If this is the best that the Hillary/Stein camp can muster to justify a recount, Donald Trump can rest very easy tonight . . . On Tucker Carlson’s new Fox News show this evening, guest host Ed Henry interviewed Ian Jackson of the Massachusetts Green-Rainbow Party regarding a possible recount of the presidential vote in Wisconsin.

Green Party candidate Jill Stein campaign has in recent days raised millions of dollars to fund such an effort. The responses from Jackson—who seemed a nice guy in over his head—were a string of painful pauses and hesitations, concluding with an admission that the Stein campaign would have to consider refunding money to donors.

Readers are urged to view the video to see just how utterly tongue-tied was poor Mr. Jackson.

IAN JACKSON: People have been slightly concerned about the trail and as your last guest pointed out it’s very decentralized.

ED HENRY: Uh-huh. When you say “slightly concerned,” that doesn’t sound to me like there’s widespread allegations or more importantly evidence of some sort of fraud. So is this giving Jill Stein supporters some sort of false hope?

JACKSON: Well, I [pause] there’s we’re [pause] trying to find what the count is and [pause] I’m not sure it’s false hope. It’s trying to find the truth behind the numbers. There has been these allegations by computer scientists but as your last guest pointed out, it was using different systems and using that, being engineers, um, I’m a software engineer and we like our little [pause] models, but unless you actually count and check it, you don’t know whether it’s just a thought well, they used something different or if there’s something to it. And you mentioned your show is all about finding truth.

HENRY: Let’s find that truth. My next question is, our last guest, who you cited several times, Craig Gilbert, also said, accurately, that in 2000 and 2004 the margin was even closer in the presidential race and there was no recount. So what’s your case tonight?

JACKSON: [pause] Well, the case [pause] tonight, you can see that there that was [pause] a real contentious election [pause], and, based on that there are people that have expressed concerns. So, it’s best to find the truth and go through the process. And obviously people have been willing to put up millions of dollars [pause] to find out and count the ballots again.

HENRY: Okay, so final question: if you really want to get at the truth can we get at another truth which is that it appears that Jill Stein has raised about $5 million for a recount that may or may not happen for fraud that may or may not have happened. If there’s nothing found here and if there’s not even a recount will you pledge tonight that you and others in the Green Party believe that that money should be refunded, so this is not just money being raised on false hope?

JACKSON: Well, we’re [pause] ex-exploring that I’m only treasurer for the Green-Rainbow party. We’re certainly going — if it doesn’t get used, we’re certainly going to discuss with our donors what their desire is for that money.