov provided no details of what evidence he was citing.
Then again, it didn’t help that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy jumped to conclusions, demanding action from NATO since Poland is a member.
“NATO needs to act”
“This is a Russian missile strike”
“This is a very serious escalation”
“Put Russia in its place. Terrorists”That’s what @ZelenskyyUa said about the missiles that hit Poland. Now we know that these were Ukrainian missiles. Stop supporting this lunatic.
— Kim Dotcom (@KimDotcom) November 16, 2022
UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT ZELENSKIY SAYS RUSSIAN MISSILES HAVE STRUCK POLAND
ZELENSKIY SAYS RUSSIAN MISSILE STRIKES ON NATO TERRITORY A SIGNIFICANT ESCALATION, ACTION IS NEEDED
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) November 15, 2022
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Comments
Two missiles land on a farm from a neighboring war zone and people scream “Article 5!”?!? Are they insane?
Yes, oh, wait,was that a rhetorical question?
Yes
The quicker and more thoroughly Russian military ambitions are crushed the better for world peace and prosperity. Not to mention the protection of Ukrainian civilians from the atrocities the Russians are committing.
What are you saying here? We should go to war with Russia?
Remember all the humiliating defeats the Germans imposed on Russia? In the beginning of WW2?
Do you remember “lend-lease”? We saved their backsides at the expense of Eastern Europe and saving the USSR. It did not work out well for the world.
No, I don’t really want to go war with Russia. (I will admit that seeing NATO wipe the floor with them would be awesome though.)
What I’m saying is that public cowardice in the face of bullies emboldens them and escalates and expands wars. I am also saying that cowardice on the part of our public officials is at fault. We have failed the world and Eastern Europe in particular regarding Russia by action and inaction running back to at least FDR. The war in Ukraine is only continuing because Biden is too cowardly (or still feels he owes the Russian sources of that 10% to the big guy) to send over the weapons needed to deal with an enemy that size. The Kersch bridge should have been sunk within weeks. The Russian navy should have been sunk already. The airbases those Russian cruise missiles came from should have been destroyed by Ukrainian cruise missiles months ago. Yet Biden still won’t even send ATACMS!
You probe with bayonets: if you find mush, you push. If you find steel, you withdraw.
— Lenin
We need to be steel not mush. If we portray the public opinion of pulling at the leash to crush Russia they will withdraw rather than try to draw out the war until we get tired of it and betray the Ukrainians.
GravityOpera,
Using your logic, every instance where Nation A violates the territorial integrity of Nation B creates a duty on the USA to defend the territorial integrity of Nation B.
That’s a pretty big check you are writing on behalf of the Citizens of our Republic. You are making an unlimited claim on our taxes and seemingly upon the lives of our children to serve in uniform in furtherance of this claim.
We owe no duty to any Nation but our own. If you truly believe so devoutly in the Ukrainian cause they are still accepting volunteers. Assuming of course that you are actually prepared to personally demonstrate the courage of your convictions.
If so, here’s some advice from a combat veteran. Make sure you bring lots of quality socks and at least two pair of good boots. Listen to the old heads on the ground over there. Don’t pick up anything off the ground.
@CommoChief,
You are using your misperception not my logic to make that claim.
The United States created a duty to Ukraine when we signed the Budapest Memorandum. Doing effectively nothing nullifies the value of our nation in both current and future international agreements and treaties and our worth as an ally and trading partner.
Russia and their allies are enemies of ourselves and our allies. Even if there was no duty to Ukraine this is a golden opportunity to “knock them off the chessboard.” This will lessen their ability to commit espionage, to subvert the society and culture, to support China, Syria, Iran, North Korea, and others, and would leave us freer to prepare for war with China.
Please note that none of the above implies “devout belief in the ‘Ukrainian cause’ (whatever you mean by that).”
You say you don’t want to go to war with Russia, then spend three times as many words explaining how we should go to war with Russia.
I don’t know how you be “steel not mush” without military force. Have sanctions stopped Russia? No. And even if the West locked them out more than they have, which is very possible, there are enough bad actors on the planet to help them out.
With an ever-shrinking population, Russia is sliding into irrelevance. No matter how much you pretend they can, they cannot get back what they had as the USSR (and they didn’t get all that through invasion, either. In fact, they wouldn’t have gotten it without Germany’s help.) The only thing Russia has in its favor, as has been throughout history, is that they have numbers. They can pour in troops all they want, but they are poorly trained, poorly led and poorly equipped. Maybe they will push back deeper into Ukraine next year. I’m skeptical how that will go.
Let them bleed themselves to death. I do not understand the eagerness to poke a nuclear powerhouse on its last legs.
GravityOpera,
Yet you ignore the Minsk accords, the deliberate provocative of Russia by Ukraine and the Orange Revolution (coup) stage managed by the US.
You ignore the totalitarianism of the Ukrainian govt which is on full display. Jailed their political opposition, seized broadcast media for their propaganda to run unchallenged. Not to mention a snakes nest of corruption.
I don’t care which eastern European tyrant runs Ukraine. It isn’t worth a dime our tax dollars. It isn’t worth one drop of US blood.
You seem to agree that it isn’t worth your blood either.
Russia is doing a good job of crushing their own ambitions. Their military is horrible.
The whole world sees it too. Especially China which has a good bit of Russian military equipment.
This is a “False Flag” operation. Zelensky’s been trying to get us into a war with Russia since this whole thing began. I think that missile was intentionally fired at Poland in the hopes of doing just that. You’ll notice that Zelensky never questioned the assumption by the media that it came from Russia, even though he’s almost sure to have known it didn’t. This is just like that missile that hit the train station early in the war. It was undoubtedly launched by the Ukrainian Army, but the Russians were blamed for it and no one questioned it. Russian forces, at the time, were not positioned within the missile’s range, but the Ukrainians were.
Well, judging by the map, any missiles from Ukrainian forces would have been pointing in the other direction.
Not so for Mother Russia….
The S-300 is an anti-aircraft missile… launch it and it will follow the plane being targeted in the direction that the plane was flying and whatever direction that plane turns as it takes evasive maneuvers.
Also, one of the advantages the S-300 variants I am familiar with share is that they are all vertically launched, allowing for 360 degree coverage without having to physically traverse and aim the launch tube.
Good to know. I am just a biologist, and can tell a man from a woman. 😉
Do you have to peek?
Duct tape, yes, DNA, no!
Not doing the Crocodile Dundee test!
“From the information that we and our allies have, it was an S-300 rocket made in the Soviet Union, an old rocket and there is no evidence that it was launched by the Russian side,” Polish President Andrzej Duda said. “It is highly probable that it was fired by Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense.”
From what I have seen, all of Russia’s equipment is old and outdated. Sounds like the Polish president is trying to avoid getting dragged into this.
It’s a surface to air missile used for air defense. IOW a defense missile not an offensive missile. The Ukrainian military has these as do most former Warsaw Pact Nations. It was almost certainly fired by the Ukrainian military and not Russia.
The Ukrainian govt immediately leapt into blaming the Russians without any evidence. As they have done for many other episodes including some stage managed photo ops.
The Ukrainian govt which has jailed the opposition political parties and taken over all TV/radio stations to control their narrative has been beating an incessant drum for NATO involvement from day one. They can’t defeat Russia without the continued support of NATO.
Unfortunately our political class here in the US has somehow decided to spend untold hundreds of millions of $ to secure the borders of Ukraine, while leaving ours wide ass open.
Unfortunately our political class here in the US has somehow decided to “spend” untold hundreds of millions of $ to secure the borders of Ukraine, while leaving ours wide ass open.
I think you misspelled “launder”.
You misspelled HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of $
It isn’t hundreds of Billions. As of mid summer it was around $6.5 Billion. More since, but not ‘hundreds of billions’.
The US defense budget in FY22 was $777 billion.
“Millions”..”Billions”…to us it matters… to the US gov and Left…. not so much
The distinction between billions and millions absolutely does matter to the leftists. Try cutting funding for failed great society programs from the current billions down to millions and you will very quickly find out exactly how much. 😋
You’re right… not hundreds of billions, but it is several tens of billions (so far).
“Looking at pledges of military aid to Ukraine between Jan 24 and October 3, the U.S. government has committed to providing the most arms, weapons and other equipment by far. More than $27 billion in military aid was pledged”
https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country
But give them time, they’ll get there. When you’re Joe Biden*, there is so much grifting to do and so little time.
To put this in perspective… how much was it again that Trump wanted for a complete border wall? $4B?
Well yeah they will try and some in the r establishment will vote for it while the leadership won’t impose consequences; looking at you McCarthy. McConnell is a lost cause, he stated that Ukraine was the single most important issue facing the USA.
As to DJT and the wall you are correct that Paul Ryan and McConnell refused funding in Trumps first budget. It’s also correct that DJT had an opportunity to veto that budget but didn’t. He got rolled by Ryan and McConnell. That’s a fact.
Oh he got rolled by more than Ryan and McConnell. He got rolled by the entire DC Swamp. Like an alligator will grab it’s prey and take it to the bottom of the swamp to feed on it… that’s pretty much what happened to Trump.
There have been reports that the Russians have re-purposed some S-300’s for an offensive ground attack role by retrofitting them with GPS guidance. It’s certainly possible, but if there’s any truth to such reports is anyones guess. I agree that the most likely scenario is an errant Ukrainian S-300 SAM.
Just ask Hillary; she works well with the Russians….
The only one still claiming the missiles came from Russia is Zelinsky.
And, his was the loudest voice screaming Article 5! The little turd tried to get us into WWIII.
And he got Biden to immediately give another $37 billion, based on the fake claim about the Russians doing this..
We should stop all aid based on what Zelensky did. He cares nothing for the US and just tried to drag us into a world war which would kill tens of millions.
Wait a day or so, so as to diffuse this hard to prove who did it. Russia doing it deliberately makes no sense for them.
This statement is a lie:
“NATO allies are not part of the conflict in Ukraine,” Stoltenberg said.
USA and many other NATO members are funding the military operations.
Funding is an act of war.
The war would have ended almost immediately without NATO members’ support!
You’re right. To be followed soon after by the next war when Russia senses the time is right. Russia misjudged Kiev’s willingness to defend the city. Russia misjudged a lot of things including their own capabilities.
Ukrainians’ resistance to the coup in Kiev and subsequent illegitimate regimes. Russia’s legal stake, physical position, and willingness to defend, supply Crimea after it was cut of and targeted by the Kiev regime-military-paramilitary axis. To their discredit, they waited eight years to support Ukrainians in Donbas etc. Apparently, audit the vote is tantamount to insurrection justifying civilian assaults, in DC, and Kiev, too.
Russia invaded and occupied it in contravention of their treaties and other international agreements. It’s logically impossible to defend Ukrainian territory against Ukraine. This year’s invasion, plus the years of Russian war in the Donbas, lie in our laziness in 2014. If we had dealt with Putin then (or when he invaded Georgia or when he invaded Moldova or when he invaded Chechnya) this would not have happened.
Who’s we and where can I find this duty you claim that we owe to Ukraine?
If you want to go fight Russians in eastern Europe no one but you is keeping you from it.
An aside: What’s the Over/Under that Bankman-Fried didn’t kill himself?
Since at least two other people looking into or part of this… “suicided”… and Epstein money was part of the start up….. need we question? The amount of (other people’s) money donated to politics…. either it’s a great insurance policy (ask Epstein…er) or isn’t (ask Epstein).
This is too easy. Trump just announced for ’24. It’s all his fault.
Even ex post facto….
Hillary’s “Fog Of War” undoubtedly.
Is that better or worse than the “fog in Epstein’s jail cell?”
> Polish President Andrzej Duda said. “It is highly probable that it was fired by Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense.”
Sounds like it’s time for NATO to attack Ukraine in a show of solidarity under Article 5. Or does that only count when it’s the “bad guys”?
That’s like blaming the cops when a fleeing criminal runs off the road and plows into someone.
Oh wait. That’s a standard leftist tactic here in the US.
The appropriate response is to recognize the threat posed by the criminal and give the police the power to end the pursuit instead of just following the criminal around. Or, in this case, end the Russian invasion so they don’t/can’t launch anymore cruise missiles.
The US isn’t the world police force.
Polish air defense possibly tracked this missile as it entered their airspace. By the track, they were likely able to determine its launch site. I’m betting Poland knows Ukraine launched the missile, and is being diplomatic with their statement.
There’s a lot of errant anti-aircraft fire falling on people in Ukraine. It happens.
On the other hand, Russia is consolidating the front and tripling its troop strength. Things are about to get very bad for Ukraine. Do you trust our government or the media to tell us if it turned out to be a deliberate false flag attack by Ukraine?
Paula says, “Don’t try to Pull the Poles into the Oppugnancy.”
Hopefully at least some of the war boners have gone limp.
This is a good litmus test. If anybody used this to beat the war drums against Russia, then adults should totally ignore that person in the future. They are just a propagandist. If anybody screamed Article 5! but isn’t doing so now, they should be ignored. We simply have to start ignoring these types of insane claims that will ignite WW3.
So many people lobbing Russian Military Rockets all over Europe these days. Really, could be anyone, who did that.
An offramp from conflict to diplomacy would stop them.