Media Russia-mania feeding frenzy will not cause permanent damage unless there is a “there there”
Some thoughts on Russia, Russia, Russia
The last post I wrote about the Donald Trump Jr. meeting was last Thursday, Trump Jr. and the Russian lawyer: “there’s something very unusual about this whole thing”.
Subsequent to that post, NBC News broke the story that there were additional people at the meeting than had been disclosed previously. Nonetheless, I think my Newsmax interview that was the subject of the post has held up pretty well:
“Something just doesn’t seem right here, and I think it’s worth asking a lot of questions because this doesn’t just happen.
Somebody with her connections doesn’t just happen to show up at the doorstep of the campaign of one of the two major parties, who just secured enough delegates to win the nomination. It’s just very, very strange, and given her background and given what DOJ knew about her, something’s not adding up here.”
Here are some thoughts, in no particular order:
1. Donald Jr. pulled a Comey. Recall that in multiple appearances before Congress Comey failed to disclose his claim that President Trump allegedly asked Comey to end the Flynn investigation. Of course, no one asked him that question straight up. Yet you would have expected him to volunteer the information, as I wrote in Here’s how James Comey can wiggle out of his May 3 testimony. So too, I don’t think Donald Jr. was asked straight up to list all the people who were at the meeting when he did his sole interview with Sean Hannity. Yet you would have expected Donald Jr. to volunteer the head count, either in the interview or public statements. Comey’s failure to volunteer information has been almost entirely excused by the media, but Donald Jr’s is taken as proof of deception.
2. More Shoes Will Drop. I have no idea what they will be. Or if they will be damaging. I don’t think there has been any permanent damage so far from the latest Donald Jr. revelations. That could change, but it will have to be substantive, not procedural.
3. Most of the Public Posturing is Phony. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the posturing over interaction with Russians is almost entirely phony:
Don’t think for a second the media or other Trump opponents actually care about the substance of Trump Jr.’s emails or meeting. If they actually cared about collusion with foreign governments, the January 2017 Politico report on actual collusion between Clinton allies and the Ukrainians would not have gone down the media memory hole.
4. Don’t Trust The Media Which is Competing for Headlines. A good example of why not to trust the media on this story is the NBC scoop on the additional person at the meeting (which it turns out was 2-3 extra people). The NBC News headline was Russian Lawyer Brought Ex-Soviet Counter Intelligence Officer to Trump Team Meeting, with these introductory paragaraphs:
The Russian lawyer who met with the Trump team after a promise of compromising material on Hillary Clinton was accompanied by a Russian-American lobbyist — a former Soviet counter intelligence officer who is suspected by some U.S. officials of having ongoing ties to Russian intelligence, NBC News has learned.
NBC News is not naming the lobbyist, who denies any current ties to Russian spy agencies. He accompanied the lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, to the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower attended by Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort.
The Russian-born American lobbyist served in the Soviet military and emigrated to the U.S., where he holds dual citizenship.
The title and post were subsequently changed to Former Soviet Counterintelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer, with these introductory paragraphs:
The Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr. and others on the Trump team after a promise of compromising material on Hillary Clinton was accompanied by a Russian-American lobbyist — a former Soviet counterintelligence officer who is suspected by some U.S. officials of having ongoing ties to Russian intelligence, NBC News has learned.
The lobbyist, first identified by the Associated Press as Rinat Akhmetshin, denies any current ties to Russian spy agencies. He accompanied the lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, to the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower attended by Donald Trump Jr.; Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law; and Paul Manafort, former chairman of the Trump campaign.
Born in Russia, Akhmetshin served in the Soviet military and emigrated to the U.S., where he holds dual citizenship. He did not respond to NBC News requests for comment Friday, but he told the AP the meeting was not substantive. “I never thought this would be such a big deal, to be honest,” he told the AP.
Notice how critical “former counterintelligence officer” was to the headline, but there was precious little in the body of the articles about that. It turns out that Akhmetshin asserts that he never was a counter-intelligence officer, he merely served as a draftee in a unit that had some counter-intelligence responsibilities, as AP reported:
Akhmetshin has been reported to have ties to Russian intelligence, a characterization he dismisses as a “smear campaign.” He’s a well-known Washington presence, lobbying for Russian interests trying to undermine the allegations of a lawyer who died in a Russian prison and is the namesake of a U.S. sanctions law.
Akhmetshin told the AP he served in the Soviet military in a unit that was part of counterintelligence but he was never formally trained as a spy.
None of that denial — whether it’s true or not — was in the original NBC News story. Did they not interview him? Did they not ask? Wouldn’t it be important to such a big scoop?
It also turns out that Akhmetshin had worked for the pro-Clinton, anti-Trump oppo research firm Fusion GPS:
And that is how NBC lies by omission. Akhmetshin’s links to pro-Russia lobbying efforts and to Fusion GPS are well documented. Fusion GPS’s links to pro-Russia lobbying efforts and to the international woman of mystery, Natalia Veselnitskaya, are also known. But the fact that two Fusion GPS operatives had a meeting with Trump, Jr., at a time when their employer/prime contractor/whatever was shopping the Trump dossier doesn’t even cause a tingle of curiosity.
Maybe, probably?, Akhmetshin is downplaying his past, but there was no doubt that NBC News went for the big bang in its headline and original story. The media is competing for screaming blockbuster headlines — don’t trust those headlines until all the facts come out.
5. The Media is The Opposition Party. A post over the weekend by Mark Finkelstein highlighted some insightful comments from a former Editor of the NY Observer which stated quite succinctly why the media can’t be trusted on Russia:
KEN KURSON: So the idea here is that the media has become the opposition to Trump. Just listening to the intro to this show, listening to Fareed’s show before it, it’s no longer that the Republican point of view holds forth, and the Democrats hold them accountable, and the media covers it. It’s that the president and the White House put forth their point of view, the media argues with them, and the Democrats have become totally irrelevant to that discussion. It’s a stunning thing to watch unfold during this presidency.
BRIAN STELTER: About the irrelevancy of the Democratic party?
KURSON: Totally! And the way the press has assigned itself the chore of undoing the results of this election, which they simply don’t accept. And I think the shame of it is, we no longer have even a two-party system, which many think is too few. We have a one-party system, and the media as the other party.
***
STELTER: Those are opinion columns! Those are opinion columns!
KURSON: No, they’re not just opinion columns. It’s reporters. And they audition for each other, and they audition for popularity.
6. Unparalyze The Administration. President Trump can overcome Russia-mania. It’s the economy, stupid. I’ve heard that somewhere before. The best response to the attempt to paralyze the administration is to not become paralyzed. Republicans need to get their act together and start passing economic reforms, packing the courts, and otherwise getting things done. That’s not happening.
7. Anti-Trump Pundits are Competing for Their 15 Minutes of Fame. The airtime given anti-Trump pundits is directly proportional to their willingness to make stupid and hyperbolic comments. And it’s the punditry glory years for anti-Trump Republicans, like Richard Painter, Stop taking Richard Painter seriously given history of outlandish statements and treason accusations:
Richard Painter is the Vice Chair of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), a left-wing activist group.
In December 2016, Painter replaced in the position of Vice Chair … wait for it … David Brock. Yes, that David Brock, the consummate Democratic oppo-research attack dog, leader of Media Matters, and now American Bridge. That David Brock was Vice Chair of CREW tells you everything you need to know about the group.
But you will almost never hear this part of Painter’s resume when he appears on TV, which he does quite often. You might hear that he’s a professor at U. Minnesota Law School. But most of all, you will hear that he is a former George W. Bush administration Chief Ethics Lawyer (2005-2007).
But in the age of Trump, his entree to TV commentary has been relentless Trump bashing — there is nothing the media loves more than someone who served in an Republican administration but now attacks Trump.
And Painter’s main TV role is to attack Trump in outlandish terms. I never heard of Painter — and I bet you never did either — until he started fulfilling the TV role of attacking Trump.
7. This Will Turn On Whether There is a There There. What we’ve seen so far are procedural theatrics and innuendo. That will not sink the Trump administration. As Jason Willick notes at the American Interest, Russia Scandal Looks Different Outside of Washington:
If you live in Washington and get your news from Twitter, you will have noticed a major shift after the Trump Jr. revelations….Elite conservative opinion has shifted markedly….
And yet despite this unmistakable, watershed shift, Republican voters appear to be (mostly) unmoved. This is a reminder of how marginal D.C. media is when it comes to shaping the opinion of the mass of actual conservatives in the heartland—a lesson learned during the primary election, but worth keeping in mind during this tumultuous time as well. The D.C. media environment is a simply a different world from what most conservative voters are exposed to. As long as the GOP controls both houses of Congress, it’s possible for a scandal to play out 24/7 for months on virtually all mainstream media platforms without it actually moving the needle politically.
Only if there is something significantly worse than being willing to take a meeting will this cause serious, long-lasting political damage.
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Comments
There doesn’t have to be a there, there.
This is strictly a painting program for the Left, where they apply enough layers of lies to make them stick by pure repetition. You have to remember, the Left has thrown away the 20-40% of Americans who are conservative or at least mostly so. They don’t *care* about those people, they don’t care that their lies are transparent, they don’t care that they can’t prove a single accusation.
They. Don’t. Care.
They *do* care when anybody speaks up and opposes their leftward progress. At that point, whoever stuck their head up has to be mowed down with the biggest lawnmower the Left can find, making an example to cow the rest of the conservatives.
Remember how many voters still believe that Palin said “I can see Russia from my house” That was paint, which the Left painted all over Palin. It was a transparent lie, but by repeating it over and over in multiple areas, from social media to talk shows, it stuck.
This *entire* Russia thing could come up totally blank for Trump, no prosecutions, no charges, no misuse detected at all, and the media and the Democrats (but I repeat myself) will keep harping and carping on it until every single liberal holds the mental image of Trump as a Putin stooge at the next election. They will *believe* it, regardless of any evidence. They will poison Trump’s public image (as if he needs any help there) until the cows come home because they *have* to.
He opposes them, and has done so *effectively* so every thought of theirs is directed to Trump delendo est!
Touche! Well put!
The MSM and Uni-Party (both Democrats and GOPe) have fallen on their own swords on the “Field of Megiddo” in a great defeat.
There are no great or small sins, but it’s interesting that the good book says God has one sin he despises more, above all other sins. That is the sin of “lying” lips……
Lying Lips couldn’t describe the MSM and the Globalist politicians any better.
“Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.” – Ecclesiastes Chapter 2, Verse 11
Now if only the “press” would report on Hillary’s and the DNC’s, and yes, even the MSM’s own collusion with the Russians, then they’d be reporting something real.
Better be careful they will come for you. This is why I left the Republian Party 30 years ago. Palin is a perfect example. Character assignation, not refuted by Republicans, until she was unelectable. Trump wil face the same end. Revolution or acceptance? I’m not sure Western Civilization has it in it anymore.
There are many things about all this that I do not understand.
First, it seems to me that people and governments try to influence other governments and voters in such governments, all the time.
Why are Russian attempts to influence our election suddenly something horrible, especially if, according to Comey et al. they were failures.
Second, who cares about meetings which all parties at it considered it an annoying waste of time?
Third, the independent counsel is investigating something, yet I still have no idea what crime he is investigating. I presume he is investigating a crime, since that is what government investigators are supposed to do. If so, what is that crime?
If he is not investigating a crime, what is he doing?
Is it appropriate for a government investigator to investigate a person, or a group of people in search of crime that can be pinned on them? It has been said that this was done to Al Capone, but it seems to me to be blatantly unconstitutional even for Al Capone.
Can you clarify these matters?
Sure.
All governments seek to influence the politics in other nations. During the Obama administrations, this country sought to influence a number of elections, of friends and foes alike. President Obama personally intervened in the elections of Kenya, Israel and Canada, in favor of a particular candidate, as well as the Brexit question. This does not even begin to touch how much money was spent to influence other political questioned abroad.
The SUSPECTED Russian attempts to interfere in our latest national election [remember there is no firm evidence that the government of Russia was directly involved in any actions so far revealed]are only “important” to those who are using the BIG LIE to undermine the Trump adminsitration and to save face.
No one care about any of these meetings, except to use them to attempt to obscure the fact that there is no significant Russian affect on our elections.
The special council is not investigating ANY suspected violation of law, based upon any valid evidence. This does not mean that an investigation can not occur. But, without some verifiable evidence that some violation of law has occurred, the SC has no authority to issue binding subpoenas or warrants. In other words, without a verifiable suspicion that a criminal act has occurred, the SC can not force any action or testimony. The Congress is a different matter, as it has broader powers to investigate actions circumstances which directly impinge upon its oversight or legislative functions [drafting laws]. But, Congressmen do not have total immunity for responsibility for unwarranted harm caused by their actions.
Al Capone is an interesting case. While investigating Capone’s involvement in the illegal importation and dispensing of alcoholic beverages, evidence [financial records] were uncovered linking Capone to a great deal of untaxed income. While the feds could not gain enough evidence to directly link Capone with the liquor industry, it produced sufficient evidence to get him indicted and convicted of tax evasion.
This is all designed to attack and remove a sitting President from office through innuendo and character assassination.
Clarification: it’s b.s.
Time to leave these hacks in the dust.
The GOPe is in the same bad shape as mcconnell’s face.
daniel: Why are Russian attempts to influence our election suddenly something horrible, especially if, according to Comey et al. they were failures.
Because Russia has a history of using cyber-warfare and military aggression against other countries. In particular, Russia is developing cyber-warfare to a new level, testing it against Ukraine, and other new, fragile democracies. They have also wielded such attacks against U.S. allies in western Europe, and now the U.S.
If the U.S. fails to confront the issue of Russian aggression, then the U.S. and its allies will be left vulnerable to continued attack, possibly even one which is debilitating. Meanwhile, actions by the Trump Administration have left the democratic alliance leaderless.
daniel: the independent counsel is investigating something, yet I still have no idea what crime he is investigating.
There was a hack and release of emails from the DNC, an attempt to interfere in the U.S. election. There is strong evidence that Russian agents were the perpetrators. Because of this, and patterns of Russian cyber-attacks against other countries (they actually cut the electrical power in Kiev), any contacts between Russian agents and U.S. citizens are problematic, and may represent attempts to use U.S. citizens, wittingly or unwittingly.
Well golly, I imagine they’ll be digging deeply into the Podesta / Russia connections then, huh?
I believe it was the Soviet Union that did the horrible things you mention. Putin is a boy scout compared to Stalin, and yet we were his ally and friend, and gave Eastern Europe to him.
That the Russians leaked Podesta emails, if true, does not represent a crime as far as I can see. I think it is a tort.
Stealing the emails is a crime, I suppose. Is the special counsel investigating to see if the Trumps stole the emails?
Is there enough evidence for this to convene a grand jury? Is there any evidence at all for it?
daniel: That the Russians leaked Podesta emails, if true, does not represent a crime as far as I can see. I think it is a tort.
Hacking is a crime, and the leaks, intended to interfere in the U.S. election, were a violation of sovereignty.
daniel: Is the special counsel investigating to see if the Trumps stole the emails?
There is no evidence Trump stole the emails. The question is whether they colluded wittingly or unwittingly with the perpetrators.
Trump: “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30000 emails that are missing.”
Sorry, but the media Russia feeding frenzy is not-so-slowly eroding the institutions of this country. This includes all of the social/political institutions. Let’s start with the government.
President Trump, in spite of the Establishment members of his administration as well as the amateurs [well-meaning and otherwise,] has been chugging right along keeping as many promises as he can. So far he has kept virtually every promise that he made, which he can deliver unilaterally. This satisfies his base of 49+% of the voters who elected him to do just that. The Congress, on the other hand, is circling the drain. The Republicans promised for 8 years to make the changes that the President was elected to make. But, they now find themselves in the horrendous position of having to deliver on those promises. And, that is something that they can not do, without losing their positions and drawing the ire of their Progressive, Globalist masters. By stymieing the President’s agenda, they are placing themselves in the position of losing the voters and may lose their positions in 2018. They have proven themselves to be nothing more than lairs and now are perceived to be less trustworthy than attorneys or used car salesmen. The Democrats who should have had everything they could ever wish for, by sitting tight and keeping their mouths shut, decided to to race around the barnyard like demented chickens squawking insane lies. Any citizen with two working brain cells has been shown, painfully, that these people are either demented or hold the intelligence of the average American in such low esteem as to be totally untrustworthy, at best, or dangerous, at worst. One does not let a lunatic drive the bus. There is a very good chance that politics in general, and national politics in particular, will never be the same again. On to the media.
The news media spent decades, following WWII, trying to convince the American people, and the rest of the world, that it was honest and objective. Though this was simply a big lie, people were want to give the established media the benefit of the doubt. However, since Donald Trump became a candidate for President and most especially since his inauguration, the media has proven itself to be a propaganda machine lacking all objectivity and veracity. Incredibly, the perception of news media honesty has fallen so low that the members of that profession now rank even below politicians. No one believes them anymore. It may well be that the news media will never recover from this. It has led to the faceless purveyors of information on the internet being as highly regarded as known msm reporters and institutions, if not more highly regarded. Now, the social aspects of all of this.
Society is splintering. The governments of this country are no longer responsive to the wants, needs and desires of the majority. The various minorities have been elevated from merely protected status to dominance over the majority. It has now reached the point where the majority has sent a clear message that it will no longer be discriminated against. It did this through the non-violent, legal mechanism of the ballot box. Various minority organizations, movements and groups have set out to deny the majority their desire for simple equality, often through the use of violence. The orchestrated assault on law enforcement is rendering that force impotent to stabilize society. This is rapidly placing the majority in the position of having to personally use force to defend themselves and their interests. And, if widespread majority violence occurs, it will destroy this nation.
No, all of this BS has already changed the face of our nation and society. And, if it does not stop immediately, it is liable to destroy this nation. The political situation, in the government, with the exception of the office of the President, the situation where all “news” reporting is now suspect and the active attacks on the majority in this country has already caused significant damage, some of which is permanent. The type, extent and permanence of the changes are not yet clear. But, they are there and some are not going to go away.
Once again, the real screw ups in Washington are the Congressional Republicans.
All of this phony Russian stuff sucking all of the media oxygen out of the room, and this gang of losers can’t get anything done. They have a free pass to do anything. They could build the wall, repeal Obamacare, defund planned parenthood, approve extremist judges, or even ban abortion right now. Dump all of your dirt now when nobody’s paying attention.
The media thinks they’ve cornered Nixon and nothing else matters. John McCain could have an operation to remove a golf ball sized tumor in his brain and It would barely make the end of the news.
The constant failures of the Republicans are so dissapointing.
Wondering about gop screwups is like wondering if obama was incompetent or a traitor. It turns out he is both.
Same for the gop.
Starve the gop out of existence
Never fear!
Tons and tons of Trump supporters have ventured “there” and report there is not only no “there, there” but those media cranks aren’t even half here.
Interesting side note to this.
The Lyin’ MSM and Uni-Party Trolls have made up hundreds, if not thousands by now, of these false memes. Ever since Trump announced he was running back in the summer of 2015…….
How’s that non-stop psychopath lyin’ working out for you MSM?
I think you are wrong.
The media frenzy crippled Bush. He chose to ignore it, and left supporters like us to be slaughtered on the field of public opinion. We were effectively abandoned, and it destroyed our morale.
So we have up trying to defend him. And then his poll numbers sank, and then the jackals took him down.
The media is the enemy, and they need to be fought. This is not a Free Press, it’s a Marxist Propaganda front.
Bravo!!!!!!!
I want a Resistance against the media. I want their power cut. I want their tires flattened. I want their camera lenses spray painted. I want their LIVE reporters shoved into the lake. I want their on the scene interviews interrupted with blowhorns. I want protesters to show up at their homes and rattle the Windows.
Fen: I want a Resistance against the media. I want their power cut. I want their tires flattened. I want their camera lenses spray painted. I want their LIVE reporters shoved into the lake. I want their on the scene interviews interrupted with blowhorns. I want protesters to show up at their homes and rattle the Windows.
Calling for violence against the press is an assault against the First Amendment.
The Dems can hope to get something useful out of it even if there’s no “there” there. They can hope for a Scooter Libby moment. If enough investigators run around in enough circles, maybe they can trip somebody up. That’s likely what they’re hoping for here. They’re a loooonnngg way from touching the President, but they may be able to trip up Junior. Not a big prize, but they have to snap up what they can—an old tactic, much like the attempt to attack the Federalists via the impeachment of Justice Samuel Chase. They wanted to go after John Marshall, but even then he was something of a judicial demiurge and totally untouchable. So they thought they’d settle for a lesser mortal.
Maybe the MSM can trip up Ivanka’s maid’s goldfish……..
Junior is familiar with the corporate world, so any naivety, real or perceived, can be understood. The stakes are much higher, and the wolves more ravenous, in global politics. Trump is a natural statesman and his son will quickly learn to identify and respond to wolves hiding in plain site and behind the scenes, the activists and the Planners.
The dems will try to scooter someone to get some form of result but what they (dems) do not realize is that President Trump will Pardon that person faster than the ink will dry on the NYT
The MSM does not know how to deal with President Trump. Every old playbook response has failed them. The only thing trending down are their skewed polls.
Maybe now that Mitch has failed in his ObamaCare 2.0 law, he will get on board with the leader of his party and make some meaningful changes. THat is why all the smoke is being fanned. If the GOP worked as fast as the Dims do, America would already have been made great again.
Better – how about a softball scrimmage. CNN/MSNBC on one side and NYTs/WaPo on the other.
“Curiousor and Curiousor – Natalia Veselnitskaya Pictured With Obama Officals in DC on June 14th, 2016…”
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/07/11/curiousor-and-curiousor-natalia-veselnitskaya-pictured-with-obama-officals-in-dc-on-june-14th-2016/
Some of our elected officials at all levels of state and federal government have lost respect for the very institutions they serve. No sooner than the ink was dry on the ballots and it was obvious Hillary was headed for defeat and Trump would handily win in the electoral college, out came the signs ‘not my president.’ Sworn to protect and defend the Constitution, they trashed it declaring Hillary the winner by popular vote, which is otherwise immaterial. If our elected officials show no respect for the very document that establishes our system of self-governance, why should the people they purportedly serve.
Mac45 suggests various minorities have been elevated from merely protected status to dominance over the majority; and thatIt has now reached the point where the majority has sent a clear message that it will no longer be discriminated against.
The courts have interpreted the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to create a super class of equal protection were some are more equal than others. This super-equality was originally intended to redress years of historical oppression and discrimination against an identified class of minority, notably African-American,
What happens when the minority becomes the majority. Demographic trends in the US suggest that the nation as a whole will become majority Latino, which are a recognized suoer-equal class. The Los Angeles Times already published an article that Latinos are now the majority in California outnumbering the white non-Latino population.
This begs the question. Will this Latino majority respect this countries institutions and legal precedents regarding equal protection for minorities, or will they rule by tyranny of the majority over the white non-Latino population.
Of the Latinos I personally know all are legal, medical or technology professionals, entrepreneurs, or small business owners. They are also highly educated.I have no doubt of their respect for our institutions. However listening to some of the activist and radical politicians of Los Angeles and San Francisco/Oakland I have my sincere doubts that our system of constitutional self-governance, laws and judicial precedent is to be interpreted over and over until it is rendered extinct.
Fen,
The mistake Bush made was to not push back against the media. Trump isn’t making that mistake and as Corporal Jones is fine of saying “they don’t like it up them!”.
Make no mistake about it, there is no there there! If there was we would have heard about it over 6 months ago!
The failed hysteria pushed by the dems and their media operatives have devolved from:
-Russia “hacked’ the election
to
-Russia ‘interfered’ with the election.
to
-Russia ‘influenced’ the election.
to
-Trump ‘colluded’ with Russia.
to
-Trump, as one TV host puts it.. “game to collude with the Russians.”
to
-Trump Jr knows a Russian chick.
There’s no question that the Russians interfered with the election.
There’s an excellent case that they influenced the election to at least some degree.
Conversely, the T-rump camp has moved from lie to lie in this matter. Why?
Though we have seen NO evidence that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 elections, it is probable that they tried to do so. We have also seen NO evidence that any actions of any outside parties significantly changed the contest.
However, foreign interference in our elections, especially for President, have occurred literally since the birth of this nation. In just the last 20 years, we have seen Chinese influence in 1996, 2000 and 2008. In 2008 and 2012, “anonymous” foreign monetary support was used to influence the elections of Barack Obama. There was the allegation of Saudi money in the 2000 and 2004 campaigns. Then we have the donations from foreign sources funneled through foreign owned US corporate entities.
This happens continually. The point is, that all these incidents were largely ignored, after the initial reporting. But, this election cycle, the norm has become abnormal. It is a combination of a campaign to undermine and replace a sitting President as well as a means for the Democrat Party to save face by blaming the loss of their candidate, HRC, on an outside entity. That NO evidence has been put forth, to support the accusations being made, is staggering.
Try to focus, nimrod.
Did or did not T-rump acknowledge Russian interference in this past election? Yes or no.
Did or did not T-rump (rightly) condemn Barracula’s failure to prevent said interference? Yes or no, please.
Have I said anything about “significantly changed the contest”? I can answer that for you; FLUCK no.
Now, answer the flucking questions, or STFU.
Trump did indeed say that Russia had attempted to interfere in our elections. But, as with everyone else making that claim, he presented NO EVIDENCE to support that. It was a move to diffuse the attacks upon him.
Trump did NOT condemn Obama’s failure to prevent such interference. The condemnation was qualified. The condemnation came based upon the claims of the Dems that Obama KNEW about Russian interference, prior to the election, and did nothing about it.
You have to actually read between the lines on these news stories. Here are the facts.
1)No one has presented any clear and compelling evidence that the Russia government took any action to influence the 2016 Presidential election.
2)No one has presented ANY evidence that any outside agency directly influenced the election procedures in that election.
3)I gave you several historical instances where foreign election influence was either known [and proven] and strongly suspected. And, in none of those instances was anything significant ever done nor was there a strident cry to discipline the politicos involved or to suggest that they had committed treason.
As you seemed to be unable to grasp my point in the previous post, it was that foreign influence occurs in virtually every election in this country. And, until now, no one ha given a flying fluck. In fact, the US engages in the same thing on a continual basis. And no one climbs up on their ethical high horse and decries the practice. This is international relations and politics. People have to grow up and operate in an adult world. Did the Russian government attempt to influence the 2016 Presidential election? Probably. Did Mexico, Canada, China, the EU, the Ukraine, and most of the rest of the world? Probably. Where are cries of treason and for acts of reprisal for them? Crickets, baby. Crickets.
This is WONDERFUL and hi-larry-ous…
“Trump did indeed say that Russia had attempted to interfere in our elections. But, as with everyone else making that claim, he presented NO EVIDENCE to support that. It was a move to diffuse the attacks upon him.”
OR, T-rump is blowing crap out his ass, and is no different than the MSM.
“Trump did NOT condemn Obama’s failure to prevent such interference. The condemnation was qualified. The condemnation came based upon the claims of the Dems that Obama KNEW about Russian interference, prior to the election, and did nothing about it.”
Yah, no. Just plain bullshit. Weak, tepid bullshit. We KNOW Russia interfered. There’s no doubt. Prove they didn’t.
“You have to actually read between the lines on these news stories.”
Yes. To make your case, you have to see what is not there.
“1)No one has presented any clear and compelling evidence that the Russia government took any action to influence the 2016 Presidential election.”
Everybody has, and everybody knows this. Der Donald has so said. Where have you been?
“2)No one has presented ANY evidence that any outside agency directly influenced the election procedures in that election.”
Well, we know they tried. Prove they didn’t succeed. Oh, and WTF does “directly” mean, here, ace?
3)I gave you several historical instances where foreign election influence was either known [and proven] and strongly suspected. And, in none of those instances was anything significant ever done nor was there a strident cry to discipline the politicos involved or to suggest that they had committed treason.
Ad hominem tu quoque, plus a straw man. Plus outright lies. Teddy Kennedy was excoriated by the right for his conduct. But to you that doesn’t count, because it wasn’t the MSM. Pitiful.
“…it was that foreign influence occurs in virtually every election in this country. And, until now, no one ha given a flying fluck.”
Bullshit. Many of us raised a hue-and-cry over every instance you can name, and a few you’re not naming.
“In fact, the US engages in the same thing on a continual basis. And no one climbs up on their ethical high horse and decries the practice.”
You are a lying sack of excrement. MOST of us were incensed at Barracula’s conduct vis the Israeli election.
“People have to grow up and operate in an adult world.”
Best preach it to Der Donald, Jr., honey.
“Did the Russian government attempt to influence the 2016 Presidential election? Probably. Did Mexico, Canada, China, the EU, the Ukraine, and most of the rest of the world? Probably. Where are cries of treason and for acts of reprisal for them?”
Uh, nowhere, because…bullshit. Baby.
Hey, Chuckles, i answered your questions in a clear, concise and definitive manner. In response you produced a disjointed, rambling and factless monologue. But, I’ll address a few of your clearer statements.
You keep saying that everyone KNOWS that the Russian government attempted to interfere in our election. Exactly how do we all KNOW this? Where is the evidence? Show us a single verifiable piece of evidence that this is true. Oh, wait, you CAN’T. Directly means just what it says. There is no evidence that the part of the Russian government D-I-R-E-C-T-L-Y acted to influence the US election. Even if some hackers in Russia penetrated or attempted to penetrate US systems, no one has produced any verifiable evidence that these persons are part of or employed by the Russian government. If a hacker, living in his mother’s basement in Peoria, Il hacks into the FSB database, does that automatically make him an agent of the US?
About this: “3)I gave you several historical instances where foreign election influence was either known [and proven] and strongly suspected. And, in none of those instances was anything significant ever done nor was there a strident cry to discipline the politicos involved or to suggest that they had committed treason.
Ad hominem tu quoque, plus a straw man. Plus outright lies. Teddy Kennedy was excoriated by the right for his conduct. But to you that doesn’t count, because it wasn’t the MSM. Pitiful.”
What are you talking about? These are historical references and easily found in an internet search. And, of course I limited it to the MSM and government response, because that is who is driving the Trump/Russia narrative. Once again, the bottom line is that the same group of people who are driving the anti-Russian narrative today did not care about these other verified instances of foreign meddling in US elections.
““…it was that foreign influence occurs in virtually every election in this country. And, until now, no one ha given a flying fluck.”
Bullshit. Many of us raised a hue-and-cry over every instance you can name, and a few you’re not naming.”
So what? I hate to break this to you but, you are essentially nobody. You are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. You have little or no power, authority or the ability to influence people. You, like most of us, are little people. Those in a position to actually do something about all of these infractions did NOTHING but run a quick story and then ignore it.
““In fact, the US engages in the same thing on a continual basis. And no one climbs up on their ethical high horse and decries the practice.”
You are a lying sack of excrement. MOST of us were incensed at Barracula’s conduct vis the Israeli election.”
You really don’t get it, do you. YOU ARE UNIMPORTANT. No one care whether you are incensed. And, the people with the power [the media, the political class, and other influential people] stood mute while the President of the United States actually traveled to foreign allies and campaigned for foreign politicians. Yet those same people are incensed, incensed it tell you, that the Russian would attempt to influence OUR electio9ns. The influence by Canada, Mexico, China, Ukraine, et al, not so much.
So, present your verifiable evidence that the Russia government of its agents attempted to influence our election. Then present your verifiable evidence that Russia colluded with Trump to influence the election. We are all waiting for SOMEONE to present such verifiable evidence. Be the first. Start a trend.
“There is no question the Russians- ”
Bullshit. And these kinds of unsupported assertions are irresponsible and dishonest. And right of the Democrat playbook – “it’s obvious Rag is a paid Moby”. No need for any facts or evidence.
Even Der Donald has now acknowledged that the Russians interfered in the election. What kind of lies are you telling?
As to the “moby” allegation, you are a lying sack of excrement. I’ve been here years longer than you, pissant.
Define “interfered”
William A. Jacobson: Only if there is something significantly worse than being willing to take a meeting will this cause serious, long-lasting political damage.
There has already been substantial damage done to the Trump Administration, not only with regards to their legislative platform, but in terms of their credibility. Trump has been inconsistent on what legislative proposals he would support, often leaving his own supporters dangling. And the response to the Russia investigation has been to tell mistruths (fake news, never happened), then, long after the truth has been exposed, to admit just enough, smothering that with more mistruths (fake news, never happened).
That is not to say there is no hope; however, Trump has shown no ability to moderate his rhetoric or tactic, much less even a cursory knowledge of the policies involved.
Trumps inconsistency, with regard to legislation, is due to three things. The first is his lack of experience in the world of politics and national politics in particular. The second is that the fact that his advisors are working against each other and, in some cases, against Trump himself. The third is the political Establishment, including the media and Trump’s own party are actively working against him.
What Trump can do, unilaterally, he does. But, he does not have the resources to significantly influence the Congress because of his outsider status. The usual means of securing favorable legislation is to either buy or bribe legislators to secure their support for certain agenda items and bills. Because the entire political apparatus, which a President usually has at his disposal is unavailable to Trump, he has no way to secure short-term support from the current Congress. He has no more support from a Congress controlled by his own party than he would if it was controlled by the Democrats. His one remaining hope is that his base of Deplorables will primary out the current crop of Republicans and replace them with sympathetic replacements.
Mac45: Trumps inconsistency, with regard to legislation, is due to three things.
Not to mention his complete lack of understanding of policy, or the political pressures at work in Congress.
The MSM is also using false (i.e. ones that oversample DemocRats) polls to reduce PDT’s support, when in fact Trump voters support him more than ever and the DemocRat party and the media have suffered badly in truthful (and even false) polls.
I for one hope the media frenzy over Russian DOES cause lasting damage- to the media.
Zach, I’m sorry but that is just ridiculous. Hacking and releasing Podesta’s emails is in no way “interfering” with the US election. Anymore than Project Veritas doing an undercover sting or ABC releasing a 12 year old audio about grabbing pussy.
Let’s get some perspective here.
Fen: Hacking and releasing Podesta’s emails is in no way “interfering” with the US election. Anymore than Project Veritas doing an undercover sting or ABC releasing a 12 year old audio about grabbing pussy.
Project Veritas and ABC are both U.S. concerns.
interfere, to enter into or take a part in the concerns of others.
Rag: “as for the Moby allegation – ”
It was an example of the unsupported assertion you just committed. Thanks for accidentally agreeing that’s a dishonest tactic.
Where the hell did you go to law school? They are supposed to sharpen your analytical skills, deductive reasoning and critical thinking. You got ripped off.
One thing I’ve always known was how to spot a lying sack of excrement.
You’re one.
Der Donald made you a liar. He’ll do it again, you pitiful dupe.
Yawn. Wake me when you sober up.
Working now, little child. You lay down on your pallet, and have a good, long nappy-time while the adults do business. Yes, yes…hear the ocean in the shell? Poor, poor stupid thing…
The unraveling of Susan Rice is making obvious that in the summer of 2016, the Obama/hillary cabal of leftists were reveling in their euphoric “knowledge” that Hillary was going to crush the opposition in the election. That mindset convinced them that there was nothing … NOTHING they could not get away with… because Hillary would be the next President.
It is, therefore, reasonable to assume that the Trump surveillance may be just the tip of the iceberg. If you are convinced that there will be no accountability for anything you do because you will control the country, then there are no limits.
Given the recent North Korean assassination by ultra-deadly poisons that can make anyone appear to die of a heart attack, the mind boggles.
Just how thorough was the autopsy of Judge Antonin Scalia…?
(ANSWER: THERE WAS NONE.)
Then there is Seth Rich….
From the get go, This whole Russian thing is true. The only difference is that it concerns the ” Clinton Crime Family,” including obnoxious billy. The Demos are once again trying that old tactic, ” Repeat a Lie Often Enough Until People believe it.” The MsM & the Leftist, should be ashamed.