Say Good-bye to Bump Stocks
“As I promised, today the Department of Justice will issue the rule banning BUMP STOCKS with a mandated comment period.”
Friday, the Trump administration announced new regulations that ban bump stocks (attachments that alter the firing speed of certain guns) and like devices for firearms.
Attorney General Sessions said the DOJ is proposing amending rules that define machine guns. These changes will effectively ban bump stocks.
Bloomberg reported:
Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Friday formally proposed a ban on bump stocks, the firearms accessory that allows semi-automatic guns to fire more quickly, similar to a fully automatic weapon.
The proposal seeks to fulfill a promise made by President Donald Trump after the Feb. 14 massacre at a Florida high school and comes a day before a protest march in Washington organized by survivors of the Florida shooting.
Previously an obscure gun accessory, bump stocks became infamous after the device was linked to the Las Vegas concert massacre on Oct. 1. The gunman owned multiple such devices, law enforcement authorities said. Fifty-eight people were killed in the attack, the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history.
“After the senseless attack in Las Vegas, this proposed rule is a critical step in our effort to reduce the threat of gun violence that is in keeping with the Constitution and the laws passed by Congress,” Sessions said in a statement.
“I look forward to working with the president’s School Safety Commission to identify other ways to keep our country and our children safe, and I thank the president for his courageous leadership on this issue,” he said.
Sessions’s proposal involves amending Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives regulations that would categorize bump stocks under the federal definition of a machine gun. Trump signed an order on Feb. 20, less than a week after the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, directing the Justice Department to make the change.
A bump stock was used by the Vegas shooter when he murdered 58 people, prompting a re-examination of current regulations.
Trump was pleased with the announcement:
Obama Administration legalized bump stocks. BAD IDEA. As I promised, today the Department of Justice will issue the rule banning BUMP STOCKS with a mandated comment period. We will BAN all devices that turn legal weapons into illegal machine guns.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 23, 2018
Following the Parkland school shooting, Trump asked the DOJ to propose regulations that would help keep bump stocks out of the hands of the public.
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Clinton/Huma/et al classified documents deliberately mishandled…. silence
Clinton bribes: *allegedly* being “investigated”.
Comey/McCabe/et al lying to Congress, leaking classified info, perjury, etc…. silence
Bump Stocks?
OMG DO SOMETHING RIGHT NAOW!!!!!
glad to see DC has their priorities in order.
he’s going to have to run as a dem for his second term.
Maybe somebody should tell Trump that betraying the base will likely end his presidency.
Stupid decisions like this WILL kill base support and turnout. When the base doesn’t show this fall, the Democrats will win Congress and move to impeach. Republicans will throw him out too in order to prevent another blue wave in 2020.
The right move for Trump is to completely dig in and oppose all efforts to remove gun rights. Ideally, Trump could get the liberals to come out proposing mass gun confiscation. Opposing serious calls for gun confiscation would drive up Republican turnout.
You wait and see:
The strategy for his re-election will be the same tactic the GOPe has used for decades: “vote for us or an even worse Democrat will be elected!”
And they’ll be correct. The Democrat will be worse, but the base will be so demoralized by betrayals that they may not show up anyway.
This is how monopolies are run.
This opens Pandora’s Box to call anything a “machine gun”. This places a lot of people into the NFA Class III level and is NUTS! A simple ban to produce more would do, but this places a whole bunch of people in jeopardy for felonies… which is exactly what Progressives want.
Next step? Declare semiautomatic rifles and pistols as Class III? The Dems in 1934 wanted to make all handguns Class III.
Coming on the heels of (what MarK Steyn called) “the 2,232-page Schumer-Pelosi Early-Christmas-For-Big-Bloated-Budget-Busting-Bureaucracy Bill”, the Dems should be more than overjoyed.
Reminds me of the “had to violate the Constitution to save the Constitution” excuse by former Presidents.
Bump firing firearms is a technique that is facilitated by using a “bump stock”. You can also bump fire an AR by using the belt loop in your pants. When is the hearing for Denim jeans, perhaps banning belts, suspenders could be a viable alternative. After all, it’s for the CHILDREN!
If a semiautomatic with a bump stock is by definition a machine gun, then by that fallacious logic bump firing a semiautomatic (without a bump stock) would be an illegal conversion into a machine gun.
Thus the slippery slope.
Sessions reminds one of George H.W. Bush, whose mediocrity gave us Bill Clinton. If you remember, Bush had zero vision for the country and he would “take care of things as they came up.”
Where is Sessions on the massive corruption in this nation’s government? Asleep at the switch – or hiding.
Well, he’s part of it, so no surprise.
How McConnell and Chao used political power to make their family rich:
https://nypost.com/2018/03/17/how-mcconnell-and-chao-used-political-power-to-make-their-family-rich/
Sessions’ days are numbered, hopefully.
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
Obama Administration legalized bump stocks. BAD IDEA. As I promised, today the Department of Justice will issue the rule banning BUMP STOCKS with a mandated comment period. We will BAN all devices that turn legal weapons into illegal machine guns.
3:50 PM – Mar 23, 2018
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Rages, he did NOT legalize them, he just didn’t make them illegal.
You’re arguing with Duh Donald, not me.
You used to be much smarter than this…
While it would not be difficult for the DOJ to essentially ban the sale of bump stocks or even their installation on a firearm, without really affecting the status of such categories of weapons as semi-auto firearms; it really will not have much of an effect on shootings, mass or otherwise. This is probably why there is such a big hurry to accomplish this useless action.
I think you’re right. Also, it’s hard for me to get excited about something I never even knew existed before the Las Vegas shooting, and which I think only an idiot would use to shoot with. I kind of understand about the slippery slope, but it’s a shame to have to fight in favor of something stupid just because of the slippery slope argument.
Will they ban shoe laces too?
Attention Hogg runs for congress in 3…2…1…
You have to be 25 to run for the House and 30 for the Senate. But that kid isn’t really a student, just an actor. He’s probably 23 already.
That is an outright lie. Why do people insist on lying, when there’s nothing wrong with telling the truth?
I’ve never fired a rifle with a bump stock but I believe the reports that say they make it impossible to aim at a target. Particular the ones several hundred yards away as in the LV shooting. So it appears AG Mr. Magoo is doing his usual – nothing of value.
Too bad he didn’t just recuse himself. Again.
I have, once. A friend brought one out to the range and I tried it. After everyone in our group shot it, we all agreed (including the owner) that it was a waste of ammo, it could be dangerous in the hands of an untrained person and it really had no practical application. So no, I’m not particularly sorry to see them go away but classifying them as a machine gun is not something that is within their ability to do under current law. Machine gun has a legal definition and a bump stock doesn’t meet it. If they want that changed, it will have to be done by congress.
Saddog, thanks for the information.
I have as well, and I can tell you that if someone was shooting at me, I’d much prefer that he/she was using a bumpstock rather than a scope.
A decent fellow with control can rattle off by count any number of rounds from bump stock. Call out “two”, he can do a double tap. Go “single”, get one round…three, four, five – just call it. A bump stock is no different than a decent trigger finger. A little practice, you will be amazed. The results from speed without discipline are the same.
A few of points about Las Vegas….how many died due to gun shot vs trampled? Likewise, the same for injured or trying to flee? How many were killed by a bullet that wounded someone else when it passed through? A lot of questions to be answered. (The questions do not eliminate the root cause)
I’ve had similar questions about LV. In addition to the above, try these: Were fatal or wounding bullets collected and verified as having come from weapons found in the shooter’s (presumed shooter) room? Were there any that did not match with those weapons? How many rounds were actually fired from that room (count of the expended brass)?
Also agree on the utility (or lack thereof) of the bump stock. A little practice by a decent shooter can roll off shots as fast, and with much more accuracy.
The information blackout on the LV shooting says that there is much more to this this thing.
Ban bump stocks? Whoopee! So, Trump quite handily deals with a bump in the road while letting a volcanic spending bill flow right on by. Again, whoopee!
Throw red meat to the red guard a day before their little march. Kind of a pre-march win to get the juices flowing. What a day. At least it gives Punxsutawney Sessions something to do.
I bumped into Milhouse on another thread earlier today, and he assured me that Citi stock was completely fine.
No, I didn’t, and what the **** has it got to do with this?
For those who perceive Trump as a chess player, was the means to achieve this end intentional to allow a successful legal challenge? Feinstein seems to think so: https://mobile.twitter.com/SenFeinstein/status/977306380490199045
I could see a court fight over the DOJ’s lack of regulatory authority to change its interpretation without any change in the law.
Or hold pat and let the left start the suit. Here we have Constitutional supporters having to spend their money to undo a stupid order.. why not have the left spend their money?
This is so stupid. I’m a former infantry Marine who has shot everything from the SAW to the 25mm automatic chain cannon on my LAV-25.
Had no idea what bump stocks were until the Vegas shooting. Once I read up on them I realized they were meaningless.
Was the shooter wearing a red tie? Because if he was then banning the sale of red ties will do more to stop mass shootings then banning bump stocks ever will.
Unbelievable.
Arm the teachers. Every school has a handful of responsible teachers that will volunteer to carry a concealed weapon. It’s simple it’s almost free most your concealed carry instructors will give free classes to teachers. It already works in Utah.
Also, if you want to learn how schools can never again allow their students to get shot up, visit Sidwell Friends, it’s where the establishment in DC sends their brats and nothing is too good for the kids that really matter.
There’s nothing “automatic” about a chain gun, Killer.
They are called that because they rely SOLELY on a drive via a chain for their function. They do not “cycle” in any normal senses of an automatic weapon. Without a drive motor, they just sit there looking stupid.
Hmmmm…
“There’s nothing “automatic” about a chain gun, Killer”
Rags, I’m not sure what your point is. The M242, for the purposes of the discussion (which is bump fire stocks and automatic weapons), meets the definition in the NFA of ‘machinegun’.
Because the ATF doesn’t give two fucks HOW it functions automatically, only that it DOES function automatically.
Without getting too deep in the woods here, I believe you’ll find that a motorized Gatling gun is NOT an “automatic weapon” either under the law or any correct view of how it actually functions.
Guns from Metal Storm would be another example.
A motorized Gatling gun is not the same thing as a 25mm chain gun. Facts are friends.
Nobody suggested they were the “same”, poor, stupid thing.
They are similar, and for the reasons given. A chain-gun is NOT an “automatic” weapon.
Oh, and gas operation is not what made the Thompson CORRECTLY an automatic weapon.
Actually the legal definition of an “automatic weapon” is any weapon which loads another round mechanically, after the first round, in the chamber, is fired. In the case of multi-barrel, chain-driven firearms, a round is mechanically chambered after the round in that particular chamber is discharged. If it did not do this, you could only fire the number of rounds for which the weapon has chambers and then you would have to manually reload the weapon. like a revolver. So modern chain guns, as well as the original Gatling Gun, are all “automatic weapons. In fact, a semi-automatic weapon, one which will fire only one round per trigger pull, is also an automatic weapon.
No, you are stupidly WRONG. AGAIN.
In several states, it IS legal to own a mini-gun. Look it up.
Oh, and Mac, using your definition a pump-action, lever-action, and bolt action are ALSO “automatic”.
Of course, they are NOT, any more than a Gatling gun or chain-gun is automatic. All of them require a mechanical input to make the cycle work. An automatic action is either gas operated or recoil operated, and nothing outside the weapon is required after the previous round is fired.
Sorry, but it is not legal to own a motor or chain driven, self-loading firearm, which can fire more than one round per squeeze of the trigger, unless you pay for the transfer stamp from the ATF. A hand-cranked Gatling Gun would not be classified as a “machinegun” unless it is controlled by a trigger.
What is meant by “mechanically loaded” is that mechanical parts within the firearm will extract the spent cartridge and inert another “automatically”. Whether the weapon uses gas or recoil and springs or if the mechanism is driven by another mechanical device, such a motor, is irrelevant, as long as the power to accomplish this is not a product of human musculature.
There are several good books out there which explain this. Read a book.
A chain gun is an automatic weapon. Because it uses a motor drive to cycle the weapon rather than the gas from the shell doesn’t change the fact that it is “automatic”. Please read more.
The US Army classifies the M242 as a machine gun. It has semi auto, burst and full auto modes.
Actually, it has single shot, multiple shot burst, and full rock ‘n roll.
Visited Sidwell Friends a while ago and was met at the entrance by a nice gentleman with a Glock on his hip
What’s next, is Sessions gonna regulate how fast you can wiggle your fore finger?
It’s so funny watching T-rump suckers twist into pretzels to blame everyone but their cult leader.
Goodbye sessions, ncconnell, ryan…
One day.
“It’s so funny watching T-rump suckers twist into pretzels to blame everyone but their cult leader.”
Oooooooh, that’s well crafted. How many drafts of your post did you go through last night before posting it? (*Seinfeld eye roll*)
Rags: blah blah chain cannon not automatic blah
Lol. Are you seriously trying to lecture me on my TO weapon for 12 years. 25 mm automatic chain cannon is the official designation of the weapon. Hit Google and try to find out why.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M242_Bushmaster#Description
Unlike most automatic firearms, the M242 does not depend on…
…and, dispite the Wiki author’s misuse of the term “automatic”, there’s NOTHING “automatic” about the gun. Without the drive motor, it’s useless. Like you.
Hey fucking douchebag, the chain gun was to show Fen’s creds for the point he proposed. Why you missed that is beyond me … oh wait, drunks miss details, seems that’s why they make bad drivers.
Here’s a tip for you Rags you fucktard … Specs is having a big sale on Vodka. I know you buy by the case so why don’t you pick some up for cheap.
Well, this makes the second time you’ve done this, and I ignored the first. I won’t here.
Some points…
1. I know EXACTLY what “Fen” was attempting. I was stripping him of the pretext;
a. he was burnishing his “creds” with a false claim
b. he claims to have been a Marine in the combat arms; I doubt it
c. assuming arguendo that he WAS what he claims, he’s also a nutter coward who publishes here his fantasies about doing violence to the children of people he dislikes
d. the coward who shot Chris Kyle was a “combat Marine” IIRC
2. I’m just a humble ground-bounder; I’ll submit my DD-214 to the Prof for verification
3. You’re a cowardly, lying sack of shit who would NEVER have the guts to say to me in person what you’ve lyingly implied here; you just are an internet punk
a. before I posted this evening, I had put in a ten hour day of work
b. you are FAR more “foul-mouthed” than I have ever been here
3. I DO buy booze by the case, because I CAN, and it suits my Scots nature. I also buy lots of cigars.
4. I have not submitted your post to the Prof for his action; next time I certainly WILL.
Oh no! Now I will have to actually aim at my target.
Is no one concerned that this is an ES POST FACTO law, Confiscation of a previously LEGAL ITEM FOR NO COMPENSATION (a taking) and re-writing a law with a REGULATION? And that’s just off the top of my head. Will this also allow for warrantless searches, confiscation of mailing lists or credit card receipts to see who bought what and god knows what else.
It is not an ex post facto law, because it doesn’t make past possession a crime. So long as you don’t continue to possess one you’re fine.
It’s not a taking, so it doesn’t require compensation.
If the new regulation is consistent with the statute, then why should we object?
No, it will not allow any of those things; why would you even think that?
It is EXACTLY an ex post facto law. From https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/ex+post+facto The Constitution of the United States, art. 1, sec. 10, forbids the states to pass any ex post facto law; which has been defined to be one which renders the act punishable in a manner in which it was not punishable when it was committed. 6 Cranch, 138. This definition extends to laws passed after the act, and affecting a person by way of punishment of that act, either in his person or estate. 3 Dall. 386; 1 Blackf. Ind. R. 193 2 Pet. U. S. Rep. 413 1 Kent, Com. 408; Dane’s Ab. Index, h.t.
Since you don’t know what you are talking about, the “regulation” that would supercede the LAW makes possession of a bump stock a TEN YEAR/ $10.000 fine the DAY IT GOES INTO EFFECT. You can’t “register” it, you have to destroy it or send it to ATF WITHOUT COMPENSATION for what was a LEGAL PURCHASE and THAT is a “taking”.
Really, let’s be done with it and ban fingers. No more gun issues.
Just in time to make the bump stock ban look completely asinine, I just saw the trailer for Sicario 2. In the trailer, Benicio Del Toro bump fires a semi automatic pistol using just his finger. I hope the ATF doesn’t see it or they’ll probably decide using two hands to fire a weapon makes it a machine gun.
Rags: “despite the Wiki author’s misuse of the term “automatic”, there’s NOTHING “automatic” about the gun…”
That quote you are so casually dismissing is from the company that currently manufacturers the M242. Very sloppy of you to not even check the footnotes.
So not only is a Marine who used the M242 for 12 years as an LAV-25 gunner telling you how wrong you are, so are the people who make the M242.
And now you are like one of those idiot gun grabbers who doesn’t know the difference between semi and automatic. How about you explain for everyone what you think automatic means?
While we wait… do you know how to get that 25mm Automatic Chain Cannon to fire 200 rounds w minute? You hold the trigger down for a minute. Although we never used it like that way, not efficient.
We’re taught to fire 3 round bursts. Guess how? Hold the trigger down until 3 rounds are fired and then release it. If you try to fire it semi like you imply – 1 trigger pull per shot – you wind up with feed jams that are a pain to clear, often requiring yanking the feed chutes or even pulling the upper assembly off the weapon, and then uploading the belt of 25mm ammo all over again.
Still looking up the definition of automatic, Rags? Lol.
“While we wait… do you know how to get that 25mm Automatic Chain Cannon to fire 200 rounds w minute? You hold the trigger down for a minute.”
You mean the SWITCH. There is no mechanical “trigger” on a chain-gun. They are motor-driven. Ergo, NOT “automatic” (see above).
This is why they are mounted as they are on Apache gun-ships.
What the hell has happened to you Rags. I don’t expect gun enthusiasts to be familiar with the M242 Bushmaster and so I’m not going to mock them for getting their facts wrong. Why can’t you just admit you were wrong?
Instead, you are so hot to land a cheap shot to avenge some long forgotten insult that you wind up turning a non-relevant point into a Statement on your lack of intellectual integrity.
I don’t see what you lose by admitting your mistake. Although I would love for you to call up Aberdeen Proving Grounds and RagsSplain to the testers and instructors that the “Bushmaster 25mm Automatic Chain Cannon” is not automatic. They need a good laugh.
But no one here is going to grief you admitting you are wrong. Because despite what you think of us, we are human and we are concerned about your deteriorating mental health.
When is the last time you saw a doctor? You should go in and get checked out. Because slot of us here who have read you for years are wondering what the hell is wrong with the Rags we used to know. We are expecting that call from police explaining they found Grandpa Rags pulled off the highway in the next state and he doesn’t remember his name or address.
This is (really weak-assed) concern trolling.
From a lying moron who doesn’t know his ass from a chain-gun…breach.
And Rags, anytime you want, we will go over to ThisAintHell (they do they Stolen Valor reports) and dispense with your dishonorable accusations.
You put up $500 and when he confirms he has it, I’ll fax him my DD214. I don’t need to prove anything to a pos like you, but they could use the money for their charities.