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NY State Judge Finds Trump Organizations Repeatedly Provided Fraudulent Valuations To Lenders and Insurers

NY State Judge Finds Trump Organizations Repeatedly Provided Fraudulent Valuations To Lenders and Insurers

Orders “certificates” enabling numerous Trump entities to operate in NY State cancelled – not clear what this means in terms of survival of Trump organization as a whole.

In a civil lawsuit brought by NY Attorney General Letitia James, a state court judge has found that various Trump entities engaged in repeated fraud as to business and property valuations in order to obtain loans. A copy of the full Order is at the bottom of this post.

The court found that a trial was not needed on that issue, as the contemporaneous documents showed that for numerous properties Trump obtained his own valuations that varied dramatically from what he represented to the banks. Under the NY law at issue, intent do defraud was not necessary, only that false statements and representations were made. The court rejected Trump’s defense that the independent valuations he obtained were irrelevant, since Trump purchasing a property made it more valuable. The court also rejected the notion that never missing a payment to a lender or failing to pay off a loan vindicated the valuations, finding that the fraud took place when the valuations were given, and what happened afterwards with regard to payment was legally irrelevant.

The court rejected Trump’s numerous legal defenses, finding many of them frivolous and abusive since the defenses already were rejected by an appeals court, yet repeated like “Groundhog Day” in the trial court again. The court sanctioned Trump’s lawyers for that conduct.

Here are some key excerpts from the Order:

This action arises out of a years-long investigation that plaintiff, the Office of the Attorney General of the State of New York (“OAG”), conducted into certain business practices that defendants engaged in from 2011 through 2021. OAG alleges that the individual and entity defendants committed repeated and persistent fraud by preparing, certifying, and submitting to lenders and insurers false and misleading financial statements, thus violating New York Executive Law § 63(12)….

On November 3, 2022, this Court found preliminarily that defendants had a propensity to engage in persistent fraud by submitting false and misleading Statements of Financial Condition (“SFCs”) on behalf of defendant Donald J. Trump (“Donald Trump”). NYSCEF Doc. No. 183. Accordingly, the Court granted a preliminary injunction against any further fraud and appointed
the Hon. Barbara S. Jones (ret.) as an independent monitor to oversee defendants’ financial statements and significant asset transfers. NYSCEF Doc. Nos. 193 and 194….

OAG now moves for partial summary judgment on its first cause of action, for fraud under Executive Law§ 63(12). NYSCEF Doc. No. 765. Separately, plaintiff now moves, pursuant to 22 NYCRR 130-1.1 , to sanction defendants for frivolous motion practice. NYSCEF Doc. No. 1263. Defendants also move for summary judgment, seeking to dismiss the complaint in its entirety. NYSCEF Doc. No. 834.


Defendants’ arguments that OAG has neither capacity nor standing to sue under Executive Law § 63( 12), and that the disclaimers of non-party accountants Mazars insulate defendants, invoke the time-loop in the film “Groundhog Day.” This Court emphatically rejected these arguments in its preliminary injunction decision and in its dismissal decision, and the First Department affirmed both. Defendants’ contention that a different procedural posture mandates a reconsideration, or a fortiori, a reversal, is pure sophistry1….

In response to both OAG’s request for a preliminary injunction and to defendants’ motions to dismiss, this Court rejected every one of the aforementioned arguments. In rejecting such arguments for the second time, this Court cautioned that “sophisticated counsel should have known better.” 5 NYSCEF Doc. No. 453 at 5. However, the Court declined to impose sanctions, believing it had “made its point.” Id.

Apparently, the point was not received.

One would not know from reading defendants’ papers that this Court has already twice ruled against these arguments, called them frivolous, and twice been affirmed by the First Department…..

This Court emphatically rejected these arguments, as did the First Department. Defendants’ repetition of them here is indefensible.


As OAG’s first cause of action, the only one upon which it moves for summary judgment, alleges a standalone violation of Executive Law § 63(12), OAG need only prove: (1) the SFCs were false and misleading; and (2) the defendants repeatedly or persistently used the SFCs to transact business.

This instant action is essentially a “documents case.” As detailed infra, the documents here clearly contain fraudulent valuations that defendants used in business, satisfying OAG’s burden to establish liability as a matter of law against defendants. Defendants’ respond that: the documents do not say what they say; that there is no such thing as “objective” value; and that, essentially, the Court should not believe its own eyes.9

The defenses Donald Trump attempts to articulate in his sworn deposition are wholly without basis in law or fact. He claims that if the values of the property have gone up in the years since the SFCs were submitted, then the numbers were not inflated at that time (i .e.; “But you take the 2014 statement, if something is much more valuable now – or, I guess, we’ll have to pick a date which was a little short of now. But if something is much more valuable now, then the number that I have down here is a low number”). NYSCEF Doc. No. 1363 at 69-75). He also seems to imply that the numbers cannot be inflated because he could find a “buyer from Saudi Arabia” to pay any price he suggests. 10 Id. at 30-33, 60-62, 79-80.


40 Wall Street

The Trump Organization, through defendant 40 Wall Street LLC, owns a ground lease at 40 Wall Street and pays ground rent to the landowner.

In 2010, Cushman & Wakefield appraised the Trump Organization’s interest in 40 Wall Street at $200 million. NYSCEF Doc. Nos. 878-79. Cushman & Wakefield appraised again in 2011 and 2012, reaching valuations of between $200 and $220 million. NYSCEF Doc. Nos. 881-82. The Trump Organization possessed and was familiar with these appraisals. NYSCEF Doc. Nos. 817 at 135-138; 883.

Despite these appraisals, the 2011 and 2012 SFCs valued the Trump Organization’s interest in the property at $524. 7 million and $527 .2 million, respectively, an overvaluation of more than $300 million each year.17 NYSCEF Doc. Nos. 769, 770.

In 2015, Cushman & Wakefield once again appraised the property, and valued it at $540 million. 18 NYSCEF Doc. No. 887. Notwithstanding this appraised value, the 2015 SFC listed the value of 40 Wall Street at $735.4 million. 19 NYSCEF Doc. No. 773.


Having prevailed on liability on a standalone Executive Law § 63(12) cause of action, the Attorney General is entitled to the first two prayers for relief sought in her complaint: (1)  canceling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of New York General Business Law § 130 for all the entity defendants found liable, as well as any other entity controlled or beneficially owned by the individual defendants found liable herein, which and who participated in or benefitted from the foregoing fraudulent schemes; and (2) appointing an independent monitor to oversee compliance, financial reporting, valuations, and disclosures to lenders, insurers, and tax authorities at the Trump Organization. NYSCEF Doc. No. 1 at 213.

What is unclear is what this means for the numerous entities that make up what we popularly refer to as “the Trump organization.” I haven’t been able to sort if out myself, and have seen mostly the type of gloating and hyperbole we saw during the Russia collusion investigation about the end being near. The NY Times seems to have a fairly reasoned explanation:

While the trial will determine the size of the penalty, Justice Engoron’s ruling granted one of the biggest punishments Ms. James sought: the cancellation of business certificates that allow some of Mr. Trump’s New York properties to operate, a move that could have major repercussions for the Trump family business.

The decision will not dissolve Mr. Trump’s entire company, but it sought to terminate his control over a flagship commercial property at 40 Wall Street in Lower Manhattan and a family estate in Westchester County. Mr. Trump might also lose control over his other New York properties, including Trump Tower in Midtown Manhattan, though that will likely be fought over in coming months.

Justice Engoron’s decision narrows the issues that will be heard at trial, deciding that the core of Ms. James’s case was valid.

If I find better analysis of what this all means, I’ll add it.



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It only pays to be a loyal Democrat… but leave the grifting to only selected members of the Politburo and Central Committee.

Full_American_Immigrant | September 26, 2023 at 7:07 pm

“repeated fraud as to business and property valuations in order to obtain loans”

What damages? Because Trump repaid all the loans, there was no fraud.

    Trump got an independent valuation, gave it to the banks for a loan. Banks loaned him the money and he paid it back on time. No one complained then enter a witch vowing to find something to prosecute Trump for and like a good Communist found a supposed crime which the state went along with. During the housing foolishness pushed by Dems where you get get a no income statement loan, ARM, loan for a house and a loan for the down payment on the house, appraisals for whatever value you wanted then people defaulted in droves I wonder how many people the State of NY went after?

      MattMusson in reply to diver64. | September 27, 2023 at 6:52 am

      I have worked in banks for 20 years. BOA, Wells Fargo, US Bank in Credit Risk Reporting.
      All loan applicants are assumed to be overvaluing their collateral. Always. Because – they all do.

        sestamibi in reply to MattMusson. | September 27, 2023 at 10:53 pm

        OK, so what’s your point? Your lowly correspondent here had a deal for a single-family house fall through back in 2016 for the same reason. I offered a price not supported by the appraisal for the mortgage lender. I would have had to put up substantially more cash down, which I didn’t have. Repeat this process thousands of times a year–especially in hot markets like here in Florida.

        It’s up to the lenders to do due diligence, and nothing in this case indicates that any of them involved did not. The State of NY has no business interfering in a case that doesn’t involve it. The reason for all this persecution of Donald Trump is simply that he had the temerity to beat the sainted Hillary for the White House.

    It doesn’t matter. His name is Trump, and the left will do whatever it takes to bring him down….

      I agree.
      Trump will be convicted in any trial held in New York or D.C.
      The charges and evidence are irrelevant.
      Hell, in this case they didn’t even seat a jury.
      He is guilty.
      Bang the gavel.

The value of a business to a tax collector is the value of the land and buildings. The value of a business to banks is that plus its value as an ongoing business, briefly the total of all the profits it will ever make discounted to present value. That value is usually hugely bigger.

    robertthomason in reply to rhhardin. | September 27, 2023 at 10:13 am

    And, as you know, using a discounted cash flow approach to valuation is based on a lot of assumptions such as the discount rate which has a big impact on value.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair | September 26, 2023 at 7:11 pm

Defendants’ arguments that OAG has neither capacity nor standing to sue under Executive Law § 63( 12), and that the disclaimers of non-party accountants Mazars insulate defendants, invoke the time-loop in the film “Groundhog Day.”

Is that what passes for legal reasoning, these days?

Was the judge wearing long shorts and a hoodie?

That is pathetic.

    Every day is the same until you fall in love, is the message of Groundhog Day.

    It helps if you include the rest of the quote:
    This Court emphatically rejected these arguments in its preliminary injunction decision and in its dismissal decision, and the First Department affirmed both. Defendants’ contention that a different procedural posture mandates a reconsideration, or a fortiori, a reversal, is pure sophistry1….

      ThePrimordialOrderedPair in reply to GravityOpera. | September 27, 2023 at 6:17 pm

      It doesn’t help. Citing a comedic movie (incorrectly, I might add) as part of a legal opinion is ridiculous. This judge is so stupid that he couldn’t think to frame his idea explicitly – in plain English?

      There was no reason to mention “Groundhog Day” other than for some asinine pop-reference to make his opinion seem more “hep”.

      Of course, all of the so-called reasoning in this opinion is laughable, as is the case, itself.

        You’re making a mountain out of a molehill. That is not a legal citation, just a pithy comment on the tediousness of hearing the same rejected arguments again.

        Even so, is it incorrect? For many loops Murray was a criminal, destructive asshole without remorse.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair | September 26, 2023 at 7:14 pm

Lenders are responsible for doing their own due diligence. The idea that an owner can just make up a number and a lender accepts it at face value is laughable.

Basically, this court is declaring all negotiations to be illegal, since there is only one fair price and any discussions of prices other than the one true fair price are fraud.

This is crazy.

    Absolutely correct. An example of fraud would be to claim an interest in a property you did not own. As for valuation, that is in the eye of the beholder. A property owner can value his property at whatever he wishes. It is not the obligation of property owner to do the bank’s due diligence for them. If 10 different independent assessments had been made, 10 different valuations would have been arrived at.

    There is a celebrity of sorts that used to work at a bank, approving business loans. He said that they never, well here:

    It was once my job to approve business loans for a bank. We believed nothing applicants told us, relying only on documents such as tax returns and third-party assessments.

    Nearly all applicants “exaggerate” their ability to repay a loan. None were indicted.

    Scott Adams

Can”t they just get a certificate from another State? This is really nothing more than harassment. If the other party to the contract has no complaint what is the State’s interest here in involving itself?

    I don’t think that would be allowed. You need to have permission to operate a company from each state where your company has business operations.

      swedishchef in reply to dawgfan. | September 26, 2023 at 7:50 pm

      So what happens to the assets? Their effectively confiscated? That’s ridiculous and punitive.

        Insane. Corrupt prosecutors, corrupt judges, and a corrupt chief executive. Pretty much peak banana republic police state.

        Lucifer Morningstar in reply to swedishchef. | September 26, 2023 at 11:47 pm

        The assets listed in the decision go into receivership and the receiver will oversee the dissolution of the companies and then presumably the assets of the dissolved companies will be sold off piecemeal to the highest bidder(s).

        So yes, they are dissolved and confiscated (in that order) as the “certificates” that allowed them to operate in New York have been canceled so they can no longer legally operate.

        “Ridiculous and punitive” is putting it mildly.

      JohnSmith100 in reply to dawgfan. | September 26, 2023 at 11:29 pm

      I bet that there are many states who would be happy to than Trump’s businesses away from NY.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair | September 26, 2023 at 7:19 pm

BTW, Bill Murray learned and advanced with each successive day in “Groundhog Day”. Each day he went further and he finally did get Andie McDowell into bed.

    But fully clothed and she “bought” him at the (gasp|) slave auction …. remember in one cycle he assaulted her. It’s a great flick with plenty to think about. Murray’s character chose eventually to become a better person…. a much better person which was the key to freeing him. He chose… wisely…… (great paly on the movie with the Jeep commercial)/

    Wise leadership is missing in the US … hence the Doom Loop.

      CommoChief in reply to alaskabob. | September 26, 2023 at 8:04 pm

      And importantly he was only released from his purgatory to resume his normal life when he chose to become a better person.

    I think if the verdict is upheld, Trump would have to sell all of his interests in NY State and wind down his corporations there.

      MarkS in reply to dawgfan. | September 27, 2023 at 7:24 am

      to the detriment of NY state and city,…how much does Trump pay them directly in taxes and indirectly by the salaries of his employees that NY gets a piece of?

        Fat_Freddys_Cat in reply to MarkS. | September 27, 2023 at 8:11 am

        When the “Too Much Freedom” party does something like this that craters their tax revenues they always have the nerve to act shocked.

          henrybowman in reply to Fat_Freddys_Cat. | September 27, 2023 at 2:40 pm

          No problem. They’ll solve it like Chicago. Open their own “government-run” resort hotels. When paying customers don’t flock to eat government cheese and sleep on penitentiary cots, they’ll repurpose them to house illegals.

      Isn’t that part of their plan?

      I bet he already started the process, you would have thought of the Amazon debacle

    Having been a life insurance agent for 25 years, I really enjoyed the part with the insurance guy.

Since when is a person permitted to value their own property and holdings for the purpose of determining taxable value? Isn’t that what the tax assessor and property appraiser are for?

And just who was harmed if these evaluations were above market value?

I realize I may be displaying my ignorance here. But I am puzzled.

    smooth in reply to JRaeL. | September 26, 2023 at 8:43 pm

    You are correct. The ruling is wack. Almost certainly politically motivated.

    artichoke in reply to JRaeL. | September 26, 2023 at 10:57 pm

    It’s one of those things that probably happens a lot, but in this case the judge decided to punish Trump and his co-defendants. Ruling after ruling went against him. This stuff happened long ago. Isn’t there a statute of limitations?

      henrybowman in reply to artichoke. | September 27, 2023 at 2:41 pm

      New York already proved (against Trump, in fact) that statutes of limitations are no longer a bar to them.

      Azathoth in reply to artichoke. | September 28, 2023 at 1:22 pm

      It’s one of those things that happens alot because it’s the normal procedure.

      Trump didn’t overvalue his assets. No one did.

      The ridiculous number the ‘judge’ used was the tax assessment number.

      NOT and appraised value..

      Mar-a-Lago tends to get undervalued because there are stipulations to owning the property. You can’t sell it off in pieces, you have to maintain the clubs and grounds as they are.

      So even in appraisal, it gets undervalued.

      The land alone is worth in excess of a billion. The house and grounds generate 25 million a year.

      Nothing was ‘fraudulently overvalued’

    henrybowman in reply to JRaeL. | September 27, 2023 at 12:50 am

    I don’t think his estimates were for taxable value, they were for the purpose of obtaining commercial loans.

    This is a process during which all the lenders I have ever dealt with would demand an independent appraisal, not just accept some cockamamie number I pulled out of my head. Trump’s lender didn’t? Then that’s between them and their shareholders, not the state of NY.

      robertthomason in reply to henrybowman. | September 27, 2023 at 10:21 am

      After the S&L problem federal regulators required lenders to have an independent appraisal for every loan.

      Thanks for the clarification.

      Aarradin in reply to henrybowman. | September 27, 2023 at 9:49 pm

      My understanding is that this all happened as usual. Then, to “justify” this case, the prosecutor found some other appraiser that came up with ridiculously low-ball figures.

      So, two different “independent” appraisers come up with vastly different estimates. The one the prosecutor chooses to believe is absolutely right, and the one Trump and the banks he was applying for loans from mutually agreed to trust is wrong and its a felony to have used his number.

      Bonus: The Judge in this case ruled, in his summary judgement, that the 20 acre Mar a Lago was worth only $18 – $27 million during this period of time, and meanwhile State Tax Assessors had properties in the very same neighborhood that are well less than an acre in size valued at $40 million.

    diver64 in reply to JRaeL. | September 27, 2023 at 4:39 am

    you are right to be puzzled. property valuations by different people can be wildly different as anyone who has bought a house or commercial property knows. Hiring a personal appraisal for your house to set its value when putting it up for sale is an entire industry. The value that person places on it using surrounding sales of comparable properties is almost always higher than the tax appraisal by the town. On a commercial property for, say, Trump Tower it becomes quite a bit harder as there are few sales and appraisals. If the bank is happy and loans the money which is paid back then all is well.

      MarkS in reply to diver64. | September 27, 2023 at 7:30 am

      so,…if my house is appraised at $100k and I put it on the market for $200k, have I committed fraud?

        diver64 in reply to MarkS. | September 27, 2023 at 1:03 pm

        Are you in NY? I wonder if that numbnuts AG realizes what she just told the entire commercial property market in NY. Buy and sell, take a loan and pay it back, do whatever you want. If we decide we don’t like you sometime in the future we are going to take your property and charge you with a crime.

          CincyJan in reply to diver64. | September 27, 2023 at 5:27 pm

          That’s what it reads like to me. Small companies might be trapped in the state, but I believe corporations have to be watching this very closely. Who knows when they might get in trouble with the environmentalists or when the property their business sits on might be coveted by the state. They would be fools not to realize they are in danger, however unlilkely that danger might seem in 2023. By 2033, that danger might be quite a bit closer.

        JRaeL in reply to MarkS. | September 27, 2023 at 7:10 pm

        It depends, what political office are you running for?

        Azathoth in reply to MarkS. | September 28, 2023 at 12:43 pm

        Not ‘appraised’.


        The judge used the tax assessment number. Not the appraised value.

        And no, you haven’t.

        However, if you needed cash and wanted to use your house as collateral you could ask a lender to appraise it to see how much they’d be willing to lend you based on it’s value.

        Because that’s how this process actually works.

        You don’t go to a lender, say ‘my assets are worth X, give me $Y’ and get the loan.

        You go, say what you need and then THEY formulate the value. Not you.

        You CAN’T ‘overvalue’ your stuff that way.

Can we have a show of hands of each person that puts any stock in the factual findings and legal conclusions of Judge Engoron? C’mon people, . . . a little higher please, . . . up,. . . so I can see them!!

Big real estate asset holding companies routinely do this sort of over valuation. Maybe not so brazenly as a $300 million increase on a property literally just appraised at $200 to $220 million but still it is common place. It’s really the commercial real estate version of liar loans and as long as the company generates the cash flow to make the loan payments (Trump did by all accounts) it’s usually not a big deal. It’s literally an ‘everybody’s doing it’ situation.

Given the catering in occupancy in commercial real estate and the declining values of downtown real estate in many cities, including NYC, which haven’t yet had a reappraisal to properly reflect their actual value along with the common practice of over valuation for loan purposes the prosecution is about to be very busy. Assuming they wish to show they are evenhanded and this case v Trump was not a politically motivated crusade. Unfortunately this is also another thing Trump did to expose himself to overzealous, partisan prosecutors.

    zillow24 in reply to CommoChief. | September 26, 2023 at 9:00 pm

    Since commercial real estate is tanking in coming months, a bonanza of lawsuits should be brought against lenders who pretend 2021 values on the books are current.

      CommoChief in reply to zillow24. | September 27, 2023 at 8:45 am

      Indeed. With potentially disastrous consequences for lenders book value of their loans. Not to mention many large commercial real estate borrowers walking away from their property, turning them over to the lender due to lack of occupancy.

    mailman in reply to CommoChief. | September 27, 2023 at 4:20 am

    “Unfortunately this is also another thing Trump did to expose himself to overzealous, partisan prosecutors.”

    There are a few things wrong with this statement. If these practices had been going on since 2011 then this predates Democrat hatred for him.

    Secondly, this statement is like blaming women for being sexually assaulted since they made themselves a target of molestation by merely existing.

      CommoChief in reply to mailman. | September 27, 2023 at 7:34 am

      No that’s a false equivalence. What I mean by ‘another thing Trump did to expose himself to overzealous, partisan prosecutors’ is very simple; don’t create opportunities for easy scores by your political opposition. Trump has a history of edging up to and over the ‘line’ on a number of fronts; that’s part of his political appeal but it also has it’s downsides.

      Trump had to know when he chose to run in ’15 that the d/prog, united behind HRC, would do anything and everything they could to neat him. Further by coming into the GoP as the ‘outsider’ candidate willing to be a bomb thrower within the party that the GoP old guard in power would also do whatever they could to defeat him.

      If y’all want to argue that Trump didn’t understand that the DC establishment would close ranks in many respects to try and beat back an outsider candidate running a populist(ish) campaign against the DC establishment/swamp/out of control agencies and the open borders agenda beloved by the leadership of both parties….then y’all are admitting Trump was incredibly naive about how DC works. I don’t believe it for one minute, Trump is too smart, too accomplished and too experienced to be that gullible.

      That said for context let’s return to the issue; Trump’s conduct. As the natural target of all the slings and arrows from a more/less united DC establishment against him he should have moderated his normal bull in a China shop actions. Cleaned up his financial records, gotten all the potential issues that an overzealous, partisan prosecution might seize upon to shank him with. IOW, become as pure as Caesar’s Wife or as close as.possible to that in order to mitigate potential partisan prosecution in advance.

      Again I like Trump’s antics. It’s amusing to me how many leftists lose their damn minds b/c of the things he says and does. That doesn’t lessen much less alter the fact that Trump brings some of these attacks by partisan prosecutors onto himself by continuing to make it easier for them to prosecute. In sum, don’t turn the ball over and give your opponent an easy score.

        Shorter CommoChief: “Even though Trump followed the law and normal practice, some arbitrary Democrat can take shots at him, so he’s at fault.”


          CommoChief in reply to SDN. | September 27, 2023 at 8:35 am

          No you are not correct. Trump didn’t follow the law in this particular matter, which is how the CT was able to make that ruling based upon on the documentary evidence which amply and very clearly demonstrated he didn’t provide accurate data.

          It’s still true that ‘everybody does it’. I would guess that a random sample of docs from other commercial property owners would show at least 75% do similar over valuations. However those property owners ain’t running for President and thus didn’t stick their head up like the proverbial nail to be hit with the hammer of an overzealous, partisan prosecution.

          Every time y’all only Trump folks make these sort of false claims it removes me of some helicopter Parent loudly proclaiming that ‘her perfect little angel of a child just wouldn’t do that’. That being whatever it is they were caught red handed doing. It undermines your personal credibility and your effectiveness as a Trump surrogate when refuse to admit faults in the man you support.

          iowan2 in reply to SDN. | September 27, 2023 at 9:55 pm

          No you are not correct. Trump didn’t follow the law in this particular matter,

          Didn’t follow what law. Who was damaged here?

          Azathoth in reply to SDN. | September 28, 2023 at 12:28 pm

          Trump DID follow the law.

          You CAN’T overvalue your assets to get better terms in this fashion because the specs of the assets in question ARE A MATTER OF PUBLIC RECORD.

          From the exact square footage of the apartment they’re claming Trump lied about to the annual revenue generated by Mar-a-Lago, it’s all public record.

          As is evidenced by the fact that thousands are posting the correct valuations that Trump gave as well as the distorted valuation the judge used.

          Because ALL the facts are easily accessible. Because they’re public.

          So you can only ‘lie’ about them to people who refuse to access all that information.

          And those people don’t include lending institutions.

          You have no idea what you’re talking about and are clinging to whatever you can to make you feel better about cheering on leftist authoritarianism.

        mailman in reply to CommoChief. | September 27, 2023 at 8:30 am

        The women MUST have known that dressing provocatively would make her a victim of rape. Same argument…both as dumb as each other.

          CommoChief in reply to mailman. | September 27, 2023 at 8:43 am

          No. False equivalence. Even if it were not as Dave Chappelle pointed out and I am paraphrasing ‘you may not be whore but if you dress in a whore’s uniform don’t be upset or surprised when people treat you as a whore’.

          Opposition research isn’t a new phenomenon. Politically motivated prosecutions are not new either. That’s the real world and your idealism is gonna get you hurt and leave you disappointed if you really believe your fellow man is unwilling to shank you for your wallet or shank your preferred candidate for political advantage.

          Expressed more simply don’t FA unless you are willing to FO.

          mailman in reply to mailman. | September 27, 2023 at 10:15 am

          Your argument is still a dumb argument but you know, you be you boo.

          CommoChief in reply to mailman. | September 27, 2023 at 11:18 am

          If you believe that a potential Presidential candidate who routine does slightly shady to borderline not legal actions as part of the business model of their chosen industry should be immune from prosecution just b/c then you are one naive MFer.

          The prudent thing to do as potential candidate is get your house in order so that preexisting opposition research and ideologically motivated prosecutors don’t have a flipping lay up. Make them WORK for their victory don’t just hand it to them.

          I hope you give the women in life far better advice about personal safety, prudent behavior, risk mitigation than you are offering up here with what seems to boil down to ‘criminals shouldn’t behave in a criminal way’ just as you seem to be upset that ideologically motivated prosecutors are GASP behaving in an ideologically way, conducting a politically partisan prosecution against a candidate they don’t like. Grow the hell up we don’t live in your version of utopia.

          ‘That’s the way it goes
          Life ain’t fair and the world is mean’
          Sturgill Simpson

        starride in reply to CommoChief. | September 27, 2023 at 2:34 pm

        So you think that the actions of the left and the never trumps are acceptable? You are equating some one calling you an ass hole, and then you destroying their entire lives and their families lives for it.

        At some point in time when the persons life you are trying to destroy has nothing left to loose, it becomes time for them to seek blood revenge..

        If I was him I would have said F#$% it a long time ago moved my assets to a non extradition country and put multi million dollar bounties on the heads of a lot of people.

          CommoChief in reply to starride. | September 27, 2023 at 6:53 pm

          Nope but you did when you tried to put words in my mouth by attempting to reframe my argument.

          Bottom line is the political establishment of both major parties would prefer a Trump candidacy be derailed. They will use everything they can to do it. Trump, and you, are smart enough to understand this fact.

          Yet you continue to act as if Trump’s aggressive style in business, these over valuations of property as an example shouldn’t be used as lever by his partisan opposition. It’s not as if these sort of politically motivated investigations began with Trump. He had ample opportunity to see how other prominent politicians were hounded by ideologically motivated investigations and prosecution and to take prudent steps to avoid giving these prosecutors lay ups. See Tom DeLay and Ted Stevens among many others who previously faced this sort of politically motivated prosecutorial harassment.

      Mauiobserver in reply to mailman. | September 27, 2023 at 2:28 pm

      One of the most accurate things Trump ever said was that they “totalitarians” weren’t really after him they were after you.

      Pro life demonstrators now face long prison terms for sitting in a hallway in violation of the FACE act which makes anti abortion protest a felony if determined so by the regime persecutor. J6 non violent protestors have been sentenced 18 years in prison, parents objecting to their daughter’s rape being ignored by authorities the regime were prosecuted by leftist DA’s.

      If wouldn’t matter what Trump did or didn’t do. Just like in the Russia collusion hoax or the Ukranian phone call when the regime is out to destroy you they will.

      Making excuses for the ruthless lawfare regime created by Obama and Trump is absurd. It doesn’t matter to the Obama/Biden regime whether you are pure as snow any more than it mattered to the Stasi, the Gestapo or the KGB. The idea is to crush an enemy and terrorize potential resistance.

The lender appoints the appraiser to value a property. Not the property owner. This looks easily over-turned on appeal.

    diver64 in reply to smooth. | September 27, 2023 at 4:46 am

    Not always. If you get a very lowball appraisal from a bank or mortgage lender you are most certainly correct to hire your own then contest the appraisal. In a wildly fluctuating real estate environment you are almost obligated to have one of your own. However, this is not the point. Trump hired one, got the valuation for the property and the bank looked it over and considering past business with Trump agreed and loaned. Trump paid it back. I see no problem here other than James shoe horning the State into somewhere it had no business. Every property valuation in NY is now suspect and all commercial real estate in NYC is effectively owned by the State as they apparently have say over the sale price or loans to build. If they don’t like it they can confiscate a fully paid for property at any time. Who in their right mind will operate in an environment like that if it’s at the whim of a crusading AG going after people she doesn’t like politically.

      robertthomason in reply to diver64. | September 27, 2023 at 10:32 am

      After the federal government cleaned up the S&L mess, federal regulators require the lender to have an independent appraisal for each loan. I’m not a lawyer, but it appears to me that he’s charged with a process crime because he filled out state forms using his opinion of value. Anyway, this will make a lot of money for lawyers. After all, everybody has to make a living.

      Azathoth in reply to diver64. | September 28, 2023 at 12:18 pm

      Yes always.

      Your example occurs when an applicant thinks the appraisal the lender had done is wrong.

      AFTER the lender has the asset appraised.

    Steven Brizel in reply to smooth. | September 27, 2023 at 9:11 am

    A conclusion by a Court that a property owner sets the value on a property , residential or commercial, as opposed to a lender, ignores legal realities and how real property has been sold in NY for centuries

As a non-lawyer, this looks to me to a problem between lenders and insurance companies. I fail to understand why the state is involved. Except to assure businesses they need to get out of New York.

I know this lawfare is exposed everyday but it is still truly shocking to see the judicial branch joining in the prosecutorial abuses. Both the AG and the judge should be removed from power and sanctioned.

Pursuit of this prosecution makes New York a more savage place. Violent crimes are not being prosecuted so that this political vendetta can be pursued.

This Attorney General clearly does not care about victims of violent deaths. This is a stain upon her character.

And of course, the fact there are no victims here further offends because it is a waste of money as well.

How can such a twisted person even exist?

    She’s fulfilling her campaign promise though. She promised to get Donald Trump in her campaign, and she’s doing it. Keeping campaign promises is good and honorable right? /s

    Since when did democrats care about anything but power and revenge?

    I can’t speak to this stranger’s character … but I can certainly question her grasp of the law. This can’t possibly be legal, even in a liberal state such as New York. In fact, I thought the whole basis of English common law, which has so heavily impacted our system, was protection of property. So, this grab at someone else’s property is a real perversion of the law. And yet, not a peep from all those obedient leftists. It’s okay if Trump loses his businesses, because this can’t possible affect me. Until they show up to confiscate my property. Which I guess they think they can do. I don’t recognize this country at all. (As an aside, I found the whole J6 was an insurrection hysteria totally ridiculous, too. Where were the gubs and Molotov cocktails??? What a bunch of malarkey.)

Does not even seem like news, the vendettas and excesses against Trump. He’s easy to support because his enemies are worse, far worse, and far less likely to obey the law, respect the rights of others, or protect the country and its people.

    The wielding of government, corporate and legal power to crush your political enemies. Destroy their enemies wealth and imprison them while supporting criminals and ruthless mobs.

    Where have we seen anything similar?

      Spain, ~1500

        Mauiobserver in reply to GWB. | September 27, 2023 at 2:13 pm

        The Inquisition is a good example. I was thinking of the modern totalitarians.

        The Nazi party which is a good example of the total wielding of government, media, corporate and legal power to crush their enemies. Of course the communist regimes under Lenin and Stalin, Mao, Castro and Pol Pot used brute power and terror to crush their enemies of just those that were inconvenient.

        pdulchinos in reply to GWB. | September 27, 2023 at 5:08 pm

        Communist China today – Jack Ma was brought to heel rather quickly when he thought his wealth would protect him.. all it took was a little re-education.. and poof he re-appeared…

      Cuba 1959

So the way I see this is that it’s not the borrowers responsibility to appraise the property that’s being used as collateral that would be the lenders priority to have an appraiser to do that in order to make sure that they’re getting enough collateral to make it worth making out the loan.

Government does its beat to overvalue property to collect more taxes. I had to fight the SOBs for years over this, in the end I cut property taxes by about half.

If this were to stand they could literally go after everyone in the state for the exact same thing.

Hilarious the judge thinks Mar-A-Lago, a 20 acre fully developed property, that brings in over $20 million a year is only worth $18 million dollars.

I expect this judge will be overturned.

Where is the clown from the Gibsons trial when you need him? He’d value the Trump stuff at $100K max.

The fact this was a CIVIL case pretty much tells you just how serious the criminal misconduct really was (it wasnt).

If they were so confident criminal misconduct HAD in fact taken place then this should have been a criminal case but instead we get a show trial civil hearing where evidence requirements are what ever the AG and the Judge decide.

Fucking kangaroo court.

I am no later, but suspect even rock solid argument In a Leftist Court is like taking to a brick wall.

An important element of defrauding the insurance company would be burning the place down. Otherwise he’s just opting for higher premiums.

Eric Trump says “Today I lost all faith in the NY Justice System.” For anyone named ‘Trump’, justice does not exist within the state of New York so long as Lawfare Mongers such as Letitia James and those of her ilk hold office. New Yorkers are going to have to STOP electing Democrats to positions of such extraordinary power. If Justice can be denied to Donald Trump or anyone affiliated or even distantly associated therewith then Justice, as the term is understood by ordinary Americans, ceases to exist for ALL denizens of The Empire State.

James, particularly, makes a mockery of the word.

The “fix” is totally in! Just what does a “fraud” law protect against if it doesn’t require intent to deceive or actual injury to a victim. I guess the short title for this bogus statute could be the “Get Trump Act.” The idea that a judge can declare the respondent in a suit guilty—with no chance to present a defense—is disgusting. In general tort of fraud requires (1) the intentional misrepresentation or concealment of an important fact upon which the victim is meant to rely, (2) and on which the victim in fact does rely, (3) to the harm of the victim. As a criminal charge requisite elements of fraud, (theft by false pretense) are generally (1) the intentional deception of a victim by false representation or pretense (2) the intent of persuading the victim to part with property and (3) with the victim parting with property in reliance on the representation or pretense and (4) the perpetrator intending to keep the property from the victim. How were Trump’s lenders deceived? They evaluated the properties on their own and went ahead with the financial deals. How were they injured? They were paid back in full! Finally, the idea that the state can substitute itself for “injured parties” that don’t exist and lost nothing, to collect a multi-million dollar payday for itself is simply looting under color of law. The filthy Democrat Party has destroyed the rule of law.

    I believe the issue of intent is not regarding injury caused by the fraud but whether the fraud itself was intentional rather than the result of error. I know proving intent was often a problem when developers suddenly left buyers and contractors with a “Sorry. No Money. No house. Bye.” They would swear on the good name of their bookie that they really did not mean to use that money on the 5th race it was supposed to come from another account. Bookkeeping hard. So the people who put out their hard earned $$ would be told they were part of a pay them back $50.00 at a time deal. Because intent could not be proven. It seems the NY law is that if fraud can be gleaned from evidence at hand intention is not in question.

      Azathoth in reply to JRaeL. | September 28, 2023 at 12:04 pm

      They are not saying that Trump defrauded buyers.

      They’re saying that Trump overvalued his assets to get better loan terms.

      But banks don’t just take applicants at their word. They check.

      There are industries devoted to that checking and record keeping.

      You can’t glean intent to commit fraud from this process because you can’t lie about the size of an acre –or what your tax and credit reports say.

Donald Trump replies (Truth Social) :
I have a Deranged, Trump Hating Judge, who RAILROADED this FAKE CASE through a NYS Court at a speed never seen before, refusing to let it go to the Commercial Division, where it belongs, denying me everything, No Trial, No Jury. He made up this crazy “KILL TRUMP” decision, assigning insanely low values to properties, despite overwhelming evidence. AS AN EXAMPLE, HE VALUES THE MOST SPECTACULAR PROPERTY IN PALM BEACH, FLORIDA, MAR-A-LAGO, AT $18,000,000, WHEN IT IS WORTH POSSIBLY 100 TIMES THAT AMOUNT. His anger & hatred is politically motivated & unprecedented by those who watched! My actual Net Worth is MUCH GREATER than the number shown on the Financial Statements, a BIG SURPRISE to him & the Racist A.G., Letitia James, who campaigned for office on a get Trump Platform. While murderers roam the sidewalks of New York, my banks are happy, all loans are current, or paid off in full, sometimes early, with no defaults or problems of any kind. There is also an IRONCLAD DISCLAIMER CLAUSE!

“In a civil lawsuit brought by NY Attorney General Letitia James…”
Why would I, knowing what I know about this woman, bother to read the rest of this article.
Come on boy!

So who is the victim here? The lenders who not only got their money back but also with interest?

    pdulchinos in reply to mailman. | September 27, 2023 at 5:14 pm

    Or all the employees hired and tax revenue generated for the state of NY as a result from these transactions?

    Martin in reply to mailman. | September 28, 2023 at 1:10 pm

    How does the State have standing to bring this civil suit?
    They were not harmed. It appears no one was harmed by this theoretical crime.

I’d expect this garbage decision to be overturned on appeal if it ever comes before a non-corrupt, non-political judge (though it would have to get out of the New York courts to find one).

I don’t see how the AG’s authority to bring this action, her standing to bring it, or the judge’s assessment of the valuations being fraudulent could be upheld by a competent court.

only that false statements and representations were made
And the issue is that valuations of property are an entirely subjective affair, except within very broad ranges. And how is the judge an expert on this? Oy vey.

This is the first of the trials that Trump is facing and probably the same results he will get from each. Where that leaves him in the real world is yet to be understood. On the more serious trials coming up, what happens when he is convicted will determine what his options are in his campaign. He could be jailed in some instances and have very limited access to the public. From the choices of venues and judges, I don’t expect any good news for him.

Further irrefutable evidence the rule of law is dead in any jurisdiction controlled by the organized crime family masquerading as the Democratic Party and under severe attack in other jurisdictions. This is not only a judgment against Trump but one against all who have property and threaten or oppose the crime syndicate. Among other entities who have been threatened are the NRA and the VDARE foundation. I’m sure there are many others. It’s time to move all assets outside the jurisdiction of US courts.

Apparently none of the banks that relied on these allegedly falsified documents suffered a loss from their loans to the Trump Organization. Yes, I know about the bankruptcies, but those seemingly were separate entities. Letitia James campaigned for NY’s AG on the basis she would “get” Donald Trump. Is that how our legal system works now? If so, it reminds me of this well known saying:

Do you ‘Professor’, just not offer legal analysis, or are you gloating at the persecution of someone you dislike on display too much to do so?

Lending institutions do not rely on an applicants say in the valuation of their property when issuing loans. They check the records. Records that are publicly available.

This is not a secret.

This ‘order’ is worse than anything that’s gone before.

This is malicious.

To get a loan there are credit checks, tax record checks, assessments of and appraisal of collaterals.

Every single thing they’re claiming as ‘fraud’ is a matter of public record–from the value of assets to the size and condition of properties.

Why is it so difficult for you to note this?